My husband is resisting putting my FIL in a home. I think it’s time.

What does your husband think of your kids being around this - it isn't healthy - feces everywhere. You both are not giving Dad the care that he needs and it is not your fault that you are  not a mini nursing home. Dad needs to be where there is sufficient staff around the clock who are trained and experienced in helping dementia, incontinent patients with their needs.

It is not a good situation for you and your husband -probably too exhausted and burned out to be good spouses or parents, definitely too burned out to be giving dad the much higher level of care his condition is now requiring.

My son might prefer to stay at home and play video games all day but school is in his best interest. Maybe not exactly the same - but you are now the adults in this situation. Do what is clearly best for you all.

you are not putting dad on an ice floe - you will visit, take care of his needs, just not take care of his physical needs - the professionals will.

let us know how it goes.

Depending on how good your FIL MD is, that may be your best resource! When was your FIL’s his last complete physical?

Doctors are suppose to determine what level of care their patients require based on specific assessments that they perform. They calculate how much the patient can do for themselves vs how much care they need from others for things like activities of daily living, such as dressing, bathing and toilet use to things like cognitive functioning, medical diagnosis, etc.

Your FIL’s needs may be met in a memory care Assisted Living facility if his dementia isn’t too advanced, some specialize in only memory care and have specially trained staff and a specially designed and safe environment.

This may be an option that your husband would like better because it won’t look as “institutional.”

I do agree with you, it gets to a point where moving your FIL into a specialized care home will benefit everyone, especially your FIL.

Good facilities will do everything they can to improve his quality of life while minimizing stress.

They will assist and and encourage him to be active with activities specially designed for patients with dementia. The entire environment, everything from the type of furniture, paint colors, background music, even the color of the plates and glasses are specifically designed with managing dementia. He will make new friends, even though you probably can’t imagine that now, the social aspects are also very important.

Have you thought of hiring a senior care, or geriatric care manager? This person would be a huge help to you!!...... presenting you options and with the transition if that is what you chose to do.

You and you husband have done so much for your FIL for so long! He is lucky to have you both!

But diseases progress, and it gets to a point where you can’t provide the care he needs any longer. It isnt helping anyone, nor is it healthy for anyone, having that much stress at home. Your resources are limited in a home compared to a specialized facility where everything is designed for managing the disease, including specially trained staff 24/7.

The other part of all of this is the financial aspect. Sadly, it does come down to money, something I personally believe is unethical. The more money you have the better facility and care. There are financial experts that can help you no matter what his circumstances are.

Good luck! And please be careful, especially if he starts to wander at night. You may need to unplug the stove or take the knobs off so he won’t start a fire!

If your husband can't see that this is all getting beyond home care you may need to draw a line.

If he wants dad at home then he can deal with the feces and incontinence issues solo.

I have a huge issue with seniors that insist on staying at home in some one else's house. If he was able to live in his own house and hire all the help he needs then this becomes an option. But he guit living at home 5-6 years ago.

Yes, you opened your home and made him feel comfortable but it is still not his house and he cannot expect to have everyone else compromise their lives for his wants.

It is so unfair to everyone, including dad. Who wants their grandchildren to see them covered in feces, unable to dress properly? Not anyone in their right mind. Give FIL his dignity back and let the pros take care of him.

My grandma was in a NH for 12 years back in the late 70s through the 80s. I know she would have rather died then have us kids see the things we did while my mom tried to care for her at home. That makes me sadder than the years I had to visit her at the nursing home.

I pray your husband sees how the kindest thing to do is not always the easiest.

Ps: if the doctor okays it, most facilities will allow alcohol consumption.

What does caregiver do if all those things are happening w the feces & underwear? Maybe he needs male caregiver? You should not have to deal with anything like this when you come home after work as you should just eat, take shower & go to sleep...& get ready for next day’s work...like getting your clothes or your lunch ready (if you take packed lunch to work)

Where was the caregiver when this all happened? Yes, husband should have cleaned it up. Hope you aren't leaving FIL alone. He is past that.

Your husband's priority is you and his children. His Dad needs more care than you can give. It is no longer what he wants, its what he needs. So much will be taken off your shoulders if he goes into NH. He will be fed and clean. You can use the doctors there so no more appts. If on Medicaid, footdoctor, dentist and eye doctor will come to him. His laundry will be done for you. You and husband should be enjoying your kids while you can. FIL has had his life. Time for yours.

Others have given good suggestions. My Dad could be your FIL. He is now in a nursing home, has structure, is clean, and after 3 months of adjustments, he is exactly where he needs to be.
We just had a family gathering at the nursing home.
Dad was asking for wine with the meal. So my brother brought 2 bottles of non alcoholic red wine. He had the bottle covered so you couldn’t see the label. It looked like wine, smelled and tasted like wine. Dad was happy. He had not had a drink for 5 months. He never said anything about it except to thank us.

Placing FIL in a care facility doesn’t happen without planning. If he doesn’t have enough money or income to cover the costs outright, then you are facing the process of getting Medicaid coverage. A Case Manager through a community agency (or check “A Place For Mom) will be a great help in preparing for the transition and recommending facilities as well as negotiating the system. Additionally, in my experience dementia in an alcoholic patient is especially difficult because, even when they are not drinking they have few inhibitions and caring for them can be especially distasteful. Unless FIL has adequate, readily available finances it will take months to get him placed.

You say that your husband can ‘hardly stand to talk to him any more’. This makes it sound as though you do most of the up-close-and-personal care. Perhaps your own doctor could tell you that it is damaging for you (and I’m sure it is – you don’t have to be too imaginative). If your husband has to take over more hands-on care, he may see quicker that this has to change. And try to arrive home after your husband!

For everyone's sake, PLEASE put your FIL on a care facility. It does not matter if your husband is resistant right now - but clearly, his relationship has already broken down with his father. You will soon have S***T all over the house with the progression of FIL's dementia when he starts smearing it on your walls, on your cupboards, etc.. Does your husband really want to live like that? Do you want to live like that?

As I type this I am in my parents half empty apartment 500 miles from home, in another country. I arrived in Canada on Sept 6th from NY to 'check on' my elderly parents after Dad had his second trip to the hospital for falling in a month. Thankfully the caregiver that I had hired had the good sense to insist that I make the journey to their apartment asap. Unfortunately it has meant that I will be away from my life until the end of November so that I can be here to help them acclimate and drive them to doctor's appointments.

My mother had always insisted that she would not go into a home and even though she suffers from dementia now, Dad wanted to honor her wishes. My older brothers who both live 3 hours away hadn't visited since May, one week after I had last visited and as I'm sure we all know the downhill slide for elderly people can be quite significant within a 3-4 month period.

Unfortunately the duty fell on my shoulders to find a home, get them in, clean out their apartment etc, etc. while one brother refuses to speak to me because I could not get them into a long term care facility closer to him. (My brother has always lived in a state of denial. When his MIL had a stroke and required a wheelchair it was his opinion that she wasn't 'trying hard enough to walk'.)

I tell you from my recent experience that it's not easy but it is necessary. Assuming your husband is a reasonable man I would ask him to read some of the responses you will receive and failing that, at least take the time to read the other questions and answers on this forum that are pertinent to your situation. You've got a lot on your plate and I wish you luck and will say a prayer for everyone that has found their way to this forum.

When they become incontinent bowel and bladder, that is the most common cause of nursing home placement. Alcoholism and Alzheimer's do not mix. He's going to have to get hospitalized just to dry out, because that's not a good means to control his behavior. Listen it's only going to get worse. If your husband wants to keep his father home, I suggest you make him clean up his own father's feces and bath him and see how it's like. one thing forget about working full time. Or even part time. You can't. someone is going to have to quit their job and care for him full time. It's NOT worth it. I don't know if he's on Medicaid or not and there is a five-year look back law. Hopefully you kept RECORDS on the cost of his care. If you paid under the table you will be penalized. If you used the same caregiver, and paid over a certain amount of money (I forgot how much, but it's only a few thousand dollars) you become their employer and you must legally do their taxes. You also take a chance hiring someone under the table--they can CLAIM to slip and fall in your home and sue your estate. That's why I rarely use people, and when I do I get it from an agency because they are licensed and *insured* so they cannot sue your estate--they simply go on workman's compensation.

You re wrong, Minstrel! My mom was in an excellent facility. She was happy, as were we. I would have no qualms about living there myself when I reach that point.

If you’re both at the point where the sound of his breathing is stressful; then yes, it’s time. Easier said then done but I found a few practical suggestions that could help...
1. Measure out his alcohol. My mom “wants” hers, too, so we pour 90 percent of it into another container, leaving only a glass or two. When it’s “gone”...we shrug and state, “well, we’’ll get some more tomorrow “ and refill it the next day. (Or have the caregiver do so...)

2. Ask him and yourself what memory is important in the end. They’ve stopped being your parent and became a patient....and a patient who will have no memory of your sacrifice. Resentment will last longer than the pleasant memories of what he was before he was “sick” ...and it takes a long time to detox from that.

3. We are not in “his/her position, so we can’t reverse the situation if it applied to us. Our mind isn’t turning against us, theirs is and even if we get diagnosed with it, we won’t know what’s going on any more than they are at this time

for all of us experiencing it, they call it the long goodbye for this reason. You have to say goodbye at some point and detach.

It doesn’t make it easier to realize you can’t do anything but your best, but sometimes what’s best is that a professional does what they’re trained to do over what a family can accomplish...even if it’s in another place like a nursing home. Will anyone like it? Probably not but if it’s the best thing...especially now, then it’s the best thing for him, your husband, you, your family and everyone’s sanity...because the patients mind can’t decide that for you to relieve the guilt or frustration

I don’t see how you can go on that way. You should perhaps put your foot down, ESPECIALLY if you’re carrying more of the load. You cannot live, even survive well, that way. Your lives have to come first, an unpleasant truth for demanding elders!

A strong point is that placing your FIL will mean more quality time for you and your family, and very importantly, each other. My friend who placed her husband said that she was able to finally be his wife again and not his caregiver. Her resentment and anxiety lessened and she was able to show much love to her husband as he neared the end. I would do the same thing for my LO. When there is so much tension in the household, it's not good for anyone, even your FIL. Start looking now, even if your husband is resistant.

My Heart and Prayers Go out to Your Family! Do what You think is BEST.

One of my female friends was married to a guy whose mother lived with them. She had some moderate dementia, cancer, and a bunch of other problems. My friend was stuck in a nursing role, because her husband felt too guilty to put his mother in a retirement home. The couple put off having kids until the mother finally died several years later.

And then my friend was told old to have children (she married) late. This wrecked their marriage, and they divorced shortly after that.

Unfortunately, you are at the point where your husband needs to be told that you will move out of the house if the FIL continues to live there. If this goes on much longer, it will damage your relationship with him. It isn't fair to you that he is putting you in this situation.

I would say keep talking to your husband. It sounds as if he is willing to place him but as you say is having guilt over it. As one post says keep telling him it will allow him to be a son again as opposed to the caretaker of someone who gets angry with him all the time over the alcohol issue. I can only relate this to my feelings of having to make the decision to put my elderly dog to sleep, the guilt was powerful, I constantly questioned wether it was the right decision. Then once I made the decision I was at peace with it. This is the point your husband needs to arrive at.

Get started with the process. Your husband needs you to initiate the action. Visit facilities right away and get your FIL on wait lists. Each step you take will help your husband adjust to this new difficult reality. So, instead of asking, "Should we put dad in a facility?" you ask, "Do you like this nursing home or that nursing home?" Each question you ask of him should be concrete ones that act as preparation for your FIL's eventual move. This approach will help you feel like something is being done instead of that terrible feeling of frustration and inertia, and will step by step prepare you and your husband for that needed move. Hopefully, your husband will feel relief instead of angst as you move forward.

think carefully . You might take a day for yourself to get a little relaxation and get a clearer viewpoint. It sounds like you are very frazzled and emotional
Emotions will Always give the wrong answers
I find the Korean Spa is a big help to me for relaxation and clearing my mind
When we take on a man we take on all their karma good and bad
Your father in law is clearly a chronic alcoholic, the confusion and incontinence go along with the drinking. He may do well with a medical detox
Stopping all alcohol abruptly is ill advised
To you he is just a disgusting and irritating man who is bothering you life and messing up your house
However to your husband he is a father that he loves dearly.
If you push your husband in a direction he doesn't want to go you may be putting cracks in your marriage.
Loving caring good men are not easy to find. Think carefully
There are always a number of solutions to any problem
Either living at your home, or a care facility are not the only possibilities.
Its just a matter of having a clear mind to See the possibilities. And from there to
make the best fitting solution
You are not dealing with this gentleman, you are dealing with yourself
Good luck on your journey...fair winds :)

Have you considered a geriatric counselor for you and your husband to attend together?  Before we moved my mother into AL, three of the siblings met once with an eldercare psychiatrist, and then with an eldercare counselor. Boy did that put us all on the same page.  We have since met with the eldercare counselor to keep us on track so that we are all on the same page. Plus it keeps our guilt in check.  It beats a marriage counselor or a divorce attorney.

I am so sorry your situation had taken such a turn. I was living in my own apartment and my son was looking out for me from time to time I started having falls and they were causing serious problems. The falls left me with pain in addition to the pain I already have from RA. My mind is VERY clear, but I am 76 and know that I needed to do something that would relieve my children from caring for me. I did not have a lot of money. My falling was too serious to move to a inexpensive Senior apartment. I started looking at Independent living. I was impressed with most of the places I visited. Some were very bad
and I was not sure if they had drugged their residents. But, they were all hanging over their chairs and no one talking I brought my kids into the picture. They were so thankful as they are all very busy with their lives. The place I chose to live in has the option of AL should I need it. My kids and I have collected all my resources, set up a budget and they have committed themselves to adding funds when needed. One of my kids is a teacher and there will be no contribution from her. Their income is so low. I do received SS so I will be making my own payments until I cannot do that anymore. My rent is $2575.00 a month. It is SO high. It will clean out my savings. BUT, my God knows my financial situation. Your father would ENJOY the people around him. Be very selective. Talk to people who live in the "home" and have a meal to see if they have decent food. You will make it, but he has to accept he needs to move now. Tell your husband he is not doing his father any favor keeping him at home

Everyone wishes they could stay in their home. Two issues.....one you have already touched on is his care and safety. Has your husband visited facilities? Most elderly think of the old nursing homes that weren't great. Guilt.....boy that's a killer. He isn't harming someone on purpose. Quite the opposite. It's for the right reason. More eyes on him and caregiving. Even though you have a care giver during the day it's at night time and times like you came home to that aren't right. If the care taker can't control him how are you expected to? Plus the fact, this is YOUR home not his and it's not a nursing home of alz/dementia facility. (Trust me....I'm burned out from taking care of my 96 year old father and I just moved him into an assisted living facility by me so I wouldn't have to drive 45 min. every time he called with a problem)(my mom passed from dementia 2 years ago). Your husband probably wants someone to do this for him as my father did with my mom. He just couldn't do it so she stayed home way too long with him being the only caregiver. Tell your husband with dementia his father won't know that he's at a facility. Tell him you are all going to a hotel. That will become his NEW home and he will be on a schedule with more eyes on him and people that know how to handle withdrawal and cranky people. Plus, you will have your home back and not smell like urine or poop! He is NOT doing anything wrong so should not feel any guilt (but I get it). Ask him if he wants you to start looking for places (or tell him you are) and give a deadline. A lot of places need time to find a bed or a room. Maybe a waiting list. Start the ball rolling with baby steps then at the right time he will be ready if work has been done for him. Good luck and God Bless....

Danielle78, I wish to address your loving husband.
Dear husband:
I have been in your shoes.
I started helping my dad 15 years ago when my mom died. He was in relatively good health, both physically and mentally at that time. As time went on, I had to devote more and more time to help him with the simple things in life and around the house.
After his PCP diagnosed him with cognitive impairment and told me he should not be left alone anymore, I was on my own to find people to help me: my sister lived eight hours away in another state, and my brother’s suggestion was to put him in a facility. Dad asked me to keep him at home as long as possible; I agreed provided that he stayed physically capable/mobile. I had the opportunity to retire early, and since I had no other family obligations, (no spouse or children) I became his full-time caregiver, hiring help as I could to split the days and shifts with me. 14 years later when he entered the late middle stage of Lewey body dementia, I started searching for facilities nearby because my health/quality of life was suffering also: no respite from the situation because if someone needed time off I was the fill-in, constantly taking care of his house/property and my own. My sister, brother and his son helped here and there.
When I moved him to this facility, I was very stressed about how he would acclimate. I needed not to worry, because he never knew the difference. He had plenty of pretty ladies to pay attention to him and he was past the point of knowing if he was at home or not. He is in a safe environment, regular meals, maintenance, housekeeping and laundry provided, and plenty of people there to help him. More importantly, I can enjoy our visits as a daughter rather than being the caregiver, housekeeper, groundskeeper, etc.
You’ve been the loving son; you provided for him as long as you could. Your duty now is to your wife and children. Assess your father‘s financial situation, search for a facility that will fit his needs, move him there, remain that loving son and be the loving husband and father to your family that they want and need. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

Good grief, and Blessings to you!  I commend you and feel sorry for you at the same time for putting up with this for over 5 years!  Some might say I am insensitive, but so be it.  1st, cleaning up FIL from bodily accidents is NOT acceptable.  This is just disgusting and would be only bearable if it were your flesh and blood.  You are right, you are past the point that FIL's wishes do not count --- you aren't sending him down to a homeless shelter for Heaven's sake.  And yes, professional care is needed and warranted here.  We too have my FIL living here, and we both work full time - however, I do not have minor children in the house, and can honestly say I would have blown my top if I had (my grown kids get to listen to me gripe all the time)! LOL 
I would encourage your husband to look at this through what is best for his dad, not his personal feelings.  I'm sorry, but we are not obligated to suffer endlessly for combative, mean and nasty family.  You have got to do everything possible to keep your marriage in a healthy place, as well as being the parents you need to be for your kids, who count on you.  If your FIL is like others I have read about on this site, I would guess that his unpleasant behavior is nothing new.  So many grown children continue to have an often well meaning, but misguided sense of what they are obligated to do.  I can only tell you that in our situation, my FIL is on the last step before going into a home (i.e. needing a feeding tube/ incontinence) ...  I flat out refuse to handle this - and like you and your hubs, I can't hardly stand to look at him.  I try to limit as many interactions as possible, which is not easy considering we live in a small, open house where HE is everywhere is seems.  If you can't seem to help you hubs understand, perhaps a counselor on aging or some other type of professional help may be of assistance.  To be sure, I don't think anyone "goes" willingly, but you have to stand strong and do what has to be done.  He will get over it.  Please safeguard your marriage and sanity.  Keep us posted.

We have been there too. It is not easy. I commend both of you for caring for your FIL for as long as you have. It does get to a point where we are not doing ourselves as caretakers or our family member any favors by continuing on in this manner. Your FIL obviously needs more care at this point than you can provide. We had to eventually talk to my FIL regarding placement, and he was not happy at first, however we had his nurse from Hospice talk with him and he had already been in a facility several times for Rehab (several falls). He ended up choosing the place he is now in and is doing very well. He attends activities, eats with others in the dining area and goes on outings. He does not have dementia, however has some cognitive issues. We continue to visit and support him in any way we can. Please contact your local senior center or elder services in your town and they may be able to help you with resources or even the Alzheimer's Association, who are also very helpful. My prayers are with you all and good luck with everything.

FIL needs 24/7 care at this point. Especially with the Alcohol and toileting issues. Its good to be wea -ning him off the ETOH. But sounds like he still has access to the wine while u r at work. Thats a problem.When a person gets so bad with toileting habits then their needs to be intervention there.Have had my Mom going on 4 years with us but no issues with ETOH. She does need to be watched with her briefs. At times she will not remember to put them on! And forgets to wash her hands. So I mske a point when she goes in the bathroom to check on her. And I do her bathing 2-3 x weekly as a routine. That helps. The bathing is something that needs to be instigated early on with AL patients before they get to set in their own thinking. Sometimes they will refuse but I tell her if she wants to stay living here she will need to bathe regularly. And she usually will folow my lead as i prepare her towels and bathmat and washcloths for her situated on her shower chairs then she sees uts time. One thing that helps i give her a short back rub with lotion as she sits on the seat of the toilet after she gets out of shower and after i dry her back. And help her dress. 7 stages of AL. She is in 6th stage. Plus she has aphasia. Sounds like your husband needs to step up. It is his parent not yours. And its not his mother. I would not of done this with my father in law. That is a different thing all together. But if your FIL had a care giver during the day aren't things being taken care of with her? If not time to get a new caregiver.

You have seen the light & hubby seems hasn't yet but may be starting to - FIL is needing more care than you can provide - he needs constant supervision by professionals who are trained to help people with these type of needs

Have your kids said anything to you about their grandfather? have they stopped having their friends over? do they try to avoid him? - if any 'yes' to these questions then maybe it is time for the kids' sake too because they can grow up resenting you for putting that burden on them - talk it over with hubby about how the situation effects the kids because your first responsibility is to them not FIL

Have you started watering down that wine? start at about 10% & gradually increase it until you get to where he is noticing it which should be about 75% - it is the habit of having something tasty in his glass - even use white grape juice as part of the watering system

My mother went through a similar situation with her mother, took care of her at home for the longest time but it started to take a toll on my mom. Her life was not the same due to the physical fatigue but more importantly emotional. My grandmother's mind was not quite there; in and out mostly.

I had to explain to my mom, that her own mother (my grandmother) wouldn't want to see her only daughter struggling like she was. And I asked her, if you were in the same shoes, would you want me to take care of you and struggle. Her answer was an immediate no. Sending her away is not being a bad daughter, it's best for her since she will get professional care and you will not be so drained everyday as your health is started to get effected.

It took a while for her to come around but finally did find a facility for my grandmother. It may just take some more time for your husband to come around. It's definitely not an easy decision and hard to be logical when it's your own parent.

Wishing you the best!

He needs care from medical professionals. No guilt. You cannot continue as it is presently.