Did anyone who went No Contact with parent regret it after they passed?

TW, if you do stuff like hire outside caregivers without authorization from the POA, you are prolonging the time when the AL will seek guardianship.

I don't quite understand why you continue to involve yourself.

As POA, if he checks in on site with AL once a month, that may be sufficient for the AL's reqirement.

Please leave this alone. Your mom made her wishes known. Respect them.

WOW! I’m just seeing all these responses and thank you for the support. So let me clarify - my brother absconded to another state with all mom’s money, left her 1 mile from my house in AL and expected them to manage all her health care. He hasn’t kicked me out - he just alienates me and she lets him because she plays the triangulation game. I’ve been rocking along, seeing her several times a week and taking small meals. Fast forward a year and things are worse - she hasn’t been to a doctor, had a terrible fall on Xmas Eve resulting in 2 fractures in her back, hiatal hernia causing inability to thrive, and low BS. I hired a private caregiver to help her over holiday when I went to visit my granddaughter. They all, brother, SIL, mom went ballistic and refused to pay for the care. The AL living was operating at low staff and couldn’t give the extra care. I rose to the challenge and did evenings and weekends. Falls set her back so badly - and she is nearly completely immobile - she didn’t argue with the care when she needed it. Not till my SIL interfered and told her to fire her. This is what I deal with. She’s having so many problems Idk how I will keep up unless she simply doesn’t want to see a doctor at all and I would respect that.

I will re-read all your stories as there is some good content, just sorry so many have had the same situations.

I don't understand how horrible people can be to one another but no form of this can ever be justified. If nothing changes the dynamics and stops this horror, then it is wisest to sever all ties forever and move on - never look back. What reason would you have not to do this?

No matter what you do, or don’t do you will experience both guilt and regret.

You have to do what is best for yourself. There are no easy paths through the caregiving journey but once you make your decisions you can't beat yourself up for them.

Let me just say that when people withdraw from family members, regardless of if it is permanent or temporary, it’s usually for extremely valid reasons.

My husband became estranged from his father. I totally regret trying to be the ‘peacemaker’ in the family. I got caught in the middle of it all and trampled on by all sides.

Fortunately, my husband realized that I was only trying to help but politely asked me to allow him to handle his dad, which I respected.

I say that if a person isn’t totally sure that they are able to be the ‘peacemaker’ then it’s best to stay out of it.

Things don’t always work out as we would have liked them to.

There are secrets and skeletons in family closets.

Men seem to have enormous pride but women can also.

Live and let live is my motto.

I know so many people that have had to be told to sweep their own porch before trying to sweep other’s porches.

Your story sounds so much like mine. My narcissist brother alienated me from my parents... he would even call the police when I tried to visit them. He would tell police, doctors, hospitals that he was POA and I wasn’t allowed to see them. And they listened to him!!! This nightmare went on for 5-6 years until I hired an elder lawyer, went to court, and obtained full guardianship. My brother (who rarely visited our parents when he was POA) has not visited in two years. With a narcissist its all about having full control... not about caring! Very difficult for normal people to understand. Good luck to you.

Why did she choose him to have the HCPOA?
It doesn't sound as though your relationship or his is particularly close.
With regard to your question on no contact and regret - MY answer is NO I have no regrets that I didn't see my father who I had seen very little of for 20 years, it was his choice to be cut himself off from me and my family and he was a real introvert so I left him to it - plus there were some financial issues where he thought he was entitled to monies from us for some unknown reason but as he was bipolar one never quite knew what his mental thinking was. However every case is different and every person is different, it depends how you know you will feel. The fact I knew it would not affect me is not the same as how you know it will affect you or any one else would feel. This is so dependent on the person and indeed the people concerned that no one can answer this question for you - but if you don't want to then there should be no feelings of guilt if this is the choice you make.

Twillie: Since you stated that your mother is exasperated with your kindness to her, I believe that you have your answer.

My husband went no contact with his mom with dementia towards the end of her life.

This happened when he visited her one day in her apartment and told her that with advanced COPD, she shouldn't be smoking. She threw him out, saying that she was going to call APS and claim elder abuse and shouted at him that he had always preferred his father (who died when he was 7) to her.

It was distressing and sad. When the end was near, I quite literally bribed him and dragged him to see her once last time.

The fault, if there was one, was certainly not his. He realized that he was a trigger for her anger and anxiety and that as much as he loved her, his going to see her set her off.

He kept in touch through his brother who was POA and who was skilled in calming her and getting her to be somewhat compliant.

While my BIL's approach to her medical care was not our idea of ideal, she had chosen him as her POA for health and finances.

If a parent makes a choice, I think we need to respect that.

Maybe, TW, your mom doesn't want to be taken to doctors any more. In retrospect, that was my MIL's wish as well.

My mother moved in with one of my siblings who ended up using my mother in all ways whilst she actually neglected her, to enjoy a fuller life my mother unknowingly was helping fund. That sibling told a lot of lies to my mother about the rest of the family and tried to alienate her from the rest of the family. Luckily that sibling wasn't the POA and so when my mother no longer had mental capacity, we could restrict access to funds and make decisions that were in my mother's best interest. If you have POA or can challenge your brother's position as POA, then you can make changes for your mother. You mother isn't probably even given the letters or presents you send her, if your brother is like my sibling. She is brainwashed. When I use to try to share what I could with my mother when she was my siblings messenger, my mother would always say 'Oh they would never do that!'. Out of love for her children, it was beyond my mother to think that any of her children could be so abusive and narcissistic. My mother is now in a home and for her sake, I just act like we are all happy and get on at face value but that sibling has certainly ruined the family that was once very close.

I avoided a firm expressed ‘no contact’, and just did what I felt like at the time. For example, I sent a brief condolence when I learned that his second wife had died, and that was the first contact in a couple of years. My memory is that he left a return phone message (always helpful in the middle of the night here), and I didn’t follow that up. There is no need to make a firm decision, and it’s less stressful to avoid it. His last ‘message’ to his daughters was his will, which left everything to the latest flattering sponge. No, I have no regrets.

So how is he preventing you from visiting your mother? Has he told the AL not to allow you in? If so, he should have good reason for it, not just saying who can/can't visit. Perhaps he's made up stuff. But, whether it's her thoughts and ideas or stuff he's tainted her with, it doesn't sound like your mother wants a relationship. It is sad if he's created this situation.

Curious what you mean when you say "...we are on the outs is I set a boundary by telling them I want a personal care agreement." If your mother is in AL, why would you need a personal care agreement? Generally the fee paid to the AL covers personal care. What is missing here?

Guardianship does override any POA, but as you've noted, they could fight you on this, with the end result being a third party being assigned. If there is dispute, and they have the means to pay an attorney, you would be up against two attorneys. Generally the courts can appoint an attorney for your mother, if she doesn't agree with anything. There's also need to be considered. Your profile does mention dementia (and yes, the court would still assign an attorney, which her funds would need to cover), so is this recent, several years, how far along is she? When our EC atty told me we couldn't "force" mom to move, he suggested guardianship. I seriously doubt they would have deemed her needing a guardian at that time (plus the facility selected wouldn't accept a committal), so we didn't go that route. The court would order testing and they would take HER need and want into consideration.

Your question implies YOU are going no contact. It sounds more like they've instituted no contact. Which is it? If they are refusing visits from you, there's nothing really to regret. Unless there was a way to force yourself in to visit, it is out of your control. I CHOOSE to go no contact with my OB. It helps that he isn't local, but he is NOT welcome here, ever again and I will not be seeking him out, whether by phone, email, text or pony express. YB situation isn't quite as bad, but for the things he has done, I really don't need him in my life. I won't be seeking him out. It might not be a hard wall between us, if he were to reach out, but I don't see that happening, so bye bye to him as well!

I will say due to circumstances at the time I was not able to see my dad in his final months. I wasn't shut out and didn't try to go no contact (medical issues), but I do have times I wish I could have seen him before he passed. Same with mom - we were shut out due to the virus. The two visits I was able to schedule didn't go as planned. There are things I would have done differently, but it's too late now.

For you, if they've shut you out, you can try to continue making contact in your own way, mailing letters or cards, sending flowers or some gifts, but otherwise unless you think legally you could win, THEY have set the stage for no contact, not you.

I agree with Send Help. I withdrew from contact with my toxic mother and have had no regrets. She made my life miserable for so many years. In my 40’s I finally decided I’d had enough. Nothing I said or did was going to make her happy, so I quit. No person’s life is worth more than mine. Don’t be afraid to do what is necessary to “save your own life.”

I informed my toxic family that until they learn to behave with respect towards me, there will be no contact what so ever. I do not need the drama.
Living with a narcist mother as her live in care giver, I have become firm but respectful towards her. That has diminished the drama a great bit. Our relationship is formal by their own choice, whether they want to accept responsibility ( which narcists never do ) for it or not

It is great that you are seeing a counselor now to work through any issues. Often times, individuals will have what is called "complicated grief" due to feelings of guilt and sadness with estranged family members. The counselor will help you see if there are other "boundaries" that you can live with that you may not have thought about. And if not, you are working through a lot of the emotions now to prevent your them from escalating after her death. I have been in your shoes with an estranged difficult mother and now have moments of vacillating sadness and relief, but no guilt after her passing 5 months ago. Stick with the counselor, if you can afford it. Wishing you the best.

It seems the family cortex is being tried more these days. I am not an expert here, but I do not believe the assisted living facility will bring an attorney in. Personally, I would get hold of an elder care attorney, and NOT stop visiting your mom. You need to be the one that steps up the game to stop the abuse. Your brother is doing all he can to make a case that you are the one who is abusive, he will do this by saying you are not visiting, calling her etc. Mom may have a dementia situation starting or going on or for that matter she is afraid of your brother and refuses to speak of it for what she believes will remove her from the home/care facility she currently lives. As heis her healthcare POA you need to get that power away from him. Challenge him no matter how hard or fragile your life is, you need to protect someone even more fragile. Your mom.
BEST wishes

What a great question, Twillie, and my condolences that you were forced to make this hard but healthy-for-you decision. It will interesting to see what others say here. I suspect we (I went NC too with abusive siblings and low contact/almost NC with abusive narc mother two years ago) will have regrets, but we have to remind ourselves when the time comes that we were forced to make the choices we made to keep our health and sanity.

If I may add a question on to yours, how do we grieve the loss of the parent when they are still alive?

Wishing you all the best.

Nope. But I had a good therapist before I made the decision, and who could have supported me after making the decision, but I didn't need that because my boundaries were clear as day to me, and still are, nearly 30 years after he died.

It is also about choices. If you mother and brother CHOOSE to alienate you, then you have absolutely no reason to feel guilty. My advice is move on with your own life and do not hang out where you are not wanted.

Now I took care of my mom for 15 years all by myself, but her healthcare needs were incredibly complex including insulin-dependent diabetes and extremely advanced Alzheimer's disease, and miraculously she lived to be 90. Alzheimer's disease did NOT kill mom--God did due to wore out kidneys from all those years of diabetes. She was on hospice for two years, and I used them like a home clinic and they renewed all her routine medications including insulin, needles and accucheck test kits and strips. All she took was insulin and Lopressor. She never needed any narcotics or psychotropics, and I controlled her behavior not with drugs, but daily exercise. I walked mom everyday for 5 years until she utterly forgot how to stand. She was only bedridden for 2-1/2 months but it was a horrible struggle to keep her moving.

BUT I stayed in contact with my brothers continuously AND involved them with her plan of care although I did all the work so that they could live their own lives. Oh they heard it ALL from me including her scheduled bowel movements with enormous detail. That is how it SHOULD be.

It's been 1-1/2 years since mom died and I miss her terribly everyday. She was my universe. I managed somehow to forge my own life...but everyday I miss mom badly.

It sounds like you are going to have to mend your relationship with your brother but if it is impossible and your mother also wants to cut you out, there is nothing you can do. You have to write them off both as already gone and just go on with your life.

My Daddy (90) is in assisted living. My sister is allowed to make all his decisions. What facility he went to what phone he uses when he goes out and with whom. She calls him by his first name.
When I lived close by I wanted to go visit. He told me that he was to busy with his chores and plans. When he couldn't understand what I was saying on the phone I told him about the phone you read. He said that he didn't believe me. Told my sister -she didn't look into it.
You get the picture. I had to walk away. It still hurts BUT I had to realize it is their choice not mine.
Now I am thousands of miles away and he wants me to visit. My finances are not able at the moment. His are. I think I will just present to him that he can pay for the trip and I will be there.
I have never shown him anything but the love and concern he deserves.

I don't know you, your brother or mother so my opinion is based on what you have written. Maybe your brother is a bully. Maybe you really do want to care for your mother but are prevented. Or maybe you are playing the victim here.
I have a sister who only visits our mother every month or so. She has lots of advice on mother's care but doesn't participate more because she claims I don't include her in decision making. She has told me many times that I am on my own and states her reasons why I am to blame for her decision. She forgets that I've asked her twice to help me because I am burned out. By making my supposed behavior the reason she can't help with our mother her life is much easier. When our mother passes, she will tell herself and anyone who will listen that she wanted to help but I wouldn't let her. She will assuage any guilt she has by playing the victim. Based on your post, I suspect you will do the same.

That sounds terrible. Unfortunately, human behaviour is widely variable, and unfortunately many people have a huge capacity for some really terrible behaviour.

In my life of dating, I've come to realize just how RARE it is to have been raised in a family where the parents don't cause chaos for their children.

As another has said. No matter what you do in life, somebody is going to complain, you can cut off your own left hand to feed your family and somebody will still call you greedy for not giving your right arm as well.

Live your life.

No.

Father died in 2018 and I hadn't spoken to him once in the 4 years prior to his death. I don't regret cutting off communication at all, perhaps partially helped by the fact that he left cr*p for me to sort out even after he died even though we hadn't communicated in years. And by this I mean that he had specifically engineered situations to manifest after his death just for sh!t* and giggles. He would have thought it was funny; I didn't.

I think a great deal of the narrative around how we're supposed to think that blood is thicker than water enables some truly awful behaviour by relatives that wouldn't ever be tolerated otherwise. You have one life, you don't need unpleasant people in it just because you happen to be related to them.

You should continue contact with your mom and seeing her at least once a month

When narc family members are involved, there are always regrets no matter WHAT. Regret we couldn't have a normal relationship. Regret we couldn't go to them for emotional support. Regret for standing by them, regret for stepping back. Regret for caring too much, regret for not caring enough. Regret for not being the daughter they wanted, regret for trying so hard for so long to BE that daughter and failing.

With all those regrets already at play, don't add in another regret of sticking around even longer so you can get kicked in the gut again and again, still trying to achieve the impossible. THAT will turn out to be the biggest regret of all.

Recognize when enough is enough and when it's time to take care of YOURSELF. Leave your brother to look after your mother and for her to blame HIM when she decides his actions aren't good enough. Leave them to each other. Birds of a feather and all that.

Good luck moving forward now.

I also had to go no contact with mother and brother. Both are now deceased. I don't feel bad because of the no contact, but because of the necessity of having to do it. Wish it had been possible to have a normal family life, but it is what it is.

TWillie, since it isn't just your brother, but your mom as well who gaslights you and rejects your help, I'm not sure why you continue to try to involve yourself.

Mom seems happy with the situation as is. Why do you have difficulty accepting that?

As to guardianship, is your mother incompetent to make her own decisions? The bar for competency is pretty low; unless your mother is totally in lala land, no judge is going to take away her right of self-determination.

I am going to ask you a question.

Instead of, having regrets from ‘no contact’ would you regret it if you had continued your relationship?

Most times it is for very good reasons that a person stops contact.

It’s precisely as you describe, when I set a boundary about this or that and if they couldn’t handle it, all h*ll breaks loose, right?

Yep, happened in my family too. I got the shock of my life. My brother actually apologized to me. So did my mom.

Many, many times this doesn’t happen and you know what?

I wasn’t expecting a reconciliation with my brother.

I would have remained no contact with my brother if I had to.

I decided that I would live in peace and if that meant bye bye, brother, so be it.

I am glad that it worked out between my brother and I.

I don’t hold grudges. I never hold onto negative energy.

I hope things work out for you and your mom. Your brother has to make his own choices in life. You aren’t responsible for what he chooses.

When I closed the door, I did not open it again. Let your brother think about his actions.

I called my mom’s phone to speak with her. My brother answered it and immediately apologized and told me that he placed mom in a hospice house because he couldn’t do anymore and he finally understood what I had been through when I was mom’s caregiver.

Wishing you all the best.

I was no contact with an OB for 12 years before he died. Zero guilt, sadness, regret.

I will probably also lose my MIL before I ever speak to or see her again (her choice to ask me to leave her alone forever)--I was hanging in there, trying, but to no avail. She simply hates me.

I doubt I will attend her funeral, who knows? I'm supposed to sing at it, but have already told DH that I will not. Both of the people she had asked to speak have also said they will not participate, so it's going to be a short service. And sad, really.