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My sister lives in a different state than I do with her boyfriend. Her son has a POA but is mentally unable to perform what needs to be done. She is refusing to go to assisted living. What can her boyfriend do, as she is living with him and the care will fall to him?

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Speedskater: I know, right.
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If your sister is living with the boy friend, I would seek legal help in getting her out of his home and let the pieces lay where they land. He should NOT move out. She is the problem. Now if it is her home, then, yes, the boy friend should move out at once and sever the relationship. And if the son who has a POA does nothing, and cannot make the woman go to assisted living, then the boy friend should report the entire situation to Adult Protective Services and to the Office on Aging. Someone must step in and take over for the son who can't do the job and someone must move this woman to the place where she belongs. And legally, I do not think the boyfriend has any obligations whatsoever to care for her financially or otherwise. I would suggest contacting the authorities and an elder care attorney for advice and I would do it soon before disaster strikes.
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pamzimmrrt Sep 2019
Maybe I misread this, but I got the impression that the BF wants to take care of her, and the son is the problem?
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Try and Hook your Wagon to the Son's POA(Can have more than One, hun)And INTERVENE. He is Living with her, can Opt to be Involved or NOT.
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Here in MD I often see the social workers say the SO does have rights if they have been living together for a significant amount of time. Not common law I don't think, but something else.. However if the POA fights this I don't know how that works.. in our inner city area most are glad to pass it on to another it seems.
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You ask "what can her boyfriend do, as she is living with him and the care will fall to him"."
Not a whole heck of a lot, or not for long, and your sister will deteriorate further.
Her own son is the person your sister chose. I did not know he was 54. I didn't know that his being "mentally unable" to do this was your own assessment of him, not a diagnosis of his actual condition. Which you now tell us is that basically you don't feel he is up to it.
I think that the best thing that can happen here is that your sister's son continue to serve as her POA. Please try to offer your support to him. It is a big job. I am sure it will be apparent to him when the sister's boyfriend is unable to care for her. That will mean she will need placement. Work with her son to understand how important record keeping is now so that the 5 year look back will show your sister's money went only for her own needs. If the son is unable to care for her, which is likely the case if you are right, then she will require placement.
I would not try to do anything unless you suspect there is neglect involved. That will likely mean your seeing a lawyer and trying to assume guardianship or have the court take on guardianship. I recommend the latter, because this is a very very very difficult job.
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"Not competent enough (to appoint a new POA) and is already refusing to go to assisted living. Not wealthy enough for home care and not sure of her financial situation about assisted living."

So (and sorry if some of our answers seem judgmental; YOU know the whole backstory, we don't. Thanks for clarifying the major points--the enabled man-child who can't/won't make good decisions for his mom; the fractured relationship between him and S.O; all adds up to a very big mess, yes?)

If SO decides to step away and your sister is incapable of caring for herself and the responsible party can't/won't step up, someone (you? SO?) calls APS and reports a vulnerable adult in need of care. The state steps in and takes over.

Sometimes with stubborn folks, this is actually the BEST scenario, because then they actually get the care they need.

The way I put it to folks is "look mom/dad/sis: you can either play ball with what we as a family think is best for you, OR we can walk away and let the state take over; they will decide where you live. Would you rather have family determine that, or that State of >>>(CT, NY, MS?).

But honey, you have to mean that you will walk away.
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Speedskater, I don't think that people are deliberately judging you. I think that, as you say, this is an unusual situation and we are trying to get more details, about what you have done in the past, what worked for you all and what didn't work. Using that as a base is a good a place to start as any other place.

No matter what, you all have your work cut out to get a solution. It is a bit late now to get a legal POA for your sister I would suggest that you need (not SHOULD) take that FACT as your jumping off point.

If were me, I would work on changing attitudes about continuing care facilities. Also, given that your sister's partner is 90 years old, how long is he going to be able to care for her on a 24/7 (I assume) basis. Being willing is all very well, but, believe me, there is nothing like "not getting sleep" for example, to challenge even the most willing of us.
Have you any idea why your sister is refusing to go "into care"?

I also think (my opinion) that YOU stay strong and not get sucked into all the drama. You have done your stint at caregiving --your MIL.

Has something happened to make this situation get to the stage that you are asking your questions now? Or is it a case of "we cannot keep on this way and need to do something now"?

Hang in here. We are simply sharing our experiences (and our opinions!) with you. Choose what seems "doable" and respectfully decline the other suggestions!!

Hugs to you all. This is not a simple dilemma that you are trying to sort out.
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So there is nothing wrong with the adult son that prevents him from exercising his mother's POA.

The boyfriend should work with your sister's healthcare team to come up with a care plan for your sister. They can then put it to the son for his agreement and action. If he *then* won't lift a finger and the situation continues to deteriorate, the son will be demonstrating that he is not able to use the POA effectively, in front of independent, credible witnesses who are also mandatory reporters, and balls will start rolling.

Beforehand, the boyfriend should sit down for a good think about what he is and is not prepared to do, and where his boundaries are. It will make it harder for him to get stuck with mission-creep care.

You should both stop rolling your eyes about the son and instead talk to him as neutrally as possible. He was given and accepted responsibility for his mother's welfare. Give him more opportunities to step up, and don't set him up to fail by being negative or hostile.

You may privately think that your sister was an idiot to pick him, and I might privately agree, but it happens all the time - she's not the only one to think that POA has to go to your Best Beloved.
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Speedskater Sep 2019
We are not "rolling our eyes" at the son (kind of an offense statement). We simply know him well enough to know that he can't/won't step up. Even now, he continues to press her for help in selling his house and when she doesn't understand and can't do what he wants he gets abusive. He will not even talk to her boyfriend, so I'm the one that has to call him despite having not talked to him for 18 years. Ironically, the boyfriend is his best hope to avoid doing anything and he won't talk to him. He has never talked to him in the 18 years she has been with him because he is jealous of the time his "Mommy" spends with him! Yes, she was an idiot to pick him and continues to be an idiot to think he will help or take care of her. She is an idiot because she's always been an idiot about him, it's not the Dementia. Don't appreciate the "shoulds" and judgement directed toward me regarding him. I know him and am simply stating fact when I am describing him. Starting to regret posting here as I seem to be getting judgement from some and I don't need that!
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YOUR SISTERS BOY FRIEND HAS NO RIGHTS AT ALL. HER SON IS THE ONE WITH THE POA AND HE HAS THE LEGAL RIGHT TO MAKE DECISIONS FOR HER, BUT THE BOYFRIEND, NO. NOTHING HE CAN DO OR SAY WILL CARRY ANY LEGAL RIGHT
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Why was the son made the agent if he was "mentally unable to perform what needs to be done?" Something seems amiss here.
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Speedskater Sep 2019
She has been an enabler for him for his whole life. He is a 53 year old who still needs his mommy to do everything for him and that will never change. When he says jump, she jumps willingly. It's more that he's useless rather than mentally incompetent. Even now, wither having dementia, he calls her to do things to help him and when she doesn't understand he gets mad at her. Her boyfriend suggested that she give him power of attorney (they have been together for 18 years and are married in all but on paper) and she still insists that her son will take care of her. It won't happen!
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you'd have to get an attorney on this one, maybe he can get guardianship?
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Speedskater, it could vary from area to area. My sig other and I have been together for over 15 years, and back when we didn't have Power of Attorney for each other, and found ourselves in the hospital, we had zero problems. But it could be different elsewhere.

It is very important for your sister to get a Medical Directive, so that the sig other and family members understands what your sister wants done when it comes to medical decisions.

If your sister's son is unable to to perform as financial and medical Power of Attorney, it is time for your sister to appoint someone else. She could appoint one person for the financial side, and someone else for the Medical side.

If your sister and her sig other have been together for many many years, I don't foresee him bolting. As what if the shoe was on the other foot, and he was the one who needed the medical care.
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Speedskater Sep 2019
I don't think he would bolt. He seems committed to helping. She won't revoke the POA from her son right now and he has just moved to another town and she is talking about leaving and moving in with him. If anyone is disloyal, it's her. She probably would bolt if the shoe was on the other foot.
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You do not say what is wrong with your sister? If her son has POA and is unable to perform those duties her significant other can do this if she withdraws appointment of son and assigns significant other. I am assuming they are long with one another and in trusting relationship. She can assign him to quite a few things, just as she could, in fact, assign a trusted friend. If they have not already done so, they might want to see an Elder Law Attorney before becoming LEGAL significant others; my Partner and I are "Domestic Partners" in the State of California. Federally that is not recognized. So we can file together for income tax in State of California, but not in Federal system yet have to send papers to feds to say we can legally do this in California and it all gets very complicated. Where it REALLY gets complicated is that it does in some states (check their own) "marry" you for all intent and purpose, say for medicaid qualifications and so on. I would not do it unless there is great benefit for you in some way, because getting out of it amounts to same procedure as for divorce and would need to happen for division of assets, and etc. Any time you have the Feds looking at you one way and the State another it isn't really a good thing.
Anyway, they should definitely go together to an Elder Law Attorney. Again, you do not say how disabled you sister is--that is in what manner, for if she has now gone into dementia she can no onger change the POA. Having a mentally unable son assigned would be a complete mess if they are NOT married or Domestic Partners, in so far as guardianship. I am saying, if someone else in family wants guardianship they are more likely to get it.
So key things here.
1. In what way is your sister disabled so that she cannot manage her own affairs
2. What are the LEGAL ways she and her significant other are attached
3. How long has she been with that person/how trustworthy does family she him to be
4. What other family is involved?
5. In what way is son "mentally" unable? What is his legal diagnosis? How did he get appointed if mentally unable?
I would suggest a trip to an elder law attorney.
I see below you said "not competent. That means she CANNOT change her POA to the boyfriend at all. You may eventually be looking at guardianship by the state. You don't want it. The boyfriend can't get it, and the current POA apparently cannot do it. It is kind of a mess. So very sorry.
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Speedskater Sep 2019
Sister has stage 2 Dementia. She lives with her significant other but they are not married. Relationship of 18 years. Other family unwilling or unable to get involved (my other sister seems very good at telling me what to do but would never step up herself and seems to think it is my responsibility). Significant other seems motivated to help and I don't see him bolting, but he is approaching 90 yrs old, so may be limited in what he can do. Son is basically useless and has been all his life. She has always enabled him, bailed him out, done everything for him, even now when he is 53 years old. No legal diagnoses for son, but has many, many issues that render him barely able to run his own life without her help.
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I don't think I understand why the son, your nephew, is unable to use his power of attorney. When you say he is "mentally unable" - for why? In what way?

Surely, if he had a known, well-established learning disability, or a debilitating mental illness, your sister would not have asked him to accept this responsibility; so what's the problem?
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Speedskater Sep 2019
He is basically just useless. She has enabled him for his whole life and he is basically a 53 year old that still makes his mommy do everything for him. He has never been diagnosed with anything, but he's not very good at handling things he doesn't understand and won't try. Has frustration and anger issues and has never been forced to stand on his own. He says jump and she jumps willingly. Her fault really and now she is paying for it.
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"What can her boyfriend do, as she is living with him and the care will fall to him?"

He can, if he so chooses, provide in-home care for as long as he can and wants to. No one will take that away. However, without POA (medical and financial), he likely will run into issues. There are forms the hospitals/doctors use that she might be able to sign to allow him at least access to medical care, but probably not decision making if she needed extensive treatment. Without DPOA he technically can't manage her finances. If they have a shared bank account and her income (retired?) is direct deposited, he *can* use the account to pay bills, however there are rules about that (esp SS)- so long as no one questions anything, it can work, but if he decides to walk away, what then?

"I can't take care of her and so far, he seems willing to do it. Time will tell. I really don't feel it is my responsibility. I have other siblings and they are unable to take responsibility either."

Although it still means participating and some effort on someone's part, please understand that having DPOA and MPOA DOES NOT REQUIRE the person to provide the CARE. You handle the finances and medical decisions, but you do not have to care for her. If one of you decides you can do this, at least temporarily, and you find an attorney who will test/accept her ability to sign, the old POAs can be negated and new POAs added. At least for the short term someone can be "in charge." POAs can also be declined at any time.

If no one takes on these tasks, someone will have to ensure that the state "takes over" and assigns guardianship. Once the state steps in, you have no say in anything, how her funds are used, what happens to any of her assets, where she lives, how she is cared for, what treatment she gets.

Also note (many don't understand this!) - having any kind of POA does NOT allow you to forcibly move anyone. You can choose a place, sign paperwork FOR the person, arrange payments from their funds, etc, but oftentimes trickery or a medical emergency is needed to facilitate the move, especially when they refuse (been there, done that with our mother!)
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AlvaDeer Sep 2019
And, according to what I have seen Cali and others post, if you are POA or official guardian it is very UNLIKELY you could ever get PAID as a caregiver, if that is what they are thinking. I think they should see a lawyer.
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boyfriends have no legal standing-- unless she appoints him POA; if she is not competent a court needs to appoint guardianship. Consents are done by next of kin--he cannot even sign a consent.
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Her boyfriend can be her caretaker as long as he is willing to do that. He has no legal obligation to do so nor does he have any legal rights to make decisions for her or handle her medical or financial affairs.

If she is competent she can revoke son's POA and designate boyfriend or somebody else.

It appears none of her children beyond the "incompetant" son are able or willing to take on her care.
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He has no rights. The hospital can even refuse him visitations.

this is one of the reasons Gay Rights movement fought for so many years to have the right to legally marry.
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(Looking this over, I see I may be a little bit grumpy this morning. If I offend anyone, I'm sorry in advance)

I'm wondering a little bit what's actually happening here? Your question is about what 'rights' her boyfriend has if he's not the PoA. You say you don't feel it is your responsibility. You say she has given her son Power of Attorney but he is not 'mentally able' to do what needs to be done. Sounds confusing.

Is her son cognitively impaired? struggling with mental illness? or do you just mean that he's having the customary amount of emotional turmoil over a parent's decline? or do you mean he's not doing what you think he should?

You say she is 'pretty much on her own if the boyfriend and/or son walk away' ... okay, but that's true for nearly everybody: if the closest live-in family walk away, we are on our own.

You also say she is refusing to go to AL and that the boyfriend seems willing to care for her.

So what's really the issue here?
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Speedskater Sep 2019
She has enabled her son his whole life. He is basically a 53 year old child that wants his mommy to do everything for him and she has complied with this her whole life. When he says jump she jumps. He has issues with anger and frustration and can barely handle his own life without her, so no, I don't think he is mentally capable of negotiating the system to get her help. He has never even talked to her signifigant other because he is resentful that said "signifigant other" took his mommy away from him! The only emotional turmoil he has is that she can't seem to do things for him anymore. He was starting to get abusive with her when she couldn't understand what he wanted her to do. As for my responsibility......I am adopted and 20 years younger than her. She has 2 other siblings that won't do anything and seem to think that because I stayed in touch with her and took care of our Mom when she had dementia that I am the one who is supposed to take care of her too. I just got done going thru this with my MIL also and I am done! I have health issues of my own as well as my husband having health issues and that is my priority here. Why am I responsible more than her other two siblings? The "issue" is that the boyfriend seems willing, but I'm not sure what he can and can't do. I was just asking what happens in a case like this. If it seems confusing, it's because it's complicated as situations like this usually are!
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She can become a ward of the state.
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Not competent enough and is already refusing to go to assisted living. Not wealthy enough for home care and not sure of her financial situation about assisted living.
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It all hinges on whether your sister can be judged mentally competent to make her own decisions and whether she understands and accepts that her son will fail in his duties as her POA. Because you asked this question, are you planning to take matters into your own hands? Her live-in really has no obligations to care for her if nothing to that effect is legally on paper and binding. He can just walk out if things become to stressful for him. If you see this on the horizon and want to become involved, investigate who drew up the original POA and see if they can help.
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Speedskater Sep 2019
I can't take care of her and so far, he seems willing to do it. Time will tell. I really don't feel it is my responsibility. I have other siblings and they are unable to take responsibility either. She is pretty much on her own if her boyfriend and/or son walk away from it all.
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Her boyfriend can do nothing. But sis can and maybe has had a new POA prepared, and then, only if she is considered competent can she sign it, then only if she is incompetent can boyfriend use it.
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Her boyfriend can refuse to care for her and move out.

What is your sisters plan for getting care for herself? Is she competent enough and wealthy enough to hire in-home caregivers?
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