I signed the paperwork when my dad was discharged from hospital to skilled nursing. But my mom and sister question every single decision but offer no suggestions. I just want to be out of it and let them do whatever they want.
This is yesterday's update from the OP, buried amid other responses:
"Hi,
Thanks for responding. My father didn't actually choose a POA. He and my mom have always kept their finances separate. She knew nothing regarding what monthly bills he had. I asked him if he wanted me to take care of paying his bills and he said yes, so we had the hospital palliative care notary to administer and notarize the document. My father is bedridden and incontinent. He did not qualify for Medicaid because my mom has significant assets that contribute to the household. But she is so stingy she does not want to pay for his nursing home care. Instead she wants to bring him home...even though she cannot physically care for him. She is just cheap. She says she's his wife and should be making all decisions. I'm fine with letting her."
This much more complicated than just buttinski family. If dad's NH bills don't get paid he will be made a ward of the state. The state will them sue mom and she will have NO protection from impoverishment.
An eldercare attorney needs to be consulted...yesterday.
Your father gave you POA because he trusted you to make the best decisions in his best interests. This gives you the right to tell your mother and your sister to butt out; but letting them do whatever they want is kind of the *opposite* of the original idea.
What sort of decisions are you having to grapple with? What's your relationship with mom and sister normally like?
You could decide not to exercise your POA and just keep it for really important decisions. You could put your decisions in writing to your family and give them a few days, if time allows, to comment. If they do not comment, then go ahead with your decision. In planning an outing or event for him, I would just call them. If he needs a surgical procedure, go with the doctor and your Dads wishes. Set up a system with family on how things will proceed. Put it in writing and have it notarized. Or, have your Attorney write it up. Sometimes doing less is more with family.
I would talk to the Social Worker at the SNF about getting someone to show your mom that she WILL lose her assets unless she gets to an eldercare attorney NOW.
Think of why your father chose you as his POA, he entrusted you with this. If you chose to remain as his POA make it known to his LOs that you take this position seriously. If you choose not to keep the POA & your father is of sound mind, speak with him about it. If he's not, then consult an elder attorney about the steps needed to resign or turn it over to someone else.
You can simply write a letter of resignation and get a notarized signature. But, before you take that step, really give some thought as to whether that is what you really want to do and also if doing so is in your Dad’s best interests if that is a relevant factor to you. No one can force you to serve as POA but it does sound like your father needs someone to step up. Have you tried telling your mother and sister how you feel? They either need to do the job you are doing (if your father named either of them as successor POA) or support you - or agree to pay an attorney who specializes in estate planning and elder care to sort this out. Then they can complain to the attorney as much as they like for a fee.
If you were designated as POA by your father, you should check to see if he named anyone else as successor POA. That is standard practice. You cannot decide who takes over for you. Only your father has the authority to decide who can serve as his POA.
ReneeMarie: The answer to your query will depend on whether your father has the mental capacity if you will to appoint another PoA. Also, on your notarized Power of Attorney document, there should include the name of the alternate PoA.
When arranging a POA, there should be a provision for an alternate POA, or even 2 alternates, to step up if the primary POA is "unable or unwilling to serve." If your father's paperwork does not include alternate POA's, is he still cognitively able to agree to that amandment?
This depends on whether your father is still ‘with you’, but if he is, ask him what he wants to do. If he still wants you to do the work, then ask him to talk to mother and sister, tell them that he wants you to make the decisions, and ask them to lay off with the back-seat driving. If possible, he sorts it out with them, and gets you out of the firing line.
Your family dynamics are unknown (are your parents still married?) to forum readers so it's hard to tell what kind of pushback you're getting and why. Dad trusted you to look out for him because he didn't trust them. Are you sure you cannot do so? If you want out, read some of the other suggestions. Or you could try to take control of the situation in a different way. I was POA for both parents and I have 3 squabbling siblings who live far away. Proactive communication was key to my success. To avoid their constant criticism, I kept them informed via group text messaging regarding health issues (with parent approval) and key decisions that I made on behalf of my parent(s) at their request. I did not ask for their permission or feedback prior to making decisions. I acted solely based on the wishes of my parent(s). Sometimes I didn't agree with a parent, but it was their choice and I was there to support them. I remained available to my siblings if they called or replied to the group text to ask questions. I shared what I could with them without overriding my parent's wishes. But I was firm in my decision at the time (one can always change their mind later if the circumstances require it).
When my terminally ill father-in-law wanted his son and me ... daughter-in-law ... to be guardians ... different from a poa of course ... for his wife in a memory care facility we went to court to make change. He paid costs.
I think all you need to do is write an official letter of resignation and give it to the person for whom you are a POA. But then who will take over? I would discuss this with your family and tell them unless things change (state circumstances that are acceptable for you to stay), you are quitting and THEY WILL NEED TO TAKE OVER. I bet they leave you alone.
i’m sure everyone already answered you, but just in case, i answer too.
—to remove yourself from POA (medical POA or financial POA), you don’t need to do anything. POA does not create an —obligation — for you to make decisions for your father. POA gives you the — opportunity — to make decisions for him if you want to.
—to remove yourself, it’s better to say it clearly to your father, mother + sister.
—you CAN’T appoint someone else (for example your mother/sister) to be POA. ONLY your father can do that, if he’s mentally competent and if he wants that: he must sign a new POA.
—if no one in the family makes medical/financial decisions for your father…he’ll have a hard time. (if he’s mentally incompetent, family members can seek guardianship in court: takes time/costly). if family doesn’t, and the situation seems dangerous for your father, the State will become the guardian.
i don't know at all your situation. but please don't leave your father in skilled nursing, without having any PLAN B, about who will look out for him (since you want out).
remove yourself -- but with caution, small steps.
moreover, you said your mother/sister question everything you do. (and you want out) ...if they want in (want to take care of your father's best interests, and you feel that's a good idea), then help your mother/sister get the equipment/legal documents, to achieve that.
for example, let's say mother/sister want your father back home (you said they're questioning all your decisions. so maybe they're also questioning your decision to sign the discharge papers from hospital to skilled nursing)...
if your mother/sister want your father back home (and you feel that's actually a good idea, and could work out), then make things easier for them. you are POA now. you can help sign the papers to get your father out.
you want to remove yourself -- ok. but make the situation easier/better, as good as possible, for your father's best interests.
if your father stays in skilled nursing, he also needs an advocate, POA, etc...
don't create a situation, where you leave your father in skilled nursing (or anywhere; his own home, etc), without anyone in his corner to fight for him, if necessary.
Try not to get too defensive about it...they just want to understand what is going on. On that note however, this is a thankless job and more times than not it causes friction with other family members, but someone has to do it, someone has to make sensible decisions in the best interest of your father. We all need that one person...
Now if they start with the "you should have done this or that", politely tell them that this is not an easy job and you are making the best decisions you can with the information you have at the time. Tell them you're not looking for backseat drivers, but you can hand over the reins should they be interested...
Agree with what others have said/explained, but there are a few additional points to consider.
An actual durable POA for financial AND medical -- if properly witnesses and notarized in according to the state law/rules where you live AND if he was competent at the time he signed such docs (NOT diagnosed with dementia prior to signing) -- does not require you to serve. Next steps: 1) get back with the attorney who drafted said docs OR 2) find a competent elder care attorney to engage (with your dad's funds, not yours) to see what he/she advises based on the circumstances and what your state law/rules require.
You may have other docs too (Advanced Directive for medical decisions to serve as his "medical agent" when he cannot make such decisions, and of course a Will or Trust documents) that also may come into play that may or may not require revisions (again depending on his competency status and his choices).
The fact that mom and sis were NOT appointed for this role is important for the current or a new attorney to understand as well as other circumstances. Are mom and dad still legally married? What is the status of any of their home, is that were dad lived prior to his hospitalization and nursing home placement (there are potential spousal impoverishment considerations to protect this asset for your mom to work out). Were there ever concerns about his financial and/or medical well being if either mom or sis were given such responsibilities/rights? Was adult protective services every involved?
Many legal docs of this type (POA, Will, Advanced Directive, Trust docs) name a primary and then one or more secondary individuals to take over if the primary cannot handle the task or chooses to not handle the task. Sound like this may not be included in any paperwork executive for your dad, something to consider with any new docs.
And then each state has "guardianship" options whereby someone else (NOT a direct family member) is given the role of making financial and medical decisions if dad is NOT competent. Some states allow the nursing home to take on this role as sadly many elderly individuals have absolutely no one left in their family to take on such responsiblities.
If there was a law firm/attorney involved in the drafting of the various docs, that firm/attorney if one does exists could also help you navigate the guardianship option in your state OR the nursing home assuming they are (Medicare/Medicaid) approved could also help, especially if dad is already on Medicaid long term care coverage OR if he is in a spend down pathway to qualify for Medicaid.
If your dad did not engage an elder care lawyer/firm to handle this, I would recommend getting one in place ASAP so any next steps are within the scope and requirements of your state law/rules. You might want to call the head of the business office person or person in charge of Medicaid qualification at your dad's nursing home for recommendations of elder care lawyers. Do the same with the social workers at his prior hospital and perhaps contact Adult Protective Services where you live and ask the same.
Typically, there is a small set of firms/lawyers in this elder care space (more focused on POAs, Advanced Directive, Medicaid qualification, guardianship issues rather that typical Wills Trust and Estate firms more focused on "estate planning"). The former group -- those focused on POAs, Advanced Directives, Medicaid qualification and guardianship) of firms or lawyers is the one you want to check out. Many will have a flat fee for such work and that should be paid from your dad's resources. In my area those flat fees range from about ($7K to $12K minimum). If there are not funds of this level, you may just want to start with Adult Protective Services to find a pro bono or legal aid type help.
Good luck with all this. It is not much fun. Keep records of absolutely everything.
Are you speaking of being a medical POA? Not a financial and legal POA? Or did your Dad appoint you as his POA some time ago to do ALL work for him, legal, financial and medical? If you are speaking of Medical it is really quite easy. Just tell whomever calls you regarding him that you no longer wish to serve as his POA and that they should call his next of kin, which I assume is his wife, your Mom. Right now, at this moment, if you are being called upon to make medical decisions you can tell whomever is asking you to make them, to sign them or to WHATEVER them, that you cannot make this decision, that you would defer at this time and suggest that they contact his next of kin, his wife. You can, when Dad is out of the hospital and out of skilled nursing, go to an attorney and resign as his POA, appoint your Mother or sister. Is this the first time you have been called upon to act in your Dad's behalf? Is he able to express his wishes? If so, are you not able to tell your Sis and Mom that you are acting in your Dad's best interests, for him, as he wishes you to act for him? I am sorry you didn't understand more about this duty before assuming it. In the midst of an acute hospitalization and a transferring to SNF or rehabilitative care is really the least favorable time to resign this position. I am sorry you are all going through so much dissension. Just know that acute hospitalization and rehab is difficult for all families. I wish you the best, and hope your father has a good healing process.
You actually went thru a lawyer? If so and Dad is competent ask that the he revoke you and assign sister or Mom. If he is not comfortable doing that, then tell him to tell Mom and sis that you are in charge of his care and they need to but out.
If Dad was not competent (Dementia) when u signed the paperwork, its not good anyway. He has to understand what he was signing.
I see no one has answered your question, which is how to remove yourself from POA. Was the POA witnessed by an attorney's office? If so, contact them and tell them you want to resign your POA. Any expenses incurred from this should come out of your father's funds, NOT yours.
You don't say how old your mom and dad are, but I'm 63 and my son is my PoA, not my husband, because I want a person younger than me to be my representative. This is assuming that I won't need the help of my PoA for another 10 or more years. I don't want my PoA to pass before me or be too impaired or infirmed themselves. So your mom is probably not the best person in general.
I agree with the comment that everyone needs to give this time since everything about his health issues and the PoA arrangement are new territory. I have been an employer for many years. I was always glad to get constructive criticism from employees along with their thoughts on a solution. Criticism alone is a waste of time. Maybe clarify some boundaries with your mom and sister and let them know that you're ok with their input but only if they can offer a better solution that is realistic ("put up or shut up"). Also, it's possible their pride is a little hurt that they weren't chosen as the PoA -- but that's their problem, not yours. May you gain much wisdom and peace in your heart as you grow into this responsibility.
Toughen up. Often the person closest to the patient (your mom) is the wrong person to hold POA because they're too emotional. There'a reason why Sis didn't get it either, so I think Dad wants YOU because you have a better head on your shoulders.
I assume you care about Dad and want to respect his wishes. His wish is for you to watch out for him, so practice selective deafness with Mom and Sis if need be and be there for Dad.
Otherwise, you are not required to be POA if you don't want to be. If he's not competent to give it to someone else, then life will be a lot tougher for him.
If your father selected you rather than your mother and sister, you might want to focus on his care needs rather than what your mother and sister question or care about or suggest or don’t suggest.
Your “signing off” will not simplify providing for his care needs and can make his care more complicated than it is now.
If you practice, can you learn to ignore their input and base your decisions on your own research and the input of other experts? He chose you for a reason. Maybe he knew and expected that you could make better decisions regarding his care than they.
Remember, the legal right to make his decisions has been given BY HIM, to YOU. Their opinions are meaningless.
Think this through, and be sure that you make the best decision for YOU and FOR HIM. no matter what they say, nothing really counts except YOUR DECISIONS.
"Hi,
Thanks for responding. My father didn't actually choose a POA. He and my mom have always kept their finances separate. She knew nothing regarding what monthly bills he had. I asked him if he wanted me to take care of paying his bills and he said yes, so we had the hospital palliative care notary to administer and notarize the document. My father is bedridden and incontinent. He did not qualify for Medicaid because my mom has significant assets that contribute to the household. But she is so stingy she does not want to pay for his nursing home care. Instead she wants to bring him home...even though she cannot physically care for him. She is just cheap. She says she's his wife and should be making all decisions. I'm fine with letting her."
This much more complicated than just buttinski family. If dad's NH bills don't get paid he will be made a ward of the state. The state will them sue mom and she will have NO protection from impoverishment.
An eldercare attorney needs to be consulted...yesterday.
What sort of decisions are you having to grapple with?
What's your relationship with mom and sister normally like?
Does your mother have cognitive issues?
If you were designated as POA by your father, you should check to see if he named anyone else as successor POA. That is standard practice. You cannot decide who takes over for you. Only your father has the authority to decide who can serve as his POA.
If anyone else is in line for POA let them know you no longer are willing to be POA.
Your not obligated to do anything you don’t want to.
all very simple.
—to remove yourself from POA (medical POA or financial POA), you don’t need to do anything. POA does not create an —obligation — for you to make decisions for your father. POA gives you the — opportunity — to make decisions for him if you want to.
—to remove yourself, it’s better to say it clearly to your father, mother + sister.
—you CAN’T appoint someone else (for example your mother/sister) to be POA. ONLY your father can do that, if he’s mentally competent and if he wants that: he must sign a new POA.
—if no one in the family makes medical/financial decisions for your father…he’ll have a hard time. (if he’s mentally incompetent, family members can seek guardianship in court: takes time/costly). if family doesn’t, and the situation seems dangerous for your father, the State will become the guardian.
wishing your father well, you, your whole family.
i don't know at all your situation.
but please don't leave your father in skilled nursing, without having any PLAN B, about who will look out for him (since you want out).
remove yourself -- but with caution, small steps.
moreover, you said your mother/sister question everything you do.
(and you want out)
...if they want in (want to take care of your father's best interests, and you feel that's a good idea), then help your mother/sister get the equipment/legal documents, to achieve that.
for example,
let's say mother/sister want your father back home (you said they're questioning all your decisions. so maybe they're also questioning your decision to sign the discharge papers from hospital to skilled nursing)...
if your mother/sister want your father back home (and you feel that's actually a good idea, and could work out), then make things easier for them. you are POA now. you can help sign the papers to get your father out.
you want to remove yourself -- ok. but make the situation easier/better, as good as possible, for your father's best interests.
if your father stays in skilled nursing, he also needs an advocate, POA, etc...
don't create a situation, where you leave your father in skilled nursing (or anywhere; his own home, etc), without anyone in his corner to fight for him, if necessary.
Now if they start with the "you should have done this or that", politely tell them that this is not an easy job and you are making the best decisions you can with the information you have at the time. Tell them you're not looking for backseat drivers, but you can hand over the reins should they be interested...
An actual durable POA for financial AND medical -- if properly witnesses and notarized in according to the state law/rules where you live AND if he was competent at the time he signed such docs (NOT diagnosed with dementia prior to signing) -- does not require you to serve. Next steps: 1) get back with the attorney who drafted said docs OR 2) find a competent elder care attorney to engage (with your dad's funds, not yours) to see what he/she advises based on the circumstances and what your state law/rules require.
You may have other docs too (Advanced Directive for medical decisions to serve as his "medical agent" when he cannot make such decisions, and of course a Will or Trust documents) that also may come into play that may or may not require revisions (again depending on his competency status and his choices).
The fact that mom and sis were NOT appointed for this role is important for the current or a new attorney to understand as well as other circumstances. Are mom and dad still legally married? What is the status of any of their home, is that were dad lived prior to his hospitalization and nursing home placement (there are potential spousal impoverishment considerations to protect this asset for your mom to work out). Were there ever concerns about his financial and/or medical well being if either mom or sis were given such responsibilities/rights? Was adult protective services every involved?
Many legal docs of this type (POA, Will, Advanced Directive, Trust docs) name a primary and then one or more secondary individuals to take over if the primary cannot handle the task or chooses to not handle the task. Sound like this may not be included in any paperwork executive for your dad, something to consider with any new docs.
And then each state has "guardianship" options whereby someone else (NOT a direct family member) is given the role of making financial and medical decisions if dad is NOT competent. Some states allow the nursing home to take on this role as sadly many elderly individuals have absolutely no one left in their family to take on such responsiblities.
If there was a law firm/attorney involved in the drafting of the various docs, that firm/attorney if one does exists could also help you navigate the guardianship option in your state OR the nursing home assuming they are (Medicare/Medicaid) approved could also help, especially if dad is already on Medicaid long term care coverage OR if he is in a spend down pathway to qualify for Medicaid.
If your dad did not engage an elder care lawyer/firm to handle this, I would recommend getting one in place ASAP so any next steps are within the scope and requirements of your state law/rules. You might want to call the head of the business office person or person in charge of Medicaid qualification at your dad's nursing home for recommendations of elder care lawyers. Do the same with the social workers at his prior hospital and perhaps contact Adult Protective Services where you live and ask the same.
Typically, there is a small set of firms/lawyers in this elder care space (more focused on POAs, Advanced Directive, Medicaid qualification, guardianship issues rather that typical Wills Trust and Estate firms more focused on "estate planning"). The former group -- those focused on POAs, Advanced Directives, Medicaid qualification and guardianship) of firms or lawyers is the one you want to check out. Many will have a flat fee for such work and that should be paid from your dad's resources. In my area those flat fees range from about ($7K to $12K minimum). If there are not funds of this level, you may just want to start with Adult Protective Services to find a pro bono or legal aid type help.
Good luck with all this. It is not much fun. Keep records of absolutely everything.
If you are speaking of Medical it is really quite easy. Just tell whomever calls you regarding him that you no longer wish to serve as his POA and that they should call his next of kin, which I assume is his wife, your Mom. Right now, at this moment, if you are being called upon to make medical decisions you can tell whomever is asking you to make them, to sign them or to WHATEVER them, that you cannot make this decision, that you would defer at this time and suggest that they contact his next of kin, his wife.
You can, when Dad is out of the hospital and out of skilled nursing, go to an attorney and resign as his POA, appoint your Mother or sister.
Is this the first time you have been called upon to act in your Dad's behalf? Is he able to express his wishes? If so, are you not able to tell your Sis and Mom that you are acting in your Dad's best interests, for him, as he wishes you to act for him?
I am sorry you didn't understand more about this duty before assuming it. In the midst of an acute hospitalization and a transferring to SNF or rehabilitative care is really the least favorable time to resign this position.
I am sorry you are all going through so much dissension. Just know that acute hospitalization and rehab is difficult for all families. I wish you the best, and hope your father has a good healing process.
If Dad was not competent (Dementia) when u signed the paperwork, its not good anyway. He has to understand what he was signing.
I agree with the comment that everyone needs to give this time since everything about his health issues and the PoA arrangement are new territory. I have been an employer for many years. I was always glad to get constructive criticism from employees along with their thoughts on a solution. Criticism alone is a waste of time. Maybe clarify some boundaries with your mom and sister and let them know that you're ok with their input but only if they can offer a better solution that is realistic ("put up or shut up"). Also, it's possible their pride is a little hurt that they weren't chosen as the PoA -- but that's their problem, not yours. May you gain much wisdom and peace in your heart as you grow into this responsibility.
I assume you care about Dad and want to respect his wishes. His wish is for you to watch out for him, so practice selective deafness with Mom and Sis if need be and be there for Dad.
Otherwise, you are not required to be POA if you don't want to be. If he's not competent to give it to someone else, then life will be a lot tougher for him.
Your “signing off” will not simplify providing for his care needs and can make his care more complicated than it is now.
If you practice, can you learn to ignore their input and base your decisions on your own research and the input of other experts? He chose you for a reason. Maybe he knew and expected that you could make better decisions regarding his care than they.
Remember, the legal right to make his decisions has been given BY HIM, to YOU. Their opinions are meaningless.
Think this through, and be sure that you make the best decision for YOU and FOR HIM. no matter what they say, nothing really counts except YOUR DECISIONS.