Elderly parents want me to give up retirement dream and care for them, while refusing to discuss their health plans.

When I questioned my mother about her accounts, she did the same thing -- said, "Don't worry..you're getting yours." And that's not at all what it was about. I wanted to know how her money would be accessed (locked up in a trust) if she were not able to write checks herself. She took this to mean that I was greedy and wanted to get my hands on her money.

So she (unbeknownst to me) took me (and another brother) off her POA (the two remaining brothers are still on it). This was done when one of the two POA brothers was in town. No one told me (he claims to not have known what she went to the attorney for -- that could have been true). I don't know why my third brother was taken off the POA, but I was taken off because she was convinced I wanted to get at her money.

I only find out all of this this past November when was in rehab after a hospitalization. Getting access to her money to private pay for her now permanent NH residence was tricky, as no paperwork had ever been done for that, other than the broad statement in the trust that my two successor trustee brothers (the two with POA) had the power. Banks and financial institutions want more than that, though, and my mother had not been declared incompetent.

So I could sign nothing for her, even things that didn't involve money. The silver lining is that I can be paid, and I wouldn't have been able to be paid for all I've done for her if I was a POA, as there is a clause that the POA doesn't get paid except for reimbursement of expenses. So I'm getting a hourly fee from my mother's funds, plus back-pay for the previous two years. And it's gifted to me, so no taxes due. (My mother will never be Medicaid-eligible, so all the careful recordkeeping needed for that is irrelevant.)

It's a shame our relationship was pretty much ruined because she was so paranoid. But after a couple of years of being told I didn't do anything for her, my time wasn't worth anything and outright disgust with me, the pay has made me feel better. I did it all, and my three out-of-state brothers didn't. The trust will be divided equally four ways when she passes, which is what it says and what she was adamant about. But my time wasn't free, after all, which is what she also wanted. "You don't pay family." Oh, yes you DO!

John, when your father rather cynically reassured you that you can expect to be a beneficiary of his will, clearly - whether intentional or not - misconstruing your enquiry about his and your mother's care planning, how did you respond to him?

When a person is wilfully missing the point, or you suspect it's wilful at least, it is extremely frustrating. But you can't give up. Even if you have to draw them a picture, set up a PowerPoint presentation, use a loudhailer - you have *got* to nail them down on this.

It might be useful to put in writing to your parents that you are leaving, and that you will be quite happy to talk with them about what they need, once they are ready to give you full details of their situation, wishes and plans. Don’t just put it in an email – they get deleted. Keep a photocopy of your own signed letter, and send a copy to your brother for his information. Don't try to discuss it at present because you have proved to yourself that it will not work. Remind yourself that you have gone out of your way to offer help and that you have been rebuffed. Then get on with your own life - there is nothing more that is sensible to do.

Once again, after several previous attempts, I asked my parents about their future plans for medical and living care. As usual, they were unwilling to speak candidly and intelligently about the subject. The best I could get, as if I was a stranger, was my Father’s short, quip, indiscernible response of “I’m on the list”. Like all previous attempts, my parent’s obvious mindset is that I’m only after their money. 

This is probably a no-win situation and the only sensible thing to do is let go. Yet, I still feel stuck, trapped and disappointed with guilt about relocating. Coupled with other stressors, it feels like our retirement dream is just that - only a dream. 

Any input would be much appreciated, thank you. 


Johnc1


Fear, obligation and guilt are the major culprits. 


My Mother manipulatively cries loudly that she cannot survive without us anytime we bring up the prospect of relocating. However, my parents prefer to focus most conversations around bragging and attempting to impress us with their money and how they plan to buy a brand new Mercedes for cash (even though their driving is extremely limited). While their independence is good but waning, they refuse to let us in and discuss any practicalities or take any kind of sound advice. Their priorities are clearly skewed and they have always been extremely cheap and selfish. This has been very frustrating and conjurs up many conflicting emotions. What’s more is that this situation completely falls to our shoulders as my only brother does not involve himself or visit my parents. 


Johnc1

John, have your parents expressed to you " don't you dare leave"?

Or is the obligation in your head, i.e., that's what good people do?

I guess I don't understand this sort of mindset. Healthy parents raise their children to become independent. They do not attempt to bind their children to them through emotional blackmail.

In your shoes, I'd leave and let the future arrive. Deal with the future when it happens.

Fear, obligation and guilt are the major culprits.


Johnc1

So, John, why are you having difficulty leaving? Fear, Obligation and Guilt?

Once again, after several previous attempts, I asked my parents about their future plans for medical and living care. As usual, they were unwilling to speak candidly and intelligently about the subject. The best I could get, as if I was a stranger, was my Father’s short, quip, indiscernible response of “I’m on the list”. Like all previous attempts, my parent’s obvious mindset is that I’m only after their money. 

This is probably a no-win situation and the only sensible thing to do is let go. Yet, I still feel stuck, trapped and disappointed with guilt about relocating. Coupled with other stressors, it feels like our retirement dream is just that - only a dream. 

Any input would be much appreciated, thank you. 


Johnc1

Well here is the other side of the coin. I am 90 and my husband is nearing 92, We moved away from our home town 30 years ago to retire in a warm climate. We both worked very hard to raise our 3 children. When I mentioned to my daughter inlaw that we are having health issues (my husband has had 3 falls recently) I said"it is hard living so far away from family" she said you made that choice 30 years ago,"Obviously I was not thinking about old age at that time. We are not wealthy but we will spend what we have on our own care. Perhaps your parents are to demanding or put you on a guilt trip, Make the move you do not owe them anything, just love and show interest in them tell them you are not abandoning them and GO live your life. It is true money can't buy happiness but it can allow you to be independent and get good care in your old age.

Davina, thank you for your comment and the information.

And to others who may/may not be interested: However, although I may disagree with my mother and feel she should include others, it is her choice. She should NOT have to include any of us in her will. It is her money to do with what she wants.

However, I will say that after my brother (only other sibling) passed away a few years ago, SIL has been sniffing around to ask me about Mom's will. (Please note, she has always been about money.)

Because it caught me off-guard, I diverted the subject, and said I don't know where it is. But to be honest, I felt like saying well, it really is none of your business. The only reason it is my business, is that Mom needs help with it, and I am her only child left and her POA. So, whatever my mom wants is fine by me.

My feeling is (and this is how I was raised) is that if someone leaves you anything, be it money a gift or whatever, from a will, it is a GIFT and should be received as a GIFT, with appreciation. NEVER should anyone ever think that he/she is ENTITLED to anything. My parents worked very hard over the years at saving what they have...that is their money; since Dad passed away, it is Mom's money. Period. End of story.

But from what Davina said, it looks like the will could still be contested. I think that's not fair, but if it is the law, then, will have to deal with it when the time comes. I wish Mom liked to travel, we could do all sort of fun things, but she has always been the home-body and doesn't want to go anywhere. I won't think twice about using her money for care at home when she needs it and use her money up that way. You should see how many purses, and pairs of pants, and shoes she has :). But it makes her happy!!

and P.S. (((smiling)))) it is not anywhere near any millions!!

I knew someone on a similar situation. Since their parents were worth $20 million, the kids decided that it would be more worthwhile to care for them than to be cut out of their will.

To Myownlife the response to you from Isthisrealyreal regarding the clause in the Will is correct. Some will put if anyone contest this Will you only get $1.00. As they also mentioned you can name names & exclude them & descendants etc. Just the same as if you wanted certain individuals to get something. It's your Will you can decide what you want. A lawyer can help with the wording once they understand what a person wants.

John, Without you there to provide free caregiving they will probably spend all of their money on their care.

Money is not worth giving up your dreams. Let them do what ever they want with it, except buy you.

I have a clause in my will that says anyone that contests it, gets nothing.

I choose to not be involved with people, no matter who they are, that use money for control, it's sick.

John,

Will not bore you with the details. Every family has crazies!

We are also in our 60’s.

Not that we ever asked or expected any financial help or money left in a will. What people do with their money is their business. If they want to give it to charity or whatever, fine by us.

Know what my husband did when my FIL said he was not leaving money to the family? His dad was trying to use money to hurt my husband. He said, “Dad, flush your money down the toilet! We don’t want it. We only wanted to love you. You rejected our love. Your loss.”

He has never ever regretted telling him that. God! I love my husband for being the smart, loving, independent man that he is!

Why would you want their money?

Thank you all again for your wonderful input and support. One last concern is the possibility of my parents cutting me out of their will upon our moving away. This is not outside the realm of possibilities based on their extreme greediness and past odd behaviors with my family. I do not need their money, nor would I want it with hateful strings attached. However, I do not know what legal recourse I would have, if any, should this ever become a reality. Any insights or experience with this type of situation would be greatly appreciated. Thank you again. 

Johnc1

I totally understand how you feel about moving on with your life. Thank goodness your parents live independently at ages 91 and 95. They must be scared to not have you close by in case they need you. I would suggest finding them an independent senior living arrangement. Some of them also have assisted in a different part of the building. They can make friends with other people and have the support if they need it. You and your wife can feel free to enjoy life and feel secure that your parents are being taken care of. You can visit them then you can.

John, you just let it go.

You use past behavior as a map of future behaviors, they are selfish and self serving, always have only cared about the end result for them. Okay, that doesn't obligate you to give up your life.

My husband saw your question on my email and read it, he was curious if it was a joke. After he read it he asked me if it was real. I said yes and he was floored, his response was, this guys a grown man why would he let his parents treat him like a kid or worry about what they want him to do? He obviously can't win with them and in those situations a man acknowledges that it's a no win and goes on with his life and dreams he and his wife have.
I thought I would share those words because you are obviously having a hard time separating yourself from their guilt, stop over thinking this and stop asking and sharing with them, get up and get busy living your dreams, deal with them as needed. You don't have to jump and run because they have a crisis, that's what 911 is for, as long as everyone jumps to their tune they have no reason to change anything. Only you can separate yourself and let them deal with the consequences of their bad choices.

In my opinion, you should feel no guilt whatever in pursuing your retirement dream. After all, your wife comes first, before your parents.  But they lived life on their terms and now you have the right to do the same.  Why should you feel guilty? You have been generous in helping them, but they don't own you. They are responsible for planning for their old age, have the financial means to do so, Why would you need to stay in the same place? Parents can hire services if they wish to stay in their home or they can go into AL. That is their choice and THEIR responsibility.

Thank you all for your wonderful input, it has been immensely helpful in gaining perspective. Some of the responses indicated that my parents do not deserve our help in light of their behavior. Over the years my parent’s behaviors and priorities have been very negative - at the expense of relationships with family and their only grandchild. I would like to get past the confusion, mixed emotions and let go of this burden so that we can move forward with our lives. Any additional comments would be most helpful and much appreciated. Thank you again. 

 Johnc1

You and your wife need to live your life on YOUR terms, NOT anyone else's!
Listen to my story and figure out if you want to be in the same nightmare later on?
My FIL lives with us since my MIL died. A year and 1/2 ago. Before she passed our lives consisted of being at their beck and call every minute. They both didnt drive, so the doctor visits became an all day thing because they would make early doctor appts, THEN they needed to go grocery shopping, THEN they had to go pay bills, THEN they had to go here or there “Well we dont have a car, and uber is too expensive” It was exhausting! Even tho they lived in their own place it was like we never got a break from them! They would call if they needed a case of water! “We are out of bottled water you need to bring us some because we are thirsty” Or if they needed food but there was no doctor visit planned, they would call us and tell us the list of what they needed or want us to take them to the store.
When they DID drive IT WAS ME going in late to work or leaving work early because they had a flat tire. (Which became more frequent as their eyesight got worse) my job was more flexible than hubbys, so they would call me saying “well we didn't want to bother our son at work but.....”
It was horrible! They literally were draining the life out of us! Financially, mentally, emotionally etc

They didnt plan for ANYTHING! Thats why my MILs wake and funeral was paid for by us and her 2 brothers. If not for them she would be in our backyard under the flowers! $12,500 final total between casket, flowers, funeral home, 2 day wake, preacher, transporting the casket to the gravesite, having the preacher speak at the gravesite, memorial cards, obituary, etc
The cemetary charges $1,000 to dig the grave and $1,000 to cover it up.

Yah IT IS that expensive!

My advice to you is MAKE SURE they have a plan BEFORE something happens to them!

My FIL lives with us, he has no plan, he has no savings and no life insurance, when he dies we will have to take out a loan to bury him. He has no relatives left and his other kids are worthless! That $12,500 will be coming out of OUR pocket!

Take action NOW! Dont wait until its too late! Get them to make a plan!

Dont be at their beck and call like we were, its horrible, mentally draining and you have no life of your own!!

Do for you and your wife, follow your dream because if you don't, the only one who is going to suffer because of it is you and your wife!

AS OTHERS HAVE STATED, YOUR FIRST OBLIGATION IS TO TAKE CARE OF YOUR WIFE AND YOURSELF. IY IS UNREASONABLE FOR YOUR PARENTS TO EXPECT YOU TO LIVE ONLY FOR THEIR NEEDS, SIY DOWN AND TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT YOU BELIEVE IS REASONABLE FOR YOUAND WHAT YOU CAN REASONABLY DO FOR THEM. YES, HELPING ONE'S PARENTS IS IMPORTANT, BUT ONLY WITHIN THE SCOPE OF YOUR OWN SITUATION. WHAT IS THE SITUATION WITH YOR WIFE'S PARENTS? IF YOUR BROTHER WON'T HELP, THAT IS HIS PROBLEM NOT YOURS.

WORK OUT WHAT YOU PLAN TO DO - VISITS, TELE.CALLS; AND LET YOUR PARENTS KNOW YOUR PLANS. IT MAY BE HELPFUL FOR YOU BOTH YO SEE A COUNCELOR FOR SOME HELP IN LETTIMG GO.

DO YOUR PARENTS HAVE WILLS, TRUSTS, POA, LIVING WILL [YOU SHOULD DO THIS FOR YOURSELVES AS WELL IF YOU HAVEN;T ALREADY]. ONCE THAT IS DONE YOU CAN HELP WITHY MONEY AND HEALTH MATTERS, IF THEY REFUSE TO DO POA, ETC, THAT ALSO REFLECTS ON THEM, PERHAPS YOU HAVE OTHER FAMILY MEMBERS AND/OR FRIENDS WHO CAN PERIODICALLY LOOK IN ON YOUR PARENTS. THERE MAY BEADULT CENTERS WHERE THEY CAN GO TO HELP KEEP ACTIVE. HOPEFULLY. PNCE YOU SHARE YOUR PLANS ON HOW TO MAINYAIN YOUR TIES AND THEY SEE IT ACTUALLY HAPPEN THAT WILL ALSO HELP, IT MAY BE THAT THEY ARE SCARED THAT ONCE TOU MOVE, THEY WILL NOT SEE YOU

Live your life for your wife. She is your number one priority, not your parents. Your wife took no vows regarding her in-laws. Your parents have their life which they don't consult you about, right? Guilt there will surely be but you owe your wife the life you promised each other. We are 72. My wife and I have a beach house we have owned for 11 years. My wife had always wanted a house at the beach. Every Spring my mother knows we are going to go to that beach house as much as we can for the whole Summer. We are an hour and a half away instead of 10 minutes. Mom hates it. But I can't live her life for her or let her control mine and I can't bring back my dad. She is safe and warm, looked after 24x7 by trained staff in a nice AL. I still feel guilty and get mad at myself for my feelings. It is what it is, just do it. If your parents get in a jam you will help them, it's enough.

I wouldn't turn my back on them. But I wouldn't give up my life to take care of them either. Whatever you decide to do, good luck.

As the wife, in a similar situation, follow you and your wife’s dreams. My FIL has died. My MIL, now unable to drive continues to live in a remote rural house with a large property, 5 miles away. My ILs had very few friends. They have looked to my husband and me to be not only their, caregiver, but their social support, maintainance man and gardener. I see the manipulation and it makes me angry. My FIL showed love according to what you did and not for who you are. After be me the personal caregiver of my FIL, did I get to know him, and the horrible family dynamics. I saw my husband trying to earn his fathers love and approval (that is how I ended up being my FIl’s ‘nurse’) and now he is acting on pitty for his mom, who plays the victim. The siblings are divided by the parental manipulation. I have said to my husband about the dynamics and he recognizes it, but can not seem to change. It has really stressed our family. I feel resentment. My parents have major health issues (ALZ and CHF) too. I give more time to my ILs than them. I realize that I myself have fallen into the manipulation as I want to be supportive of my husband. We have neglected friends, our home and at times ourselves; and it has negatively impacted our happiness and future. When you married you voted to put your wife first. I don’t see the future that my husband hopes for ever happening, because we are starting to have health issues.

Your prioirty is your wife.

You should not do this. It's not your responsibility.

I think there is a very simple answer here and I pray you heed what I am going to say. The parents have always been secretive and never wanted to discuss or plan what was going to happen with them in the future - VERY BAD SITUATION. I know many people do this and there simply is NO EXCUSE for such stupidity and lack of appropriate action. And if people like these parents manipulate others, and obviously have "self-interest" problems, and dementia, that is all the more reason to stop and take a hard look at what they have NOT done - they did not discuss or prepare for their ultimate future. On the other hand you have worked very hard and are in the enviable position of now wanting to life life - MY GOD........THEN DO IT - NOW! These people are in their 90's and have never discussed or made plans for their old age and expect YOU to take care of them. You can counsel them, you can oversee things for them, you can emotionally support them, etc. BUT YOU ARE NOT OBLIGATED TO CARE FOR THEM IN VIEW OF WHAT THEY DID NOT DO. If they are financially secure, let them get caretakers or go into a facility where they will be cared for. YOU NEED TO LIVE YOUR LIFE NOW - IT IS YOUR TURN NOW. They lived their lives. Do not wait. Take responsibility and tell them what you are going to do and do it. Give them perhaps a couple of months notice and start providing information as to what/where they could/should go. BUT DO NOT TAKE ON THIS RESPONSIBILITY. Parents like that do NOT deserve that help from you. They are very selfish and don't care about anything except what they want.

Why not tell them to relocate to the area where you will be moving?