Anyone else tired of being told to "give it up to GOD" or that you are "being prayed for"...earnestly?

Dear Jsomebody,

I did not intend my response to be "religious BS" "jargon" or in any way judgemental or harassing. I thought I had heard your cry, understood your anger and resentment, and taken the philosophical argument to its logical conclusion. I'm not condemning your thoughts, just exploring them ... where do they lead? Is it where you wanted to go?

Also, I did not reject or denegrate your opinion of many religious people. I've seen the same attitudes and can clearly see and hear why you feel that way. I'm not harranging you, castigating you, or trying to hurt you, I know you are dealing with a very difficult situation, and sometimes the only vent available is to blame others - but I didn't do those things you've laid at my feet, and neither did God. Should people judge who you are by looking at how your grandfather treats you? People let you down - they always will. People aren't perfect.

You asked me specifically if "my God" would be responsible for your life if you believed in Him. That's a funny question. You see, I believe "my God" is sovereign. I believe He is in control, even when it hurts, even when I can't see Him, even when a baby dies. I believe "my God" allows me the freedom of free-will. Lots of times I don't understand it, and the pain is hard to bear, and man oh man ... do I hear you! I want to beg and plead and cry out, "WHERE ARE YOU?" But I've explored the depths ... and I KNOW "my God" is Just. I'm not preaching to you, or trying to make you believe in "my God" ... just answering your question as best as I can.

Be easy - lets drop the stereotyped "religious bigot" speech, and try to really see who we both are. I think I see you, and I recognize the hurt and anger. I'm not trying to rain on your pity party, just humming a little counterpoint to spice it up. ;>
~FyreFly
"It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt!"

I don't know. I am not a nice person I was raised by smart people and my father was a rank jerk, very cynical and sarcastic, that will warp a child.

I am bigoted against religion because I think it makes people not think for them selves, like there is any thing wrong with that.

I am sorry if I hurt you but I meant to, see, bitter mean nasty. I have been angry and snappish for along time. I don't want to be I don't know. I can't see myself as a accepting happy loving person, I care but i keep my distance. People have been very unkind to me in my life, the ones who were not stand out it profound relief, now I bring it on myself most of the time.

I am angry and resentful that some people seem to have good lives, came from loving families where they were cared for and respected not abused and humiliated.

I do understand your idea that not so much that is is all good but that it is "OK" so to speak, That all things in life can I don't know that death isn't terrible and that there will be peace and understanding.

But like the Jewish people after the holocaust I can put God on trial and find a great deal to be resentful for.

I do not find it easy to come to terms with "loving god" and so much cruelty and suffering in the world. and I do not do devils. It would be easier to think there is no god and it is all biology and society and selfish hateful men but I need to believe there is god somewhere and that there will be justice and peace at the end. What an awful feeling that there is nothing and it is all just here and then just dead, dirt, no soul going on..

There are people who have had worse than me and are better people than me. I don't want to be a bad person but I think I just am.

Thank you for being so honest and open. Perhaps that in itself is a therapeutic release ... a catharsis of sorts. Knowing who you are is an important step in becoming who you want to be

I agree with you about that "awful feeling" ... it's a lot to take in, and not for the faint-hearted. Just let me say (without putting any religious spin on it) ... don't give up yet. I think you are conscious, aware, and realistic, but have a hard time removing yourself and your thoughts from the years of anger, resentment, and disgust you've felt at being stuck where you are.

Change happens one step at a time ... and even you have to take that first step, then the next ... and now I can hear the lyrics of the Eagles (The Wall) blazing through my head. Sez it better than I ever could ...

"I'm woving in a fanasy, I can't believe the things I see. The path that I have chosen now has led me to a WALL. It rises now before me, the dark and silent barrier between, ALL I am, and all that I would ever want to BE ... it's just a travesty ..."

Forgive me if my choice in music dates me - I live in such lyrics :) Music is my escape hatch.
~FyreFly

I know about music. I dropped out of high school at 14 went to my room took all the furniture out and lived in music for the better part of a decade. all kinds. rock, folk, classical, jazz. heavy metal, easy listening, opera, big band, disco, Latin, I just dissolved....and I wouldn't take it back.

J- crazy parents will do that to ya.....took off at 20 and was told I ran away...yeah right..you betcha!

Had a good set of parents so I never had to run away. Now that I'm all grown up, I think about running away all the time. With my luck, I'd probably get lost.

I ran inside, so I have different issues than someone who was brave and ran and made there own way. I just kept house, read a lot listened to music and watched the years/decades roll by. People graduated from High School got in bad relationships went to community college got in other relationships got married and kids and thirty year mortgages before they knew what hit em. Was not gonna be my life even if I wanted it. And I don't I can't be around people much, not anti-social well except on line just solitary.

i think I missed whole developmental stages..does it show? Still I am not stupid enough to think I am not responsible. It has been my life since I was 18. I am not responsible for my parents choices, their happiness or unhappiness, but it is my fault if I make the same bad choices. Least with out children I won't make the next generation o f miserable sots in this world...

Why IS life so hard and complicated? Why can't some things just be easy?

I was buddhist for several years. (As you know, Buddha DID NOT think to be God, and Buddhism cannot be considered an organized religion). I found many answers about injustice, suffering, lack of meaning... Then I stopped studying the Buddhism. I guess I didn't have the right mentality, as I am completely western-minded, and I found everything too theoric... But nevertheless it gave me some relief.
I will probably re-open some of my old books.
But I insist that you have to find a meaning and peace in yourself. If any kind of religion can help you, well. If any kind of religion makes you feel worse, forget it. There are many many ways (meditation, breathing, yoga...) You have to find "yours"!

Now you are prophetic I just started a yoga program I found on TV for free. I have my mat and everything. As I can't find answers right now breathing will be enough!

I know Buddha was the teacher not a "God Head". Though I still think it is tacky to rub his belly at Chinese restaurants..what a guarantee you wont get food poisoning?

Yoga is good. I am glad.
I don't like to rub Buddha's belly, but i had a small collection of little Buddha statues and I liked them, because they laughed or smiled. They put me in a good mood.

Hey a smiling guide, is better than an angry zealot carrying a gun guru who wants ya to kill or die for em any day...

Yes indeed!!, its just that no one ever thinks they would be responsible for a parent!! And when you knew how they were when you were growin up, you get confused at this stage in their life, and you giving up yours!!!!!!

Absolutely! That's why I liked buddhism. Anyhow, the church has made of Jesus a much gloomer figure than he probably was.

I'm checking out of this thread with my second attempt and unchecking the notify me box. I hope it works this time.

It is a total role reversal, you become the stronger one physically mentally, you become the one who has answers and knows where to look for things, you think about what is ok for them and that you must now protect them. I have noticed ever so slightly my mothers seeking my advice on things and needing my help, not just looking after her father, and it is scary, annoying, inevitable and MY choice to do it. I will take care of my mother. I do not care to be with out my mother even if I should of would be better of. I honestly feel if my mother died i would commit suicide once my pets were gone and I took care of house hold goods. Emeshed? Pathetic? I just don't want to be away from my mother.

The button is always there when you get tired of listening to other grouse, or feel they have gone too far. I have not clicked off any of mine and have like 80 e mails when I turn the computer on. but I want to know what people have to say. about things that interest me. Still it is best to stay away from bullying and baiting behavior and comments.

I have now tried for the 2nd time to get off of this thread by unchecking the box below. What is this not working?

J, I met a good friend for breakfast this morning. Her mom passed this April and she always said when Mom dies, she would kill herself. She was never in a relationship and lived with her mom all her life. Her mom turned 100 last September and a few of us who had worked with Shirl got her a cake and threw her a party. We had a great time. Long story short. Shirl really misses her mom and gets very lonely, but she has a few good friends that keep an eye on her and make sure she gets out to eat once and a while. We had a great time this morning and are planning to get together again soon.
You will have friends to help you too, when the time comes.

I am not sure crowe, check in it when this one comes up and log off and then come back on and see if it goes away...

Right now I am trying to live by the rule "do no harm." Sometimes it is really really hard to not yell at my mom because she forgot what she is doing today or If I have to clean up her messes, or if I have to pick her up to put her in her wheelchair and she messes up my back when she tries to "help me". That is all I can do right now. I can love her but not like her very much sometimes. I dont think i have to like her all the time. Sometimes she is not likable. Oh Well... Fortunately or unfortunately this discussion is really not going to change anyone's mind, but maybe it will show you that you are really not alone. That there are people out there that care about your whether you believe the same thing or not. You are a human being who is hurting and that is really what caregivers do. They try to help and do no harm. Sometimes I want to believe but circumstance and people prove me wrong time and time again. Depressing but as long as we are talking about it and not yelling there is some hope in not in god then in the fact that there is some small spark of good people out there.

Some people turn to God. Other's turn to psychic's and if that doesn't work, they use drugs. I guess it comes down to whatever floats your boat. What is a certainty in life, though, is that whatever burdens you carry will eventually come to an end and hopefully sooner than later.

Definitely the "What ever gets you through the night" theme works for religion as well as drugs and faith, cookies and warm milk. Some nights are harder than others and longer. One shouldn't judge what others need. But we do, constantly, we judge and discredit and laugh and say ah but you are so foolish why do you think the way you do? If a flat white man in the sky who controls all things and agrees with you is what works for you, there is nothing wrong with that. Never the less there is plenty to disagree with and well, that is ok too. It is called disagreeing and the world isn't gonna blow up because of it, no matter how much some of us want it too, for Biblical proofs and such.

If you need it so much that no matter what someone else says or doesn't agree with one about you still tell your self "Ah but they are wrong, unhappy and do not know what I KNOW..etc." Well I imagine that is human and self buttressing and inevitable. But be prepared to be disagreed with, no matter how much it bugs you, your “TRUTH” really isn’t. While I don't believe "Man created God" in that sense, I do believe man refined god to suit his own needs, GOD is almost always a "he" and white where "he" is wanted to be white and black where wanted black etc..."God the Father" sounds like ancestor worship to me. And the sexist, patriarchal position of most religions sounds far more like what men want and need to believe as being god, than god. Most imaginings of god paint a creature with profoundly man type and human man type needs and wishes, where women and dirty and evil and the tool of satan and men are the lords of ALL they see/own. It is too too obvious to me. Why would god need a penis any way I mean exactly? God the father eh? So where is the mother.? Ancient man womb envy and desire for social control looks like the back ground of most religions to me, not miracles, articles of faith or simple tales of a world long gone and how the people survived. Religion to me is social control and the creation of bias and hierarchies that men all around the world benefit from to this day and therefore perpetrate. I mean, would men support a religion that told them they were un-worthy and un-clean, non-entities here to do the bidding of others and to be regarded as less than human as right and fact and duh? If GOD created all life and woman creates life from her very body, why would GOD find this offensive? Unless this so envision “GOD” was a man who could not do that himself? Envied and feared the creative and mysterious power of women, these are people from some 2,000 years ago mind you, and so decided to try and trump her gifts and power and say the ultimate act of creation, all this…“Yeah a MAN did it, a really big one, in the sky, He looked just like me! Yeah and if you don’t do what I say, cause I am a man and we are men and you are not, well you are gonna go and burn and writhe in hell for all eternity…because “God Loves You“…Moronic. Obvious and Moronic. And I don’t need it thank you.

Google "Lilith" and "The Great Mother".
A "character" who exists from the time of Adam and Eve!

Hmmmm there where historians writing down facts hmmm at the time of Adam and Eve?......lol I heard it was another book of the bible that did not get in...wonder who made that decision....seems there are many books that some committee back in the day...said yea or nay. Funny how if you keep this in mind people swear by every word in the bible. Gee did they know there were many more books written. But ah gee some of those might be controversial and might be contrary to the other books...hmmm if they knew what was in those controversial books..wonder if they still would swear by every word in the bible....just an enhanced thought here.

No pouncing allowed......!

I think enough has been said on this subject - I'd like to give room for others to "vent".JSomebody, I wish you well-- hopefully "god" will take your granddaddy soon and you won't have to suffer so much misery!

.....................gee was there not enough room on the internet for this post?

ROTFLMAO!

Thank you maraljake, it is an irritating on going discussion but many people have opted out when they no longer wish to take part. I understand the tone is very "God Bashing" and it is hurtful to many, that is why I said "Don't read if it bothers you" I meant it, not like tempting a four year old but like if you are uncomfortable with it please do not feel the need to read or respond if you wish. I have had a couple people say "That is enough of this" that usually means I have had enough of this and I want you to stop. But that is not fair just because one or two people want others to stop talking about something they are uncomfortable with. No one is forcing them to stay here. Crowe clicked to not get the updates it is an ok thing to do. If you disagree you can say so, if you don't want to go on with it you can click the no updates box and it will stop coming to your email box and that will end that.

Eh good days and bad. He goes when he goes, but I won't become a Christian when he is gone, that is not the way I feel I was a heretic before.

Thank you for your support though.

Hey Pirate and Rosella, Yes the old what really is "Gospel". Nothing to me, but historians have known along time about other works of those times that dd not get by the Nicene Court and voted into the Bible, Ah Lilith the first wife, the Bitchy one...also the two different tales of Adam and Eve in Genesis are interesting and then the so where did the wives for the sons come from. I am not a Christian, so none of it means much to me. It is sincerely felt by many others but well, they don't have to listen to my grousing. If you believe something you believe it.

People believe what they want and need to, it helps them, it feeds their souls. I guess, I am a hypocrite I defend it and I think it is stupid, but so what. The religious people will consider me a lost, blasphemous soul and a test of their own faith, while I consider them childish, uneducated and wantonly stubborn in their views so every body wins.

One of the strongest motivating forces for any belief system, no not denial, is the feeling of being righteously despised, that is that one feels one is part of a picked on or badly treated minority. whether this is true in fact or not it is a group solidifying and identifying feelings, the "US" and "THEM" thing, works for any group. We are right they are wrong and if we are not careful they will destroy us all.

In history that does actually happen literally, hell it happens now in Africa, killing and raping and maiming of "THOSE NOT US" , modern day genocide. Granted, greed is always at the back of this no matter what scriptural excuse they offer...US and Mexican gangs, The Muslim groups who hate us only slightly more than they hate each other...
there has to be a "them" for there to be an "us". For some people you can't be and "us" without and oppositional "them".

For the religious people who read this, yes, it is the devil that others don't agree with you, all that I think is all false doctrine and I am going to hell and everyone who disagrees with you will also be duly punished by GOD...Thank You.


I am damned, because I believe that a Governments Prime responsibility should be to it's people, ALL of them, not just the rich ones.Fine with me, I will take that on.

Why do these closed views so often go hand in hand...or foot in mouth, conservative ideology politically and organized religion? Control, greed, bigotry? I guess that is why Bullshit and smoke screens and mud slinging were created. Distraction from facts.

Granted, it is not as extreme for everyone, People just have different ideas about how they want things done. I feel personally, many religious conservatives truly take brother keeper to heart as well as the polls. They resent being told it is un-christian to judge and blame the poor for being so and then turn around and want the right to control others lives. They want no constraints on big business but wish to legislate every personal behavior imaginable. I get the feeling they view others rights, that offend them personally, as infringing on their freedoms. Literally. That you, "Whom I so despise, are allowed to do or say such and such is infringing on MY freedoms to consider you less than me and kept in your proper place."

I know there are intelligent, compassionate republicans who simply have fiscally conservative views, but why are there so many on the right, who find the exalting of disrespect as an acceptable code and a response somehow to difference they disapprove of and stupidity as a rallying point for the running of a nation? Of all the things to use as a standard...

I agree with Jsomebody. If you dont want to read it then dont. Do not get updates. If enough people dont want to respond the thread will end and then in a few years someone will catch it again and the debate will start all over. The debate has been going on since time began and it will continue or die down then rise again. Everything is repeated anyway in some form or another.