Mom lives with myself and my husband. She loses money that she gets out of the bank by other family members taking her to the bank. This happens every week. Most of the time we don't even know she has the money, much less how much. When she can't find the money she accuses us of stealing the money and gets very angry. The same thing happens with her losing her debit card. She does not want us to keep these items for her. She keeps saying she can handle it. Should we continue to let her keep the money and card in her possession or should we keep them for her? It is nerve wreaking when she loses it and the house is turned upside down.
I told my uncle he may has well roll his window down and throw the money out as he is driving home. They just don't get it. After a couple of years of this argument, I finally took my moms purse that had dirty underwear, a fork, tweezers, some socks and an old birthday card in it and removed any debit cards or money. She doesn't even remember to ask about it now.
This is so hard to deal with....the accusations, the mistrust, the constant looking. I don't know your moms personality or the extent of her dementia, but would fake money or just a couple of ones in a wallet suffice? Maybe several wallets in various hidden spots like a dresser or under a couch cushion? When she asks
about it, just say oh I know where you hid that, check under the couch cushion.
When my mom is on a rant or repeat, I try to drastically change the subject by asking her a question. Mom, where would you like me to put these towels? Mom do you use vegetable oil or olive oil when making that cake? etc...
Amazon sells realistic counterfeit money!
If she doesn’t spend it, tell her that you went to the bank for her.
The fake money is cheap. It’s $20 bills just like an atm stop!
1. are the family members who regularly take her to the bank getting a cut of the withdrawal? Perhaps that's a reason they are so amenible to the errand. Maybe they should be responsible for giving you the receipt from the bank. This would help you know how much money your mother has.
2. whenshe accuses you of stealing --act the way you would if she were 4 years old. Don't engage, leave the room, use your headphones. She wants interaction with you even if it's bad interaction. When she comes home from the bank maybe she could make piles of her cash to show you. Show and tell.
3. Of course she says she can handle the $ and the debit card. It's her way of holding on to her old life when she WAS in control. She's not so much mad as frustrated and mad at herself. What does she buy with her debit card? Find a NICE box for her to put her valuables in. Get her into the habit of putting her money and CC in it.
4. Would you let a 4 year old have access to his piggy bank at all times? No, of course not. You two are changing roles and it's not fun for each of you. But stick to your guns.
Dad was money obsessed and always worried about money (I always swore he cried every time he parted with a nickel). I was surprised when Mom gave me the check book - she was still able to balance the checkbook, I guess she was tired of messing with it. This was while they were still in independent living. Because dad fell a lot (stokes in the balance center of his brain - who knew), they moved to A/L but a couple of years later my dad who was 90 and tired of living got bad enough to get moved to the SNF. I always made sure they had cash to take care of incidentals and they had credit cards.
Well of course when dad moved to the SNF part of the community he no longer needed money or credit cards. However, he was upset because he had no money, so at the beginning mom would put a few singles in his dresser underneath some clothing and tell him where it was. Well as he was now in hospice they took him off all his meds except the ones for keeping him comfortable - so he always forgot where the money was. Mom finally took the money back.
One time dad wanted some money and I asked what he needed it for and he said his meals, Well dad your rent covers your meals also. Really? Yes they include all your meals.
On another visit he needed $25 that he needed to pay some woman for something she bought him - boy was he upset - finally I told, Dad I sent her a check this morning, it's all taken care of.
Another time the phone rang at 9pm - I picked it up resigned because I knew the SNF was calling to say he fell - again! But no, it was Dad, he was freaking out because he needed $660 - now! Finally I calmed him down and explained it was late and I couldn't possibly get that much money at this time of night and I promised I would bring the money first thing in the morning. He was happy and I prayed he wouldn't remember the conversation from the night before - and no he did not.
He always claimed mom was out spending all their money; spending it on her boyfriends ?? - which of course she did not do on boyfriends she did not have. - Ah - good times!
Dad died about a year and half ago. I kind of miss our money discussions - It makes me smile and laugh to remember them.
The not so funny discussion dad and I had was when mom and dad gave me the POA. He and I were in the waiting room of his DR. He was worried that I'd take their money for myself; "money does funny things to people" - that of course really ticked me off. I told mom that if that was how he felt about it, I'd refuse to be POA and when the time came he would be appointed a guardian - which would cost him money. Well it worked out in the end. Mom is still living - in lock down and both of us are counting down the days when we have physical contact again.
I'm sorry about the upset to your household. Is she at the point where she wouldn't tell the difference between real money and monopoly money or play money. If so, keep some somewhere in her room and pull it our when she can't find the money she took out of the bank and say here it is. If not, keep some of her money in the house and pull it out when she can't find what she did with hers.
Good Luck and may God bless you all.
Another smart practice-- never let the courts appoint a caretaker-- most of them are just as human as the regular thieves-- and will more than often steal when given the chance--
And our best CNAs and we went thru a bunch of them-- were older not young teens-- and were vetted thru the company were doing business with.
Best advice-- take away the wallet and check book. And never give any money to them-- if you go shopping-- with your demented loved one-- you pay every time. The old life is passed away-- your loved one is a new creation. Old never mixes with new,,, put away the old life-- it is gone. Good luck. Oh-- rule number one-- when faced with "situations"-- always change the subject to a more important issue. -- Expl-- " Where is that $5 bill I set here? -- Mom-- just a minute-- your daughter wants to know if you are still going out to eat with us tomorrow-- and oh-- did you want your favorite dessert ? " Just change the subject. You are dealing with someone who cannot handle two trains of thought. Use your head. Don't let her demons beat you over yours.
Let her keep a purse or two filled with items that are important to her. Have her keep those purses at home.
Explain to friends and family members that trips to the bank are not helpful but detrimental.
Give her $1 bills to keep in her purse. She will feel good seeing the stack in her wallet. This money makes her feel secure and comfortable and it won’t hurt as much if the money is misplaced or hidden.
When she accuses people of stealing divert the conversation.
She is associating money with safety. Reassure her that she is safe, cared for. Give her a hug, a blanket or other “comfort items” when her mind is racing.
You said you are the POA. If you have access to her account(s), why would you not know how much she took out and what she should have "on hand"?
Personally, once this kind of financial inability happened, I took over. She had a CC only and if she put it back into her purse, not the wallet, it was LOST! I could only call and cancel the card, then would have to be at HER place, with HER on the phone, unable to clearly understand, to give me okay to ask for a new card. I learned from the first time what had happened. When I was there to place the call, she handed me the card with the phone number on it. I nonchalantly folded it and put it in my pocket. This was one time she didn't forget and demanded her card back! I threw it onto the table and said have fun trying to use it. It's bent AND you had me cancel it!
So, the second time she said it was lost, could I call and cancel it, I waited a few days, called and had her check the purse. Sure enough, there it was! Even with POA there were restrictions (no online access, no alerts could be set), but I was finally able to get them to reduce the limit to avoid loss if she lost the card for real!
I found it was better to remove ALL access to bills and bank information. I had forwarded her mail to my PO Box (she lived alone) temporarily, to get the bills, call the billers, have the billing address changed, etc. Not too long after I had to get YB to take her out for a while and remove ALL checks, statements, bills, ANY paperwork from her place. Once gone, she forgot about them. She was digging out old stuff and driving me nuts on the phone!
I would put a stop to others "taking her to the bank." Not saying they are doing anything, she could just be "hiding" it and forgetting where she put it, but why take that chance? If she w/draws $200 and comes home with $50, where did the $150 go? What does she even need the cash for?
If possible, replace the ATM card with a pre-pay refillable debit card, making sure it has limit set so no overdrafts. If she questions it, the bank is changing how things work. If she questions no statements, the bank doesn't send them anymore. They do sell play money that appears to look more real (not like Monopoly money.) Perhaps you can get this for her instead? Then she can hide all she wants! If lost, or she accuses you of stealing it, say here, I found your money on the table and hand her some more!
The less you provide, the less she can complain about!
In loving memory of my Gramma Rosie!
My mother has Vascular Dementia, and Alzheimer’s . Thank goodness I’m her POA and now Trustee. She has in the past, removed me from checking accounts, took me off as POA, moved her money to different banks, cashed out bits of her stock, gambled away $40,000. She accused her caregivers of stealing her paintings, purses, clothing etc. She has seen imaginary people at her door trying to get in, saying that they come in and steal from her. Misplaces her purse, keys, money won at casino and blames us.
I convinced her to put me back on as POA because I needed to do her taxes and I needed access to her financial statements. I also limited the amount she could spend at the Casino, gave her an allowance, all which she hated and told me she would go to court and disown me.
As painful and stressful all this turmoil was, I just kept thinking this was in her best interest. I had two doctors test and examine her to be sure it wasn’t something else. This isn’t an easy road to travel. We were met with every know roadblock. Mom would have good days, but mostly bad. When the Fire Department and Ambulance pulled me aside and suggested it was time mom needed 24/7 care, I gave in. I really wanted her to stay in her home with caregivers, but her home was a hoarders trap. It just wasn’t safe anymore.
It didn’t stop, her behavior at the first facility was a nightmare. I moved her after three weeks!
She is now in a beautiful Memory Care with loving, caring and on top of her moods and behavior. So, keep your spirit up! Remember, she may hate you and fight you, but it’s for her own good. It’s not the mom you remember, but in her heart she love you!
Bless you on this journey!
The bottom line is, people with dementia cannot be reasoned with. It's sad when this hits suddenly, but most of the time what we actually notice is late-stage dementia. We don't notice the little changes that come before the delusions and accusations. If she thinks you stole her money, then there's really no way to refute it besides showing her where it is. I hope this advice helps,
These people may not understand the extent of her dementia or that losing things is one of the first issues that indicates there is a problem. She may still be at a stage where she is handling herself quite well in the company of others. For some reason, sitting around with you there can be a lot of memory issues but if they get around others or moving around, there seems to be something like a spark to the brain and become very coherent. I sometimes wonder if the getting out of the house, hearing a different voice energizes the brain a little. The change can be amazing - maybe there is some research out there where things in the brain can be repaired/rewired by way of changing experiences during the day.
Before she leaves the house with anyone, ask her to show you the card and her cash (if she is headed somewhere that she'll need those items). Tell person taking her, they will need to keep up with both while in their care - and you ask for them upon her return. Find a box or bowl that card and cash (and keys) are kept for her and see if you can get a routine planted in her brain to avoid daily easter egg hunts.
I would also suggest you trade the debit card for a credit card that is not directly tied to her bank account. If she loses the card outside the home, it's easier to cancel a credit card than it is to cancel and try to recoup stolen money (especially if she gives the PIN to someone - you won't get that money back).
I am a patient who was diagnosed with Early Onset ALZ just about 5 yrs ago. I watched my Stepfather and Maternal Uncle who was Priest die from ALZ. These 2 men are two of the three most influential men in my life. The third was my FIL. I have experienced three people in my family Stepfather and maternal uncle, doing the stash the cash game. We are now just discovering my DMIL and DFIL also liked to stash cash, as did my MaternalGM. ALL six of these people lived through the Depression of 29. All six did not have complete confidence in our financial system. My MaternalGM had 30,000.00 stashed in her house. My stepfather and uncle both had several thousand stashed away which we discovered when we were cleaning up their belongings after they died. Since my MIL died during the Christmas Season, we've only begun to find stashes of money they had, and my DW and BIL are the ones responsible for their estates. The only way to stop it is by denying them access to cash, which would be difficult unless you had POA's.
My recommendation to our fellow readers is to go forward engage and Elderlaw Attorney to set up a TRUST, DPOA's, and Medical Directives. The TRUST allows your beneficiaries to receive what you want to give them in terms of money and will not be subject to Probate. We are finding out in VA Probate is going to be about a 2 yr affair, and will take 1.5% of the Estates. I say why feed the Govt when you've been feeding it your whole life and in most cases you've paid taxes on the money you've earned. Good luck to all.
The debit card is something else. That has to go, or you have to keep it for her. If she's paying for things on it when family takes her out she won't remember paying and her account balance will run into trouble with the bank. You will be the one who will have to sort it out with the bank.
Does anyone have POA over her? If someone does then they should transfer her cash and income into a different bank account that she does not have access to.
You could also prevent her from having any cash and just take the backlash that will come with that. Or limit her amount of cash on hand because she's going to lose it. You're going to get it anyway. When her money goes missing because she doesn't remember what she did with it, you get accused and blamed for stealing it. If you deprive her of having cash on hand you will get blamed for that too. You will be the one dealing with it with the bank if she bounces checks or overdrafts on her debit card. Because of the dementia and not remembering, she will not be agreeable to any sensible arrangement and there will be tantrums regardless.
Take the debit card away and only allow a small amount of cash on hand (maybe $20) a month for her to lose and just take the backlash. She may need that money she loses at some point.
If the family members who take her out are trustworthy, let them hold her debit card when they take her out so she can buy things she wants within reason. At least you'll have a record of what's spent and can manage her bank account. Let them know that they are NOT to take her to the bank for any reason. I'm sorry that I can't offer you a better solution because there's not one. Situations like yours happen all the time and it's a no-win for everyone. Your mom might need that money she loses all the time for paid care at some point. You're going to have to bite the bullet and just suck it up with the tantrums because she can't be allowed unsupervised access to money anymore.
Ask all family members to not take MIL to the Bank.
Give MIL a Bank Card that has been Closed.
Let MIL use checks and then you can see where the money goes.
Maybe she isn't losing the money, maybe she gives it away and forgets.
My 96 yr old Dad wanted money.
Im the only one on his Account with him.
I use to take him by the Bank to withdraw a hundred dollars then I just started saying I would bring him some cash and he would forget about it.
I would also tell him just to tell me what he wanted and I would buy it.
I told him all his bills were paid automatically out of his checking account. I hired my mower to mow his yard as different people would come to his door asking for money.
But, in the end if you don't have POA and she is of right mind, there's not really anything you can do about it.
But I would at least tell all to not take her to get money out of the Bank because it causes problems at home with her losing the money then blaming ya'll for taking it.
Are you POA then you control everything. A little money to make her happy. If she has dementia then she is not in control over her bills, her health you are. My mom died last December I didn't even know she had 5 POAs in my mom's life all selected by my brother. He already took almost all their money and then allowed his friends as POA to take the rest. She died broke. She didn't have Dementia but being in a nursing home she couldn't pay her bills on her home. She told me how she was denied any money by the POA . My dad had Dementia he lost his mind. Mom cared for him every day until he abused her . Then mom couldn't walk go off in a nursing home.
(and not to be a skeptic...are you sure mom is bringing home the money or is the person taking her to the bank keeping the money?)
VOID the debit card. If she goes to use it say there must be a problem we will look into it. (again the skeptic here...is she loosing the card or are others using it?)
Do you have access to her account(s)? Can you see the activity, what and when is money being withdrawn?
Do you have POA to be able to do this? If not it is a bit late for that you would have to seek Guardianship.
I had a conversation with the bank manager about options. Some were to open another account with only a small amount of money in it. I also had the option of limiting the amount of cash that could be withdrawn on a debit card. I had to take away her checkbook and debit card after I placed her in an AL.
I actually didn’t have to deal with setting up a different account because she declined so quickly. One of the things I was worried about however, was having those larger cash withdrawals scrutinized by Medicaid in the future. She was taking out 500 or so sometimes and that money was never accounted for. So I want to insure that everything is transparent and paid for with a check and a corresponding bill or receipt. So I actually never have withdrawn cash from my mother’s account with a debit card.
When she had good moments there were many arguments and accusations. But I had to be firm and stand my ground. If she is in your house you may set the rule to be “we don’t allow cash in our house because we don’t want to tempt thieves” or something along those lines. Good luck!