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If the durable POA has been signed 2 years ago with 2 witnesses, is it still acceptable to have it notarized now as well to add more validation?

ReallyReal, thanks for the correction. I see she posted 22 hours ago. I didn't it because I don't regularly check the nonmainstream answers, or answers to answers.

JoAnn, this is what BlueMoon wrote 22 hours ago:

"The forms for POA requires 2 witnesses or notary or both. At that time we chose 2 witnesses but recently someone suggested to notarize it too since then we don't have to deal with any headaches in some institutions. That's all! Just wondering if we have to do it all over again or not!"
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JoAnn29 Apr 30, 2020
I the long run, the OP has answered their own question. The paperwork says either or.
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JoAnn, I still think there's something suspect about this situation. And I note that the OP hasn't returned to respond to questions.

This post will linger on as people who've not yet posted will continue to post, but I doubt if the OP will in fact return .
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Isthisrealyreal Apr 29, 2020
Yes she has come back, scroll down and you will see her responses.
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The OP has still not answered questions asked.

Is the person who assigned POA incompetent? If the person has died, the POA is invalid. The Executor of the Will is now the responsible party. No Will, then someone needs to go to Probate and become the Administrator.
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"As someone else wrote, when you use a power of attorney, you normally don't have to produce it, and if you do, no one is going to ask for extra proof!"

I beg to differ. In dealing with my Moms finances and placing her in LTC, I was required to prove I had it. There was a copy at her bank. A copy at the NH. I had to send a copy to the insurance company. Anyone I dealt with in her name wanted a copy before they would deal with me. Why would anyone take your word u have POA. One financial institution wanted a letter from a lawyer stating that a POA from 2007 was still valid in 2017.
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Assuming you have the correct information for your state about witnesses, I think it's overkill and/or muddying the waters to have a notary also--even if you started over to make everything contemporary, which it appears you would want to do, if possible, if you wanted 2 witnesses and a notary. Just do whatever is correct in your state, and don't add extra, non-necessary witnesses/signers. As someone else wrote, when you use a power of attorney, you normally don't have to produce it, and if you do, no one is going to ask for extra proof! And don't worry about how old the POA is. Often on this list there are posters who are having problems becase their LO signed a POA long ago that turned out not to be a good choice, and it unfortunately remains a legal document.
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Isthisrealyreal Apr 29, 2020
Caroli1, just so you know, AZ requires a notary AND a witness on the DPOA, it is invalid without both.

This is why I recommend people go to their states attorney general website and see what the POA looks like, I guarantee that it will be legally correct and that you will have less problems with that form. They state what state statutes govern them and that stops a lot of problems, even BofA accepts them and they are notorious for denying DPOAs.
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State law would not, I don't think, require notarization OR two witnesses OR both, just one or the other. So this sounds like boilerplate internet language, where the obligation of the user of that boilerplate is expected to find out what the law in his or her state requires. It sounds rather like someone has discovered that in the particular state where this POA was needed, the requirement is for a notarized signature. In other words, this document is likely not legal and the OP needs to start over, with legal advice, rather than risk fraud.
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Isthisrealyreal Apr 29, 2020
Please read what I wrote to Caroli.
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Is the originator still competent/alive? If neither, no new POA can be done legally. If the person is deceased, a POA has no value. If the person is competent (therefore alive), a new POA form should be done as needed.
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OneBlueMoon,

You have responded to at least three of us with the same post, but you have not answered the question where did you get the POA forms from? You say they state that they need two witnesses or a notary, but are you sure that the forms are even valid in your state/province?

Is the person under the POA competent to sign new properly executed documents? If yes, then I think this is your best bet.

First contact the insurance companies, banks etc, so see what sort of documentation they need. No point in doing it over using a form that will not be accepted.

Are you looking at healthcare agreements too?
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JoAnn29 Apr 28, 2020
This makes me wonder:

"This is mainly for release of information by some institutions like insurance etc., since the person has nothing to even consider the POA to be a fraud!"

The only reason an insurance company or a bank need proof of POA is when the principle is not able to handle their finances even by phone. In other words they have a Dementia. If they can talk on the phone, there is no need for a POA.

In all it also depends on how the POA reads. Is it immediate or springing. Springing means the person has to be incompetent to handle there own finances. Usually a doctors letter is required.

One place I dealt with need a Medallion from my Bank. They would not except a POA.
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The whole purpose of the notary is to validate the identities and confirm that they saw everyone sign the document. That can't be done two years later.

Call a local law office and ask what methods are available to get paperwork notarized in your state at this time if the person is still legally competent to sign. If they aren't, ask what Plan B should be.
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I’m thinking no. If you needed two witnesses and/or a notary and you chose 2 witnesses sans the notary I don’t think you can even take the two witnesses with you and ask the notary to verify something they didn’t witness.
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Isthisrealyreal Apr 29, 2020
Please read what I wrote to caroli.
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BlueMoon, as to taking witnesses with you to a notary, that won't solve the problem. Notarization affirms the identity of the signatory of the document, i.e., whoever created it. It's that individual who's enabling and creating the written authorization and power for someone else to handle identified activities.

Witnesses merely do that: witness. They don't acknowledge or verify that the individual who executed the document was in fact the same individual who created it and is named at the beginning of the document.

The standard acknowledgment states that:

1. The individual named and who created the document is in fact the same person who signed.

2. This is a shortened version of the standard acknowledgment:

https://www.standardlegal.com/ACKNOWLEDGEMENT.pdf

It affirms that the signer appeared before the notary. That's the only way that the document you have will be considered legitimate and properly executed.


This is a friendly warning: you're flirting with fraud if you ask or have any notary acknowledge a signature when that notary in fact apparently never did so when the document was executed.

What's the real story here? Is the person who executed the document deceased, diagnosed with dementia? Something else going on?
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OneBlueMoon Apr 28, 2020
The forms for POA requires 2 witnesses or notary or both. At that time we chose 2 witnesses but recently someone suggested to notarize it too since then we don't have to deal with any headaches in some institutions. That's all! Just wondering if we have to do it all over again or not!
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Did u have this done by a lawyer? If so, one of his staff should be a notary and could have signed off when paperwork was signed. Or is this something off the internet. If so, may causeca problem because dates won't match. The notary has to see the person. So if in those 2 years the person has Dementia, they may no longer be able to assign a POA. If a lawyer drew it up contact him. Ask a notary. Your bank should have one.
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OneBlueMoon Apr 28, 2020
The person has nothing but this is just to be safe to have a POA for release of info for instance insurance etc.
The forms for POA requires 2 witnesses or notary or both. At that time we chose 2 witnesses but recently someone suggested to notarize it too since then we don't have to deal with any headaches in some institutions. That's all! Just wondering if we have to do it all over again or not!
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Who prepared the POA? Was it done by a lawyer or is it a boiler plate form you found online or in a book?

If it was done by a lawyer, I would expect that it would have been properly witnessed and notarized at the time.

Is this a financial POA or for health care or both?

Was the person competent at the time it was produced? If yes, who attested to that?

I see all sorts of red flags here.
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JoAnn29 Apr 27, 2020
Seems we were typing at the same time.
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How could you anticipate that a notary would legitimately notarize something signed not in his or her presence? No legitimate notary would participate in this.

Why wasn't it notarized during the signing?

Any notarization now, if you could find someone with no scruples, would only raise questions as to the validity of the document, something I also question.
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OneBlueMoon Apr 27, 2020
The POA forms require 2 witnesses or notary or both. Just to be safe I wanted to add notary as someone suggested.
Could I still take the witnesses with me to the notary?
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No, the whole purpose of the notary is to confirm the identities of the witnesses before they sign it. Banks, city halls, government centers and hospitals all have notaries. Sometimes you can find a private, professional notary.
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OneBlueMoon Apr 27, 2020
Should I take the witnesses who has already signed, to the notary to confirm?
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