How to handle elderly parent when walking away is not an option?

faithfulbeauty: Consult a Medicaid planner.

Noted that she made a separate post today, which I already read and commented on.
Now that I see this Nov post, all the more reason to be firm and NOT allow even 1 day in her house!
I'm glad its getting a re-discussion - I'll read all the answers. Since, I have some of the same struggles in my mind as she mentions, although her situation sounds way worse.
A bit of a win for me, and much of it is due to support from this forum and various people, is to never allow a parent to stay in my house at all......thankfully I have not given in to that and am grateful for the advice.

I am following this because my dad is abusive also but is alteady in my house. When my mom got sick they moved in and my dad gave us money to invest in a larger house. I feel absolutely trapped.she has passes ten years ago this year and he is 92 and just getting meaner and I am sure will regress physically. My 60s will be spent as a 24/7 caregiver..

Please note that this post is from November 2023.

Faith has made changes since this post. Here isvher newest one.

https://www.agingcare.com/questions/how-is-everyone-doing-today-485502.htm

There is a lot of great advice already given.

To me, you are at a pivotal point here. He is already in PT now and he should never return home. ‘He is not safe at home and I cannot take care of him.’

I think you should call an elder care attorney immediately to talk about what needs to be done as it is very confusing. Do not take legal or financial advice from the home that stands to benefit from private pay. Call a lawyer now, it’s worth every penny.

Good Afternoon,

First of all, you are not stuck. There are always options especially since there is a house involved.

I also think you might mean your father will not be eligible for Medicaid as opposed to Medicare?

One person cannot do the work of a shift of people who work 8 hours and then go home to refresh. They will not discharge your father without a care plan.

Also, it has to be a "safe" discharge. A lot of places you can check out online, virtually. You don't have to run around.

I would seek an Elder Attorney and a Hospital Social Worker. What about a 5-tier Independent Living with Assisted Living, Long-term Rehab, Respite and Physical Therapy with the Nursing Home being last on the list.

You can coordinate and oversee everything. Come for lunch every Thursday and call him once a day. He can visit for the holidays. Plus would a father really want his daughter to care for him. He needs a male custodian and probably a physical therapist.

He needs a team of people. Be mindful of medications he is on and any side effects, etc. His food intake, take note of dehydration and does he wander?

I have been in the trenches and learned all of the jargon. You have to make the changes along with the decline of what is usually a progressive disease since you are going up against old age.

I hope I was of some help.

I posted the wrong link recently. It should be
https://outofthefog.website/

I am not recommending to walk away but do not become a care slave to an abusive elder. Your father has no right to demand what you will and won't do for him. You have to tell him what you are able to do for him. You need to take control of the situation. You have the power, not him.

Consult an eldercare attorney to put your father on Medicaid and place him in LTC. Yes eventually the proceeds of his home will go to reimburse Medicaid for what they laid out. That's just how it is. I'm going through this Medicaid application process for my mother as I write this. The house sadly is will be gone, no inheritance coming my way but that's just how it will be. But the peace of mind knowing my parents are cared for and that I am not managing the moving parts anymore is worth every penny.

Another less preferable option would be to take out a reverse mortgage to fund his care in his home. You will be involved managing his care but not the hands on person. Not as good as the NH option but it might be what you could live with.

Do not destroy your life to be a care slave. A parent who loves you would not expect that you do.

See an elder care lawyer to find out your options MEDICAID NOT MEDICARE pays for long term care, depending on your state. Does he have a POA and health care proxy. Definitely needed. You can always refuse to take him home and it will be up to the NH to find him a placement. You can visit him in a facility and that is not “walking away” although I would do that infrequently as he is affecting your own mental health which is precious. (If you can’t afford Lawyer, try going on “ask a lawyer” and ask a question but you need an actual lawyer to draw up documents- perhaps the first question would be “Where can I find a pro-bono eldercare lawyer”)

Faithfulbeauty, you say walking away is not an option.

What do you see as the choices available to you?

Excellent advice already here.
Definately recommend that Out of the FOG website!

My relative once said something like "Well my helper didn't come so YOU will have to come & do it" to whatever task-of-the-day/week it was..

No. I am not coming.
And I didn't.

The world still turned & we all survived 😁

I had found out 'the help' was being cancelled & I was being called instead. At first I felt the pull, the guilt. Being caught on that hook as Alva so well described.

Now? I shrug. I swim on past that hook!

There is a fair bit of information on the site about Medicaid and Medicare, although the details can vary from State to State. Click on Care Topics at the top of the screen, then in the alphabetic list click on M (for Medicaid). You will see a list of old questions and answers, old discussions, and some expert articles. When you have checked those out, scroll along the alphabetic list, past the Medicaid topics, past Medical Equipment and Suppplies, past Medical POA, and you will come to a bunch of topics about Medicare. Have a look at those too, until you get clearer about the differences and the details. Then you may have more detailed questions to ask us. Stick to it, there’s a lot to learn, and it's good background knowledge about possible options.

FB, I want to mention two more things;

There is a website called OutoftheFOG.com. Really good advice for abused "kids" like you.

Just because your dad's relatives and your dad himself think that you should take responsibility for dad's care doesn't make it so.

YOU need to learn to laugh gently and say "I can't possibly do that". And mean it.

No explanation, no excuse. Just "No".

Taking care of dad, in his condition, for 1 hour at home w/o POA is insanity. He's playing you like a fiddle with FOG tactics. Please follow Barbs excellent advice. It's unthinkable to me that a man who treats his daughter like DIRT would even expect for ONE moment she'd do a single caregiving task for him!

Stop visiting him at the NH too. Tell him to call you when he's in the mood to act civilized and you'll see if you can squeeze him in. Enough is enough!

FB, with regard to falls-

My mom fell in a nice AL/MC facility with TWO aides in the room

When we were planning her discharge from the hospital after her hip fracture repair, I told the discharge planner how awful I felt about what had happened.

"Honey", she told me, "my mom fell with THREE RNs in the room. And one of them was me."

I stopped feeling guilty and came to the realization that old people fall. No matter what.

What you say to the social worker is this:

"I am not my father's POA. He does not trust anything I tell him and believes I know nothing about what he needs or how Medicare and Medicaid work.

He also believes he can force me to be his in-home caregiver. I will not be providing care. You nice folks will need to explain his options and figure out how to get him or Medicaid to pay for it."

Tell them this as many times as you need to. You can't access his accounts so you have no idea how much money he has in his name. A financial conservator will need to be appointed to manage his affairs.

It's a real pity that he will need to trust strangers because he won't trust his daughter.

You mention that walking away from your dad would be hard for you to do. It seems as though you have already decided to be there for your dad even though his behavior is unpleasant.

I am glad that you recognize that your father is difficult to deal with, instead of making excuses for him.

Sometimes a person has to become sick and tired of being sick and tired before they are emotionally able to make positive changes in their life.

What do you think will happen if you decide to walk away? What are your biggest fears and concerns?

Wishing you peace as you continue to care for your dad.

Faithful, we have all talked to you many times about all of this, am I right?
I cannot recall now whether or not you are his POA. He is abusive, so I am hoping you are NOT and never agree to be.

Tell the Nursing Home that Dad cannot return home and his doctors all believe that would be an unsafe discharge, that he is abusive to you and you cannot be involved in his care, and that their social workers need NOW to begin work on his safe discharge and a possible transfer to the guardianship of the state.

A state court appointed fiduciary will manage his finances and whether or not he needs/gets financial help. His home will or will not be sold. That will be out of your hands when he has guardianship of the state.

You say that it isn't possible to walk away.
That, of course, is NOT true.
Imagine if your father had no progeny? He would be a-l-o-n-e, and I right? And he can be alone having a daughter also.

When your father is in care it is in your hands how often you visit, but were I you, any visits would not include abuse, as any abusive actions or language would mark the end of said visit.

You are right that you are a regular, and that you ask us the same questions. That's FINE. You are most welcome here. But from me you will always get the same answers.
The choices for your life is in your own hands and you are responsible to make them and no one can make them FOR you, no matter how attached we may be TO you.

You have come quite a way since being on the forum. I think you are on the cusp now of acting for yourself in your best interests. I couldn't care less about dad's future. It will likely be reaping the havest he has sown in his life. I DO care about YOUR future. Please take care.

You should do exactly as JoAnn29 has suggested here. If your father is an unsafe discharge, he belongs in a nursing home. End of story. Let the state place him.

Yes, his house will have to be sold and his assets must be spent-down paying for his care in cash until he becomes Medicaid eligible.

If he has no POA in place and he has made no arrangements to protect his property or assets for his family as he should have, then it would be in your best interests to just let the state take over. Whatever nursing home he gets placed in permanently will petition the court for conservatorship.

I understand you don't want to just walk away. If you wanted to (and I highly suggest you don't) you could petition the court for conservstorship over him and his finances. They will award it to you before a nursing home social worker or a lawyer because you're family.

Then you would be in charge of making all of his decisions including medical and financial.
You would also be answering to the court for all of it if they appoint you.
That's fine and you have nothing to be afraid of.

There will be no inheritance or preservation of assets though. You will be entitled to charge a certain amount for providing your time and services though. The court will tell you how much is allowed.

You have options here.

"Therefore the NH would more than likely take his home to pay for care." A NH nor Medicaid will "take" his home.

If a doctor has said he needs LTC then he should not be discharged. Now is the time to get him placed. You tell the SW he is an "unsafe" discharge". Because of his abuse in the past and now of you, you will not be his caregiver. Because u have no POA, you have no idea what his finances are. You suggest that the State take over his care.

Because Dads SS and any pension he receives goes to his care his house will probably need to be sold. I doubt you want to be responsible for taxes, upkeep and bills. Medicaid will never take the house but they have a say in what happens to it. Upon Dads death, a lien will be placed on it by Medicaid. If there is no spouse or former Caregiver who lives there, the house will need to be sold to satisfy the lean anyway.

Do not take what a SW at a facility says concerning Medicaid. I doubt if they are well versed in it. You can always talk to a Medicaid caseworker. If ur don't find answers there, then consult with an Elder Lawyer.

You need to consult with a Medicaid Planner for his home state. If his doctor says he requires LTC, this is "good" news since this is what most states' Medicaid pays for.

To qualify financially, he will need to spend down his money. Medicaid (and facilities) do not "take" people's home. Medicaid will put a lien on the house that will need to be satisfied when it is sold, or, he sells the home and uses that money to pay for his care. This is the most logical solution, if no other family member is living in the home with him.

If you aren't his PoA, you can still fill out the Medicaid application for him, but you won't be able to sell his home.

Medicare is different than Medicaid and you should do some research online to understand what the difference is if you want to be helpful to this man. Having the right knowlege will help lessen your anxiety. Operating blindly would cause anyone's anxiety to increase. You can talk to an online therapist (Betterhelp.com) to help you work through this situation and find boundaries that keep you healthy.

'He can not afford to stay the NH because he would probably not qualify for Medicare. Therefore the NH would more than likely take his home to pay for care."

Right now, Medicare is paying for rehab, right?

It's Medicaid that will pay for LTC if he qualifies Medically and Financially.

His home is an exempt asset. A Medicaid lien will be placed on it that will need to be satisfied when he dies.

FB, you don't have POA, so there is nothing you can do about any of this

Just visit. Leave when he gets abusive. If the NH sends him home in a cab, call APS and report him as a vulnerable adult. Call 911 when he falls.

I highly doubt they will release him without a plan. Just remember that YOU are not the plan

Yeah I know all about this type of anxiety. I am going through this too. We are trying to get my mother on Medicaid to stay in the NH where she currently is. We are working with a lawyer.

Each situation is different. Find yourself a good eldercare lawyer to advise you. Don’t assume you already know he won’t qualify.

It is worth the money to do this.