Is it wrong to take my mother out to eat in public when she often vomits extensively at the table as a result of several mini-strokes?

MomIssues, I want to give you some hope here now that we've sent you off to think about boundaries. I rescued my mthr from near death when her colon cancer was bleeding. She had transfusions to build her up before her colonoscopy and surgery. The first thing we did, even before the colonoscopy, was to get her upper gi looked at. She was having the same problem with not bring able to swallow all the way. While she was under for the scope, about 15 mins, the doc inserted a esophageal stent - a spring to hold open the end of her esophagus where food was getting stuck before she upchucked it. She'd always had reflux and stomach acid had scarred the end of her esophagus, leaving a hole the size of a Bic pen tube! Mthr woke up, did not remember the before, and started eating like a horse. It's been almost 8 years and she's never had trouble again.

When we went to a buffet, sometimes my grandmother would say "Look at that fat woman! Look how much is on her plate" quite loudly. I felt like crawling out, but said to her instead "Grandma, that's rude, don't talk like that!" I was the only person in the family that would dare speak to her that way, but even though she had Alzheimers, she always stopped.

This is the opposite end of things (hahaha 😂) but my husband’s grandma would always speak in a VERY LOUD voice proclaiming her issues with being constipated! Oh my word, the other diners would literally put their forks down listening to her speak. I swear the woman had no filter at all. I stopped asking her how she felt when we ate out.

She would refer to it as, “tightness of the stool!” I am cracking up laughing right now, just remembering it but when it happened I wanted to crawl under the table! She did this in fine dining restaurants in uptown New Orleans. She was nuts! Oh gosh, the stuff that came out of her mouth was insane.

Her comments about other people too. I was afraid of being killed as the innocent bystander that happened to be with her. She was totally out of the box crazy!

My godmother was the same. She would ask someone as they came out of the bathroom, “Did everything come out okay?” LOL 😂

Has her personality always been so combative and willful? Or has there been a increase in this behavior post-stroke? It sounds to me like she might have vascular dementia and need a geriatric psychiatrist to prescribe/balance some anti-depressive and anti-anxiety medications to even out her moods.

The vomiting after eating also concerns me. You state you have encouraged her to cut her food in smaller pieces and that she doesn't always vomit. I have a hiatal hernia and one of the first symptoms was gagging and coughing up food I had just swallowed. The first time was eating fast food while driving down the road and I thought my food had just gone down the wrong pipe (an occasional reoccurring problem with asthma when the airway is reduced sometimes there's an involuntary quick intake of air that can pull food into the airway). Second time I was aware I had swallowed and then felt the food get "stuck" before it reappeared. Tests confirmed the diaphragm tear and hiatal hernia from a recent round of acute bronchitis and a prolonged asthma attack; I had felt something tear during one attack but the doctor blew me off until symptoms surfaced. I learned to avoid the regurgitation by drinking more fluids with my meals, cutting food into smaller pieces and concentrating on chewing meats well before swallowing. I am especially careful when eating with a group because I tend to focus on conversation and forget my chew well and drink often measures. At this point, regurgitation only happens once every 18-24 months. Although I can feel it coming for several seconds and can leave the table, I can seldom get completely out of a room quickly enough. When dining out I try to pick a table near an exterior or bathroom door and carry a small plastic cup and a small towel positioned in my purse for quick access. Putting the cup to my mouth and the towel over my nose and mouth prevents any of the regurgitated food products from being observed or contaminating nearby surfaces. Throw the cup in the nearest trash bin and most people in my party will only think I choked.

Is your mother vomiting a small amount of food? Without stomach fluids/acids? Accompanied by choking behavior? A hiatal hernia can be repaired if your mother is a good surgical candidate. If your mother does have dementia, she is likely to be increasing unable to manage any chew well and drink more type of coping mechanisms. Maybe she will be more cooperative about seeing a doctor if she believes there is a chance of a cure.

wow-this pushed a button with me.

Mother LOVES to 'eat out' and I found that I was the only person in the family who was taking her out---last time I took her 'out' I realized why!

She smells--just 'old person doesn't wash well enough' and urinary incontinence that becomes VERY apparent when she gets warm or in close quarters.

I picked her up for lunch (10:30, of course that's when 90 yo's eat lunch) and in my car with the heat on..the smell got to me. I opened my side window so could breathe. At the restaurant, they seated us in a booth near several other groups of diners. Within a few minutes, one group of diners were sniffing and wrinkling their noses (I was so embarrassed b/c I KNEW they could smell mom)...they quietly called the waitress and she moved this group of 6 to a table far from us. Mom didn't notice, but I did as it involved a LOT of work on the waitress' part. Luckily, not a lot of people are eating lunch at 10:30-11). Mom is so hunched over, her chin is LITERALLY sitting on the table. So she kind of shovels her food in. It's gross to watch, but she cannot sit up straight. She dribbles and spills and half her meal is on her shirt front. But, oh, how she loves to eat!!

My appetite is zero, so I get something that can be boxed up 'to go' and I just drink Diet Cokes and pick at a roll or muffin. And of course she wants to stay as long as possible--meaning the waitress cannot use the tables near us...having been forewarned of the smell. I realize this messes with the restaurant's plans of where they sit people so they can be waited on efficiently.

It last about 1-1/2 hours and it's not fun or pleasant for me. But then, it's not about me.

I talked to OS about this and she went with me the next time I took mom out and she really 'got it'. This time I asked to be seated far from any other diners and it was OK. Still smelled bad, but what can I do about that? I just needed someone in the family to 'get it'!

I just cannot bring this up with mother. She's doing the best she can---and she's NOT belligerent, so what I have chosen instead is to pick up a favorite fast food meal occasionally and take it to her. She goes out with a friend once a week and that has to suffice.

If she were vomiting--that would be a great concern. You said your mom had a stroke? One thing they work on is the 'new' method of cutting food into small pieces and the 'new' swallowing technique. Maybe mom needs a wake up call by you simply refusing to take her out and being a little (a lot?) tougher with her temper tantrums.

BTW-I slipped the sweet waitress a $20 bill for not making a scene...she refused it but I insisted. We made a lot more work for her.

There is a limit as to what you can do with parents. Simply put, her requests are beyond that limit. I am not a doctor so I can’t say what all of her medical issues are. I’m not a psychiatrist so I can’t assess her mental state but clearly her issues are larger than you can handle.

She needs help. Please don’t take on the responsibility of allowing her to live with you. If you think this is hard now, think again because if she lived with you it would become a total nightmare. Even if everything starts out okay, sooner or later true colors come through and the mayhem begins.

Speak to your mom’s doctor. Tell the doctor you are unwilling to care for her in your home. Ask what options are available for her to be professionally cared for.

There comes a time when you just don't take them out...for their dignity! Also as many others have stated...it's gross. Don't put her through it...even though that's what she wants to do...and don't put yourself through it. My mom has dementia and conversations are not making since anymore. She always loved to go to church and see her friends. I know she would not want others to see her in the state she is now. So I just don't take her with me anymore. We bring her very nice meals or cook for her at her home or will on occasion bring her to dinner at our house. It's not that I care what others will think about her...It's because I know she would not want to make a spectacle of herself.

After reading the post, the comments, and further explanations from the OP, I think there is a much bigger issue here than 'eating out', frankly. OP, it's time to tell your mother to Sit Down And Shut Up, that Enough is More Than Enough Already. I don't care how much of a 'softy' you are, your mother is 100% out of control and has absolutely no right to treat you this way. You, however, have told her it's perfectly fine TO treat you this way, so it's not going to stop. She has you SO enmeshed into her toxic web that you can't see past it.

~Absolutely NO more eating out in restaurants
~Get some therapy for yourself right away to help you figure out a blueprint on how to go about backing OUT of this nightmare of care giving you're involved in.
~Get mother placed into a Skilled Nursing Facility where others are paid to deal with this level of Toxicity.

For some reason, many children of mothers like this think it's our 'duty' to put up with WHATEVER level of insanity that's thrown at us. It's not okay. It's not normal. It's not something that we have to 'pull on our big girl panties and suck up.'

What it IS is something we have to figure out how to DETACH from and REMOVE ourselves from. And how to let others handle instead. Because OUR lives are on the line here. These women are old and infirm. They've lived their lives. We, on the other hand, have husbands and jobs and children, etc., that require our attention. If we devote 100% of our attention to the Energy Vampires, that leaves 0% left over for OUR lives.

See where I'm going with this?

Please please please sign up with a therapist immediately to help you figure this whole mess out. We can only advise you..........sending you many hugs and prayers for strength.

Hello again-
please please please take a step back for a moment to reassess your situation and caring for your highly toxic mother. I mean no disrespect, but she is totally out of line and has been allowed to push beyond acceptable tolerance. I’m 50 and I’ve had three, yes three tia’s aka mini strokes and I do not use that as an excuse to torment someone nor has it ever crossed my mind- I have had no permanent problems thankfully .( not outside my usual off the hook self). A nurse told me the only difference between a mini stroke and a stroke is that you recover from a mini stroke. I feel that your mother isn’t dealing with her aging process very well, feels like she’s losing control over her physical abilities which can happen when we age and due to her already toxic type personality which will only continue to increase worsening her outbursts with time she figures she’s losing control and she ain’t doing it alone- misery loves company my dear. MY mother has taught me that.She might be scared of aging etc which is understandable but her behavior is not normal nor is blaming it all on mini strokes. I think it is possible the tia’s could have enhanced the underlying toxic person that was already in place but not cause her to change into how she is acting. You must , for your sake STOP accepting and allowing and blaming the mini strokes to that enable her to behave and treat you like this. If you don’t you will one day wake up to find yourself and life destroyed. And believe me, she has recovered much much better from those tia’s than you ever will from that kind of destruction. Good luck to you.
xoxoxsusan

You said that if you had to place her in a facility it would be a death sentence for her?
to that I say that if you didn’t, it would be a death sentence for you.
xoxoxo
susan

"Okay, all... She is screaming for assistance, and I must go. I will return later. Many, many thanks, again, to you all!! I send much love and strength right back to you all!!" -momissues

"Can I suggest that you walk away when she screams at you."
-Isthisreallyreal

Honestly, I think the whole restaurant vomiting thing may be the least of your worries. You really need to work on the boundaries, and others on this forum have much better advice than I could give. Listen to what others have to say, and you CAN get your life back and still have a relationship with your mom.

I worked for a Visiting Nurse Assoc. as a secretary. On of our Nurses couldn't stand vomit. And thats a professional.

I think your Moms mind has been effected by these strokes. No one in their right mind would want to embarrass themselves or others this way. For me, once you may get away with, twice no way. Like u I don't like being the center of attention. I would not be sympathetic, I would be mad because Mom is well aware it might happen.

Early in our marriage my MIL had Thanksgiving dinner at her home. An Aunt had been invited. She wasn't a heavy woman but sat there and gorged herself. While some of us were still eating, she got up and went to the bathroom, which was fairly close, and vomited. She then came out and said "time for dessert". I told my DH, I will never go to another dinner that she is there. The next TG my MIL didn't invite her.

I agree, boundary time. Tell her she embarrasses you and its not fair to the other patrons. Plus its considered a health hazard. Tell her you would consider it if she goes to the doctor to find out what is causing it.

I also agree, if she starts abusing you, walk out.

Okay, all... She is screaming for assistance, and I must go. I will return later. Many, many thanks, again, to you all!! I send much love and strength right back to you all!!

When you write that you manage your mother's home care, does that mean that she doesn't live with you? You've mentioned just this one issue, but I have a feeling that it could just be the tip of the iceberg with her...

I join the set of responders who are more concerned about the vomiting after eating issue than about the can she dine out at a restaurant issue.

Though on the minor issue, here is your clear boundary: your mother can dine at a restaurant whenever she pleases (you are in no way restricting her autonomy), but you ain't taking her (her autonomy does not extend to your choices). She'll have to see who else she can get to clear up her puke amidst a chorus of disapproval.

When I worked in a restaurant I always tried to be mindful of the patrons who for whatever reason couldn't eat out very often and regarded their dining out as a special treat - to quote Star Trek's Mr Spock - the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, (or the one).

Oh more information is so helpful. Thank you for sharing.

Can I suggest that you walk away when she screams at you. NO EXCUSE FOR ABUSE, EVER!! And that is exactly what she is doing, she is verbally abusing you to manipulate you into giving her what she wants.

Having a difficult, selfish, self-centered, abusive parent is one of the hardest trials in life.

I don't think I would even offer a lovely dinner at home until she can behave like a grown up. Throwing tantrums has been effective for her, so it will definitely escalate when you set boundaries and say no, be prepared and you will overcome the challenges.

Here's a great big warm hug for strength to take your life back.

I am so very, very grateful for all of your responses! It's my first time here, and I can't tell you all how comforting it was for me to receive affirmations of what I already know to be true! My Mom is so dominating, I am so beaten down by her tantrums, and I am so saddened by her unhappiness, that at times I feel I have lost my own moral compass. So many thanks to you objective sweethearts for setting me straight! She has a very elegant dining room, and I have repeatedly suggested bringing wonderful food in for a delightful dinner with candles, her fine china and silverware, linen napkins, classical music, etc. She shrieks at me at the top of her lungs in protest. I have repeatedly advised her that we need to see a specialist who can aide in her swallowing difficulties. She shrieks at me at the top of her lungs in protest, grabs onto her bed, and refuses to go (she has always despised doctors). I have repeatedly advised her that she needs to cut her food into smaller pieces, chew carefully before swallowing, and choose advised foods from the post-stroke patient list. She shrieks at me at he top of her lungs in protest, orders what she wants, and physically pushes me away when I attempt to cut her food for her while at the restaurant. Honestly, I believe she actually enjoys my embarrassment. She always had a difficult, at times abusive, personality. The mini-strokes have amplified her difficult personality traits, and she adamantly refuses to see a psychiatrist. I realize that for my own sanity, I must firmly set boundaries, and at times physically detach from her. This will be difficult because I am an empathetic softy and she knows it. However, I must put on my "big girl panties" and do this... If not only for my sake, but for the sake of my husband, who is sorely missing his wife's attention. My father left her years ago (pre mini-strokes), my brother despises her and rarely sees her (I can't say I blame him), and we have been through countless aides. If a med existed that enabled me to "grow a pair" I would scarf those pills down! Okay, I've blabbed long enough. Thank you, thank you, thank you all, from the bottom of my heart!! Warmly, Too Sensitive For Her Own Good

This is so UNFAIR to you and other patrons!
This IS "the hill you want to die on."
Absolutely do not take her out to eat.
Let her scream all she wants to about this.
I'm so sorry she has this problem, but OMG it is pretty awful.

Seems a speech therapist could help with this issue.

OK I'll make it unanimous, but I'm going to also change the tone of this - Why is she vomiting?

Given her medical history I'm concerned that this is dysphagia, a difficulty with the mechanics of swallowing that is causing her to choke, gag and vomit. She needs a swallow study to figure this out because it is only a matter of time until you will be doing the Heimlich manoeuvre instead of dealing with vomiting, and beyond that she may be aspirating food or vomit into her lungs.

Wrong indeed! Just not fair to the other people who are trying to eat their food.

She can have a best quality of life without going to a restaurant and ruining everyone else time.

Yes it is wrong.

It's not fair to the other restaurant patrons, not fair to the restaurant workers and owners (patrons might not come back), and not fair to YOU. So your mother doesn't count in this scenario -- she's outnumbered! Plain and simple.

I feel the same way when people here mention they bring their elders to restaurants, knowing they will have a diarrhea or poop mess. What about the smell, much less possible leakage?

Your Mom may “strongly feel” anything she wants, but she’s wrong. Yes she has rights, but not when they infringe on other people. I physically cannot stomach listening or watching someone get sick, so there would be 2 people to clean up. If she cannot warn you when this is about to happen and try to get to a bathroom, her not being bothered by “extensive” vomiting in a restaurant is an indication that her reasoning ability has declined. Yours hasn’t, so please don’t let her make the decision on this. You’ve gotten excellent advise on alternatives so she can still get out and have a nice meal. Unfortunate you’re still left with clean up. I’m so sorry about that. I don’t think I could do it.

This is terrible for you to deal with. Of course I feel for your mom but it is absolutely not fair to the patrons dining in the restaurant.

You can pick up food. She can eat at home. You can take her out to other places that doesn’t require eating as an outing, such as a visit to a park, museum, movie, the mall, etc.

This is not at all fair to people out for a dining experience. While most of us might be used to these things, this could honestly ruin meal for more than a few people. I would not go out to eat any more. Bring in food, have food delivered in, but this isn't right. I am so sorry, and feel badly for your Mom who loves going out to eat. Hope you can find a nice way around this.

Well I feel a lot of empathy for your mother because this is really a difficult situation and its not her fault. But I think Surprise gave the best answer here, which is that this is a boundary for you. It’s ok to set boundaries and not put your mother, yourself, other patrons and the restaurant staff in an unpleasant situation. I do hope that you will compromise with her though and figure out an alternative. I know that being waited on and not having to clean up after yourself is part of the fun of going out but....a lot of restaurants have “carside to go” and you can order meals online or through an app and they will bring it out to your car. Maybe you could do that for lunch and then take her to a nice park or garden to eat.

I’m sorry you’re in such a dilemma, pleasing Mom or suffering through the cleanup & how it affects others. Follow your instincts though. Maybe, set up your dining area at home “special” for Mom, have dinner delivered. On pretty days, order & pickup food, maybe go to the park or lake. Invite family or friends over. God bless

I would tell your mom that you are not going to go out to eat with her. That's your boundary. If she can convince someone else to go out to eat with her (and clean up after her), more power to her! I would make sure that all the likely suspects she will ask to take her out are aware of her problem.

You can't change anyone else's behavior, but you can change your own. You don't want to see anyone throwing up at a restaurant. I don't either. Don't be a party to it.

Is it possible to request a table that would give everyone privacy?

I, for one, agree with you. I have a weak stomach and someone puking ruins my appetite. Unfortunately life gives us issues that shouldn't be shared with all. I also understand that your mom wants to do what she wants. Such a catch 22. Maybe takeout?

I would definitely scope out restaurants that have private rooms or private tables so that she can enjoy eating out and others don't have to have their meals ruined.

Make her wear a bib to make clean up easier. This isn't a choice if she can't do it herself. It becomes a biohazard, body fluids can spread disease and it is unfair and selfish for her to expect you to deal with this without something protecting her and her clothes.

I would also keep a journal and figure out if she is having a reaction to certain foods.