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Once again FIL fell and is in nursing home until he can leave which they doubt will ever happen . They allowed mil to stay in the room with him as she has bad dementia and can not be alone. Now that we have them there the plan is to try to keep them there. Medicade is working on their behalf to get them covered. The problem is that we still do not have POA. This is one stubborn couple and they refuse help. Anyway medic aide needs financial info so my husband went into their house to look for paperwork. They have been issued a notice of intent to foreclose ( unopened) which medic aide says is actually a good thing. We found MIL bank account notice and it shows that someone has been withdrawing $200 every two to three days for the last month. The bank says they can't check to see if it's fraud unless we have POA. My husband explained the situation to his dad but he doesn't seem to care. I think he's given up on it all. How long will it take to get POA set up if they refuse to sign papers?

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can u get online access? Not to withdraw, just to look and be able to see where the money is going. Check being cashed? By whom? ATM withdrawal? Then you can show FIL.
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Thanks for the clarification. Just like you, I'm actually shocked it took so long to serve them with the foreclosure
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"Stubborn" doesn't cut it. You have to be the one in control. They don't get a say.
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I will second what's noted above about APS. I'm glad many of you live in places where it's an effective and helpful agency, but for some of us, it's a joke. Where we live APS does little, mostly seem to like telling people what all they can't be of assistance with. Not a good resource at all.
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At the risk of sounding shady here I have on rare occasion assumed my mother's persona to get something accomplished on her behalf. I have her social security information, all the answers to the standard questions. I have used it calling her billers when she was behind and they wouldn't talk to me because of privacy issues. She was in the hospital and I was at wits end on how to get the balances due on her accounts. So, for a quick fix I played her and got the job done. Now that said, if you can pull it off get the account debit/ATM card reported as stolen and reissued with a different number. When they get out and home again take them to get it re-activated with a new pass code.
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It's not what caused them to loose the house. They haven't paid a mortgage on it since June 2015. My husband found the notice at the house- unopened. I don't know why it took the bank so long to file except there are lots of unsold houses in their area. The just finally got served. They have been terrible with money. It's actually a good thing they are loosing the house because now they'll have no where to go home too should they be allowed to leave to the nursing home. This has been going on for two years, she has dementia, he tries to take care of her but is physically unable. They have not let anyone in the house for 18 months. We called APS but they did nothing. She even stabbed him in the hand and after a hospital stay they did nothing to investigate. Complete failure of the system. I think the only reason social services is now paying attention is because my sister in law complained that they'd all ( APS , police, etc. been called numerous times and failed to notice no electricity in the home, empty kitchen cabinets, trash overflowing and three blocked toilets. After the complaint we seem to finally be getting somewhere. We wouldn't have known anything about their living condition if my husband hadn't managed to find a way inside while they are away. I think we win the stubborn parents award.
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Apparently it must've been someone she knows pretty well or at least someone who must've seen the card in and apparently it must've been someone she knows very well or at least someone who must've seen the card in and got a hold of hold of her card and made the withdrawals out of temptation. I'm so sorry it caused her to lose her house when she may have otherwise paid her mortgage or her taxes and other bills. Dementia doesn't necessarily mean someone won't pay the bills. My foster dad was demented and he always paid the bills. I think there's a strong possibility he may have been demented for a while and I just never knew it because if he was, he was very high functioning with it, even long after I set up his bills to come out automatically from our end and they always got paid. He was doing very good walking around town and paying cash check or money order on whatever it is he had to do. However, as he got a little older I became a little more concerned about him walking around town by himself. What I was concerned about is something happening to him and I was also concerned that he might develop arthritis in other joints since he already had it. Yes, I had my concerns and him eventually surprising me by putting me on the account gave me an open door for us to have the bills come out automatically like I already did on my original account. This work out very well since he could go and do other things. He was concerned about auto bill pay at first until he found out for himself through the bank statement that it really was working. It got to the point where he appreciated it very much. I'm just sorry that daddy is now in a facility fighting a war he never wanted to have to fight.

Whatever happens with your loved one, try not to let someone get guardianship who will become a monster and cut you off from your loved one, even if it happens to be with good intentions to protect you. There should be a balance of protecting you and still letting you see your love one if this is an outside guardianship.

* If you plan on gaining guardianship yourself, make sure you're actually cut out for it and that you don't need money. This is a very big and very strong consideration that's always looked at by the courts before granting that guardianship to anyone. The Guardian should be in such financial stability that they just don't need money from the ward. Also having other proper resources such as a car is a must. If you get a call from the facility that requires your visit and you don't have a car, this can look bad on your part. This is what happened to me because I was on low income but more than happy to help as much as I can with my foster dad. When winter came around and I got calls from an apartment complex where can look bad on your part. This is what happened to me because I was on low income but more than happy to help as much as I can with my foster dad. When winter came around and I got calls from an apartment complex where I got calls from the management who wanted to speak to me, all I had was my power chair to get around and winter was setting in and I had to explain that I couldn't come running on a whim and had explained this to her I got calls from the management who wanted to speak to me, all I had was my power chair to get around and winter was setting in and I had to explain that I couldn't come running on a whim and had explained this to her. I asked her if she could just speak to me over the phone due to the given circumstances.

* This happened to be the first time I ever had to step in and paid someone in a major way, so back then I really had very little money after bills and groceries and I had no car. I know this is not something the average person thinks of when someone is willing to take guardianship of someone and make their decisions and handle their affairs, but this is something people more in a rich person's position would frown on even if you're doing the best you can with what little you have.

* I thought I would warn you so that you can review your own self and your own situation, and see where you stand in your ability to provide for yourself before taking on more responsibility.

* Sometimes the ones who would take the best care of another person are the poorest of the poor, it's sometimes them who have the best intentions and love them the most. However, not everyone has another person's best interest at heart because not everyone does. From what I noticed around here, the very person who took custody of my foster dad turned out to be a rich snob who became a monster but she was more in a position to take over my dad than I was though I love him and she doesn't. All she sees is $'s. I don't know whether or not she gets paid for this, she probably does but I don't know if she gets paid out of dad's check or if the state goes ahead and pays her some other way because all of his check close to the nursing home. Apparently she saw an opportunity to cut off loved ones from ever seeing him again but she will answer for it because she's only one heartbeat from hell. Yep, she will answer for it sooner or later
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Thanks to all who posted answers, I learned a lot of information I can pass on to my son in case he ever has to access my money. I followed advice not to make him a joint owner of my accounts because it could affect his income tax, but to make the accounts Payable on Death (to him.)
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Thanks for the responses. It's a big fat mess, but they are safe rt now in a nursing home. They are working with us to declare her incompetent , they already did for him to make him stay there. He can't walk on his own and fell again while there. The pysch. Comes in two weeks. Once that happens they will stay permanently while we attempt to clean out there house before the foreclosure . Right now our best bet is to wait and see if the new account statement shows the withdraws have stopped - we will know it was one of them . My poor husband is so stressed by all this. What a mess they created for us. Good lesson learned- we will never leave our kids in this position .
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If you are POA, guardian, future executor etc. you still must have your own administrative first aid kit that you can reach into and produce documents day or night, during or after business hours. You will frequently be asked for POA and DPOA proof of finances in person, by fax, by mail, by phone, by notary.
That said, have a sturdy soft carry bag, such as the eco-safe grocery bags that are now being offered at the grocery stores. Buy different color binders, for each parent because each parent will be determined an individual applicant, a spousal applicant, and/or a joint/community spouse and a decedent at different points along the way. When you conduct business on your parent's behalf, make sure you carry the binder with you.


Each parent's individual documents must stand alone. Many documents must stand as joint documents since Medicaid not only looks at the individual applying for Medicaid, but also the couple.

Bring YOUR personal photo ID as well. Between spouse's Medicaid and my mom's banking, at different times I've had to produce his, hers, mine, and our documents on very short notice.

Also - if you have to file taxes for your parents, there is a Tax-Aid program for low income people and is approved by the IRS. It may be a resource you can use - as long as you have the financial power-of-attorney in place. I would also discuss the tax form with the attorney. I think - (but Verify) - that even a foreclosed home has tax consequences that IRS and/or Medicaid deems as "income".
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If they won't or can't sign papers, you will never get POA. You'll have to petition the court for guardianship. Concerning the bank issue, don't ask them to check. Tell them your parents are both in a nursing home (you can bring admission papers as proof) and someone is draining their account. I'm assuming that no one else is POA and there are no other signers on their account that you know of. This is terrible. good luck.
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In the case of debit card fraud, thieves are more likely to show up at the ATM than to go into the bank.  then again, it's more convenient to go to the ATM then to wait in long lines inside the bank on payday when you might be there a while. Of course, a thief might go in for the withdrawal  just like anyone else would if the debit card fails, and a card can fail even on a co-owner of a bank account who's not stealing.  ATM cards can fail even on the owner, this has happened to me with my own card and I would have to go into the bank and tell them what happened and at least once or twice I simply had to reset my password. I don't know why other than the card being disabled that a system no longer recognizes  your password when you use the same one all the time when you visited that ATM multiple times before with no problem. 
Anyway, anytime you have access to someone else's account, the card can fail any time at the ATM or worse yet at the check out whether you're a thief or not. This can be especially devastating if you happen to have a lot of items at the checkout and you're trying to pay for them. If the transaction won't go through it's good to stop a thief but bad if you happen to be a co-owner on that account. Be very careful when reporting debit card fraud, because it may not actually be fraud. Try to track down the person using the card and have a calm conversation with them and try not to do it in and accusing manner. If the person is a co-owner on the account or had permission from the owner to actually use the card, then the person gave them permission to use it and they were not in the wrong. If no guidelines were set, then there's no way to know how much of the extra money after bills can be taken by the co-owner or even the guest. If they say half of what's left is yours or even half of what comes into the account is yours, then half of the money is yours. However, this can fluctuate as the owners needs change and bills can also fluctuate. Again, be very careful before accusing someone of stealing from the account because that probably not be stealing and may have had permission to take a certain amount every so often depending on the owner's wealth. Check to see if  the person taking the money may actually be one of their children or even one of their grandchildren, parents and grandparents often give access to their closest loved ones, and sometimes they can go hogwild
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As a stop-gap emergency measure: do statements show withdrawal made with debit card number or card at an ATM? Call fraud department through customer service number on card. Or just maybe a sympathetic employee could be told the card has been compromised and a new one would be sent with different number. This does not solve larger problem of access to account if no card number was used but it could quickly help while you work on the larger issue.
This is an emergency and important not to be overwhelmed, so that it does not continue.
By the way, I've noticed a difference between how individuals at a bank handle requests for help.

Please post an update which will help others. Hang in there.
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Horsesh1t the bank can't check on it.

The bank can't disclose information to *you.* You're not asking them to. You're giving them information about unexplained activity which could involve criminal fraud or theft. Put it in writing, keep records. If it later transpires that there has been criminal activity and you can prove that you warned them of it and they did nothing, they could be liable.

Who operates your MIL's account, your FIL? Because one other thing you can do is call the bank while you're physically in the room with him so that he can give them verbal permission to discuss the account with you. It's a temporary quick fix, but it might work.
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Banks have a policy to protect the customer privacy, it's the law. As mentioned above, you may want to go beyond POA and just go for guardianship. It sounds to me like someone has access to your loved one's account. I don't know if there's a co-owner on there, but if so there's not much that can be done except for the actual owner to put a stop to the withdrawals. If it's being done at the ATM, the owner can remove the card from her account to disable it. This will work if someone else has her card. The card can be permanently stopped and she can be issued a new one. The owner can also request the bank block or limit access to the co-owner. If she's not competent, this can still be done but I'm not sure who does it or how it's done. This can possibly be done during a guardianship proceeding to gain guardianship of the person. At some point the access to the account can be blocked until further notice. This can be hard if the co-owner is helping the owner in someway or another or if the owner is helping the co-owner or they're helping each other through coownership of the bank account. Blocking access to an account should be done carefully because you don't know whether or not the co-owner may actually be contributing to the bank account. If they both have direct deposit to the same account, having one owner blocked will most likely cause trouble for whoever blocked the account because someone's income is no longer accessible to them. The best way a bank can handle this is to remove one person from the account and move their money to a new one in the case where one of the owners will need a guardian. In some cases no one knows what's going on in the background behind closed doors. Things can happen secretly until all of a sudden it becomes open and everyone sees the result of what happened secretly. Be very careful if you go for guardianship because sometimes people who have access to not only a person but also their money can become monsters, especially if that guardian happens to be a big shot attorney, and also worse yet if they happen to be related to someone like a prosecutor or some other high ranking person. This is where it can get ugly because innocent loved ones around the person needing the guardian can suddenly be cut off when really the patient most needs them. Anytime you're dealing with a person with dementia, that's when they most need you, and cutting you off from them can actually make matters worse for the patient.  I think this was evident in the case of my foster dad. Just because they have dementia doesn't necessarily mean they don't still think and feel and even miss people close to them that they love. Being cut off from those people can cause them to react negatively and even become combative because ultimately they just don't want to be in the facility to start with. Now imagine being in a facility cut off from your loved ones and everything you know including losing your freedom. You may as well say it's very much like being in prison, and I don't blame my foster dad for becoming combative! The last time I saw him I witnessed abuse against  another patient at the hands of one of the workers. After reporting it, someone said something to his guardian and I was never allowed to see my foster dad again. I miss my dad, but I also couldn't turn a blind eye to the physical abuse I clearly saw with my own two eyes.  to make matters worse, some of the workers tried lying about me, but I had to set that straight also. Just because a facility seems nice doesn't necessarily mean there aren't bad people working there. Sometimes even the best research isn't enough because bad people are everywhere. 
There really is corruption in high places just as well as in not so high places, so be very wary of who gets custody of your loved one. The person you think someone is can become a whole different person when their true colors come out once they get guardianship and even control of their money especially if they happen to have tremendous wealth. The more wealth someone has, the meaner someone else can become once they gain full control of that wealth. 

One final thought is that sometimes a demented person can say something wrong was done when really that was never the case. As some of you know, demented people can accuse someone of stealing one know if I have to was done or a crime was committed one no crime was committed. They can say stuff and falsely accuse people of this or that when none of which ever happened, so be very careful if they account owner happens to be demented, there are often inconsistencies of accusations which means they can say stuff about people that's just not true, a form of false accusations
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I think the above three answers cover it all. Get going on it right away. When I had guardianship of my mother, I reserved one spot in my house for taking care of the paperwork related to it. It's like having a part time job, but you will get through it. We all did.
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You can always call Adult Protective Services if you feel your elder parent is being exploited. They take these things very seriously. Just my 2 cents.
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I agree. See an attorney for conservatorship or guardianship. Medicaid can make someone make up any money spent. They don't really care who took it. But police reports might help.
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Immediately get emergency Guardianship, no other way. They can't sign anything once they are incompetent.
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