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My mom has dementia and is getting worse. She gas been in NH for over a year on Medicaid. The nursing home received a letter from Medicaid asking if the house has been listed for sale yet because the 13 month waiver period is over. Mom refuses to give me (only child) poa of any kind, financial or medical. She refuses to sign papers to sell house. She says she's going home but there is no way. Will Medicaid eventually put the house up for sale in their own? I don't care. I don't want it. I am I ohio.

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Tina, I am totally hearing where you're coming from. I too am an only child of my mom, but she is in the very early paranoid stages of dementia (Alzheimers). She will never agree to leave her house. And I do have DPOA, but she keeps going around and undoing anything I do to protect her, seeing it as me trying to make her more sick than she is. It's probably true that she can do a lot more than I am able to allow her to do because our systems are not really able to be gray, just black or white. She was giving her information away to people on the phone and in mail scams, so I had to take her mail away, and her bank accounts, etc... Now she is saying that I forged the POA and trying to sue me. You may be way better off without the POA. In any case, those are only good if the person was fully cognizant when they signed (as some others have said already). I'm currently struggling with the decision to go through guardianship or not, and leaning heavily away from it. Luckily, mom doesn't own a house, or any real property. I read this book recently that might help you think a bit differently about the nursing home, and the rest of your mom's life. It's called Being Mortal by Atul Gawande. He talks about how we have forgotten that emotions play a big part in our overall health, and so we medicate ourselves all the way up to the end of life. It's a very positive way to see end of life choices. Hope this helps, and hope things improve in some way.
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Tina - thanks for the details. You know with Medicaid being managed by the state uniquely, it's interesting to see just how Medicaid can be so different by state.

Good about your daughter in the the house and paying for things as 1 missed tax bill can cause all sorts of issues.But there's a couple of things to keep in mind. Is she paying actual rent or paying the mortgage in lieu of rent? If it's actual rent then more than likely Medicaid will consider it monthly income for Medicaid & want it reported and included in your mom's monthly copay to the NH. Also it might be a good idea to have something in writing as to what your daughter's duties are for the house - like yard maintenance, monitor for vandalism (if the neighborhood has issues like this), winterize the house, just whatever to establish that her living at the house has a value that otherwise you or others would have to pay for.

Although dementia can happen even in your 50's, 72 is still young for it. Has mom had a geriatric psyc evaluation? My gut feeling is that there is something bigger than dementia going on for her. Dementia seems to be slow creep of loss of cognitive ability but it sounds like for your mom this is all recent & intense. I just wonder if there is more than dementia going on or that she has one of more uncommon dementia's which need a different set of medications that what is prescribed for Alzheimers. You know having her become a "ward of the state" could in the long run be the best way for her to get the level of care she might need. You as a DPOA have to call around and find things and figure out stuff from square one but if she is a ward of the state really she would have someone who basically is a professional guardian and has the ability to cut through red tape as they have state appointed authority. In a way it could be ideal as when you are with mom it can be about spending time together as opposed to trying to cajole her to deal with legal issues. There are different levels of guardianships too - just what really depends on your state laws. Good luck in all this, none of it is simple.
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Thank you country mouse. I have been very emotional about this especially the past couple weeks. When I went to see her a while back she told me I was there to watch her execution. You can imagine my horror. Since then she had at times refused to eat thinking they are poisoning her and whenever I try to leave she crys in genuine fear. There is nothing like leaving your mom when she is so scared. Then this house thing came up and I was just reaching out for some advise but also an ear. My husband is working 300 miles away and works long hours so I try not to burden him. He doesn't know anymore than I do.
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Tina, I don't think anyone means to make you feel bad. Even in straightforward circumstances, everyone would respect that we all have to set limits on how much we can do for our elders, and that it's a mistake to get in over your head. Really, no one here would give you a hard time for staying away from your mother's situation. Besides: she stopped you, didn't she.

The thing is, I get the feeling that you asked a practical question, about what will happen in terms of administering your mother's property and affairs, and you got some practical answers. But I suspect that what you might actually be struggling with is the emotional side of all this? Clearly there's some history going on. Why not have a look at some other threads and see if any chimes with what you're feeling. Best of luck to you; and try not to worry - you can never be held responsible for decisions your mother made.
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Stressed52 that was very cold. You make it sound as if I don't care. You have no idea how many hours I have cried over this situation. I wNted to take care of my mom at my home but she put herself I the NH because she felt like I didn't do enough for her because I worked 35 hours a week. As far as her finances she has nothing except a house she shared with a man who raped my granddaughter and id now In Prison for it. So no I have no interest In The house other than it taking care if her. I am at every turn making sure she gets good care and has everything she needs. I just am not leagally responsible to do so because when she could make the decision she refused to. She is not without relatives. Someone is there to see her at least 5 days a week between me her sister and my daughter.
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Well it sounds like you do not want to have any responsibility in caring for Mom or taking care of her finances etc., so if you make sure your name is on NOTHING stating that you will bear the financial burden if she cannot then, you do not have to worry.

For most of us we wanted to make sure our parents did not make bad decisions and choices therefore we wanted to have DPOA so we could have control of her medical and financial affairs. We are not responsible for paying for her bills out of our pocket but we made sure that she wasn't giving the money away to every telemarketer that called on the phone either.

When your parent is ill you make decisions for them regarding their care and carrying out their wishes right up to death and many times even after death. I am currently dealing with the "after death" aspects of Mom's estate.

If you have not been involved up to now and do not wish to be involved then just let it alone as though your Mom has no relatives. The state and the nursing home will take what the want.
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igloo. Answering some of your questions. My daughter, moms granddaughter has been living in house and pays the house payment, taxes, insurance and all utilities. The house is in good shape for a 100 year old house and before mom got bad and was still living there she had it sided, a new furnace, roof, appliances and an aging agency put in a first floor bathroom and laudry room for her safety so she would not have to go up and down stairs. 5 years ago she was divorced and given the house in the settlement. She only owes about $8k on the house and its worth about $75k. And that was before the improvements. It is my thoughts that all of the money from it should go to pay for her care, so rather by Medicaid or private, I don't care one way or another. I just cannot be responsible for any of it.
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Mom is 71. She was living with me and decided last year that she wanted to go to a facility where she thought she would get stronger and go home. At that time she had the very beginnings of dementia but most of her problems were physical because of extreme copd and osteoporosis. She broke her back 5 times in a 5 month period. She didn't want to be alone anymore, even during day while I was at work. She had home health aids coming in daily, but that was not good enough. So she had them help her find a NH that would take her and apply for Medicaid for her. They took her in while waiting on approval. I signed nothing. She pays them all but $45 of her SS and pension check each month as her copay. She signs the checks each month from her checking account. She has given everyone permission to talk to me, but I have not legal power or responsibility. And honesty, I do not want any. I can't afford to be responsible for her care, or the expense of guardianship. I want to protect her as much as I can, but she is never coming out of the nursing home and I know it. Her dementia has gotten so much worse since she has been there. She is paranoid and has been sent to the hospital psyc ward once. Someone asked what state we are in. It is Ohio. I am an only child and I have no interest in her house. I had been making the payments on it and the property taxes because they had told me they would not take it until she passes away. Now the letter says if they do not receive info that it has been put on the market by 10/24/14 (I received letter 10/25/14 from NH) she will loose her benefits. The letter was originally sent to NH and they sent it to me. Even though I have no POA I have to remind everybody every time something happens because they assume I do.
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As you know, dementia only gets worse. If you are completely uninvolved in her financial affairs at this point, it's unlikely she'll turn them over to you willingly now. If there are no assets to try to protect, why go through the expensive and time-consuming process of guardianship if you can avoid it? Can't you just walk away from her financial affairs (especially since she's not cooperating)? You need to meet with an elder law attorney to make sure you're protecting yourself from any potential penalties or obligations. I met with one for just an hour or so and it was the best $200 I've ever spent. She steered me away from some potentially dangerous decisions that would have had implications for my own finances.
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Ferris - the after death MERP recovery will be there no matter what. But I think Tina needs to be somewhat more concerned about what's happening with the house now & how to keep it from bring a sticky problem for herself.

If tina's mom has been in a NH for a year, then what has happened with taxes, utilities, maintenance etc on the house. Are bills just building up? Could there be a tax sale issue looming?if mom is having dementia now for a while, could she have done something odd with the house that has complicated the title? Jeapordized ownership? Situations like these seem to morph out of control.

If mom just flat refuses to do what is needed for Medicaid to totally approved her, the state will suspend payments. Nh will start hounding family to pay. NH doesnt want the house, they want to get paid but will file a lein on house for nonpayment amount. It all can get really layers of problems fast. If mom flat refuses to work with her daughter & her cognitive state is too far gone then a G/C will need to be done whether by an emergency ward done by state or tina's filing & paying to become moms G/C. Tina really needs to do whatever to not have moms problems become hers & a year of NH could run 100K.
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I doubt if she has dementia she could give a legal POA. Medicaid will take the house for payment for her care after she passes since she is on the deed. Ask Medicaid what their rules are for people with dementia and no POA. Each state has their own rules regarding repayment.
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Tina- your mom is really still young, like 71 or 72, Correct? She could be with us for a long long time. Mom needs to be in a facility, that is her reality.

So what realistically works for you? If you want to direct what happens for her & her assets, & she flat wont give you a DPOA then you are going to have to file for guardianship or conservator ship. This is somewhere between 4k - 10k to do and you really need an attorney. OR mom can become a "ward of the state" & the court will appoint someone who is vetted to be a G/C under your states system. The house will be sold to pay for her care. The G/C want family to be involved so don't feel you will be shut out. That is rare and usually because of some on the record impropriety (like validated elder abuse). You can speak with the Social worker @ the NH on this as to how to start a ward of the state.

It sound like the NH is wanting to work with your mom. If she's been there a year & Medicaid still hasn't cleared the house waiver, then Medicaid is probably going to suspend payment for her. Read the letter theybgotbto see if this is implied. If this happens the NH is not going to be quite as nice. If you did not sign off to be Financially or legally responsible on any of the admissions forms, then they can't come after you. But if you did, they can. I'd very carefully go over all the admissions paperwork ASAP.

A 1 year waiver for property sale is really generous. What state? & what does the waiver cover? Does she still do a monthly co pay to NH or just a partial copay.? I'm really curious how it's been waived. For my mom, I was told by the caseworker that if i was to place moms house on market it would be a 6 month waiver for utilities, insurance taxes for a 6 mo signed listing agreement with a Realtor (no FSBO) with bills and payments documented.
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If your mother is mentally incapacitated she can't give anyone POA anyway - you have to be legally competent to be able to do that.

When she was admitted to the NH, did anyone sign as her guarantor or anything regrettable like that? Who has been handling her finances? Because unless it was you, I agree with Dave - she wouldn't let you get involved, so don't get involved. Be glad it's not your problem!
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Why ...The nursing home received a letter from Medicaid asking if the house has been listed for sale. {EQ}
How did medicaid have the right to ask a NH about this?

If the house is not protected from medicaid, Medicaid eventually get money back from house being sold.

Having a good elder affairs attorney to give you councel is worth the money to you. I have an elder sister who has no family with POA etc,, my lawyer says tell those who ask me for information to contact her attorney or they can go through the courts for answers,

Your mom is in a NH, my suggestion is not to get involved between the NH and Medicaid.
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Is the 13-month waiver period something new? I haven't heard of that.
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Thank you cmagnum. It may come to that. I'm sure eventually it will. Her parinoia is getting worse.
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If your mom is no longer competent, then you could go for guardianship.
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