For those of you with parents in nursing homes etc., how do handle picking them up for the day and they are still continuing to be negative?

Your Dad is incontinent and can not clean up after himself. This is why he needs to be at his facility . They have church services at the facility I’m sure .
My father in law had my husband taking him out for haircuts , which we stopped and told him he had to get his haircut at his facility .
I don’t know why you would take this man out at all .
But even if he was decent to you , it’s too difficult and you don’t have to do it .
We tell my father in law that he has to be near his own large handicapped bathroom with chair arms on the toilet . Occasionally we take him out to the diner nearby quick and then right back to his room again. No all day outings . But there are two of us to lift the wheelchair in the trunk of the car .
You don’t have to do this and risk hurting yourself .
The facility transports FIL to doctor appts and back again , my husband meets him there.

Fairthful, reading your posts makes me think that you might usefully try the advice given to posters for when they first move their LO into care. Don’t visit for a week or two, so that the care place becomes their ‘new normal’. Otherwise they just save up their complaints to throw at you when you come in the next day, and don’t get to accept that what is, is what it is.

Perhaps say that you are going away for a holiday or a visit, ignore the medical meltdown, and see what he’s like when you next go in after a couple of weeks. Unfortunately you find that your phone won't work where you go. He will get quite OK care when you are gone. Even if you don’t ‘go away’ it will be a break for you, and a useful experiment with him. At the worst, something a bit meatier to complaint about to his mates at Church - if he ever goes again.

Worth a try? Love, Margaret

The incontinence would be it for me. Even if he wore depends. I would not be cleaning up a man either. Time to tell Dad you will not be taking him out anymore. If he needs to get to doctor visits, the facility can take him if they provide it or get the County Senior bus. If u feel like you need to be there, meet him at the office. If the facility has a doctor associated with them, Dad can use that doctor.

You need to worry about you. I have had to lift those wheelchairs at the age of 62. I had no problem if it was a van or SUV but the day a little old lady came alone and brought her little car, I said no more. I had a time getting that chair lifted into the trunk. At 5ft I had no leverage. You don't want to hurt yourself for a man who has no empathy. If he doesn't like it, oh well. I would do as little as possible for this man. May be nothing at all. He is safe and cared for. Your life trumps his.

Did you get to that movie and have a nice quiet day.?

He's in care now, Faithful. That's because he needs it, and needs to be someplace he can get that care. And I am glad you aren't caving, as you say. It's time now, with the incontinence added in, to just visit him. Stop trying to do it all. It isn't possible, it overwhelms you, and it allows him to think that it is the norm, these outings.
I hope the day went OK for you. I know how hard you are working at pulling back a bit. Keep it up. It will slowly become the norm for both of you.

FB, just for comparison's sake:

My mom was an easy person. We had a decent relationship. Once she needed nursing home level care (vascular Dementia, broken hip repair, incontinent), I NEVER took her out of the NH without medical transport and a hired aide, and then only for medical appointments.

You do not "owe" your father entertainment and outings. I used to wheel mom around the NH grounds in good weather, around the various wings of the home in the winter, read to her and caught her up on family and neighborhood news. I brought her a sweet (usually chocolate) treat and good coffee.

That was the norm for visits from my brothers, sisters in law and me.

You have expectations that are unrealistic, for dad, you and his circumstances.

At some point YOU decide that it is more than you can handle.
It is possible that taking him out of his "element", the place where he is comfortable he gets stressed.
So your holiday with dad is celebrated when you chose to.
If you want to celebrate the day of. you go a bit early and have a VISIT. Just make it like any other day.
Adding a lot of other people is just more confusing. It is a lot to process and if a person with dementia is trying to "cover up" or "showtime" the more people, the more time that they have to "act" results in more stress and that leads to anger, outbursts, and sometimes violence. (not intended but out of frustration)
If you want to celebrate the day before or the day after that is fine as well.
One of the things that hit me when I was caring for my Husband is that there are NO holidays anymore. A day, is a day, is a day. I got up at the same time did the same routine day after day after day. He had no clue that it was a "different" day.

So bottom line is there is no more "normal" give up the notion of the Hallmark Holiday and the Hallmark Family

It depends when you choose you have had enough. Besides negativity it could be incontinence while travelling, or frequent falls when the person weighs more than you and you are alone.
For me, it was no more Christmases when I had to pick up, cook, and host. From then on, it was visiting only. Again, you choose when to stop.

Glad I gave you the gift of laughter! You needed it.
Every time you get upset or hurt, remember what I said and LAUGH.

FB, it seems to me that you are clinging to some fantasy of a "normal" family. One with loving, uncomplicated family members who love and respect each other

That's not the hand you've been dealt.

Your father has been abusive to his womenfolk your whole life. No behavior change of YOURS is going to alter that reality.

It would be lovely if the church folk saw your dad for who and what he is (and maybe some do) but their opinion isn't worth a hill of beans, is it?

Whose opinion and respect means something to you?

Yours? God's? Your friends'?

Your mother allowed him to abuse her, you are going down the same rabbit hole, why? In order to say "He's not that bad"? "If I do everything he wants he will stop verbally abusing me"? Nope doesn't work that way.

It is you who has to change, he will not, he is an abuser of women, he feels that they are his servants and he can treat them anyway he wants to.

That has to stop and you are the one who has to stand up to him.

He has everything he needs, stop condescending to him, no reason to bring him food he has plenty where he is living.

Your trying to be a good daughter, why? Your profile says this man was abusive to Mom and you and your relationship has always been strained. He was never a kind loving father to you so why should you try and be a loving daughter. You know that Honor thing goes both ways. Stop taking his abuse. He is now safe in his facility. He just needs to eat what they provide. I am sure the facility has holiday celebrations. They probably had entertainment. Some Church probably comes in and has services. I would do nothing for him. What goes around comes around. This is his come around. He does not deserve a "good" daughter.

I would have a nice sit down with him after the holiday and tell him what he does to you is abuse and he has done it to u and Mom since you can remember. You have tried to be a "good" daughter but seems its not being appreciated because he treats you like a dog and your not putting up with it anymore. You are taking a vacation from him. He is safe where he is. He has 3 meals a day and staff to help him. Activities to join into. Its all up to him. He can continue to be a miserable negative man and die lonely or appreciate what he has and a daughter who is willing to help his miserable a**.

Take that small meal to him and tell him you will not be picking him up. You are going to spend a quiet Christmas at home. You do not need his negativity and abuse on Christ's birthday. Say Merry Christmas and walk out. He needs to learn, even at this age, that he can't treat people the way he does. Your first post was in August. I think u have done enough. My Dad was a Curmudgeon but he knew the word Thank you.

If you can't do the "in one ear out the other" plan, and if you can't just enjoy his antics by saying to yourself, "well it looks like this is how he enjoys himself" as he chats away to the church folk - some people can and some can't - don't do what distresses you. Life is harder when we try to please or change our parents. Hope you have a great day!

If the church members are sympathetic enough to your poor neglected dad, maybe they'll take it upon themselves to go and get him and his wheelchair and help him get ready and then take him to church and back to the NH.

If you weren't doing it, maybe he'd ask them. If you weren't always filling in the gaps in his life, he might adjust to life in the NH and join in more.

It's sad for me to know you feel that you have to scramble around making him happy. I feel no sympathy for him! I'd leave him in the NH to "stew in his own juice," as my grandmother used to say.

I'm sorry for what you're going through and hope you will back off and let things be. You matter too.

Don't ruin your holidays because of him. No more day passes. The facility has holidays events that he can enjoy.

If he is nasty when you visit him, Leave, tell him why you are leaving and what your NEW boundaries are, what you will accept and what you won't, if he crosses them, that becomes his problem not yours.

Stand up for yourself, only you can stop the verbal abuse, the ball is in your court.

Stop jumping thru hoops to try and please an angry, miserable man that chooses to treat you like garbage. You deserve so much better. I sincerely hope you stick to your guns when you say, "If he does this tomorrow, I will tell him that I'm taking him back" to the SNF. There is only one way to treat a bully.....by standing up for YOURSELF and doing what you say you'll do. He'll be shocked, of course, but he'll finally learn you mean business. We teach people how to treat us. Teach HIM how NOT to treat YOU!

Merry Christmas Eve FB! 😍

OP, stay on the site for longer, and see the advice for so many people with similar problems. Your profile says that he pulls the ‘medical emergency’ trick every time you try to go away for a break. Tells everyone at Church that you never visit and he is abandoned, and puts you down whenever you actually do things for him.

When you really see how common all these things are, it could help you to work out how to handle it (and save your sanity). Your father is nothing special in bad behavior!

Start visiting him in the facility and avoid bringing him home to ruin your holidays. Some people can shrug off the bad behaviors parents dish out and others have a hard time regrouping after one of these tongue lashings. My dad didn't have dementia but I got tired of going to his home on holidays with the new stepfamily where he compared me to his stepdaughters. He acted like these were the best daughters ever. It got to the point that visits were down to twice a year or maybe three or four times if I was feeling generous. These visits were done on a quarterly basis. A month before he died, I had him over to my apartment because his wife and stepdaughter had appointments. He told the truth for a change and said that he was living in a house full of nuts. I couldn't say anything because these are the people he left his family for and no one knew where he was except for his second bio son who went to visit.

I'm one for saying do what makes you comfortable. There is no need to bring up or even remind a parent that if they don't treat you with respect, you won't be picking them up. All they will do is try to twist it around on you.

Bring some peace in your life and stop catering to someone whose brain is broken and they will not remember what you said anyway.

Wishing you and your family a very peaceful holiday.

I'd come down with the flu.

As unpleasant as it is, you are doing something nice for him. Ignore his bad mouthing. Who cares what he says or if anyone believes him. You know what is true. This is merely the ranting of an old curmudgeon at the end of his life.

If he is in a NH, it might just well be his last Christmas. Try to remember that. I know for me I hope the status quo of having both my 95 yo mother and father around next Christmas changes. They are in a NH together right now. Very stressful dealing with it all.

If this years festivities turn out really miserable, leave him in the NH next Christmas and set aside a a day to celebrate with him there. Like I said who knows if you will still be at this in a year.

Hope you have a Merry Christmas despite this.

We stopped taking MIL out for anything besides medical. The MC facility had wonderful holiday parties so holidays were instead spent with MIL in the facility. Any time she left MC, MIL believed she was getting "sprung from her kidnappers". Visiting her instead of trying to take her out was the best way to keep her calm. Her church friends were the biggest flying monkeys when it came to trying to take her out and it was by having GS that kept them from succeeding. DH had a standing 'no leave' policy without GS's prior permission.

You deserve peace too. Celebrate with him there instead of taking him out with you.

I am beginning to think that almost no one speaks "honestly" to a person.
I am uncertain, given all the woes this man has for you, why you would attempt to spend this time with him.
But I support your choices, as an adult.
I must assume when you have had enough you will step enabling his bad behavior by letting it rule your life and reactions.

I am hoping you have a happy holiday, Faithful. I have good feeling about your deciding for yourself whether to include your Dad in your holiday joy. You have waited for a long time for your dad to be "someone else". It looks like that won't happen. He's the same guy you already know so well.

Hi Faithful! Maybe you can switch it up and just go to visit him at the facility for the future holidays? That way he cannot gather a captive audience at church and make a speech. Bring church to him. And definitely set and keep your boundaries! Nothing wrong with that. And if he shows out while at the nursing home, you can call it a wrap and head on home to enjoy your holiday., stress-free and drama-free.

Your Father sounds angry.
Hopefully he can decide what to do & where to show his anger.

Your direct instructions to not talk to you with that rudeness is great.
It's the 1st warning.
Next add consequences. You will leave any visit to him or his outing is finished early. Maybe you could give a 2nd warning (a last chace) or just pack up as Funkygrandma said.
The key is following through on your warning. Very important.

HIS attitude will shape whether HE gets outings or not.

May the next outing be more pleasant. ✨️🎄

@funkygrandma59,
I told him today that I would not tolerate him talking to me like a dog and as he always does, he turned it back on me by trying to say I talk to him wrong. The holidays are supposed to be happy. If he does this tomorrow, I will tell him that I'm taking him back. I'm not getting any younger myself ( 54) and I want to enjoy every moment.

Have you tried telling your dad before you agree to pick him up that you won't tolerate any more negative behavior on his part as you want to just enjoy your time together, and if he can't oblige then he will just have to stay at his nursing facility?
You deserve to be able to enjoy the holidays without dads negativity, so if that means leaving him at the facility, then so be it.
And if he agrees to try to be nicer and later starts in with his negativity, just pack his things back up and bring him back to his facility, as you need to set some healthy boundaries. Perhaps he'll eventually get the picture if you stick to your guns.
Best wishes and Merry Christmas!