How serious do I take suicide talk?
I have become 'friends' with the niece of one of my best friends.
This poor woman has it all. A rotten marriage (which I will attest is at least 50% her fault), Lupus, Rheumatoid arthritis, Severe scoliosis, recurrent infections (resulting in painful cellulitis on her lower legs), "random" excruciating pains (like muscle cramps in her abdomen and hips) and she's a hoarder of amazing proportions.
Basically, she is a hot mess.
My friend spends a bit of time with her, trying to 'help' her. We were there for 2 hours on Wed., changing her bed and trying vacuum a bedroom floor covered in clothes and junk. (we had tried last year to de-junk the bedroom for her so she had a place to be, but it was an epic fail, as she wouldn't throw anything away.)
I just kind of got roped into being with this woman, whom I do like, when she's not crying over her latest fight with her DH or crying over her latest run to the ED where they give her a pain shot and sent her home. It's a challenge to hear the same stories over and over.
She does not reach out to the Drs after an ED visit. So, nothing ever gets better.
She has pain pills of all varieties and strengths. I mean, TONS.
While I was there Wed., her aunt was starting a load of wash and I was trying to get "M" to settle down on a heating pad. She was crying so hard and said, "I just want this to be over. I'm so sick of the pain." I asked her specifically what she meant and she pointed her finger at her head and made the 'sign' of shooting herself in the head.
She's said before that her family wouldn't miss her (sadly, that is probably true) and she was just a burden. I didn't really react to her comments. I also didn't bring it up with my friend.
Why is it that I would tell any one of you that this person should be Baker-Acted and yet I can't even bring myself to tell her aunt (my friend).
It's not like she doesn't have means to do what she says she wants to do--I think I really don't want to be involved deeper than I am.
She is at the ED at least once a month. Should I pass this info on to my friend and let her deal with it? She often takes her to the ED and waits with her, as her husband won't anymore.
As far as 'getting better' I don't think there's a hope of that. Just finding a way to cope with the pain. The only thing I've heard is that her spine is collapsing on itself due to the scoliosis and that has to be excruciating. She was supposed to be in a back brace the last 8 years but refused.
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But helping can slide into enabling. The dividing line can be very tricky to see.
Each support she offers (cleaning, driving, listening) may be like adding string to a string bag...
If the contents of a string bag are too heavy they will break the bag. More support strings may delay this for a while... But they won't solve the problem. The burden is too heavy or too large.
A bigger stronger support system is needed for the Niece.
Make the calls to report her to her medical team. Step back.
IDK about the drying out part. I do believe she's in a lot of pain, but she treats it so hit and miss. We discussed that she needs to keep it under control, but not to the point she's stoned all day. She waits until it's unbearable and then takes something. Then more, b/c it hurts so bad.
3 of her Aunt's kids were drug addicts, so she definitely knows what that looks like. I don't think M is addicted, I think she doesn't know how to judiciously use the meds the Drs give her. Nor does she do her PT.
I hope that you can continue to support the aunt as your dear friend. So first open discussion time with the aunt in a neutral setting. Get the 2 person choir singing the same hymn!
Together, start someplace to get a psych home placement. Nursing home. Whatever! But shes playing with you both, unfairly attention seeking while NOT doing anything thats responsible for herself.
Gees, self destruction in all its forms seems to be a societal theme that touches us all whether we want it to or not. Sucks!!!! 💩💩. 👭 ...🏃🏃
As one person rightly advised me.,... Look at the two situations...#1 Your friend, the aunt, and #2 this niece. (#2 you can quickly stop and exit promptly.) Just try to help the aunt to move ahead.
The niece has things that need professional live-in facility care methinks. Just an opinion. Please tell all here how things progress...Dont look back!!
I am here show people the way, not be the way.
Her husband has probably putting up with this for years and is tired. Lupus kills. Scoliosis, would love to know her age. 45 yrs ago a friend of mine had rods inserted in her back to help straighten her Scoliosis in her back from Polio. 18 yrs ago my nephew has 4 rods put in to correct his. Braces did not correct the problem. Usually its a birth defect. Children are usually put in braces to help correct the problem.
Not saying that this friend does not suffer from these problems, but all are manageable with the correct treatment. She needs labs to be done and probably Hospitalized and dried out. All meds taken away and start back one at a time. I think, and Alva can tell me if I am wrong, but pain killers used the wrong way, opioids especially I think, can make you think your in pain so you take more. This woman needs to seek help. She's probably an addict. And you should tell her Aunt that.
Nice you and the Aunt go and clean up and do laundry. But thats as far as I would go. You can't help someone who is not willing to help herself.
You are working in concert with the Niece. You aren't a "mandated" reporter. And your moral code is your own, as to what you feel you should/could do here.
I myself would tell the niece of this as you are working with her for this woman, and she is family. I think if you don't, and this woman does do the act, you would feel in some degree guilty about not having shared the information.
To be frank, her wish to die is not inappropriate; she is not able to correct her behavior nor avail herself of all the help to make her life better despite years of help and intervention. The awful, the sad truth, is that life is simply too hard and miserable for some. They wish not to be here any longer. But whether someone is "better off dead" simply isn't our judgement to make, except in the privacy of our own hearts or souls.
That her case seems so hopeless doesn't mean that her wish is not reportable. To do a 5150 or a 5250 on her is a temporary fix, as is any intervention on your part, or her family's part in all likelihood. There is no real answer to her helplessness and hopelessness, and the only attention she gets now is got through her helplessness.
I hope you gave her the suicide hotline information. That would take care of your responsibility in the matter. If you tell your friend it is a shared burden; there is little to do. And you yourself can, of course, call a hotline and speak with them about her. As can her niece. This moral decision is yours.
It is a tragedy, isn't it. Seems so hopeless and tragic. Falls under "not everything can be fixed"; as sad as that is, it is true.
The AUNT is almost 80, the niece is 53.
She can't be 'ready for the day' until about 3 pm, so all dr visits have to be scheduled for later than 3 pm. That's just one stupid bugaboo in the system she's created.
She may also have a psychological condition called Munchausen's Syndrome. That is when a person claims to have every kind of illness because they crave the attention that others will pay to a sick person, the attention of medical professionals, and will use these imaginary illnesses to avoid taking any personal responsibility for themselves. She very likely is suffering from drug addiction too if there's as much pain pills as you say and if she's hitting up hospital emergency rooms to get pain shots. If her scoliosis was as bad as she claims it is she would have been using her back brace for the last eight years to help it.
Please for your own sake, DO NOT get any more involved and invested with this person. You do not need someone like this as a friend. People like this are incapable of friendship because they only know how to take and not give. They take, take, take and then expect more. They give and offer nothing.
This person needs to want to help herself. No one can help her if she won't accept her own faults and try to work towards getting in a better placce mentally and physically.
You can't get her there. Only she can. You can be supportive if she's trying, but don't be a chump. Don't listen to her complain and cry and blame everyone else.
Yes, she has all the above and more. But she doesn't take care of herself at all.
The scoliosis is VERY apparent, she in bent sideways and forward, creating a 'dowagers hump' that has gotten much more pronounced since I met her.
The lupus and arthritis are legit too.
But there is zero I can do to help her.
She probably has clinical depression.
I can bet if you told your friend about woman's suicide comment she wouldn't be shocked because i am sure this isnt the woman's first time mentioning this.
If I were you i would not be wasting my time helping her clean her house. You went down that road in the past trying to help her and nothing changed. Just like nothing will change this time.
She has tons of pills so if she was serious about killing herself she would have at least attempted it by now.
And yes a person like her is a real burden to her family. Sad but this woman will never change. Her dying of sepsis, which is very likely would be a blessing for her and her family (but we aren't supposed to tell that to people).
And don't let your friend rope you into helping this woman again.
My friend doesn't 'rope me' into this. I go if I want to and that's it. My friend is almost 80. This woman is 53. I guess I feel wore for my friend. At least she has been able to keep her niece from moving in with her and her hubby!
I've known this woman for about 4 years--I know I was still bald from chemo when I met her.
She hasn't changed one iota, and for that, I am not suprised.
Her aunt is one of those 'forever hopeful' kind of people, and M is lucky to have her in her life, b/c she seriously has NO ONE.
I've helped with some cleaning, b/c my friend was so overwhelmed by it---as sick as M is, her living environment is atrocious. Only her bedroom, DH keeps the rest of the house spotless. I helped twice, a couple years ago. I won't go back to that. (More like helping my friend, not M)
One of the big problems, is that she goes to the local University Hospital for all her care, b/c they will not turn you away. Doesn't mean they won't BILL you and she made the grievous mistake of never paying a dime towards her many hospital bills. Last year the AG's office garnished her DH's state tax return and hers. It was pretty awful, but didn't even begin to touch what she owes. If she'd even made token payments, this wouldn't have happened.
No, I am not cleaning there again. She has cats and I have to come home and shower and change all my clothes as DH is very allergic to cats.
Would I feel horrible if she did in fact follow through? I hate to say it, but it would be her choice and while I don't think she'd ever do it, it's sure unpleasant to hear it. (My own mother used suicide threats as a way to keep us kids in line, it's a REAL trigger for me.)