Hi all, update to the family drama. I’ve been NC with my narcissist brother since September and low contact with my mom (no visits). Have taken her birthday, Christmas, and a few sundry items, and seasonal clothing being kept at my house. She does not communicate with me - no phone calls and no thanks.

NC from brother since September since he’s gotten more abusive towards me. I’m certain he bullies and abuses my mom too (financially, verbally and emotionally) and I filed a report with APS but when they interviewed her she said everything is fine. So I cut out! Brother and wife are traveling the country in RV, have HCPOA over her but never see her more than once a month. Meanwhile she was moved to 2 miles from me and I was initially so happy until he reared his ugly head, Assisted living is allowing him to do that even though a HCPOA is required to live in-state.

He has brainwashed and isolated me from my mom by bullying and intimidating me, won’t let me take her to docs, or visit with her. He is not taking care of her needs. Part of why we are on the outs is I set a boundary by telling them I want a personal care agreement. They refused - their cynicism and distrust won’t allow me to have any involvement with financial decisions - they are afraid I will get a nickel.

My plan is to hold out till Assisted Living has to get a lawyer involved to appoint a guardian because sooner or later he’s not going to be there for her when she needs him. I made these decisions knowing I might never get to see my mother again but I had to in order to get any peace. I just hope I don’t regret it so I’m also talking to a counselor. Thanks!

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I also had to go no contact with mother and brother. Both are now deceased. I don't feel bad because of the no contact, but because of the necessity of having to do it. Wish it had been possible to have a normal family life, but it is what it is.
Helpful Answer (20)
Reply to rovana
NeedHelpWithMom Apr 11, 2021
Perfect answer. Those were my sentiments.

We do what we have to do. Right? Trust me, it seemed like a miracle to get an apology.

Every family has their issues at some point in time.
When narc family members are involved, there are always regrets no matter WHAT. Regret we couldn't have a normal relationship. Regret we couldn't go to them for emotional support. Regret for standing by them, regret for stepping back. Regret for caring too much, regret for not caring enough. Regret for not being the daughter they wanted, regret for trying so hard for so long to BE that daughter and failing.

With all those regrets already at play, don't add in another regret of sticking around even longer so you can get kicked in the gut again and again, still trying to achieve the impossible. THAT will turn out to be the biggest regret of all.

Recognize when enough is enough and when it's time to take care of YOURSELF. Leave your brother to look after your mother and for her to blame HIM when she decides his actions aren't good enough. Leave them to each other. Birds of a feather and all that.

Good luck moving forward now.
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Reply to lealonnie1
NeedHelpWithMom Apr 11, 2021
Enough is enough says it all! We all have a limit. We all have a breaking point too.
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My heart hurts for you. I was in a similar situation (not exactly the same), and my father passed away 9 months ago. I was secondary HCPOA and my sister was primary, and I had to officially resign my secondary role to be able to find my peace.

I started with a therapist online about 3 months before my father died. I worked with her weekly, then every other week, then once a month, and now I am talking to her online about once every 3 months. I really needed intense help when I first started learning about narcissistic abuse. I began to learn that it infected my family since the very beginning, likely beginning with my grandfather. According to Dr. Ramani, a very good psychologist who has a daily You-Tube video series, there are five reasons one stays in a narcissistic relationship: guilt, fear, hope, lack of knowledge about narcissistic abuse, and curiosity. I had to work through each one of these, and the last one was curiosity, which I have been able to drop since Christmas.

So, no, I do not regret resigning my secondary HCPOA. But I had to tackle every one of those five issues.
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Reply to usamurray
Twillie Apr 10, 2021
Thank you - this is great support!
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With every goodbye, we learn.
I have no regrets for going no contact with my mom.
It was necessary for my survival, and I was helped
and supported by so many others at the time.
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Reply to Sendhelp
SnoopyLove Apr 10, 2021
With every goodbye we learn. Wow, that is so true.
I agree with Geaton. An AL would not get involved with guardianship. They are privately owned and usually a corporation. They would not go thru the expense. Guardianship is very expensive. What they would do is report to APS then APS would file for guardianship thru the State. She would become a Ward of the State with the State assigning a guardian. That guardian would take over her money and her care.

You could get guardianship. If you win, you may be able to use Moms money to pay for it. I think Medicaid allows it. Then you are fully in control. But, u will be obligated to report to the State how Moms money is spent. Which will protect you if brother questions where the money went.
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Reply to JoAnn29
Twillie Apr 10, 2021
Yes I have considered guardianship for several years however I’m concerned about getting reimbursed for my up-front legal expenses and the battle it would be with my brother. I could easily win in court. I’m going to keep considering it. Thank you.
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I was no contact with an OB for 12 years before he died. Zero guilt, sadness, regret.

I will probably also lose my MIL before I ever speak to or see her again (her choice to ask me to leave her alone forever)--I was hanging in there, trying, but to no avail. She simply hates me.

I doubt I will attend her funeral, who knows? I'm supposed to sing at it, but have already told DH that I will not. Both of the people she had asked to speak have also said they will not participate, so it's going to be a short service. And sad, really.
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Reply to Midkid58
disgustedtoo Apr 13, 2021
Except for attempting to be nice, and to work out distribution, it's been just about 3 years now for me, no contact with OB.

Nice = mom had stroke around Labor Day. I wrestled with telling him, as it had been over 2.5 years since I cut off contact. My sense of "right" won out, so I sent email to let him know. 15 hours later, reply was "Thanks for update." Keep in mind he's one of those types who has their face planted in the phone all the time!

Distribution = mom passed from a second stroke mid-December. It made sense for all of us to do the same "move" of funds from the trust, to keep cap gains to a minimum.

At no time were there chats or text messages, just email. There are still some loose ends to tie up, but unless there is a MUST contact need, I'm done. He was abusive (physical, psychological, emotional) when we were kids. Later teens/college years, we weren't around each other much. Post college he moved away. The few times we were all together, others were there too. Like many others, I likely chalked it up to being kids.

Sadly I missed the warning signs during the few trips here he took to help with mom's condo. In hindsight, that abusive personality has ALWAYS been there, it's just mostly under the surface. The constant complaints about co-workers and doctors, like he's the genius who knows it all. In discussion with his daughter, she's been victim too. He was pretty nasty to mom, according to YB, when here to get the move to MC done.

Once in a while it shows itself, which it did here, 3 years ago. DONE DONE DONE with him, period. I don't care what he has to say for himself. I don't need you, I don't want you. I certainly don't need or want someone beating up on me! Stay down south where you live and forget you had a sister! YB isn't quite as bad, but I'm finished with him too. I've pretty much been going it alone for several years now, overseeing everything for mom. Initially I tried to keep the three of us informed and giving input to care, etc. That fell apart, so fine. YB was also POA, never used it for anything. All 3 were trustees of the trust fund, but not ONCE have they asked anything or wanted information about how it was used. GAK.

Hopefully sooner than later I will be an ONLY child!
HI Twillie, my heart hurts for the hard decisions you had to make. You are a worthy person and you are entitled to have peace in your life. From your post, it seems that you are being prevented from having a relationship with your mom, and that's something your brother and SIL need to take ownership of, not you.
The fact that your mom has not reached out or thanked you for the things you have done for her speaks volumes. You should NOT feel any regrets for saving your sanity and having a stress-less life. Listen to your counselor and practice the exercises he/she gives you. You are NOT a bad person for stepping away. Big hugs to you
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Reply to Maple3044
marymary2 Apr 13, 2021
Great answer. Same situation - so I should not send a Mother's Day card since she ignored and did not open (I sent ecards since she said she doesn't like mail) any of the various holiday and other cards I've sent since no contact? (She's not sent me any holiday or birthday cards though she loves to send to others....). Very hard to give up the dream of having a loving mother....
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I am going to ask you a question.

Instead of, having regrets from ‘no contact’ would you regret it if you had continued your relationship?

Most times it is for very good reasons that a person stops contact.

It’s precisely as you describe, when I set a boundary about this or that and if they couldn’t handle it, all h*ll breaks loose, right?

Yep, happened in my family too. I got the shock of my life. My brother actually apologized to me. So did my mom.

Many, many times this doesn’t happen and you know what?

I wasn’t expecting a reconciliation with my brother.

I would have remained no contact with my brother if I had to.

I decided that I would live in peace and if that meant bye bye, brother, so be it.

I am glad that it worked out between my brother and I.

I don’t hold grudges. I never hold onto negative energy.

I hope things work out for you and your mom. Your brother has to make his own choices in life. You aren’t responsible for what he chooses.

When I closed the door, I did not open it again. Let your brother think about his actions.

I called my mom’s phone to speak with her. My brother answered it and immediately apologized and told me that he placed mom in a hospice house because he couldn’t do anymore and he finally understood what I had been through when I was mom’s caregiver.

Wishing you all the best.
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Reply to NeedHelpWithMom

It is great that you are seeing a counselor now to work through any issues. Often times, individuals will have what is called "complicated grief" due to feelings of guilt and sadness with estranged family members. The counselor will help you see if there are other "boundaries" that you can live with that you may not have thought about. And if not, you are working through a lot of the emotions now to prevent your them from escalating after her death. I have been in your shoes with an estranged difficult mother and now have moments of vacillating sadness and relief, but no guilt after her passing 5 months ago. Stick with the counselor, if you can afford it. Wishing you the best.
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Reply to Ethicist1949

I agree with Send Help. I withdrew from contact with my toxic mother and have had no regrets. She made my life miserable for so many years. In my 40’s I finally decided I’d had enough. Nothing I said or did was going to make her happy, so I quit. No person’s life is worth more than mine. Don’t be afraid to do what is necessary to “save your own life.”
Helpful Answer (6)
Reply to HattieG
marymary2 Apr 13, 2021
Exactly - and the sooner the better. I waited too long. Now I endure the endless questions about why I was so selfish to never have children or be married. Yeah, "selfish". If I knew to be selfish back then rather than caring for my mother over myself, I might have those things.
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