After Lord only knows how long it has been--actually, since Mother's Day with my narc mother and Father's Day with my passive aggressive narc grandmother, I called my mother today. Why, oh freakin' why?

A bit of history; last year in May, my grandmother was in the hospital after having heart surgery. My narc sister comes from out of town and I meet her and the narc mom at the hospital to see this grandmother. The sis was already acting narcish, or weird in other words, when she texted me earlier to 'ask' that I come with her to get our nails done, because she was in severe need of a manicure! And that she was glad I was coming out, as if this was really about seeing her and not the grandmother at the hospital. I didn't even respond, but knew this visit was going to be aggravating as hell.

So, (as posted last year) at the hospital, all seemed well until out of nowhere, the sister started in on me why I haven't moved for years (mind you, I own my own co-op apartment) and didn't suggest, but practically demanded that I use my equity to find something else, like in the next town. Then she marches out of the room to go buy something for the grandma while I was answering back. Nuts.

Later while driving her and the mom back, she started in on me again, this time about an ex-friend of mine (a whole other related issue as she is also my mother's neighbor and somewhat instrusive in my family business which makes it even worse, thus the 'ex').

I basically said she is minding her business and to mind hers. She yelled from the back seat F** you and I yelled that back saying B**, because I was tired from the time she got to town (and years before that). That's when she pulled my hair and hit me in the back of the head WHILE I'm driving.

By the grace of God, I was able to get out the car to face her and let's just say I did what I needed to do to stop her. The mother is yelling to stop it, though she is the Queen Narc and thus had been instigating this. I was busy thinking how she could've shut it down a long time ago by not letting her think these things she pulls is okay! But again, she has always loved creating the conflicts that this weak minded sister eats right on up.

Fast forward back to now, it's been VLC, especially with this sister and mother. So I made this once in a blue moon call to the mother and as usual as if we just talked yesterday, she launches right in about this sister. And it turns out the sister is getting a divorce from her wonderful husband, moving back to town soon enough and already has new male companion supply that lives in my town. Crazy, right? I think this mother expected to catch me off guard, but it really didn't.

She had the narc nerve to tell me I was 'still' holding a grudge against this sister, I guess after not sounding so concerned. I told her in an even tone that they may call it a grudge, I cannot help or control how they see it, but I call it keeping myself out of harm's way and that it wasn't even up for debate; because I know she expects me to be in contact with her. Hell, I'm barely in touch with her own self! Also, I said I was happy where my mother's concerned, as far as her moving back here, as she and grandmother are elderly and live alone. But I didn't appreciate how they have treated me after years of supporting them with situations.

So, I'd like to ask what you guys think? Did I say the right things, or give this narc mother too much information about staying out of the way to keep from being harmed and not appreciating the bad treatment; as these narcs love using that against us? Or, should I get something clear with both her and this sis who is supposedly moving back here, that I will not be bothered with them? (been very hard to get across to them, so basically worked on myself). Any other insights?

Thanks for shedding any light, as of course my goal is to keep myself safe and at peace, as I have been working on myself with tools like meditating, sites like this and school.

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You do not need this stress. Love them form afar. Respect yourself enough to move on and pray for them. Life is way too short for this stuff!
I would tell your so called sis you will press charges if she ever touched you again. This is not acceptable behavior, it sounds like your sister has psychiatric problems and she may need to see a psychiatrist. Please be kind to yourself and do not involve yourself with this craziness. People can change and maybe someday you can resume your relationship but for now stay clear way.
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ShineBright Jul 2019
Hello Early bird, Frazzled Ma and Rovana,

Thank you for your wise thoughts.

Except for the radius area of where I live and work, I don't have any problem with wanting to stay away as much as possible, and just living the life I know I deserve.

My original question was more wondering if I said too much to the mother and if I gave her too much ammo with answering her about staying out of harm's way and not appreciating their treatment of me.

And upon further discussion, if the money I promised to send the mother before, and she was asking for now, opens me up to too much.

My thing is about boundaries but I know they don't hear much of *ish*.

Any emergencies like the elder narcs being rushed to the hospital again bugs me too, while the narc sis is not around. Though she is supposed to be moving back here, she won't be for a minute, she's keeping her home that's out of town, and she certainly won't be staying still.

I need to think the situation through ahead of time so I will be ready for whatever and not be caught off guard. Though I've learned to let the chips fall where they may, I could breathe easier with doing that while this sis was far. Coming geographically closer changes the dynamics and I am not having it with all her craziness.

Thanks again.
I agree with what others have said. Just don't answer calls, texts, emails, etc. They'll eventually get the message. I think the younger generation calls it "ghosting" lol. I see that term a lot lately on social media.

I've had to go no contact with some toxic family members as well. I tried for a long time to get along, smooth things over, keep the peace, etc until I began to understand the narcissistic behavior and realized that they live for the drama. Life is just too short to be around constant drama and stress.
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I would think it wisest to just stay clear of these people  - is there really any reason why you would maintain any contact with them?  I know some people would say "But it's your family!, etc. etc." but I know of no obligation to maintain friend relationships with people you don't want to be around.  Basic civility when there are unavoidable contacts should be sufficient. And no need to tell them, just do it. If they don't understand, well, that's their problem isn't it?
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Thank you Isthisrealyreal, Margaret and JoAnn,

You said it well and I hear you loud and clear. 👍

My biggest challenge now is hoping I don't run into them, as my home and especially my job is only about 10-15 minutes from where the mother lives, and about 30 minutes from where it sounds like the sis' new 'supply' lives. Although, it was said she was keeping her old home out of town and sure she won't be staying still, as she never has. But once again, that can be an issue. She's the type to pop up even if you moved to Timbuktu. Yuck.

She better not even think about it.
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Wouldn't she really get how done you are if she popped in and you treated her like a door to door salesman that didn't have anything you were interested in.

I used to joke with people that would say, " See ya around!" "Not if I see you first!" You could put that in to practice.

Sucks to have to keep your eyes peeled, but desperate situations require desperate measures.
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I personally, at almost 70, do not do well in confrontations so I stay away. And thats what I would do if I lived in a narcissistic household. I would just walk away because the abuse they seem to give is not worth my sanity. Seems there is one that they are able to "control" for a better word. And when they finally stand up for themselves "oh my".

I think what you said was OK. Will it leave a mark, no but you feel good that u finally said it. Leave it at that. Keep ur distance. I would never be in the room again with all three. Neither would I do hands on care for them either. Or bring any of them to live with me. (I am sure u would never even think to do these things) Let sister do the caring. Anything u tried to do or did would be shot down anyway. You can help financially.

Like I said, I don't like confrontation, I don't think quickly enough. But I have learned the time comes when I can quietly say what I want.

I had MIL who I never understood. Just when I thought I had her down, she would do something new. My DH doesn't know of the lies she told his Aunts and probably friends. His one Aunt was my GFs Mom I knew before DH. Actually, MIL would take what I said and twist it around to her benefit. Then there was outright lies. "Do u get M much" "No, JoAnn won't let me have her" wrong DIL. Gfs Mom would ask me and I'd give her my version, which she believed. Yes, MIL had a sickness. She was like this as a child but it gets to where u don't know what to believe. So, unless I was with her son, I didn't visit or allow myself to be alone with her. They moved to Fla in their late 60s. FIL, sweet man, died there and MIL stayed for the next 20 yrs till her death. We visited 1x a year, more as she aged. Its sad, I think she really wanted a relationship with her 3 DILs but just pushed them away with her lying and being passive-passive-aggressive.
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ShineBright Jul 2019
Hi JoAnn,
I wanted to give mention to this part, "Anything u tried to do or did would be shot down anyway. You can help financially". That's what I was thinking with the covert payback to the mother. Wondering if they'd still take my boundaries seriously by using this over her head as insurance to get them to leave me alone with saying something like, 'I will give you something from time to time, and at my discretion, but only if y'all don't start any more *ish*. Start something, and you can even say goodbye to that'.

Or not really a general speech, but something like case by case.

Because this mother is so materialistic, it's the only language she really understands; which I know why she 'listened' this last call. Because she was thinking about the money I already said I'd help her with.

Once again, at MY discretion.

Would really like to hear if you care to elaborate on your thoughts about this.

Much obliged.
To me, if you add yourself as an ingredient into this stew, then you are an no more than just another ingredient, and will get stirred right on in with the other "ingredients". You have admitted that you sort of know that going in. Yet when things were quiet you chose re-engaged. And now, instead of just saying "Whoops, I knew what that would end up like; my bad", and DIS-engaging, you are caught up in the circular thinking of it all. I think it is time to seek some help in learning how to concentrate on YOU--on making you healthy and keeping you healthy, and on decision making about who you let into your life. You already know who this family is. Isthisrealyreal was absolutely SPOT ON when she said that in a family like this, whoever enters the room is the new "chew toy". I will REMEMBER that line and use it often; I might even give her credit for it. Back to you. If you want to mix it up with them, go ahead. It's an option. You know the outcome, and it won't change, and no one will be surprised. If you want to help yourself, and disengage, then you will have to be given pointers by experts on how to disengage. Because you are being drawn in to habitual behaviors, and when the dance begins, everyone knows the steps. The choice to change is all yours. But by that I mean to change YOU. Because they are perfectly happy just as they are, and won't be changing.
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ShineBright, I know how tempting it is to tell your sister to fog off. Almost beyond bearable the thought of speaking openly and honestly and as cruelly as she has been, I would not do it, I would just not respond, calls don't get answered, texted get erased. She has already proven that she will lie to set you up for the kill. You know she can't be trusted, she knows she can't be trusted and apparently now her soon to be ex has figured it out. Your mom will never willingly see it, unless she becomes the target for your sisters venom, then you will hear about it and she will be wanting you to get back in her daily existence so she can shred your sister. Narcs are such cannibals they can't help themselves, they need someone's hide to survive.

I found with my narc family that whomever wasn't in the room was the chew toy. So I decided that I am good with them talking about me as long as they aren't talking to me. Not that I haven't had my fair share of knock down drag out fights with all of them. I just don't want to live that way and I am in control of me, I may beat the stuffing out of a pillow but I am all happy, life is wonderful, so glad to have seen, talked and now saying goodbye to you and your uglies. None of them ever get to see how they effect me, it's better than being able to cut them up with words. As you know, they are all about effect and causing other people upset, you win when you don't react to them.

She will get it when you don't respond to her and her attempts to contact you. Also, if you think you may run to the hospital in an emergency, telling them no contact and then showing up hurts your credibility, see she is just spewing again, she'll be back. Narcs love this kind of ammo. They will never let you live it down.

My personal opinion is to just stay clear, don't say anything and let your actions say that she is not worth one word from you, it was all said and you are right, you can't subject yourself to physical violence. Even though I know how good you felt to whoop her sorry self.

You are doing great, good boundaries and enforcement of boundaries, don't let her moving back change your decisions and choices.

Thank you for your kinds words, I am glad that my personal journey with a family of narcs can help others, you too have great advice for dealing with this species.
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Saying ‘no contact’ is just a trigger for ‘why?’ and an argument. Just do the no contact – actions speak just as loud as words.
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Hi Isthisrealyreal,

How are you? I always loved your great advice, and thank you once again. I wholeheartedly agree.

I do have two other thoughts about it; one, is I wonder if the narc sis also needs to be told about no contact, because I only made it clear with the mom hoping it'd get back to the sis thru the mother's loose lips. However, I wonder if she did tell her, as she also might be in denial about what I said and therefore not relay it.

The second thing is I turned her down for help (mostly due to school at the time) but I also told her some months back that I would give her male companion, who also lives out of town and is retired so finances are tight, money to come help her with moving furniture and stuff so the maintenance crew in her building can install new windows. She claimed the sis came to help her instead--so I thought good, no need to pay--but now saying that was for something else. Being she is in her 80's, I have to think that nowadays it could be a cognitive issue. Even though I still gave her a piece of my mind about it, I said she could text me when he comes and I'll send it. And the ONLY reason she is getting financial help is I'm secretly paying her back when she took care of my dog for me some years ago when I had an accident and broke my ankle; was laid up in a cast for some months. She wouldn't accept money for it, hard as I tried to pay her once back on my feet, because I knew she was doing that to throw it in my face one day (a narc specialty). For sure, that day came. So, even though I have done numerous free things from the heart, secretly paying her back in this way enables me to throw it back at her or any other toxic family members like this sis; should the situation ever arise again. That is the only thing I am 'indebted' to her about.

Yet, wondering if these two factors violate my boundary enforcements I want in place, as I expect them to take it very seriously.

I also wonder if it's possible to enforce this case by case, i.e. they (mother or grandmother) have another hospital emergency? Or should I go ghost after paying this money, no matter what happens? 🤔
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I think you made yourself clear and now you just enforce the no contact boundaries. Nothing more needs to be said.

No opportunity to argue and tell you how wrong she thinks you are, no opportunity for mom to enjoy seeing her protege run you into the ground.

This is good news for you, now you can go no contact with mom and g'ma because your moms other daughter can step up and prove how wonderful she really is.
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