How do you care for a parent that values fighting and winning at all costs?

Maybe there's dementia at play with your mother? Or just the usual narcissistic passive/aggressive behavioral issues I see with my own mother, especially problematic as an only child myself. Mine has always been argumentative, just for chits & giggles, I think, but now with dementia present, if I say black, she says white. If I go ahead & agree it's white, she'll start arguing it's gray and has been all along. It's a no-win situation so most topics are off the table nowadays.

Women like this don't compromise. Everything is a game and they have to win to feel in control. They hate authority of any kind. My mother is 94 and lives in Memory Care Assisted Living and STILL fights authority tooth and nail. When the CG comes in to help her get dressed, she's 'not ready yet' and they have to leave. Then she falls off the bed insisting she can put her shoes on herself. 70x she's fallen, honest to God, b/c she has to do things 'her way.'

To others she is sweet as sugar. To me, her sharp teeth come out and she's vicious. She's always worn a mask her whole life, but now with dementia, it's getting harder for her to keep up with that 'nice face' for others. She can still do it, it's just crumbling a bit. Her slip is showing more and more, is what my DH likes to say.

Here is a good article on the subject which I found quite helpful:

https://lifelessons.co/personal-development/covertpassiveaggressivenarcissist/#3

For me, I'd never be able to move in with my mother, and I've known that all along. You say that you moved in with yours 'temporarily', so maybe now is the time to move out and get back to your own life, especially if your mom is giving you such a hard time. You're not wrong to be tired of the chaos; this is what they THRIVE on though, and what exhausts US to the point of getting depressed. Don't let that happen. She can call in paid caregivers if need be, and you can limit your contact with her to something YOU can live with. Nothing we do ever seems to be 'good enough' ANYWAY, so keep that in mind as you decide what boundaries you want to set down.

Wishing you the best of luck coming up with a livable plan for YOU.

How old is your mom? Old enough to maybe have the beginnings of dementia or ALZ? If not, then yes you are wrong. Just because you're an only child (like me) the same rules apply: choose and enforce boundaries or continue to suffer in this dysfunctional relationship. It's not an all or nothing proposition. If she asks for your help, you can give it as long as it's something she truly cannot do for herself. If you are making her medical appointments, this would be called enabling. Are her fingers broken? Did she lose her voice, hearing & vision? Is she illiterate? Low-I Q? If not then she is perfectly able to make her own appointments, keep track of them and get herself there. If she misses her appointments or doesn't make them in the first place, she will suffer the consequences of her own choices and actions and won't be able to blame you. When you interject yourself into her business you've handed her a weapon for her to beat you with. For the things she truly does need help with, the second she starts to fight or move the goal posts, you just calmly walk away and don't take bait to go back until she gives an unsolicited apology. FYI if she is apologizing for the same infractions, then she really isn't sorry in the first place.

You must consider that you have a co-dependent relationship with her. Maybe some time with a therapist would help clarify what's going on and how to protect yourself. FYI there's also a thing called "planned incompetence" which is when a person acts like they can't do something or are just awful at it and then the object of their manipulation rushes in to do it for them. It's a passive-aggressive form of control. Kids instinctively do this with their parents.

Please keep in mind that your mother is a fully grown adult and has had the entirety of her life to learn and become responsible for herself. If she chose not to do that, that is NOT your problem. You are not responsible for her happiness, ever. Stop orbiting around her and see how she will change her tune and your life will vastly improve. She will still do what she does -- she just won't be able to do it to you. Especially when you move out. Soon. Hurry. Wishing you all the best!

"..discard, love bomb, discard..". Wow. You have powers of insight to be envious of!

Getting out of the game does sound like safer strategy... way less emotionally exhausting. But only child.. Hmm.

What about: not IN the game, not OUT of the game completely, but at the sidelines. Make suggestions for doctor appointments, catching taxis, home health aides - whatever is needed. Then back away. Let her decide & she wears the consequences?

This is where I am trying to be. OK so far. Eg Dr says she needs xyztest/scan. OK. (Not yes you should). But I don't want to. Ok again. That way I can't take any blame for forcing her to go or if some dire thing happens for supporting her not to.

Is that where you are heading too?

Why are you doing this? Mom won't love you, or let you help. Move out.

The approach of "It's hard when it's your parent"... did she ever make any sacrifices or devote her life to you? No. She had her whole life to get help, learn to be a good mother, and to prepare for old age. She did none of these things, because she expected you to step in for her. You've sacrificed most of your life to her craziness. Why are you letting her take even more from you?

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My mother is the same but her staunch independant spirit cost her her independance. Shes now in hospital after several near fatal falls waiting to be trasfered to a nursing home. She insisted on allowing her young friend to take care of her when she was living in her flat then became obcessed with the girl who was not taking care of her she was just taking care of my mothers money, shes ripped her off for around £60,000 so far. I washed my hands of it 18 months ago when i got Social Services involved then my mother called me a liar infront of that criminal. Sometimes you have to step back and allow them to continue to make their own very bad decisions. Its not been easy to stay away but my mother is a narcissist and extreamly toxic. She has no real friends shes burnt all her bridges she lit the last bridge with her own match. Only someone with a narcissist parent could possibly understand the constant emotional blackmail, tantrums and trauma.

She is picking you apart, and eventually there will be nothing left. If she is toxic, like you say, you need to get away from her. If at all possible, distance yourself from her.

It's time to think about what you want to do with your own life. You say that this is a temporary arrangement with your mother. If your mother can't care for herself, there are two basic options. She needs aides to go in and help her (this has been you for the past months), or she needs to go to an assisted living facility. You'll have to have a reality-based discussion with your mother to find out what her wishes are, and also to tell her what you are capable of doing to help her. What she chooses will depend on her wishes and finanical situation. Make sure that all of the paperwork is in order for you to be POA, if that's what you want. You may need an attorney to help with this. She'll need to assign POA for her medical directives and also for financial matters, a living will which state her medical directives, a will if she has assets. Banks and financial institions (credit card companies, etc.) often have their own POA forms, and you need to be on file with social security and medicare, and her doctors to be able to speak on her behalf. You are responsible to make sure that she is taken care of, but you don't have to be the one taking care of her. If she won't cooperate about making you POA, then the POA is the one responsible for her. Just remember that operations take a lot out of people, especially older people. Also, her condition may deteriorate over the years. Are you able to handle this?

That’s known as bipolar. My previous wife was that way. Leave her to her own designs protect her finances as best you can and let her go into Crisis then you can take action. The price you pay will be dire. I ended up completely isolated from friends and family because her stories were so very convincing.
The only things you are allowed to do, by law, is if she is a physical danger to herself or someone else.
I’m so very sorry! Meditate in prayer and see a counselor for your own well-being.

Tell mom you are going to go back home.
Pack your things and make what arrangements you need to to go home.
Since mom is fighting tooth and nail there does not seem much sense in it.
Often family has to wait until some event happens that will land a loved one in the hospital, rehab then you can stress to the Social Worker that it is unsafe for mom to return to her home.
I hope you have discussed with mom the importance of you having POA so in the event she can not make decisions you can do so for her.
You can not MAKE someone accept help
You can not MAKE someone see that they need help.
You do not indicate any medical conditions your mom has other than you moved in to help her after a surgery. If mom is cognizant she can make decisions for herself. If mom has dementia then she should not be making decisions and she needs full time supervision. If that is the case you might have no option but to seek Guardianship.
And if she has dementia there is no "winning" because Rule #1 is...you will never "win" an argument with a person that has dementia.
You go home and you play the "waiting game" you wait for something to happen that will make her realize she needs help OR you are forced to make decisions for her.

Often, if not always, there comes a time to LET GO. Sounds like you are there.
It is incredulously painful to watch a loved one, or family / friend who you feel for make decisions NOT in their best interest. Often though we are unable to intervene, for legal reasons or family dynamics, or both.
It ISN'T a matter of being WRONG.
It is a matter of accepting WHAT IS.
Your mom's MO is as you describe.
All you can do is not engage in the anger / arguing.
Acknowledge how she feels and leave it at that.
For instance, if she says something like:
"You did xxx and now you've caused me to feel anxious and angry.
Your respond: I understand you are feeling angry now at me.
DO NOT ENGAGE in her anger.
You are wanting / trying to use common sense and effective communication and compassion with a person WHO CANNOT do this. When you 'get this,' you will shift your feelings and dis-engage - give yourself some room "based on understanding - where she is mentally / psychologically / and distance yourself from taking it personally.
She will not change.
You can.
Yes, it may be very hard and even emotionally painful - this is your mother.
Do you take her bait. Stop being the fish she reels in !
After these episodes, do something NICE for yourself. You need to give yourself the positive, unconditional love that she cannot. You need to fill yourself 'up' with loving kindness. We all need to do that and not expect it from other people, even or especially our loved ones / our parents. gena

First, give yourself credit for educating yourself about her actions and your responses. I can tell by the verbiage you use you've done your research. If you're in your 30s, great because you've learned early enough to save yourself from more and permanent damage. Second, if it's as bad as you are saying and affecting your mental and/or physical health, consider leaving. You have to save yourself before she destroys you - if I'm reading the situation correctly. It sounds like what mine is/was so I know what you mean.

Your mom enjoys creating chaos and seeing you squirm... and you realize that this just isn't right. Some will call this narcissism, others borderline personality disorder, and others may point to other mental health diagnoses. The important thing is realizing she has a problem. Here are a couple of suggestions:
1 - Get her evaluated by a doctor. Start with her primary care physician who may make referrals to a psychiatrist, for mental health evaluation and treatment and/or a neurologist for dementia evaluation and treatment. Ask the doctor(s) to evaluate your mother for mental competence as well as mental health issues and dementia.
2 - Start creating boundaries on how you handle her difficult behaviors. I suggest reading any of the books about boundaries by Cloud and Townsend. They are counsellors who have helped many people dealing problem behaviors in others.
3 - Gather a healthy community of friends and family around yourself. Your mother may never change her ways, but you need people who love and nurture you.
4 - Decide the next steps. If mom is considered mentally competent, it might be time to put more distance between you. In other words, move out and let her be responsible for her life - and the consequences. If she has mental illness, she might benefit from inpatient therapy for a period of time. If she has dementia and is a danger to herself, it might be time for her to live in a residential community.

Nope, if your mom has her senses, you should let her know what and when you can help her and let her know what her options are as far as you're concerned then let her be. It's her life and you're not responsible for it.

You do get out of the game. It isn't your game. It's your mother's game - her appointments, her health, her wellbeing.

Wait until she actually asks you to do something to help her, and then - if it suits you and it seems sensible - go ahead and do that. Do *only* that. Don't be tempted to add on lots of extras unasked. Being her only child doesn't give you the right (or the obligation) to get involved uninvited.

It's often because older people fear having their lives taken over (and so would you, and who wouldn't) that they delay asking for and resist even the help that really would improve their own sense of wellbeing. They are afraid to let in the thin end of the wedge.

I merely informed my mom that she has a choice: either she behaves or she can fight with them in an old folks home. She straightened up fast.
So many folks see her as a sweet little old lady. I just ask them if they would like to take care of this sweet little old lady and they shut up real fast.

I have one question. She may be your mother but she has a very difficult personality and is making life hell for you. So why on earth do YOU feel obligated to tend to HER? What is wrong with you? You try to do all right for her and you get kicked in the teeth and she is the "angel". For god's sake, stop right now. First, tell her in no uncertain terms what your boundaries are and what her part is to be and what you will and will not tolerate. Give her an ultimatum - stop at once or you are GONE.....AND DO IT. Do, if possible, arrange for a caretaker. Do NOT let this woman or anyone for whatever reason and insane obligation you feel allow her to continue and get away with this. You are worth so much more. Stand your ground - eliminate this situation from your life now before she destroys you.

You should get some therapy for yourself. What you and your mom do together is a kind of a dance -- she does A, you react B, and C results. It's probably completely predictable, because everything you two do as you interact is what you've always done.

You need to learn some new dance steps, because you cannot change what she does except by way of how you respond. Get some therapy and arm yourself with some useful tools on how to deal with a difficult person. (If she has dementia, though, all bets are off, but you also shouldn't be expecting someone with dementia to be making her own doctor's appointments.)

This was a temporary, in your words, situation. You indicate it has been several months now. This should have been sufficient time to assess her situation and needs. If she refuses to work with you, then it is time to pack up and leave. If she has no cognitive issues (aka dementia), then it's up to her to see to her needs. Clearly she isn't working with you, so what's the point of staying?

If she has needs that she can't address, then report these to the doctor's office. You can sometimes lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink!

Let her discuss you with her "flying monkeys" all she wants. YOU know what you've done and tried to do, and it isn't working, so it is time to go. Don't let anything she says to you or the "monkeys" bother you. You know it is all lies.

"She really showed just how selfish she can be, that she could care less about her long term care needs, etc. Even if her lack of care causes others hardship. She doesn't care."

So, why should you care? You do, of course. Anyone might, even if it wasn't a relative, but your caring isn't going to change anything. You can still care and want to help, but on YOUR terms, not hers.

"What is wrong with compromising?"
Absolutely nothing. But compromise means both sides giving in a little. She isn't giving in at all, so there won't be any compromise.

"She can also be sweet as pie. People believe she is so nice and helpful, which she can be, but there is this side, when the "mask" is off, that I and maybe 1 or 2 others can see."

Many of us "see" this as well. It makes it hard, especially when she tells those who can't "see" all her BS. We can't change that, but we can refuse to be complicit in it.

At this point, if she is more or less capable of self-care, make a list of doctor names and numbers, what follow up should be done and leave that for her. The list could also have contact information for hiring aides, if she needs help in the home with cleaning, laundry, preparing foods, etc. You can include a note indicating that you will be willing to assist when absolutely needed, but keep that ABSOLUTE! For instance, if she can't drive, you either schedule shopping dates or arrange to have items delivered. You do NOT drop everything because she's out of milk. If she decides to go to an appointment, she either makes it for when YOU are available or she'll have to reschedule. Do NOT let her dictate when/where you are needed or what you will do. YOU decide.

Pack up your things and provide her with a departure date, and LEAVE on that date. No waffling! While to some this may sound cruel, what she is doing is cruel and somewhat abusive. We can only be abused and taken advantage of if we refuse to stand up to it. Make a stand.

For dr appts, make them yourself and then tell her when the time arrives. Let her know you picked dates that were convenient to you.

If this is just all about her normal personality, no dementia, then ask her why she makes it more difficult for you to care for her. . . is there someone else that she may think can do it better. . . would she prefer to live in a facility where her care is provided by others. You might also ask her - why would you say X and X about me. It is very hurtful and I'm doing the best I can to care for you. Sometimes they've played the mean game for so long - and it worked out for them - there was never a reason to taste the words before they were spit out of the mouth.

Put on ear plugs and to the best that you can ignore her/ Especially when she is berating you.

How much experience do you have dealing with narcissists? Sounds like your mom is one of those. Please do not expect any healthy relationship with such people. Their need to "win" at all costs is pathological. So you have to protect yourself first and foremost. Read up on narcissism - if you want to continue your involvement, you need to know as much as you can.

Imho, do not engage in acrimony.

dear next,
:)

hug!!

your concrete examples sound EXACTLY like mine.

i agree with what people say: it’s narc behavior.

i’m adding to that, regarding my case, your examples are identical!

-fights
-everything is a struggle, when some things can be solved in a simple/smooth way
-make the whole process/whatever decision take more time/energy

i doubt your mother would behave like this if you were a boy.

it’s because we are daughters. some mothers are quite mean towards their daughters.
mean, nice, mean, nice, etc.

what do i recommend?
it’ll never stop.

you might feel depressed, exhausted, etc.

i myself am lying in bed right now, trying to shake off this morning’s abuse/torture.

you might notice if you give your ideas/solutions to a man to tell your mother, she might agree with those ideas/solutions.

you see — the only real way your mother/my loved one will ever stop fighting/treat us well, is if they would be happy (you can have health problems and still be “happy”, overall happy person).

how do we make them happy?

they enjoy at times, being in a bad mood/angry/fighting. as someone said, it’s exciting for them! entertainment. it’s not by chance. it’s fighting on purpose because they enjoy it/get a high out of it.

how do you make such people happy?

they want conflict.
you want peace.

even if they’re “happy”, they’ll still want to lash out on you once in a while. you’re a great target to have.

to make them really happy, they would have to have quite a different personality.

try to protect yourself.
abuse/torture is damaging for us. it won’t stop. try to get others to say ideas to her, not coming from you.

really the trouble is, we’re like marionettes — they choose whether we get to have a relaxed conversation/good day or lots of fights.

hug!! try less contact (more ideas coming from a man/other person than you).

hug!!
i hope you have a GREAT day today!! :)

bundle of joy :)

I am the oldest of 8 and my mother bossed me around endlessly because she couldn't possible take care of this huge household without my help. When I moved in with her & my Dad to help take care of them, it was argue, argue, argue. She wouldn't change her clothes, take a shower, go to the Dr., go to the ear Dr. It was all control stuff from my childhood that she couldn't get over. Finally I put my foot down & me & the sibs got a very nice AL place. She loves it. (Thank god.) And I discovered the big difference between being cared for by a relative with years of control stuff mucking up the relationship and very pleasant but anonymous caregivers, different faces each day, who have no skin in the game. When she says she won't bathe, the gal on duty sends for the next most important attendant and when she has gone through a few layers of staff people she gives in and takes a bath. And she's OK with that! There's no emotional stuff getting in the way of what needs to get done. To me this is the great difference between trying to care for an adult myself and having caring, warm strangers care for the adult. I think people under estimate the value that comes from the staff in institutions not having the emotional connections that some of us struggle with.

Sounds like you are currently in the same situation that I am in but My Mom does not drive. The only thing I have found to do is make the appointments yourself and make sure that she gets to them. If she likes to argue all the time I have learned to let it go in one ear and out the other. I agree with you that the fighting gets old to and if I want to do something on my own I go and do it. My Mom also gets mad if I want to do something with my husband of 30 years. It is very stressful and I wish you the best of luck and hope you can find some kind of solution.