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About 3 days ago my Mum suddenly stopped wanting to eat. This came completely out of the blue. Day before she was happy, we went for our evening walk, I cut her hair and styled it and we were laughing listening to old songs, dancing. She was able to read and we were having normal conversations. The next day she was completely different. It’s like a black cloud was hovering over.


I can’t tell what’s going on. I’ve asked her if she’s having pain with her dentures, if her tummy hurts, if she’s having trouble with swallowing, if her stools are alright. I did noticed she did a number 2 today.


Nevertheless, everything I offer her, she only has a bite or 2 and then puts it down. She finds faults with everything! It’s either too hard, too soft, old, too cold, too hot etc. Today I asked if we’d order her favourite pizza to try entice her. She said “yes, that could be good, I’m a bit hungry”. I said “ are you sure if I order, you won’t just put it aside” and she replied with “no, I think pizza will be good”. Next thing the pizza arrives and I plate it only for her to put it aside. On prompting her she finally blurts “it’s cold”. I warm it up in the microwave,.. then she says “it’s old, I’m not eating old pizza”.


At this stage I'm fuming inside while trying to explain to her that it literally just arrived from the pizza store but nothing I say prevails. She starts to pull it apart and make a mess of it at which stage it’s definitely no longer appealing to then turn around and say “look at it, it’s terrible”. She does know how to eat considering she has a bite or two before rejecting.


I'm lost for words,... what is going on?!?


She pulls the same face that you would if you were utterly full or having something gross put in front of your face so I’m wondering if there’s some kind of gag reflect going on.


No no matter how much I ask, she doesn’t tell me anything that would give me an idea. She just mutters that nothing is wrong.


Her behaviour in general has been off the last last couple days. Today when I went to put the seatbelt around her in the car and leant over, she went to bite my arm while making a growling noise. It wasn’t hard, more like a play bite but still odd. When I asked her why she would do that, it seems to have been protective motivated. She said “well you were pushing me!”. I replied saying “no, I was not pushing you, I leant across". But yes odd. She also spat the mouthful of pizza at me while at the same time she loves complaining of any ants near where she sits. There are a few ants and that’s coz she keep dropping crumbs.


Is it possible for dementia to suddenly change / advance like this OR is something else possibly going on I should be investigating? I’ll try take her to doctor but so far she’s not interested.


I’ll try make some protein smoothie tomorrow but just looking for ideas.
she often had a re-occurring UTI.

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Call her doctor and report this sudden change, especially the new aggressive behavior.

Get her urine cultured asap.
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Supplements like Boost and Ensure were made for times like this, they are a good way to keep her calorie count up while you try to figure out what is going on.
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UTI always an option when behavior changes. If it's not that, I guess she needs some blood work or something since those are pretty drastic changes.
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Cappuccino42 Oct 2021
Yup, I’ve got another Telehealth appointment for her tomorrow. Frustrating that it’s not face to face. She was only on antibiotics 3 weeks ago or so. It’s a constant battle as her bladder doesn’t fully empty. She has daily supplements to try avoid UTI. We wash everyday down there and try change the depends often.
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My mother is in the same vein. She takes a bite or two, then says save it for tomorrow. Her weight has dropped from 122 to 105. Lately, I just ask her what she wants and get it for her,. If she doesnt eat it, I usually do. I just wait for her to say she is hungry and give her what is available.
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Cappuccino42 Oct 2021
It’s just so frustrating. Mum says she’s hungry,.. asks for something. Then puts it aside
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I'm coming back to add a cautionary note - lack of appetite and weight loss that isn't associated with end of life isn't something to just shrug off, it can lead to frailty, which leads to falls, which leads to inability to ambulate independently, which leads to a huge increase in the burden for the caregiver.
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Cappuccino42 Oct 2021
Yes agree,..
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Let's not forget that as we age we can lose our sense of taste. I am in my mid-70's and I am noticing that myself. At least chocolate still taste the same :)

One thing, as we age we tend to crave sugary items because we can still enjoy the sweet taste. I remember my Mom's grocery list back when she was in her late 80's and into her 90's. Fudge ripple ice cream... Little Debbie's treats ... a pie ... chocolate chip cupcakes every week. Dad was happy with those items, too.

Oh, the UTI, I remember when my Dad had it, he was seeing ants in his food and ants climbing up the wall. All that went away once he was treated for the UTI.
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Cappuccino42 Oct 2021
Yes I did notice that a couple years ago with Mum too. She used to be a health freak eating lots of veggies etc and then it became all about ice cream, pastries and biscuits. The problem is that not even those entice now. Not even her favourite pastries. There’s a high chance it’s UTI related, she was only on antibiotics 3 or so weeks ago! How healthy is it to consume them again?
in normal conditions, she’d have a lot of cranberry juice and daily UTI suppression supplement. The problem is her bladder doesn’t empty properly (this was being investigated pre dementia and she went on a waiting list for an operation. Fast forward to now,.. I’m not sure if they’d operate anymore AND now she’s incontinent.
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Cappucino, any update on mom?
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Cappuccino42 Oct 2021
No,..she asked for a coffee and some brobiotic youghurt drink and as soon as I gave them to her,.. down on the table they went and forgotten about. Sigh,...
when a slightly pointed them out she picked up the spoon she’d earlier removed from her coffee and said “this spoon is terribly dirty”. I said yes off course it’s dirty now as it’s been in the coffee and you took it out 5mins ago. Now she thinks a dirty spoon has been in her coffee. Can’t win,.... grrrr.
I think this could be UTI related to an extent but she was only on antibiotics few weeks ago. She regurlarly has Ural and I try keep her hydration up but it just doesn’t help. Her bladder does not empty fully so is prone for constant infections. She was on the operation waiting list pre dementia but I’m not sure they’d operate anymore ,....
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You might try asking what she would like to eat, and if possible let her make it as much as she is capable (gathering ingredients, mixing, or plating). Alternatively, you could set out a variety of foods and let her choose like a smorgasboard.
Some personal involvement could stimulate the appetite or at least feel like a worthy achievement to warrant consumption.
I'm thinking she may be feeling helpless and despondent, but I can relate to the frustration of being uncommunicative.
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Cappuccino42 Oct 2021
I tried at the shops today to get things that could be left out for a bit longer as well as smoothie ingredients and drinking youghurt. The drinking youghurt seemed to go down a treat so at least I’ve got some calories in her. She was with me at the shops while I tried asking her what she’d like. But she wasn’t keen on even the typical stuff that she’d normally want. She eyed out a quiche so we bought that. She ate maybe 5 mouthfuls of that and the rest she left. I had to push the 4th and 5th mouthful.
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I see mom has a telemed visit tomorrow-- great!

As to taking antibiotics so often, I don't see that letting a UTI go untreated in an elder is wise. Even on Hospice, UTIs are generally treated, because they wreak such havoc in elders and can lead to sepsis and death.

What sort of surgery? Is it an outpatient procedure?
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Cappuccino42 Oct 2021
I’m not exactly sure as this was pre-dementia and fully her own initiative. I just recall dropping her off at the women’s hospital a few times for some appointments. She had a translater there as she wanted to do some more private things on her own (me being her daughter). She didn’t want me translating more personal down there questions I guess, the same way I wouldn’t exactly want my Mum in the room if I were having a pap :) I just recently saw a text from the hospital confirming she’s still on the (public) wait list. I know she had the typical slight incontinence of what most women have as she was wearing pads prior to depends. But I also remember at one stage her mentioning about cysts and her bladder not emptying properly. She actually already had a unsuccessful surgery for slight incontinence back ages ago, maybe 20 yrs ago.

But yes Telehealth appointment tomorrow and I’ll push the doc for some more ongoing help. Honestly though,.. I wish it were a face to face appt and that samples were done. I’ll see if I can just pick up the container from the chemist and take it in for testing, provided the doc writes the lab request.

I managed to get her to have some drinking youghurt (I’m offering that to her as a drink) because at least that will give her some calories. And I got some custard and smoothie products that I was thinking of mixing with some protein.
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This kind of quick behaviour change makes me think about delirium, which can be caused by an infection, dehydration, imbalances in the body, medications, all kinds of things. If it is delirium, it can become a medical emergency, so it's good that you have an appointment booked ASAP. I hope you both get some relief very soon!
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Cappuccino42 Oct 2021
Thank you. Makes things harder when Mum is not so keen on medical help. Or I should say she wants the help for her ailments but she doesn’t like doctors or hospitals. It’s like she expects me to be the doctor, which clearly I’m not. The last time she was in hospital, the doctor kindly reminded me to evaluate the next time if she actually wanted to go to hospital. Mum did want help at the time but as soon as she was better she was eager to get home ASAP, lol. When I booked her Telehealth appointment before, Mum instantly sighed! But when I assured her it was just to get some medicine she was ok. She’s such a grump at times.
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Lots of possible answers
UTI can cause a sudden change in behavior
Mini stroke can cause a change and a rapid decline

She might not be able to give you an answer as to what is wrong because she does not know herself.
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Cappuccino42 Oct 2021
Something just occurred to me,.. few days ago as she was exiting the shower she felt dizzy and nauseous. I got her a bucket and asked if we needed to call for help but she didn’t want it. However it passed within 5-10mins. Now I’m wondering if she had a mini stroak. Because I notice her walking down the stairs is a little more difficult as well. I actually just asked her moments ago if her knee was bothering her again but she said her knee was ok or same. I say this because last time when she did go into hospital she was suspected of having had a stroak (similar characteristics of nausea, dizziness and had high blood pressure). However, the tests came back clear. I have her Telehealth appointment tomorrow so I will query.
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UPDATE: the doc gave her antibiotics for the UTI and that we’ll take a sample to the clinic for further anylysis. However, I think there’s more to it here and I will address that when we take in the sample. The more it seems she’s having trouble swallowing. She seems to need drink to wash down any food bites. I managed to get her to eat half a banana and some blueberries. When she took her daily UTI prevention supplement she commented “oh that went down the wrong path”. And she seems to make an effort when swallowing. So I’m thinking a few days ago she had a bout of dizziness and nausea after a shower. Perhaps there was a mini stroke involved.
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A UTI can cause some of the symptoms, which I am sure you know from before and it seems to come with a bad temper! However the swallowing issue reminds me of my mother who had Lewy Bodies Dementia. She would have bouts of refusing to eat and had difficulty swallowing. It isn't just this type of dementia that causes this issue. It is one of the more worrying things though as the elderly get thin easily. It can come and go.

We were desperate with my mother but there was a reluctance to give a liquid feed as she was paranoid (as the illness progressed) and would not tolerate intervention.
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Drinking cranberry juice is not enough to stop UTIs. You need to get cranberry capsules and take them daily to make the walls of bladder slippery so that infection cannot set in.
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Sounds like you have two issues going on here. Reluctance to eat could be dysphasia and fear of choking. My Mom has this and it's difficult to swallow thin liquids like tea or water but the hospital gave her a water thickener and her throat could handle it. Seems counter-intuitive but mushy food like meat loaf, mashed potato she can enjoy.

You also have a significant behavior change and I agree with folks about UTIs. My Mom was literally raving during a bout. If urine is normal, I'd chat to your doctor about antidepressants or anti anxiety meds. Violent behavior tends to escalate. My Mom screamed in my face for three days and eyed up the kitchen knives saying that if there wouldn't be repercussions, she would slit our throats. She was sectioned. You want to nip this in the bud. Mom had a good doctor that prescribed the right meds and she is sweet now and contented (not zombied out). Definitely address the aggression ASAP.
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Sounds like you have two issues going on here. Reluctance to eat could be dysphagia and fear of choking. My Mom has this and it's difficult to swallow thin liquids like tea or water but the hospital gave her a water thickener and her throat could handle it. Seems counter-intuitive but mushy food like meat loaf, mashed potato she can enjoy. Pizza would frighten her.

You also have a significant behavior change and I agree with folks about UTIs. My Mom was literally raving during a bout. If urine is normal, I'd chat to your doctor about antidepressants or anti anxiety meds. Violent behavior tends to escalate. My Mom screamed in my face for three days and eyed up the kitchen knives saying that if there wouldn't be repercussions, she would slit our throats. She was sectioned. You want to nip this in the bud. Mom had a good doctor that prescribed the right meds and she is sweet now and contented (not zombied out). Definitely address the aggression ASAP.
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Please take her to the ER for evaluation. A sudden change in personality can be a symptom of a stroke. It can also be something as easily treated as a UTI or other infection.. Her appetite being off can also be chronic constipation and she may need a more thorough cleaning out - preferably with medication.
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Cappuccino42 Oct 2021
I would but she doesn’t want to go anywhere near a hospital Last time we were there I was gently reminded by the head doctor that perhaps next time, I shouldn’t bring her in if that’s not what Mum wants. At the time the next day (as soon as she felt better) she was instantly wanting to come home and not stay additional nights.
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You’ve got your hands full, that’s for sure! This situation is tough for both of you. You don’t say how old Mom is or how advanced her dementia is. I do know that UTI’s wreak havoc on our elderly, esp. those with dementia or AD. Behaviors can change dramatically very quickly. I’d check with her doctor and treat the UTI if she has one. Choosing to eat or not can be a short term passing thing, but when one is starting the dying process they no longer require the food. That’s hard to watch, but just part of the process. It can also become tough to swallow as the disease progresses. A speech/Language pathologist can evaluate your mom and shed some light on her situation. Hopefully you will get some much needed answers. Good luck- hang in there!
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Cappucino, I would recommend a daily probiotic supplement for your mum. Antibiotics kill all bacteria and lack of good bacteria can reek havoc on your system, especially your stomach.

I would also get probiotic foods and drinks to give daily. Small amounts are great to get her healthy bacteria back in balance. Even a tablespoon multiple times a day is sufficient.

I would ask for her zinc levels to be tested, that is the main nutrient that effects our taste and smell.

Everything that you said has been going on is definitely part of the dementia journey. Changes can happen in a second, they can stick around, be fleeting or a one time episode. So once any actual medical situation is ruled out or treated don't be surprised if you see similar behavior. Dementia is so unpredictable.

That's why people say, "When you have seen one person with dementia, you have seen one person with dementia." No two situations are exactly alike, no behaviors follow a set timeline or rule, it is very challenging to not get blindsided or caught off guard regularly. Just learning as much as you can to understand as much as possible is the best preparation for this journey.

I pray she finds her appetite soon and feels better.
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She definitely has dementia - whether or not this can be fixed with medication, only doctor would know. If she won't eat, there is nothing you can do. Accept it is the way it is and leave her be - you can't fix it.
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I had a similar experience with my Mother and she ended up having a bowel blockage. Perhaps you should take her to her doctor just to check it out.
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Cappuccino42 Oct 2021
I know Mum did no2 couple days ago though so could this happen if she did have a blockage?

I have noticed her her breath smells like poop!
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I agree with others about the UTI. My Mom gets quite delusional when she has a UTI and it comes on very suddenly for her. My Mom is 93 and she doesn’t have the same UTI symptoms as when she was younger. There is no burning pain. Mom’s doctor also put her on Donepezil a few years ago for dementia. She was paranoid and had hallucinations. This medication made a world of difference in her attitude and disposition.
I would definitely encourage you to take her to the doctor.
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It sounds like you are really focusing on determining if there is a medical problem. That is good, and the most likely scenario.
Just in case you don't find any medical cause, consider psychological causes. My mom went through a phase of complaining that she couldn't swallow. She would eat a couple of bites, then stop. After a few days and a visit to the doctor with no results, she commented that when we pushed her to eat, it made her have trouble swallowing. We all backed off, and gave her time to eat, and backed off on some other things we were encouraging her to do too. That solved the problem.
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That is what l would try - a protein smoothie. One for her and one for you. Two different flavors. Hopefully- she has not forgotten how to swallow. My mom forgot how to “sit”. Did it come back ? Not sure !! Could be too many questions.
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From my (extensive) experience and reading about UTIs:

1) Cranberry juice is acidic, and this limits the growth of the bacteria that cause UTIs. However the effect of a small glassful is limited, and the capsules are more concentrated. If the juice contains sugar, it is less effective. Unsweetened citrus juices help too. Alkaline salts like Ural help with the ‘pissing fire’ problem, but aren’t a preventative.

2) UTIs are normally caused by cross-infection from feces, which is one reason why incontinence is a problem – it spreads to the urethra opening in Depends until they are changed. For younger women, energetic sex can squeeze out enough nasties to end up in the wrong place, near the urethra opening just inside the vagina opening.

3) I learned from a poster that leaning forward at the end of a piss helps the bladder to fully evacuate. It’s true! Now I always do it! It helps in more ways than just limiting UTIs - increased capacity and less urgency at awkward times!

4) It also helps to shave off the fine hairs around the anus and urethra opening, because they can’t be wiped completely clean with toilet paper. I have always disliked the ‘prepubescent look’ of the Brazilian wax/ harem full shave, but this doesn’t affect the front view (in Oz commonly known as the ‘Map of Tasmania’).

4) The doctor does a quick ‘litmus-type’ test in the surgery and then prescribes the antibiotic for the most common UTI if it turns red for acid. The urine sample should be sent away for culturing, just in case the infection was a less common type and requires a different antibiotic (which happened to me only once).

Good luck!
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My mom’s bladder wasn’t emptying properly and she had a kidney blockage of some sort which caused her some swelling as her urine backed up. The urologist ended up putting in a catheter which helped release the urine, but caused more UTI’s. It’s best to stay on top of the infections. Good luck!
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Cappuccino42: Imho, as your mother suffers from dementia, I wonder if these behaviors are akin to childlike patterns. It is going to be difficult to possess any rationale with an individual with dementia. Or perhaps a possible U.T.I. is present.
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Yes, it is possible. You might want to try serving her some different kinds of foods and serve them immediately when they're warm and then set the food by her place and let her try to eat it. This often indicates that a person is in the dying phase and that death is near within the next half a year.
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Your mom's breath smells lije poop????

Please call 911. Right now.

This happened to a friend's mom. Vomitting feces is very unpleasant for everyone involved.

https://www.healthline.com/health/breath-smells-like-poop#causes
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Llamalover47 Oct 2021
Barb: Good catch! I missed that one about OP's mom's #2 breath reference.
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She doesn't sound confused as one might expect with a UTI but she may have one in addition to something else going on. Dementia does go in stages, and different types develop in different ways, so a change in stage particularly if it involved a different area of the brain could be possible. Or could she have had a stroke, or be suffering an undiagnosed brain tumour - so many possibles that have to be ruled out - a visit to her Dr may help, but maybe a neurologist would be useful.
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