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I took my mother home last night, the social workers at the ER reached out to APS last week and I got an order from the courts to take her home because she had no medical reason to be in the ER.
I have an emergency hearing on next Tuesday because of the APS call from the hospital. My question is two fold, what exactly happens when the state takes over? My attorney has told me that community guardians are overworked and understaffed so they do cut a lot of corners when it comes to care.
What experience do others have with community guardians. My attorney told me it is a coin flip and it is extremely difficult to switch them.
I am also afraid they are going to try and use that my mother is doing well against me, has anyone gone through that? Where they try and frame your parents well being as a reason to not give up because their quality of life is not going to be the same. How did you navigate that situation.

Unamusedbyall,

I just want to apologise for assuming you were a woman. I've just seen an old post where you state that your mum sometimes mistakes you for her brother.

It's an almost understandable assumption, as the majority of carers seem to be women. However, it's also sexist, as there are plenty of male caregivers.

I hope that you have had a good outcome to your court hearing. If not, I hope you have better luck with getting your mum placed in care.
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Hello: Unamusedbyall:

I checking in to see if you are doing better with your mother's situation. By now, she should have been placed in a memory care facility for her dementia where she belongs to give you rest, peace and for you to get on with your life.

I would like to hear back from you, even if it's just Two Words: "I'm OK". Thanks.

Patahome01.
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April 27th court date has passed, and I now wonder how Unamusedbyall and her mother are doing today. I hope her mother is getting the thoughtful care she requires without burdening her daughter any further. With all my blessed thoughts.

Patahome01
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Please read these from links:

https://dementiamap.com/caregiving-can-kill-you/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.agingcare.com/articles/amp/150336

https://juniperpublishers.com/jojnhc/JOJNHC.MS.ID.555790.php

Cargiving can kill!! The federal government needs to wake up and step in to help!
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I once read a case that a spouse killed his wife with Alzheimer’s and then himself when he had no other options for his wife’s care. Let’s hope no such outcome happens with Unamusedbyall and her mother.

Im just making all you readers think.
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ElizabethAR37 Mar 31, 2025
I thought about it when I first read about the case. What occurred may not have been the bad outcome that it seems on the surface. Both were caught in a no-win situation.
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This is an Emergency Situation for the caregiver who is not eating or resting properly or not at all with her mother’s 24/7 cargiving responsibilities. She is entirely burned out and requires a break. Unless her mother’s placement happens by APS or the State ASAP, the caregiver may end up in the hospital or even die.
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Do not let state take over. Get her caregivers at home or nursing home care
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Good luck today, I hope you’ll let us know how it goes.
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More burnout info. I am sharing at odd hours but really care! Please read:

https://www.agingcare.com/articles/sneaky-side-of-caregiver-burnout-159850.htm

Can you obtain your doctor's evaluation about yourself and take it and your mother to your court appt.? APS Must take over temporary care of your mother while you'e getting yourself help.

Please update your situation after your court date. Wishing you the best.

Patathome01
😍
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Unamused - I wish you all the best on Thursday with the hearing.
I hope everything gets better for you soon.
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If you move away from your mother's crisis and you have no shelter, go to your county for assistance. I would like to reference Covenant House, but they help only ages 18-24. Contact a county social worker, the best I can do.
I wish you all the best for the better! Where there's life, there's hope.
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ElizabethAR37 Mar 31, 2025
Perish forbid that this is considered "life" for anyone concerned.
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Unamusedbyall:

Please take your mother and yourself to the nearest police station and show them that you have a problem with arranging guardianship care for your mother since you are burned out, unable to continue caring for your mother and have APS release you from your responsibilities NOW.

Hope you called the crisis line at 988.
https://omh.ny.gov/omhweb/crisis/988.html
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Since you are her nearest "kin" and mentally competent, the courts most likely would rule in your favor of having guardianship over your mother. When you have guardianship, you do not have to physically provide the care, but are responsible for making decisions about her financial and medical affairs. Those responsibilities can be a lot to handle. If you feel that this would be overwhelming, you can allow the courts to appoint a guardian ad litem. This person will make sure your mother is appropriately placed into a facility and that all her assets are liquidated to pay for her care. If she has a court appointed guardian, you will not have any say in her care.
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MiaMoor Mar 25, 2025
OP has guardianship and wants to relinquish it. She's burnt out.
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Unamused, I wish you luck in this process. I can’t add anything in advice but I would like to let you know that I think you are amazing.
I am in my 60s, the family has money, and my brother handles my mother’s finances. I was able to find an excellent MC for my mother so I am not responsible for every aspect of her care. I can not imagine taking on the care of a loved one with dementia at the age of 23 with no one to help and no funds! I wish you had the opportunity to focus on yourself as you entered adulthood.
I can not comprehend what you are going through but I really admire how well you have been handling everything. I can only hope that the judgements go in your favor and you can have your life back while finding the best solution for your mother. Please remember to take care of yourself during all this as well!
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In my situation, I refused the discharge and pushed the hospital to evaluate her. My mom was kept in Evaluation until they had an Elder Care Attorney take my case. I was appointed Guardianship by a judge and my mom eas declared incapacitated. In the meantime, my mom started showing all her ailments such as blood clots, peripheral artery disease and dementia. The hospital sent my mom to rehab. I placed her in a personal care home while selling her house to pay for her care. It was very stressful, but that's what I did with my mom's Medicare.
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First Court Appointed Guardians themselves do not "cut corners when it comes to care" THEY do not care for the person.
The person is placed in a facility that can manage their care. And they may have to place her in the first facility that has an opening.
If the person has financial resources those resources will be used to pay the facility for the care.
As to the facility itself...Yes many are understaffed.
What is difficult is if your LO has few assets and they are relying on Medicaid. There are fewer "Medicaid beds" and trying to transfer from one facility to another can be difficult as there are waiting lists for "Medicaid beds"

If you can not care for your mom they can not make you personally, physically take care of her. What you would do as her Guardian is place her where she will get the care that she needs.
But as her Guardian you will have to keep meticulous financial records, medical documentation and you will have to provide a document at least 1 time a year as to her status.
Being a Guardian can be time consuming and it can be expensive if you can not do this then she will have a Court Appointed Guardian. You will have little to say as to where she is placed. I would like to think that the Judge and the Guardian appointed would take where you live into account.
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I had been my late mother’s caregiver in faith for over two years when she suffered several fall injuries, went to the ER, at her age 92 and 83 then I got exhausted. In mid April 2013 while leaving her to dress herself on Easter, she landed in the hospital with another fall and a fractured pelvis and could not return home. Thereafter, my family got her placed into rehab, then AL, with my POA. Yes, I loved her in extreme pain but Thank God remote family got us help.

Thank God for POA, with my two family backups when I could no longer help Mom until she passed away at 95. I truly believed our faith helped us survive!
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Unamusedbyall: Prayers forthcoming.
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Please call the crisis hotline now since you are in trouble caring for your mother you’re unable to do anymore!

Put your oxygen mask on now!
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Patathome01 Mar 31, 2025
Unamusedbyall:

I forgot to mention one more thing: Should be an elder care attorney. If your’s and mom’s is not, get one now to accompany you both to court in April. Documents you have now can be transferred to the elder attorney.

Hope it works out with Our Forum support. Please keep us updated after your court date.
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You can request via an attorney for the court to give you emergency guardianship. These fees are to be paid by your mother's estate. As her guardian, you can and should apply her for Medicad or Medicare. You should request her to be assessed by a neurologist to have her deemed incompetent, meaning you are in charge of all medical and financial decisions on her behalf. The attorney will do and petition for everything on her behalf ti receive proper care. With guardianship, you can place her into a nursing home, memory care, group home, etc. as she requires 24/7 care and one-to-one feeding. The home will provide her care. You will be responsible to make payments on her behalf from her funds, Social Security payments (as guardian, you become her Representative Payee), sell her home, sell her car, manage her bank account(s), check in with the home she is placed in for updates, care conferences, and etc.
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EllaVaughan Mar 23, 2025
Read the thread.
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ALVA, I wonder what the amount of time she would have to be in jail or would she be put under house arrest which seems like she is already on? I would put mom's food in front of her and film her just not eating but is being supplied with food. I wonder what the longest amount of time lasped when she didn't eat. I wonder if she might eat cake, ice cream, etc on her own? What did Dr. say when told she won't eat? I would not say "she eats if I feed her", just say she's not eating and I give her an assortment of food. Just throwing out ideas. Does she drink by herself? Maybe put TV on table in front of her and her food. This is a nightmare and is only going to get worse I fear. As far as wandering, use a gate door in a part of the house she can't escape from and put dolls, stuffed animals, etc in it with radio or tvs in there with her. I once worked in a secure unit and one lady 'washed' a large blanket in the toilet every night. (water was turned off.) Another gave dolls a bath in a bowl. I hope others can come up with ideas that can be tried and just MAYBE one of them will work. I wonder if Day Care has offered suggestions?
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Sounds like to me it is time to re-petition the court with a new care plan.

When we petitioned to get guardianship of MIL, we had to provide a care plan on how her needs were to be met. We were told if there were any changes or problems arose, we were to return to the court for further instructions. THAT was our only option as guardians and was an expense we were told upfront would be ours to pay.

IMHO, your only option is to return to the court for further instructions.
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Unamusedbyall Mar 20, 2025
Yeah, fingers crossed after the hearing on the 27th they accept I cannot do this anymore and at the very least give me a co guardian that will navigate the placement process and Medicaid for me.
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After reading all this, I have some questions:

What if OP has a serious auto accident and ends up in ICU, or permanently disabled/paralyzed? What happens to Mom then?
Or, what if OP has a serious accident and dies? What happens to Mom then?

What I gather is that Mom must have one-to-one care mainly to EAT. She can bathe, toilet, dress herself. She can't communicate well, because she speaks her own (homemade) language. OP says without one-on-one, the problem is Mom "wanders off/gets into trouble." Isn't that the hallmark of MC, to keep patients from wandering/escaping at all times? The primary reason for placement in MC?

I would also think if Mom needs total help to eat, she would be fed similar to other dementia patients that require help eating (such as to prevent choking)? Thus, in between meals, she can wander the locked floor she is on, that prevents her escape, right?

How does Mom now attend adult programs during the day, which usually serve snacks or lunches? Must OP attend with her the entire time? Can Mom drink water or juice without OP holding a cup for her? Must it be the OP only, and Mom refuses an aide? If Mom eats 3 (assisted) meals a day (say 3 hrs), what about the other 13 hrs a day (21 hrs. less 8 hrs. sleeping)? Does Mom require a sitter those hrs, mainly to prevent wandering? The MC already prevents that with lockdown conditions. Thus Mom does not REQUIRE one-on-one 24/7?

These are all reasonable arguments that could possibly get Medicaid to drop the one-on-one requirement that is preventing Mom's placement.
Just throwing this out there to possibly help OP's case.
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mstrbill Mar 20, 2025
You’re exactly right, Dawn. If OP were to become suddenly incapacitated, APS would step in and take over.
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Unamusedbyall, first, I am very, very sorry you are in this position. It stinks and it's so hard. I've read through most of the thread, and I'm gathering that you are able to provide safe supervision for your mother, but it's just getting very difficult for you. I'm wondering if you've reached out to the social workers and demonstrated why and how it is becoming an unsafe situation for your mom and you. I get that you have guardianship, but if guardians have reached their limit, and tried every resource available, and still cannot secure enough resources to ensure the safety of their charge, there has to be an answer, no? Years ago, I had to have the ER help me place my father. They knew it would be unsafe to him to send him home, and they knew I didn't have the resources to care for him alone. I wasn't his guardian, but even if I was, I wouldn't have taken him as there was no other option. If I were you, I would call their bluff and fight every step of the way if you truly felt you have had enough. What they would do if they really wanted to follow through on their threats is refer a case to the local state's attorney's office. It would then be up to the attorney's office to decide if any charges should be filed. If that ever were to happen (and my guess is it would not), you keep pleading "NOT GUILTY" and take it as far as you have to and state your case in front of a judge. By the way, I don't remember the last time I saw anything like this in the news.
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Was the patient, your mother, ever admitted to a behavioral facility for an evaluation and observation for meds that could help her in a few ways?

In her case, it seems a psychiatric admit would at least get her some observation, calming meds and/or a diagnosis to admit her into Memory Care. Since a doctor needs to order the placement, at least you would have someone with the authority to admit or recommend an admit for Mom.

If a public guardian is assigned, there is no reason you cannot help your Mom, as you are able, after that.
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Unamusedbyall Mar 19, 2025
Yes she has been evaluated in a psychiatric ward. Way they explained it to me was what she is feeling are legitimate feelings not a sense of distress or inherently a sign of depression or anxiety.

Even if the behaviors are a sign of depression or anxiety current treatment goals and methods exhaust non pharmaceutical options first. This is where the problem comes into play. She does very well with assistance and that one to one. She goes from a 2 to a 6 or 7 in terms of ability to engage and function.

While I don't appreciate the tone of burnt yes medications are not used to make someone easier to place if they need a one to one to function that is what they need to function and a facility should accommodate that but reality unfortunately does not align with the ideal.

The guardianship makes this complicated because I am legally obligated to provide her with proper care and if I cannot it is my duty to do so. So if I cannot get her placed using her MLTC I have to wait until she progresses to a point where she can. Yes, in theory if I let something happen to prove she is unsafe it is a catch 22 cause it is my job to make sure she is safe.

Currently exploring what they call NHTD wavier which allegedly provides 24 hour care for people that need that level of care but require more social intervention rather than medical.
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Well, after reading all of this--and thanks for being so engaged in participating and in answering--I honestly haven't a clue.

I am really relieved that you have legal help. I think it is badly needed.
People as bad as or much worse than your mother are every single day placed into care.
Why that isn't happening here I can only wonder.

I do wish you the best, unamused.
Hope you will update us after the court date.
Like I said, invite them to imprison, house and feed you. At least then they will have to appoint someone else to Mom's guardianship.
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Unamusedbyall Mar 19, 2025
Unfortunately, I have been told the guardianship is what makes it hard. Maybe you are right I should not be afraid of punishment. I know what they can do but maybe it is more of a question is will they do it. Would be a PR nightmare punishing someone because they can no longer do it.
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I am sorry to be a bother I will refrain from posting further not exactly sure what I said to offend some of you but I apologize nonetheless. Have a pleasant evening. Not sure to delete a post but I will report my posts for removal.
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Slartibartfast Mar 19, 2025
Nobody is offended and everyone is trying to get a grasp on what is happening so they can offer as useful advice as possible. It’s hard not to take things personally when you’re in crisis mode though.
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You have legal guardianship over your mother. Why is there any issue with you placing her in memory care where she clearly belongs? Being a person's guardian, conservator, or POA does not mean that you have to literally yourself provide physical care and a home for the person you have it for. You do not. However, you are responsible for finding adequate care for the person, a safe place for them to live, and to administer their money to pay their bills and act in their best financial interests.

If you're unable to be a competent guardian and find your mother a memory care facility, the state will. APS is trying to scare you because they don't want to use any resources for a case like your mother's. APS because of the current "government efficiency" nonsense going on in Washington is basically working on a budget of next to nothing. So, a senior like your mother who appears clean, well-nurished, and thriving is not going to be a priority to them even if you refuse to continue caring for her. You're going to have to get her placed youself, or if the court removes you as guardian like you've requested, they will find a place.

Find her a memory care facility and place her. You may as her adult child and next-of-kin have to keep her for a few weeks until there's an available bed in a memory care facility somewhere in your state. Or until your name is removed as guardian. So instead of paying big bucks to your lawyer who is doing nothing for you, spend that money you're shelling out on some temporary homecare until you get your mother into memory care.

Also, medicating a person to make them less co-dependent is abuse. This is not a valid medical/psychiatric condition which is why no doctor is helping you out. In fact, you should be ashamed of yourself that you'd even ask that. Elders with dementia are medicated for real conditions like anxiety, agitation, depression, aggression, dementia- related psychosis, and hyper-sexuality. Not because they're needy and their adult children think they're too dependent.

Find a care facility for your mother and place her. As I said, you may actually have to be her guardian for a little while until a bed becomes available somewhere.
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AlvaDeer Mar 19, 2025
Burnt I have heard lots of folks who cannot get out of Guardianship when they say they cannot function and when they say they are mentally or physically ill. The Judge will not relieve them. The courts don't want it. And they don't care if they are able to function. It is EASY to get out of POA> It is almost impossible to give up guardianship.

Our OP has tried to place mom. Everyone doesn't want her. They say she would require one on one care and they will not medicate her against her will, and I guess this is falling into MENTAL incapacity and not physical as in dementia because she is exercising the rights that those with mental incapacity can use.
I think perhaps this OP is caught in a bit of an existential nightmare. Not sure.
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If mom has been declared incompetent and in need of a guardian what is the barrier to you, as her guardian, placing her. I am neither being sarcastic nor judgemental, I want to understand.
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AlvaDeer Mar 19, 2025
She already IS the guardian.
That's part of the problem. They now have her in that position and won't let her go.
She will need court permission for everything and is accountable to the court and won't get out of guardianship and is unable to get mom off her hands even IF/WHEN she is ill.
That's guardianship for you and what I have learned I would never be one.
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