If my parents' primary POA has recused himself and I (secondary POA) recuse myself, will the state step in to take care of them?

No one can be forced to be POA. Are you documented as one? I’m not an attorney, but I don’t believe you can be held financially responsible for their debts. If a file has been opened on them by APS, they will hopefully do what is necessary to make them wards of the state.

If I were you,I would consult with an Elder Law Attorney who is familiar with the laws in Texas. He/she can explain what you need to do to recuse yourself from POA, what papers need to be signed and how to deal with APS.

I think you're coming at this from a slightly "off" angle.

As your father and stepmother's POA, you would represent them and act for them. You would in no way be liable to pay for them.

So Medicaid applications, researching care options, organising placements - these are the tasks that need doing, and somebody needs to do them because obviously they can't do it themselves, and the only remaining question is whether you are happy for that to be done by strangers - albeit professional strangers, who know their business and are paid to carry it out - or whether you want to be the person who makes the decisions. As far as there are any decisions to make, that is. The options may be very limited.

So to answer the question - no worries, you can resign your POA, you'd better find out and write down a list of people to notify and then go ahead and do that.

But don't do it simply because you can't fund their care. That is not part of the POA's role.

I can not believe how often these agencies put the responsibility on families. It makes me see red.

You DO NOT NEED TO ACCEPT POA. No one can force you to step in and deal with this situation. I would tell APS that you do not want anything to do with it and it is all them. That's what that agency exists for, they seem to think it's just so they get a paycheck and benefits. Let them know under no uncertain terms you are not going to jump in and rescue these 2 adults. It is a horrid situation but if you are not able, willing or ... then be firm and give it to APS, they should know all the proper procedures to ensure something happens quickly. Yes, the state will assign a guardian and be responsible for them if no one steps up to accept responsibility.

I hope that makes sense.

Thank you all for your feedback. In Texas there is no filial law (thank God) which many states have the require adult children to care for their parents.

Here's the thing. I love my Dad very much. My stepmom too, but she has made things very difficult these last few years and believes they are loaded rich (which they definitely are not). But her resistance of the last few years to let us help them to set a budget, save money, etc has be a huge hurdle and now they literally have very little left. They will be broke soon. They live off social security, have no retirement and don't even have medicaid which I have begging her to let me fill out the paperwork and have her sign a form to apply on their behalf. She refused. So here we are.

Adult Protective Services advised me that they spoke with my parents physician (who has been less than helpful to us until now) and he is now ready to sign off that they are incapable of finances, medical decisions, etc. When he does that I am automatically POA. The APS workers has advised that I must remove the car (which should be done by someone no matter what because my stepmom insists she is allowed to drive), either ensure they have home health care based on the hours the doctor thinks they need (which is costly and part of why their account is almost drained), or place them in a home...all while ensuring all of their medical needs are met, finances are in order etc. So I explained they cannot afford it and she said family will have to step in. But I know we are not obligated. And even if we get them into a home, their mortgage has to be paid until the house sells. The house needs work which will cost money, and they only bought the house about 4 years ago. Based on condition it's not likely they have much if any equity and if they do, it would only pay for a realtor...if that. So managing their living expenses and their bills with their limited funds is not possible.
Again, on top of that I live about 3 hours away, have a full time career and family. I feel selfish in some way, but I cannot manage that situation.

My family and I agree, recusing is probably the best option for them...but I need to know that the state will step in.

Have you specifically asked APS whether Texas would assume care of your parents if you decline to act as proxy?

Well, I asked her if I recused on my stepmom what would happen. (I asked because if I assume POA and have to place her and my dad in a home, she can technically walk out. Though she'd have no place to go, they can't force her stay). All she said was I would need to get legal guardianship of her to force her to stay. But I've spoken to several lawyer friends who say that guardianship is a ton of work, constant reporting all my actions to care for them etc. and that I don't want that...for either of them.

So, essentially, she never answered my question.

Have you seen the papers assigning you POA? Your parents should qualify for Medicaid. Their SS will go to their care. I had a lawyer for Moms house. Medicaid will not allow parents funds to be used on the house. They do not guarantee reimbursement for upkeep on the house. So, I was told not to pay taxes or insurance on the house. If my nephew had not lived there, I would have shut the utilities off. I had Moms house for sale as is.

I hear you, D. These people are masters at the runaround non-answer answers. This is why we suggest getting an attorney. Attorneys know their way around people like this. They are able to get a straight answer when we cannot.

I have seen all the documents and have a copy of the binder. The way it's written is that I am not POA unless they are deemed incompetent which is what their doctor is about to do. That's when I become the POA.
JoAnn29, what about the mortgage? If they still owe on it, how will the mortgage get paid if their SS goes to their care?
Ahmijoy, I just got the call from Adult Protective Services yesterday so I am wrapping my brain around all of this. The kicker is, an attorney costs money. That's why I was hoping to be able to recuse by sending my StepMom and Dad the recusal via certified mail (with signature) and a copy to the APS lady. Not sure if she will be forced to step in then since there is no one else in line.

I believe that no one can be forced to be a POA. Did you sign anything agreeing to be POA if it came to incompetence? If not, I do not see why you could be forced to do this. Just because someone "appoints you", that does not constitute your acceptance. As for officialdom, I found I had to dig, dig, dig, repeat, etc. or ask for a supervisor and do the same. Be very specific "if I refuse, which under the law I can do, what exactly happens then? Step by step, what happens? " When they say "family must step up", ask them to quote the exact law(s) requiring this, then check the references to see what they actually say. When a friend of mine was facing this kind of situation with FIL, they were trying to guilt her, family responsibility, the Waltons, etc. etc. Finally she asked them: "Are you listening? I don't care what happens to the old coot, so lets get down to brass tacks here." She was able to get some straight answers then.

You don't have to accept. www.aplaceformom.com/blog/saying-no-to-the-power-of-attorney-duty/

You don’t want to be POA, I understand that and why. But go ahead and pay the attorney fee so you can get answers and move on otherwise you’re going in circles. It’s better to do that, then be POA or have to deal with nimwits at the agency. As far as the house I agree with the poster...don’t pay taxes, insurance or the mortgage. Let it foreclose since you’re saying it’s not going to give them any equity. That is what they would had to end up doing too. If you don’t have POA you have no authority to sell it.

You're thinking like a responsible person who pays their bills, etc. You tried and appear to continue to try to make them financially responsible, as well. Time to throw the switch. This happens all the time when there are no children to handle things. If the mortgage and is
aren't paid, the bank will handle the sale of the house from there and medicaid will deal with the bank. At this stage, bad credit won't matter. Do what you can live with.

Am I the only one here who feels like you should remain POA at least so you can make sure the father you say you love is well cared for. I'm not talking about financially. I get that you may not have the funds for that but I'm talking about his care. If you let the state take over his care God knows where he will wind up and you'll have no say. Is it hard to manage having a life and caring for your parents affairs...yes but in my opinion you owe them that is they have been good parents. We need to stop acting like we live in a throw away society. We could learn a lot from Japan and how they treat their elders. Why does everyone seem to think it's up to the Government to take care of our responsibilities if things get inconvenient? I would never allow a Government agency to make life decisions for my mother. If you feel guilty now, imagine how you will feel if you go visit your father in a home and it's terrible and the social services says tough cookies you gave up your rights to have an opinion. Take a moment, breath and make a plan. Handle one issue at a time, contact an elder attorney if you need too. If you have no money contact the local senior services in your area and see if they have someone on staff or can refer someone that works free or low cost that can help you make decisions and do paperwork. You say you have a family...talk to your spouse and tell him you need him to support you while you handle all this. Trust me you will feel much better knowing you did what was best for your parents and didn't abdicate your responsibility to strangers.

Before deciding much, you should find out for fact if there is money available to them if the house is sold instead of speculating. Maybe they didn't always make bad choices and put a whole bunch down when they bought it??

You cannot be made POA unless you signed the document. I am for both of my parents and would not reliquish that duty no matter what a PITA it is, and that has nothing to do with who has to pay the bills. It means you get to make decisions on their behalf... if you don't want to do that, even though it means no financial responsibility then recuse it.

The woman who suggests you find and elder law attorney that offers a free consultation is an excellent recommendation. That is what we did and got all our answers straight, and then later did have a little contract work done by them. Still very low cost and high benefit.

There is Medicaid, and in our state an "Elderly Waiver" for those unable to afford a nursing home can be applied for, providing state funding.

Make sure you can live with your decision. Good luck.

You can use parents money for a lawyer. Medicaid allows it. Mortgage, thats tricky. The house would have to be sold to pay it off and whats left goes to parents care. I had a lawyer because of the house. I think it would be a good idea for you. I say this because there was a thread where a house was sold and the mortgage, once satisfied, only left $3000 or so. Medicaid was asking for the full amount. They didn't seem to understand a mortgage was involved. Hence, a lawyer was needed.

DSully, I am so very sorry you are having to go through this. Please do not give up your POA. No matter how much trouble all of this is, you are their voice and if you recluse yourself you no longer have a say in their care even if you don't like something about their care or where they are at, you have no say and your father and step mom have no voice either. However, if both have dementia and Alzheimer's they should already be in a memory care center or nursing home and not living on their own. In these facilities they can not just walk out by themselves. Find a facility that you are comfortable with and put them there and then sell the house or let the house go into foreclosure and go back to the bank. Get rid of the car now before they drive and get lost or may injure or worse yet kill someone else. Take the keys and have someone come with you to their house and take the car to your house and then sell it. Tell them it is making a funny noise and whomever you bought with you is taking to the shop to have it fixed. You can do that with the POA, without POA you would not be able to sell it. If they asked where is the car the "white lie" we told my mom was that she let my nephew borrow it while his car was in the shop and she would say "oh yes, I remember that". She would asked about it over and over and we would say same thing and then we added "well you know his car is a foreign car and they had to order the parts and it takes longer" My mom would say "ok but I hope he gets it fix pretty soon because I need to go to the store". This went on for 2 years, but as time went on she would asked less and less, but before her Alzheimer's advance to a stage that she no longer talks she would every now and then say I need to drive to the store and we would just change the subject. As a POA you only pay the bills out of their funds not your funds if there are any bills that need to be paid, you are not personally responsible for their bills. Once they are admitted to a facility their social security will be set up to go directly to the facility to be used for room and their care. Once their house is gone there really isn't anything you have to pay. Their medications are sent directly to the facility and the facility is billed for their medications. If there is a medication that is not covered and facility reaches out to you for payment, you can deny payment, but if your "parents" do have the funds to cover that you can choose whether or not have to pay that out of their funds only if you want them to have the medication. I am 66 yrs of age and there has been 3 people in my family all who have had or has Alzheimer's and I worry about myself. I surely wouldn't want to the turn over 100% of my care or say to an unknown facility or state on my behalf. I would want to make sure there is someone I trusted to oversee my care. Before you do anything if you are still unsure what to do please do see an elder care attorney the first appointment is usually free.

If the outstanding mortgage on the house exceeds its fair market value ("underwater"), you will need to consider a "short sale." You might want to contact a debtor's or bankruptcy attorney to help you with this. (They will get paid out of the proceeds before the bank, so should not cost you anything.) Basically you ask the bank to take a "deed in lieu" of a foreclosure of the mortgage. It's not a pretty process, but if that's their situation, please stop throwing good money after bad. If they have no equity in the house, then the only reason they are paying the mortgage is to delay foreclosure. The bank will get it all.
If, on the other hand, they have equity in the house AND are still able to live there, consider a reverse mortgage. It's not for everyone, but when elders have run out of all resources except the equity in their home, they can get a reverse mortgage (which will first pay off the original outstanding mortgage), and when they are no longer living there, the home will be sold, the reverse mortgage paid off, and if there is a shortfall, the mortgage company takes the loss. That's one reason the initial fees are so high. They can use the money to pay for care, and to make repairs so the home is suitable for them to remain in.
But you are going to need someone to manage all of this, if not you yourself as their agent under POA, then a court-appointed guardian/conservator. Which itself is a costly and intrusive process. And as others have pointed out, you will no longer have the responsibility, but you won't get to have any input either. What would your Dad want? And are you able to do that for him?

I live in TX also.
No you are not financially liable should you decide to become Guardianship/conservator.
YES, the State will step in to care for them.
That care will be, have the house placed as protected, provided they qualify the State will pay for their care
Once both are deceased, the State will sell the house to recover the money spent to care for them
They will be placed in a Medicare run facility

I have a membership, a lot of people think these businesses are a rip off, with Justanswer.com

Even though my Mother lives in our home State of AZ, the community property laws run pretty much parallel as having been Territorial Law. There are only 9 States that have laws very similar to each other.

I 99.9999% request to discuss my issues with Ray. He is a retired Texas Estate Attorney and has been THE greatest help for me; I've been consulting with him for close to 2.5 yrs now anticipating the moment I would finally be the one to take care of Mom.

For me, it's worth the $46 a month. You can have him call you @$59 and talk as long as needed. You can ask questions as often as needed via the website. If he doesn't have the answer within 10 minutes, he'll let you know and he researches everything. I have waited up to a day to get an answer, he provided chapter and verse under AZ law for me.

YOU do not have ANY financial obligation to them.

If the state takes over their care, you will have no say over where they are placed. The state will put them in one of the nursing homes on their list, some of them may not be as nice or as competent as one you would pick yourself. I imagine this seems like a huge undertaking, but I don’t think it would be for too long. Once they are placed and Medicaid is applied for, then you contact the bank so they can take back the house.

DSully,

Being your parents POA does not make you responsible for funding their care. As POA you would be responsible for handling their affairs.

The suggestion from APS for the family to step up might have been in a financial sense. But, it could have just meant to step up and handle their affairs.

If you want no part of being POA you do need to see an Elder Care Attorney, take the POA document with you and resign the duty. Let the Attorney notify all parties. You do need to see an attorney ASAP.

If your Stepmom has been or will be soon deemed incompetent she shouldn’t be allowed to walk out of a facility AFTER she has been declared incompetent to make her own decisions.

Contact Dept of Public Safety, where you get your drivers license renewed, they can assist in getting Stepmoms drivers license revoked, definitely after the Dr issues the letter, possibly before.

DSully,

DO NOT sign any documents regarding placing your parents in a facility! There may be wording in these documents that will attempt to hold you financially responsible!

Even if they still have a mortgage, they must have some equity in the house. If they go into a care facility, yes SS will go to their care. However, house can be sold and mortgage discharged. Think you will have to "spend down " any profit from house sale( like use toward future burial costs) Rest of any profit would go to care costs. Ask elder law attorney for specifics.

I had a busting household when I rescued mthr 6 years ago. The child who was a senior in hs at the time had a lot of resentment that I spent so much time with the grandmthr he never liked. I totally understand and support you if you chose to decline to serve as POA. But you do lose any control.

The state does not want to take over as guardian because of the expense to the state. However, as good taxpayers, we did pay in and can receive those benefits. If you allow the state to take over, there is nothing to prevent the parents from being moved to the farthest corner of rural Texas where they could be 6 hours from you instead of 3. Do you want to have them close where you can visit?

If you do want them close, you can hire a care manager to make things happen. As POA, you are able to assign limited duties to others, like moving them into a medicaid funded home. If sMIL is uncooperative, you might have to get guardianship of her, and simply have POA over dad. I'm sure APS will be helpful with you obtaining guardianship to get her off their caseload. They can file the guardianship papers and ask for you to be assigned guardianship, in which case since they are filing you would not have to pay for the atty or the filing fee.

Hello, DSully. I think the best advice you have received here so far is to consult an attorney. Any lawyer I've ever dealt with has provided a consultation at no charge. Then consider the options they present and go from there with making your decisions. You'll need to weigh how much "control" you want to sacrifice over your parents' situation. If you want to visit them, indeed it could be far away from you. Or not. Regarding the finances, be VERY careful not to sign anything that might hold you liable financially. That happened to me in relation to her first assisted living facility. Mom had difficulty physically signing for herself because of a hand impediment, so the director of the facility advised me to sign her name and initials on her behalf. He told me that because Mom was present and gave her approval, it was like she was signing for herself. For much of the document it was OK, but there was one signature line they did not explain was different! (Oh, the mistakes we make under stress.) I was desperate to have Mom in what I thought would be a decent place. I was not POA at that time. Bottom line is that she had a long wait until Medicaid came through, and the facility held me personally responsible for all of the payments not covered by SSA and her small pension. As it turned out, we got her into a much nicer place eventually and she was happy. DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING financial unless you have spoken with an attorney first and it seems wise! But do consider maintaining the POA if you want to have some say over what happens to your loved ones. If either parent was a veteran, the VA may help through their aid and attendance program also. Please look into that if they might be eligible and if you choose to handle it after all. Good luck.