Anyone have a parent who receives funds from the state for home health care but uses it for other things? Then expects his "kids" to do all the things so he doesn't have to "pay" someone and makes you feel bad because you don't have time to do it all?

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Another idea ask you office of the aging about meals on wheels besides getting good meals delivered 5 days a week you also have the benefit of someone checking on them those days and our nutrition center which is one of our counties senior centers' also calls the people getting the meals once a week to make sure they are ok.
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I am sure you are aware that if you allow yourself to get sucked into moving in with either of them, you are SUNK!
As you said, they ARE manipulative.
Their complaints are not about getting better or being proactive or following through.

Their expectations/"goals" or "wants" are not what they want
--like Dad riding horses...those kinds of "wants" are total run-arounds [decoys]
--no matter what you try, they will not do it, will back out.

My Mom wanted to have a house off-grid, in woods--said she loved being alone; alternately, she was gonna find a new partner who "understood" her [read: drinking buddy she could lead around by the nose].
She wanted me to design something for her, but many long hours spent designing something, even if to her exact specifications, were rejected.
Finding other persons who could build what she wanted-or something close to it, were rejected out of hand as "too expensive".
YET, she was, in part of her, really wanting me to build her a little house.
[AS IF I could do that!!]
Other parts of her really hated being alone, really was scared to death of living in the woods where larger wild animals were, and reallyreallyreally loved hot and cold running water, heat, and a flush-toilet!
Near as I could tell, from her behaviors, what she really wanted me to do, was be there at her side, beck-and-call, 24/7, while she puttered--better yet, while she told me what to do as she watched and pontificated.

Someone in that frame of mind, will never be happy no matter what you do, no matter how close what you do conforms to their stated their wishes.
That is a dependent/codependent behavior pattern.
When they lack the other half of that relationship, they start coming apart at the hinges, until they can get someone near them to fulfill that dysfunctional role.
If you cannot fulfill that role, you become the devil incarnate according to them, target for their wrath and drama.
They complain LOTS, cry on others' shoulders, with huge drama.
They weave lies with truths so finely, others' fail to discern what is true.
How they see life around them, does not match what is real
--yet they believe their stories 100%, in order to defend their bad behaviors to others, while targeting one [likely you] as the person causing all their troubles..
No amount of cajoling, reasoning, or doing their bidding, turns them around, UNLESS they really want to get better.
They don't.

You can avoid being the target by avoiding moving in with either of them.
And, by keeping your job, keeping yourself the functional person you have worked hard to develop into.

You can, I understand, call in an "Elder welfare check" to 911 services.
When you dial 911, it goes on record.
Records are important later on, when you may need to move one of them into an assisted living place, for instance.
You let the 911 operator know, you are "concerned for the elder because_________________"
An officer will go to their place, to check on them. They report back to you.
Be specific in your concerns, so the officer knows what to look for.

Since Dad rents, that can also be a push-point to get him closer in to the city...landlords do NOT like to be liable for injury to tenants.
Sometimes landlords ask tenants to move, telling them, for instance, that they need that unit to house a relative, or to do heavy repairs needed, or, etc.
It works best when an adequate alternate housing has been found that is ready as soon as the landlord gives the ultimatum
....if there is nowhere for Dad to go, the landlord might get in trouble with the State renter's laws--you might want to check those first, to find what loophole would work best.

Stick by your values--you are working within your limits, and not compromising yourself. Good job!
Next job is to find where/how to move Dad, it sounds like.

Hope things go very well, and easier than anticipated!
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That was very insightful and very much needed. Thanks! My father has Always been one of those people who think the gov't is out to get you and your $. My brother and i have tired to explain how it would be better to be in town. But he doesn't want to be a city person living in an apartment. He doesn't own his own home. He was in an accident when he was 47 and has a spinal cord injury can't use legs. He blames the hospital. He blames all sorts of things. I tired to line up the new evaluation. He wanted to ride horses. I got ahold of therapy ranches - then he tells me he doesn't want to use my time- even though i tell him i want too. I'm someone who follows through with what i say and he hides behind excuses. He is someone who knows how to manipulate others always has been.
I offer to pay for an exercise class for mom - no she doesn't want too. She does go to church but doesn't have any friends from there. She has no friends but she's a fun person. She is 57 and says she's done with life. won't go to a therapist - i offered to pay go with anything. i talk to her every week. I see her once a week or every other week. She wants to know when i'm moving back so we can live together. Yet she's happy i am engaged but not really since she has to "share" me. She moved to be closer to her grandkids with the $800 she had a few years ago. live with her son and get a job. Didn't work out so she moves back to my place and winds up staying a year. She has her own place and i want to see her happy but i am tired that its all on my shoulders- which i know its not my responsibility anymore but i hurt for her. I hurt for my dad. I'm tired of hearing what they don't want to do.
Thank you thank you thank you! i'm trying to remember that!
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Sounds like there are some dysfunctional behaviors from way back also going on--it only gets worse with age and infirmity!
While it is very altruistic to help out aging and ailing parents, and it is super to help them stay in their homes,
often, they become hopelessly fixated on that, even in the face of need to move closer to town, or into a care facility.

When a parent starts up with the paranoia about banks,
[there are some rational reasons for that...but!],
and fears moving closer to town, perhaps other people need to get involved in helping them choose more wisely for their current needs
--the Doctor, the registered nurses that generally do the home evaluations, social workers, crisis lines, etc...all might help guide him towards a better solution than staying in his home without adequate care. .

PLEASE clearly understand the difference between
"helping out as able" and
"going into debt or screwing your own future by doing it"
Many caregiving adult children have gone into debt, lost their own homes, used up their own retirement funds, been unable to properly care for their own families AND themselves, etc., by getting emotionally sucked into caregiving beyond our means and capabilities, for aging parents who can manipulate us into a destructive oblivion as no other can--all while convincing us we are guilty, and not doing enough!

No State expects adult children to impoverish themselves to care for their parents. NO rational entity would expect that. State, especially, wants the adult children to keep solvent, to build savings for themselves, to prevent them needing State help later.

Dad saying your working is useless, is out of line!
It sounds more like he wants to get you guilted into doing his home health care--for free-- to just give up your job to care for him.
As a single person, you can have a tougher time surviving in the world
--you NEED your job, and whatever benefits it has--those kinda take the place of having your own little family of "backup personnel/resources" in your own home. Families can often miss understanding that.
You have an obligation to care for yourself first
--none of us are any good anywhere to anyone, if we cannot care for ourselves first; that includes saving for retirement, backup savings for our own emergencies, proper shelter, food, recreation, etc.

It is too easy for us to get bit-by-bit connived into giving everything we have [like the frog in a pot of cool water slowly warmed to boil it], parents who do these behaviors--we were raised with them, therefore have a tougher time recognizing the games being played.

Dad lacks proper boundaries, and has unrealistic expectations.
PLEASE keep doing the good job of setting your own!
Keep reassessing where the boundaries really are, and if some corrections are needed at any time--the boundaries can shift daily
--seeing that and adjusting for changes, before a catastrophe happens, is tricky.
Many of us miss the cues early enough--then it becomes more difficult to correct.

Dad spending State funds earmarked for home health care, on other things, needs to stop. That can come back on him badly, if the State learns of it.

IF he is adamant to stay in his home, yet refuses in-home caregiving,
he is not thinking clearly,
OR, has decided he simply wants to die in his own home, one way or another--if that is the case, he will escalate in manipulating others to get what he thinks are his needs, met--and that can be at great cost to his family.
IF he has been manipulating you, he will likely have been manipulating others--and none know what others have been doing/providing, since part of the game is to keep any helpers from knowing anything about what others are helping with--it helps them get more.

IF he needs more legitimate income to achieve staying in his home,
perhaps a reverse mortgage might be a possible solution
--he would no longer own his home, but could stay in it til he dies or leaves to go into a nursing home, getting a monthly stipend.
BUT, if his health and age are too far advanced, a reverse mortgage is a poor solution--the bank would be getting a property almost for nothing if the person is advanced in age or illness.

SOME nursing homes or other elder care facilities, have taken on the ownership of a person's property in lieu of some payment for services...the person simply signs over their property to the facility. You would need to check wit one of those, to see how that is done, or if.

Mom needs social interaction and hobbies that take her time and responsibility! Empty nest feelings are tough--I know!
It might be as simple as Mom and kids keeping in touch via phone at least every few days or once a week--believe me, if my kids called to chat weekly, I'd feel over the moon! It has to be variable due to changing schedules.
We tried weekly Skype video-call with kid and family who live far away, but circumstances mean that doesn't always work out
--sometimes it is a couple weeks between--and believe me, those video calls are treasures!
Face time is precious, and helps maintain mental/emotional health of the aging parent, helps feeling connected.
Even if a kid asks the parent for their opinion on something, that is perceived as "you need me for something still"
--I am absolutely sure my dau. fakes that sometimes, but she's good at it--and it still feels great to know I am needed.
She is also very good at getting out of a call when she feels she needs to get off the phone.
Just a few suggestions.
Hope they help a bit!
Meanwhile, it sounds like you are working above and beyond the call of duty--keep reminding yourself of that!
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And i don't expect any money from my father. I pay for food, clothing, ect for him already b/c i want too. I helped raise my youngest brother $ and time after my parents divorced when i was 18. I still help my mom with things also but she works and that helps but she is lonely b/c her kids are raised. So while one parent tells me their life isn't worth living b/c nobody needs them and one parent who thinks i should help do more and more. I've had to create boundries. I'm 34 and never married no children of my own so they think i should just be thier help and compainons till they die.
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Its a state program that gives the person - my father who has spinal cord injury the choice to hire a company or hire their own people. I've offered to put up ads - interview - whatever to help - but he wants to do things his own way and won't budge- i know at some point things will fall apart even more then they are now. He's a control person and won't consider moving into town...if things go wrong its everyone else's fault. He has always been this way. Several banks accounts won't pay bills online (gov't is watching you)...blah blah. It could be so different and i guess that is what frustrates me. Me i'm a planner and he is not. Its his way or nothing but still he complains. It makes me not even want to be around him. I'm busy at work and have been working late. His reponse - you could be out here work is a waste of your time. hahaha he says.
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Someone getting State funds to help pay for their needs, means they are below some income level.
IF they choose to spend that money on stuff that the funds are not targeted for, they are out of line, and that funding could get yanked right away from them.

---Woman lets boyfriend handle her welfare check; kids do not get proper supplies and care as result.
---Elder gets help paying for their home health care fro the State, but, instead of paying for health care, they spend it on going out to eat, or, clothes, or other things that are not health care items.
---Adult receiving money from State, to assist them with living expenses, can spend that money only on basic living expenses--rent, utilities, basic needs.

SO, if they use home health care funds [how did they get control of those, in the first place?!?] , that would be illegal use of funds.

Welfare usually pays home health care workers' agency directly
--that money does NOT go through the person's hands.

I wonder what that money really is??

IF you are being paid as caregiver, and that money is supposed to be paying you as such, it still would be issued to you, not your elder being cared for...that is my understanding.

States differ on how much money family members are expected to spend out of their own pockets.
But most agree: family members cannot be forced to spend money they do not have/cannot afford--States do not usually force family to become destitute while caring for an elder.

Sounds like you need some legal/elder counsel advice.
You might be able to get some advice anonymously--which might be a good idea--if it turns out your Dad is committing fraud by spending targeted money for things it is not meant for, discovering that, and putting a quiet "course correction" onto it, might be a good idea.
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So long as Mom/Dad are competent (unless a Doctor in writing says they are not) - so long as they are paying their own bills/care and not expecting family to do it - then how they spend their money is their business. No one is guaranteed an inheritance - I would be glad for my Mom to spend every cent she has for her care and enjoyment. She earned it.
While I would not want to see her spend on frivilous things (QVC), if she goes on Medicaid they will do 5 year look-back on spending anyway (and life insurance policies are considered assets by Medicaid that would have to be spent for her benefit).
Whoever received these funds will be on the hook for paying back. Medicaid would have any life insurance policies (mature) cashed in and spent on Mom/Dad care before they pay.
If you are doing all the caregiving - let Dad pay you or help him get paid caregiver - sometimes they just don't know how to hire someone to be housekeeper or caregiver - maybe you could offer to help in hiring someone,
even if it is for just a few hours a week to start.
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All very good points. The problem i have is that he has no personal money, but has state funds to help with things. He uses it for other things instead of what its intended. He has found away around the system but then complains he doesn't get the exercise and night help like he needs. I've had very frank talks with him but no changes. He's 57 so i can't take away his rights and i figure its his life to live with how he handles it. We all have choices. His choice is to do nothing but complain. He says i spend too much time at my real job and fiance. It will bite him in the butt at some point. It doesn't make me happy to see him go even further down hill. But i realized after 3 years of giving it my all...i had to take care of me too. Its great to be able to vent here. thank you!
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Breadbaker, you need to tell your sister about this website.
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Oh forgot to mention that my father-in-law even cashed in life insurance policies that he had bought for my husband that were matured for the cash. You would not believe the horror stories. Make sure to check out their wills ---- we stopped over $75,000 going to the 85 year old "girlfriend" before his death.
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Unless a parent is deemed incompetent they can spend their money as they see fit. We just went thru this with my father-in-law who "blew" thru over $600,000 in just under 5 years. He bought new cars for himself and his girlfriend, took many trips which he paid for, paid everytime they went out to eat, and paid her to come clean his house which was a joke. There was nothing we could do to stop him. He would always say - it's my money and I will spend it the way I want to. And he did. Good luck !!
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It's amazing how much phrases like "and then [he] makes you feel bad" come up on this forum. Our parents getting older seems like a time in which WE need to grow up and take responsibility for our own feelings and actions, which would make us less vulnerable to manipulation. If spending all my money on whatever I liked and then acting like other people should fill in the gap for me WORKED, I might be tempted to do it too.
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You really can't do much unless they are declared incompetent and you are appointed their legal guardian.
The amount of money my mother has wasted over the past decade on QVC is shocking.
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Depending on where the senior lives, in-home health services for cleaning, shopping, laundry, etc. may be available at no charge. There are financial criteria the recipient must meet in order to qualify. Relatives, friends and neighbors who are getting hooked into being free labor need to ask the person if they would be willing to accept help in the home if there is no charge. If they say "yes", then the relative or friend needs to spend some time finding out if they qualify for city, county, state or federal assistance to maintain independent living. Local directories under your county and state will list local aging agencies that you can call that will answer your questions. If a senior has "resources" NOT to include a car and home, and those resources exceed about $5,000, they are expected to spend that money first, before relying on government assistance. Once they are down to $5,000 in savings, they should be eligible for in-home help, which is usually 2-3 times a week. If the person needs medical attention for any kind of therapy or wound treatment, the person's doctor can order a home health agency in to assess needs under Medicare, Medicaid, or private insurance. For socialization, find local senior centers that have activities, and accompany them there the first time or two. These centers can be hot beds of activities for all levels of interest and abilities. Transportation can be provided by senior centers, handicapped services or senior transportation agencies. Making some calls to find out what is available is the first step.
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Smile I am glad you brought up that subject -many elders think that they need to save money to leave after they die and are very tightfisted but they do not realoze that if they need complete care the money will be taken for nursing home care and they need to spend the money that they have or get as your father does for their care-some do not realize how hard it is to care for a person who lives alone-my husband told everyone I did not do much for him-the only time he used his hands were to eat. You need to set boundaries -start cutting back the time you spend decide how often you need to shop once a week or every other week whichever you decide and he needs to do more or hire-you would not report him but a nosey neighbor might and he could be in legal trouble and lawyers are not cheap-it is up to your sister what she does you can only control you. Let us know how it turns out we learn from each other on this form -I am glad you are going to a caregivers support group-I go to one to assist caregivers even though I am a former caregiver-I know the mistakes I made and at times can help those is the hard job of caregiving.
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My sister has the same problem with my father. He expects her to come over every night after work. I'm a bit off the hook because I live far away. I think it's reasonable to set expectations and boundaries. Grocery shopping and a visit once or maybe twice a week and maybe a phone call daily is probably o.k., but every night, no. My dad phones my sister at least 5 times a day whining for her to come over. We know he's lonely, but he won't move and won't pay anyone to come in, even though he could afford it. Rather have my sister do it for free. Good luck.
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Yea i agree!! i went out everynight for 3 years after working all day to grocery shop, clean, cook, help him to bed, write bills, ect. i gave notice after going to a caregivers group and therapy for a year now. i go out and visit but i makes me mad at him - he complains he doesn't get exercise and help but doens't want to hire anyone he can't "afford" it. anyways it felt good to get it out!! I love him and i understand the stupid rules but it doesn't make it right for him to do this but he's been like this his whole life. I have been tempted to report him but in the end i realize he's making his choices and i have to make mine. thanks!
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OMG! Really? Outrageous!

If I were one of the kids, I would not do for free what he is receiving funds to pay someone to do.

Unless there is some really compelling extenuating circumstance here, like he uses the cash for a drug he could not otherwise afford, I might even be tempted to report his behavior to the funding source.
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