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Tried to increase MELATONIN through tart cherry juice 1 teaspoon per day. Even this low dose seems to cause loose stools and rushing to bathroom a little too late.


Tried to replace LARGACTYL sedative through cup of warm milk with 1 teaspoon sugar before bedtime.


Seems to sleep through the night. Then wakes up early morning 5am. Then breakfast at 7am. Then falls asleep. IMPOSSIBLE to keep her awake !


Now considering changing MY routine to suit HER routine. IS IT NECESSARY to follow the "circadian cycle" of "day-work night-sleep" ???


Maybe "night-work day-sleep" should be promoted because it is more beneficial to ELDER despite inconvenient to carer ? Carer's FOCUS should be ELDER (not carer).

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I could answer your question but it is national security and based on your profile if you knew you would be a threat and need to be exterminated.
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PreferNotToSay Nov 2019
No, I am absolutely not a threat. I dislike privacy violations by Facebook/ Google/ etc and millions spam emails I get daily. I will try to change my profile as it upset you. 8-)
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Hey, if you don't mind sleeping all day & being up all night, week in and week out, month after month, go for it! I say an elder SHOULD be sleeping at night and their schedule SHOULD be tailored to everyone else's, but if you feel that your focus should be on the elder instead of yourself, then who's to stop you? Don't forget, however, that in advanced old age, the vast majority of them sleep 90% of the time anyway, no matter WHAT lengths you go to!

Best of luck!
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PreferNotToSay Nov 2019
Thank you. WHY do old people sleep 90% of the time in advanced old age ? Are they TRULY asleep or just closed their eyes and lying down ? It is very reassuring to know excessive sleeping is natural. You are the only person who told me that. Whenever I ask "professionals", they tell me NOTHING. Mum says it is because they don't know !
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To me, sleeping through most of the night and waking up at 5:00 is pretty close to regular… have breakfast and take a catnap mid-morning. Pretty cool pattern! That’s what my all my animals, three types, like to do.
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I've ended up being on a graveyard type schedule since my mom is awake all night and sleeps during the day. Its difficult to get her to doctors appointments because she wakes up so late. I only schedule late afternoon appointments. Here it is almost 5:00 am and I'm just now going to sleep. It gets hard sometimes because I sleep till 2 pm but it is what works best for us at the moment.
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Depending on where she is in her life sleeping a lot is not uncommon and the patterns will change.
It was not uncommon for my Husband to sleep up to 20 hours a day and as he got closer to EOL (end of life) he slept even more. I am sure there were plenty of times he was awake at night and I was unaware of it. I would get him out of bed at 7 am, sometimes I would wake him but most of the time he was already awake. I guess the advantage I had was that he would not get out of bed unless I got him out.
When she wakes at 5 am what does she do? Do you HAVE to get her out of bed, or could she relax a bit more and give you another hour or so?
As caregivers we do have to focus on self care while we are also caring for someone else. So your sleep is very important, the time you spend on yourself is very important.

I just read one of your replies to an answer abut why they sleep so much.
There is a pamphlet you can read, you can read it on line..it is called Crossing the Creek. This pamphlet deals with sleeping a lot. And the explanation makes a lot of sense to me.
While people towards EOL sleep a lot it is to help them resolve issues. A lot can be done in a dream state that can not be done in real time. Sort of like when you have a dream and it seems like so much time has passed in the dream but when you wake it is only minutes.
I think a lot of processing of events also happens while they are a sleep. People with dementia are bombarded with stuff going on around them and it might be only when they sleep that they can slow events down enough to process them.

In any case..don't change your sleep pattern just to accommodate your mom's.
If she can safely stay in bed for a little while leave her there. It just might be that getting up a bit later will shift her day a bit and she will get used to the schedule.
If you can keep her engaged with projects during the day, a walk (even if she is using a wheelchair) the fresh air might help. This might stave off one of the naps and might lead to longer sleep at night.
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I don't see any reason, she is getting adequate sleep during the night. Old people just sleep a lot, possibly due to boredom.

As far as promoting the night work cycle, no way would I do that, nor would I give up my entire way of living for someone else. Homes put their focus on the elders, that is their job not mine!
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What are your natural circadian rhythms? Reason I'm asking is that it can be difficult to go against your own. I use to work a job that required me to get up at 2:30am. I started work at 4am and was off at noon. My "naps" in the afternoon ended up being 2-3 hours. Why? I'm a night owl and could never fall asleep before 9pm, even tired. The hours impacted my health. I was always hungry, always tired, and not getting any exercise. It took 6 months to get back to a "normal" for me sleep schedule.

If you decide to change your schedule, decide how much sleep you need and a sleep schedule. Stick to that schedule. Make sure you get 7-9 hours. 4 hours of sleep will eventually lead you to being physically and mentally exhausted. You might find yourself getting sick more often. (It's why it quite my job) Also, make sure your family and friends know when you will be sleeping.

I learned all this the hard way.
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I was advised to sleep when DH was asleep and be awake when he was awake. It didn't take long since we were both pretty much living in the living room and I started using a Sleep-chair.

My only problem was when he started waking me hourly at night to assist him in voiding (he used a urinal) - I was then advised to start using Ashwagandha and it helped me to get back to sleep most of the time. I kept iPad tablets charged for when I just couldn't get back to sleep. But really, the Ashwagandha helped me to remain stress-free and fully rested.
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Don't force yourself to make a change, it's not healthy. Nor is it healthy to be on 24hr duty without a break. This leads to burnout which doesn't help anyone.
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Many people experience sleep disturbances as they age. So they do not sleep WELL, but they often sleep more.

And towards the last few days or weeks of life, they may sleep 70 % to-100% of time.
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Wrong: career should care about herself/himself. Without proper rest work, sleep patterns you will run yourself into the ground in fast order. You are not a martyr and shouldn't become one. Remember martyrs always come to bad ends.
Cant she be left to watch tv while she is up? Lock the doors, turn off power to stove/kitchen? Or find personal care or a carer for ccx a few hrs.
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From what I've read, people who work night shifts are statistically less healthier than other workers. More obesity, more heart issues, more depression, etc. For example:

https://www.sleepfoundation.org/shift-work-disorder/what-shift-work-disorder/living-coping-shift-work-disorder

I would really caution against drastically changing your natural sleep/wake schedule for an extended time unless you are prepared to become less healthy.
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Working nights is harder on you - I've done it as an RN and the statistics are that the "night worker" is fatter, less connected to "day people", and at higher risk of health problems.

It is harder for some seniors to stick to a day/night schedule. Daylight, as in go outside, for extended periods of time helps to let folks' brains know when "day" is. If your LO takes a nap, limit it to 30 minutes or less so he/she is tired at bedtime. Exercise during the day may also help your LO to be more alert during the day and able to nod off at night. It may be time to get prescription sleep aides (aka sleeping pills) to help her rest throughout the night. You can try Benadryl or Tylenol PM (which has Benadryl in it) since this antihistamine tends to make people sleepy. We have used it for years in the hospital as a sleep aide for seniors. Of course, get your health care providers OK before trying it.
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Dad age 102 takes a nap usually, and he may doze off while reading once in a while but he goes to bed after the 10 PM news and is up by 7 or 8 AM, has breakfast, volunteers at meals on wheels, runs errands (yes, he drives)...So don't think aging means the end or sleeping all day. He also walks the mall, is giving regular PT a go for his sense of balance (contributing factor profound hearing loss), golfs, mows the lawn etc.

Mom on the other hand with dementia at 97 has not been doing the normal daily tasks so she has spent most of her days meddling, standing in front of the fridge, nibbling/snacking/ spitting grape skins in the sink and reading and re-reading. I have caught her napping on the sofa but she will NEVER put her feet up. She more recently began going to bed earlier (between 6 and 7) though dad has brought her down to eat dinner by 7. Sometimes the early to bed routine results in her getting up at 2 or 3 AM. She typically will go down and fuss around with dishes, turn lights on, read etc.

It is what it is except that my pup is my alarm system and will woof if anyone goes past our door, which wakes me...
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earlybird Nov 2019
Wow!! You dad is in tip top shape for his age of 102, how wonderful. Sorry about your mom, it must be difficult. Your dad is an inspiration to me. I need to get to the gym soon. Sounds like you have everything under control. You must be close to your parents, and what a caring daughter you are. God bless you gdaughter.
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I actually had to change my circadian rhythm pattern as I had to move out of state to care for my late mother. Did it, didn't love it as husband had a night job so we have an opposite sleep cycle. It can be done, BUT I was at my breaking point since my mother remained in her own home 7 states from mine. That's when my daughter found this forum for me.
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It is tough. I sleep with ambien.
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You are the caregiver, and need your rest. I would try keeping your mother in bed in the early morning until you are ready to get her up and start the day. My mother sometimes is awake at around 6am, but she is quiet and patient. I tell her I will be getting her up around 8 or 9am.We agreed to the time 19 years ago and we both stuck to the agreement since. I let my mother take a nap in the afternoon, if she is tired, but most days she remains awake. She retires between 8 and 9pm and usually sleeps through the night. I would have a problem, if I had to get up at 5am every morning, I have a medication from her neurologist just in case of sleep problems. I need my sleep to be productive, and plus I am not at all a morning person, be firm, wise and take care of you, so you can take good care of your mother.
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Keep your pattern the same as you need your rest - make sure she wear depends or similar to minimize getting up during night

I take 3 mg melatonin at night to help me - they are mint flavoured that dissolve in the mouth under the tongue but I believe that you can get them in many forms [possibly gummies?] so find 1 she likes & give her a pre-bed 'treat' every night - my dr advised to take it about 1 hour before going to bed so it is working well
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