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I was told yesterday by someone who worked in Geriatics they thought my Father is not that ill he is faking it and manipulating. He started in again last night. It seems to me that if he cannot get to me he get's to my Son.

My Son, who is 10 is seeing this. When My Father is givien a small task he seems to make an issue out of it. Last night he was asked to cook a small meal for my Son. HE seemed in a good mood. HE will offer my Son noodles or pancakes regardless of what is here. It is not all the time, but at least once a week. HE will then say there is nothign else to cook (even if there is). HE then tries to argue over mundane things and my Son is picking this up.

My SOn's anxiety ahs been way high and upon talkign to my Dad several times abotu the elevated voice, the yelling, and the arguing, he continues. I have tried to purchase items that my Son can cook for himslef but now we are out.

IT seems to me that if my Dad does nto want to do soemthing he creates an issue. HE did say last night he wanted to cook but coudlnt' see items in the Pantry and insited (i was nauseas as hecK) he coudl nto see any food. HE took over and hour and a half and got up out of his chair once, to see what there was and offered my Son, food he did not eat. IT then reverted to, "I am nto getting up you get up and SHOW ME." I knew the game and refused.

The pantry was stocked. To try and minimize my SOns' stress I offered him and omelet. Dad had ate all the margarine and instead of getting more or writing it down on a list as I had suggested, we were out. That seems to happen more than not. HE will eat something, finish it off and not write it down. If he does write it down he does not show me, or does not pick it up.

I do not think the issue is food. I think my Father want's me responsible for everything. HE wants to sit and be fed. HE also neglects personal affairs (financial and doctoral) until I do them. The majority of the day he sits. HE does nto handle bills. HE does not handle personal affairs. I do not want to enable.

If my Son wasn't' present, I could handle these things in a different manner. IT seems when my Son is home that is when my Father makes waves. The majority of the day (when my Son is not home) he does not do this.

I am trying to figure out how to minimize my Son's exposure without having to leave the home as my SOn needs his routine. My Fahter has now gone to extremes with purposely making messes, not picking them up, and instigating arguments.

I have asked him to please go to the Library at night. I am concerned about my Son's anxiety. My Son has even talked to my Dad about behaviors and how upset he get's and last night my Son actually asked my Father to stop and he carried on.

I think the woman who worked in Geriatrics. who has heard the bulk of what my Father does believes it is more manipulation as he is miserable and wants to bring every one else down. He has been diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder.

Does anyone have any coping skills that I can use for myself or to minimize the anxiety my Son has over my Father's behavior without having to live in a separate residences?

I have tried ignoring my Father, but it seems he just does other things to get a response out of me or it seems to create an argument. I cannot grasp the fact that my Father wants to upset my Son. I do not get it.

Please try and be a little gentle on responses as at this point I am extremely upset. I think my Son comes home from school expecting to get upset. This concerns me greatly.

On another note; My Father promised my Son he would not behave in the certain manners (yelling, fighting, etc.) However he continues to do so. I am aware it takes two to argue, so I try my best to bite my tongue. However the smallest things that I say lead into a debate when my Father is upset. I try very hard not to debate back (around my Son) and I think my Dad knows this and makes every effort to get me to respond.

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With the amount of bills he's created we are not even near close to affording private hire care. We run month to month with no savings. I am VERY aware that children can pick up on stress which is why I am trying very hard to reduce my anxiety. I think the knowledge of the impact on my Son heightens my anxiety. We have also had therapist in the home and he refused to follow the recommendations.
His psychiatrist recommended a group for him to get him out with no cost. They do fishing, etc. He will not call to inquire. He also has a tendency to blow off appointments, etc.
What is difficult for me to comprehend is I see he is capable of some things. He just flat out refuses. You remind him he still refuses and at times the "reminder" is perceived by him as nagging at which point he may use the "nagging" as an excuse to blow up.
For right now I am coping by not asking him to do much as it is only creating an emotionally hostile environment. He has been sitting on the current to do list now for over two weeks (that started with one task and now has maybe 4).
Oddly when he had his Neuropsych appointment without reminders, he took a shower and went all by himself. He even remembered the time.
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I raised two children (one with special needs)while caring for an parent. If the parent wants you to take care of everything and you let them run your life, it's likely going to affect your child(ren). If there is stress in the house, then the child will notice and will likely be tense about what they will face when coming home from school. My parent was not in our home but it still has an impact because you the caregiver are frazzled.

If your dad is of the age when women did all that kind of work, then as the others have mentioned, it's not likely you will change him. Is his income adequate to afford a hired caregiver-aide for a few hours day? Even a few hours, timed to work best for all of your family's needs, will be money well-spent.
Good luck to you, and don't wear yourself out.
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Oh, and one more thing...there's also the 'My Whine Moment' along with What's the funniest thing your parent has said to you today" on this website. Even if you gain control, you're going to need to Whine. Seriously. Because this is the absolutely most frustrating thing I've ever done in my entire life, and that includes bringing up three toddlers all under the age of four, three dogs, two cats, two birds, a few hamsters 'lost', and after that, a divorce by a husband who was tired of the whole thing "Don't know why he was tired, he just worked :) Oh, and mixed in with all that, I took care of my MIL in the 80s into the 90s (she had this fourteen years) who had early onset ALZ...she was 50 at the time it appeared and I was the one with the kids at home, so it was up to me and my FIL to care for her because we, after all, 'didn't work'. Back then, there was no I net. Just a few ALZ books (I think three!) at the time. It wasn't that well known 'back then'.
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"How do you separate yourself from the chaos"...

You just take away the chaos and emotional drama by taking control. You're basically running a nursing home. Nursing home caregivers need to assert control. That's why visitors believe they are so 'mean'. If they didn't assert this type of control, and routine, patients would be everywhere. In order to do this, they see it as a job and can disassociate.

One way to keep order is to treat patients all the same because the reality is these illnesses present and run basically the same course. While the personality traits may be different, the underlying disorders are the same.

So, you don't yell from the couch while you're watching tv to say to your dad, "Take your meds". You literally shut off the tv, get the medication, with the water, and say, with a happy face, sing songy voice, "Time to take your meds!" And you stand there and watch. This is going to take time and may take a few fake calls to the 'social worker' you've been talking with at the hospital.

BTW, One absolute is you have to accompany your dad into the doctor's office. To do this you need a health care proxy and permission from your dad to go into the doctor's office. You need to hear from the doctor's mouth what the doctor said, not hear what your dad said he said.

If you're living in his house, and he has dementia, you need to get a POA to do what's next. If he has dementia, you're in 'control'. Note: IF HE HAS DEMENTIA, that's the way it works. I believe people w/dementia work best when they're no longer fearful. There's more comfort in knowing they're being cared for, so they no longer feel scared. So, he's no longer the parent, you are. But you don't do this without some sort of empathy, because, after all, he is your dad.

Someone above or in another board, mentioned meditation techniques. I don't know whether you download your music or use CDs, but I have a CD player in my bedroom. I also have one set up in her bedroom. Each day we have nap time (and believe me, my mother didn't like naptime at first, now she just goes in). Why? Because I needed naptime. I didn't care what she did in her room as long as she was in there for at least an hour.

So, at naptime, I go in and listen to the CD. At first it was all the time. Now that I've learned the techniques, I can do it pretty much anywhere. The best one I've found is Roberta Shapiro, she has a set of three. I know Amazon has it.

Once your dad is on his meds and once you've settled into a routine, you can then punch in a little love here and there. You can go out a little bit, walk, do stuff together if he's able and bring your ten year old with you.
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How old is your dad. What is his diagnosis. And why are earth are you leaving him alone with your ten year old son?
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You've received good advice. I'm coming from the professional school counselor perspective, thinking about your son, about getting additional support for him now, and relieving you a bit.

Your son is too young to have good coping skills for dealing with the situation. It's understandably impossible for you to buffer for him all the time or successfully minimize his exposure until your Dad is out of the house (even though you try).

But you can, if you haven't already, inform the school (his teacher and/or principal) there are problems at home. A good way to start is by saying “I need your help.” Just relate facts: Your dad (son's grandfather) lives with you. He has been diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder. He's (you fill in the adjectives--example argumentative, uncooperative, emotionally explosive). Your son is stressed. And while you’re working on changing things with your dad, you need their help.

Assuming your son is in a half-decent school, help is available: teacher, school psychologist, and/or social worker. The latter 3 have specific training.

If his teacher is sensitive, s/he has probably realized something is happening. S/he can be supportive by simply being a good listener. In addition, letting your son know sometimes stuff happens; and that your son is a good kid; and if he wants to talk about stuff the teacher is there for him--is also helpful and supportive, but not necessary. If your son likes another adult in the school (last year’s teacher??) that’s another support possibility.

Getting help from school personnel can also relieve you a bit to focus on what you need to do re: your Dad.

PS. A divorce expert wrote “even 8-year-olds can vacuum” (to help their newly-single mom). So your son can make dinner. (Give your son a simple can opener, hide the can of spaghetti from Dad, and avoid a potentially unpleasant problem,) Good luck.
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If your Dad has dementia then he probably doesn't even recognise his behaviour. My Mum is 86 and after looking after her in my home for two years unfortunately I could not give her the care she needs. She had turned into my child and now asks my daughter who I am. It is a horrible disease and very cruel to watch, there is nothing you could have done to stop it. Regards
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This sounds simular to my mom. They actually don't see the obvious nor will they go look for it. I will tell mom where something is and she asks how did that get there? She cannot reason that no one else is bringing her "things", so it must have been ME. My feeling is that he CAN'T find the food and goes on the defensive when confronted maybe because he can't explain it either. I really agree with the statement "they can't reason things out". I was very impatient with mom until I read up on dementia/alzhiemers and realized she isn't able to remember where things are or reason why they are where they are.
I hope you get a doctors diagnosis and perhaps there are meds to help.
Otherwise, perhaps AL is needed. Hugs.
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Aphena right now you need to take care the important stuff make the appointment with the lawyer yourself and get POA for dad so you can make sure bills are paid etc. If he insists on writing the checks himself supervise and make sure they are mailed or you can write and have him sign
The situation you are in is what it is nothing is going to change. All the rules in the world that dad agrees to won't make him follow them. Do not give him tasks to do ahead of time he will forget by accident or on purpose. When you need something done like taking out the garbage sweeping the front path ask him at the time to do it. He wont bring his dirty laundry downstairs so when you are ready tell him to go and get it Don't ask him to bring anything important back from the store because he will "forget" it because he can and that gets a reaction from you. Go with him to the Dr appointments and tell them which drugs he has been forgetting. maybe he does not need them. Put his meal on the table at the same time as you and your sons. Call him to the table and if he does not come tell him a second time. If you and your son have finished and he is still in front of the TV just to bug you pack it up and put it in the freezer for another day. Tell him you threw it out as he was not interestedHe is welcome to make something else for himself. It certainly sounds as though dementia or something is going on with him and if it turns out to be dementia all bets are off and clearly you can not all remain under the same roof. he clearly takes great pleasure in getting a reaction from you maybe it is him maybe it is the disease but he is unlikely to change so you are the one who needs to take action and let others manage him. No he won't come home cured and behave himself because he knows he has to or go back wherever he has been. He will swear he has learned his lesson and is so sorry for everything he has put you through and anything else he can think of to get back home. But once through the door the model behaviour will go out the window. You are the one in charge now. You are the woman of the house not his daughter who has come home because she is sick and can't manage on her own so dig out your big girl panties you will be glad you did. learn all you can about dementia but a ten year old is too young to be involved in anything but the basics. let him be a child as long as he can and keep him away from Grandpa as much as possible.
Jeannie has learned the hard way a lot about mental illness and dementia so listen to her advice.
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Of course your Father deserves the "chance" to get better. Absolutely. And that is why the moral thing to do is to place him where he can get the professional help he needs.
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On a positive note here he has stopped the name calling. Previously I was a prostitute (not the term he used), which to be honest I laughed when he said it. I agree, we should not put up with the abuse, and I feel the best I can do right now until I have a diagnosis is to minimize the impact on myself and my son through education and avoidance when my Father get's verbally abusive.
I am holding on to hope that after the diagnosis he can get help and the symptoms become more manageable. I think that the behaviors have gone on so long now I am getting to burnout. To lesson readers worries my Son has a MT and a psychiatrist.
If my Father does not get better with treatment I am very aware I will have to place him somewhere as the impact on myself and my Son is more important than my morals. I do feel though that my Father deserves the "chance" to get better. I Would want it for me, however if I start treating my child as a slave, I would rather have them not deal with me.
Also, my gf comes to my home quite a bit and thank GOD he refrains from a lot when she is here. He responds better to her than I.
Has anyone successfully done a rule chart? I think that may be the next step at the moment. We can all sit down, make rules and consequences on a list together to try and lesson the negative behaviors.
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When my Mom was 92 in February of 2012, she required medical attention for internal bleeding from the bowel; she had been prescribed warfarin to reduce the high risk of stroke. Twice the same week, I took her to Kaiser emergency for medical diagnosis and help. When the assigned doctor tried to admit her for a hospitalization, she got irate and absolutely refused to let just any doctor but her own admit her. Every day, she became weaker while passing dark stools. Finally, I reached her primary care doctor and had her properly admitted, got the colonoscopy and was treated just in time. Mom has bipolar mental illness, and at that time when she was mentally stronger, she wanted things to work out and be controlled only her way! In those earlier years, Mom alternated between extreme anger or depression. I lived with her and would know when to avoid her during her bad moods, but we would always seem to faithfully work things. I would not let her take advantage of me, so I always spoke up for myself or just walk away when her behavior became unreasonable. I love Mom and want what is comfortable for her..
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Aphena, your last couple of posts indicate to me the geriatric employee may be on to something. Your father may have some dementia, he may have some mental illness but that doesn't give him free reign to make your poor ten year old son miserable. My father was verbally abusive to me until,he died. He had problems as well, no dementia ever. I am 62 and I have scars from the verbal lashings I received. My last conversation with dad was him accusing me of wanting his money just because I was trying to get him help from the VA. He was a veteran and he had far more money than he wanted me to know.

I still feel inadequate due to the constant verbal and emotional abuse. Do something for your son now before it leaves permanent scars. Protect your son.
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On a second note, I have taught my Son about Dementia with me (we are very open). I have also made lists, reminder notes, etc. All is set up to in our home to make it fully functional. Dad says he forgets to look at the lists. He has very small tasks. I made sure to not overwhelm him.
Another issue I do not understand is when you have a list how you forget to do it. He has put off calling an attorney for months now. I try hard not to constantly baggier him to do things however some things are now getting way out of hand with his finances. I have taken over most of the bills, but payment agreements etc need to be done by him. He refuses to do the paperwork most of the time. Leads me to another question on how to determine what he can do vs. what he doesn't' want to and enabling?
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Don't keep father at home.
He needs professional management. You are deceiving yourself and decreasing your dad's functioning if you keep him at home. People function better (if they are able) in a professional, less emotionally involved center.

Your are ruining your life and your son's.
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Dad is in his mid 60's. I am thinking and looking at the responses, I did not see half of them the last time I posted. I totally agree with my Son being the importance. I myself over the course of all this have increased physical medical needs and I am pretty convinced at this point it is the stress. I wake up FEARING what is next from him. I try to ignore, but it seems all of his hardships in hius eyes stem from me. I see the dysfunction. When he si angry I am his outlet. HE is having neuro testing next week. I thought in the beginning this was mostly from the dementia. I am now catching a lot of misrepresentation. HE tried to convince everyone he could not do simple tasks, aka, a phone call (could not hear) now he uses the phone just fine and has been for some time without that complaint.
His "anger" can shift. HE can be completely angry and acting out but if there is a new person in the picture his mood shifts and he acts as if he is perfectly fine. I do not if he had dementia he could do that.
I personally am at my limit. Another issue is due to my physical ailments I cannot work. I am somewhat reliant on his help financially and he is aware of that. We ended up together shortly after they found the rare curvature in my spine. The initial reason he was with me was my health. He now tells other she wouldn't feel "right" leaving me. The issues now are he feels he cannot live without me. This all should be working hand in hand it is not.
I do think some of the negative behavior comes from a mental issue. I am not sure how much. It is very odd how it all plays out. I am thinking a lot of it MAY be that he doesn't' want to do much (and he has told me this) more so than him being unable. Which is which I do not know.
I was really convinced in the beginning he was seriously ill. After a year now, I am NOT. A year ago he told me he could not boil noodles, now MIRACULOUSLY he can. THe same thing with the phone. As well, he stated he could not understand his bills, yet he read the car warranty and deciphered it.
Medically I have set up his PCP again, a psychiatrist , and the neuropsych. He has blown off appointments, refused to take his medication, or follow up on recommendations With the medications, he does not outright say he is not taking them, he waits until I count them, confront him, tells me he forgets, and refuses to use a pill box. One of his meds was over a month behind.
I am very interested in hearing Op's on others who have dealt with similar issues.How do you separate yourself from the chaos (mentally)?
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I feel sorry for you as well. I thought I was the only one who was going through a similar situation .I don't have a child though. That makes it so much tougher I'm sure. I have had seizures all my life and my mother always took care of me. I am 58 years old and finally over my seizures but she still thinks I'm her little sick child. She acts manipulative as well and scoldes me just like a child. I can't get her to realize I am now grown and well. I too, get anxious and feel down and out and just dread waking up everyday. I am not much help because I too, don't know what to do. If helps me to know that I am not the only going through a similar situation. I tried anxiety drugs and they don't agree with me but maybe they will you. I wish you the best, for you and your son, and I will pray for you both as well. Let's just hang in their and believe God will help us get through this.
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Most of this has been covered, so I will not go into a long thought. My mom has Alzheimer's and would start things to draw away from her not knowing something or remembering something. I explained to her doctor how she was acting he referred to a neurologist who tested her, she is now on meds and doing better with the out bursts.
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Your father sounds like he has the beginnings of dementia and as such cannot really be held accountable for his actions. You do not describe his medical challenges, nor his mental state. Your son is ten and will have to adapt to others yelling and being anything but perfectly behaved. You on the otherhand must be the parent to both and make boundaries of what is acceptable behaviors and what is not. If your father is living under your roof and you are responsible for him you three need to sit down and talk. Air your differences, and if, as I suspect, your father cannot follow rules and remember what he promised because of the dementia, then you will have to make perhaps charts and lists to keep as a reminder what goes where, who does what, etc. Do not blame someone for something that may not be in their control. Read all you can about dementia and have your son read it too.
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joannes, you are so right about dementia and how hard it is to wrap our brains around this totally debilitating disease -- even for a trained medical professional if the training has not included specific dementia information.

Many of dementia's behaviors look like the deliberate behaviors of people who are unkind, demanding, and just plain mean. It is hard to accept that physical conditions in the brain -- atrophy, deposits of various materials, dying cells -- are the cause.

Thanks for sharing your work shop experience.
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We have had the same thing with our son and my mother-in-law. They are jeoulous the kids, the attention the kids are taking away from the parent. She wanted to argue all the time. We walked on eggs shells in our own home. We put her in assited living in April, now she wants to come live with us again. No way. No wonder they can not build this places fast enough. I am just shocked at the prices !! It is so much stress.
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I am agreeing with several others above. First of all, IF you have power of attorney, you give your dad choices....either he stays and you figure out how to live together, or he goes to assisted living. Secondly, YES...your first responsibility is to your son as he is under age. Now, if you do not have POA, then it's a matter of who owns the house you are in? If him, then you and son can move out. If you, then Dad still can be told he is the one to move out if he cannot behave. Now...if possible, I think Dad needs a full neurological work up as a lot of what you describe sounds like it might also involve dementia. If there is dementia, there is much he cannot control about his behavior and you need to know that. I just spent a day in a dementia work shop and the info was amazing, even though I am a retired RN! Dementia means it's possible he looks in the pantry and does not see, because the brain doesn't send right signals to the eyes all the time. Dementia means there's no point EVER arguing or explaining anything in detail or expecting him to remember to write something down on the grocery list. Bottom line in all this....YOU must care for YOU first, especially when you have a son to finish raising. You first, son next and Dad last. Your responsibility towards your Dad is to be sure he is SAFE....and nothing more. Any time Dad is ranting and raving and scared, police can be called for a welfare check too. That may tone him down. I had to do that with my parents a few times, before my Dad was placed. It can be anonymous so Dad can think neighbors called because they heard the yelling or such. But, do try to find out if dementia in involved here for sure because how you react to him is much different with dementia.
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Perhaps your focus should shift off of your father and on to your son who is old enough to learn to cope with difficult people. Get professional help if necessary.

This is a perfect opportunity for both of you to learn how to handle the manipulators who are found in all walks of life.

We can't change the people we encounter, but we can become strong within ourselves so our peace won't be disturbed by outside forces.

Blessings to all concerned and good luck in resolving this stressful issue.
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Your son is too young to understand the subtleties of his grandparent's behaviors and kids typically assign fault to themselves for family troubles. If you can sort out your priorities, you probably would put your son's welfare above that of your father. Given that priority, you may need to make hard decisions about where you and your son should live to minimize exposure to this negative influence in his life. Sometimes elderly parents respond better than you expect to the imposition of firm structure and rules. Good luck.
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For the two years prior to being diagnosed with dementia, my husband would have times when he could not figure out how to do chores. I thought he was being lazy. An MRI showed damage to his brain and I felt pretty bad about ignoring the signs for so long.
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I would investigate what the cause is for your dad's behavior and if it can't be adjusted really consider what is best for your son. If your dad's condition is dementia that cannot be helped with medication, then you have to make some hard decisions.

When I was staying and caring for my cousin, I know how difficult it was to handle her behavior. It was very stressful. It was even stressful on her cat. The cat was not happy due to the unpredictable outbursts, constant worrying, etc. by my cousin. I know we are expected to take care of our elders, but I don't think some situations are healthy for kids. This is just my opinion.
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This needs professional intervention.
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Living a similar life with my dad. My girlfriend was the one that pointed it out to me and it upset her very much. Even when I reminder her he has dementia, she doesn't believe it's all that. I consider myself thick skinned, I tell her think of it as water off a ducks back and don't let it bother you. But the truth is, it effects your daily life and wears on you. I hope you can get away once in a while ? I walk quit a bit to relieve some of the stress and once in a while get away for a weekend. Good luck to you, your getting a lot of great responses here that are helpful for all of us dealing with this.
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I think it's possible your father resents the attention you give your son. My Dad behaves in a very similar manner, as you describe, although the things I want him to do are only for himself, no one else. But I do get negative flack (in the form of and more incompetence from him and even more manufactured problems that he insists I must address) when ever he knows I want to spend time with my grandchildren (either to go visit or have them over). It's clear he resent any time or attention to anyone but him. I totally understand your stress and wish you well. I will be reading the other posts in hopes of finding help for my own situation.
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I am so sorry you are going through this but thank you for sharing your story. It really makes me think about my dad who is 80 years old and reading the answers to your post I see that he may have early dementia and I have said for years I think he is depressed but he won't do anything about it. He had a terrible primary care doctor who was not aggressive in helping him at all with anything so we have changed his doctor and I hope we get relief but my dad just like yours is mean to not only the grandchildren and to my sister and I but he is mean and rude to people and restaurants waitresses excetera it's a hard hard thing to take care of a parent and if you can get him out of your house or you can move that is what I would do. We are just waiting for something bad to happen so we can put my dad in an assisted living but for now he refuses to go you hang in there honey keep talking to everyone on here because it really really helps you are not alone
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