Follow
Share

My mom has her own attorney who I have worked with but they are not much for hand-holding. I met with my own separate attorney to ask what it would entail to have a professional POA and what my rights, obligations, and risks are in both cases. I still am confused even though at the meeting it seemed clear. My memory isn’t the greatest especially with all of the stress of dealing with this and my job and the legalese is not easy for me. She said something about a clause in the trust that allows the POA to be reassigned. It sounded like my attorney (and I also have another friend who’s done senior law who agrees) was saying that there could be something in the docs that allows me to make the choice. However, when I asked the attorney that Mom had do the trust, they said mom would have to appoint a new person and documents be drawn up again. I suppose we can do that but I just am confused what the other attorney meant. I will ask her next week but if anyone here know of a book or something maybe I will understand better. I try to read all of the articles here but it’s a lot and a book may be simpler.
Backstory: 25 years ago, my mother, who lived alone and was a very independent woman, successful behavioral health professional, skier, and adventure traveler, was 64 and was hit by a car and severely injured. She was in rehab for 6 weeks and I stayed with her for a year to help her during that time. After a year, I moved back home. Her career and health declined after that. She and I had a difficult relationship. She is narcissistic and mean. I got married and had kids but she was angry that I didn’t live near her and would rarely visit. In 2011 she had back surgery so I came and helped for a few weeks and we hired 24-hour care in home care for a bit. Mom liked one of the caregivers, Norma. My mom relied on Norma for most friendship and assistance doing fun things. Mom was still taking care of a lot. Later, they would hide problems from me unless my mom ended up in the hospital. Over time, I could see that her house was in worse shape. She would take too many sleeping pills and call me incoherently babbling and then not remember later. She seemed to be in cognitive decline. Her doctors and lawyers wouldn’t talk to me. My aunt was POA and I was second in line but my aunt did not even want it and regardless it wasn’t sprung. I did get her doctor to stop prescribing narcotics after several emergeny room and/or hospital visits for severe bowel impaction or falling. I could see when I visited and looked at paperwork that her affairs were getting more and more out of order. She was forgetting to send birthday cards and that sort of thing…which she had always been very vigilant about. Her vision was getting worse from macular degeneration. Norma enabled her in hiding issues and started doing more and more. Norma wrote all the checks, got cash from the ATM, went shopping with mom’s credit cards. They both would get defensive when I asked questions. Mom ‘lost’ her 3-carat diamond ring. When finally I did gain access to her accounts I could see she spends a lot of money to maintain her lifestyle. Cash withdrawals were high but maybe explainable. I see there were odd charges on my mom’s Costco card. When she needed a reverse mortgage then she really let me get involved. After a year of effort to do this finally my mom made me trustee and I got durable POA in May this year. Norma has been difficult, mom is protecting her independence, and trying to manage things from a distance with their lack of cooperation is too much for me with all of my other responsibilities. I’ve repeatedly tried to convince her to move into assisted living and/or move near me. She refuses. I am thinking that I may need to demand that she move to assisted living or I will turn POA over to a professional.

This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
Find Care & Housing
If you have POA, get mom tested for mental competence. If is not mentally competent, then place her into a situation that keeps her safe and healthy for as long as possible. Your post seems to imply that Norma needs to be relieved of caregiving duties.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report

Anyone can resign POA. No one can force you to serve.

If mom has cognitive decline, she may need to be in memory care rather than AL. That might help get rid of Norma because mom would be locked in. Yet if mom is enmeshed with Norma, the loss of her could cause further decline in mom.

This is a tough situation, and if I were you, I wouldn't feel welcome to be involved in mom's affairs at all. Just sayin'.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report

There may be. But I'm finding , in a pragmatic sense, a lot of it is more like an art than a science, do others agree?
not sure a book can do it justice...?
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
Fawnby Aug 8, 2024
You could call it art, but it's also getting up in the morning and throwing oneself onto a treadmill that never stops. Just slog along until someone dies, either them or us.
(1)
Report
Oh my, been told everything you are going through. She’s 85 and is sharp as a tack. But other times , I know she would never be giving us such a hard time getting her care. We are not well-off, but she makes a tad too much for assistance. I mean $27.00. I’m just trying not to go broke helping her and financially trying to make the best decision!
Helpful Answer (3)
Report
shirenagel Aug 8, 2024
I am so sorry that you have financial stress on top of it. I just won't pay out of pocket. My parents were not good. I might help my mother-in-law because she was actually there for my husband and me too. If you have a good relationship with your mom then that must be hard though. I would want to help my mom to my own detriment if we'd had a better relationship.
(0)
Report
See 1 more reply
Omg, so many familiar things you dealt with as myself with my mother
Helpful Answer (1)
Report

There are many books for sale.
However, I'd think you would want to (also) speak to an attorney.

This is one book I found:

Power of Attorney: The One-Stop Guide: All you need to know: granting it, using it or relying on it (One Stop Guides) Paperback – February 18, 2021 
by  Sandra McDonald  (Author)

One of the most powerful ways we can care for our future is to create a Power of Attorney. This simple document allows an appointed person to make decisions for us in the case that we can no longer do so ourselves. But what does it mean to be someone's attorney? And how can it be set up? 

This book is designed to offer clear, practical advice for anyone making this decision, or needing to exercise their rights. Drawing on over two decades of professional and personal experience, Sandra McDonald explains everything that you need to know about Power of Attorney, including:
- how to create the legal document
- how to implement it
- dealing with others and safeguarding

The result is an invaluable resource for anyone who is, has or deals with a Power of Attorney
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

shirenagel: Amazon sells a book on the aspects of POA.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report

Yes, there are several books that provide detailed information on the duties and responsibilities of a POA. Here are a few recommendations:

1. “The Complete Power of Attorney Guide for Consumers and Small Businesses” by Linda S. Lewis
This book offers a comprehensive overview of the various types of POA, the duties involved, and practical advice for both agents and those granting POA.

2. “Durable Powers of Attorney: A Handbook for Attorneys and Clients”
by Carolyn L. Dessin. Although this is more of a professional guide, it’s also useful for individuals seeking an in-depth understanding of POA duties.

3. “Nolo’s Durable Power of Attorney” by Shae Irving J.D. Published by Nolo, a trusted source for legal self help books, this guide covers the legal and practical aspects of creating and managing a durable POA.

4. “The Power of Attorney Handbook” by Edward A. Haman—This book explains the different types of POA, the legal implications, and the responsibilities of the agent.

These books should help you understand the roles and responsibilities associated with being a power of attorney.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
shirenagel Aug 8, 2024
Thank you so much! This is excellent. I figured NOLO must have one but did not search well enough apparently.
(0)
Report
Theodore E Hughes and David Klein authors of The Executor’s Handbook
is helping me
a step by step guide
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
shirenagel Aug 8, 2024
Thank you!
(0)
Report
Thank you for the constructive advice. Another suggestion from my elder law attorney that I was reminded of while writing responses is that I can hire a fiduciary as an assitant to help guide me through this process while maintaining POA and this may be my best option for now.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report

It is good that you took over control of finances. I assume by your post that she is still financially sound to pay for care. You can step back and wait for an accident. Before that, see if you can go to her doctors appointment with her and ask her if you can speak with the doctor about the next step for AL but MC might be more appropriate. He might be able to state point blank in her presence that it is time. He can also let you know if he can sign paperwork to confirm she needs care. You can visit a couple of places on your own to get the full picture and ask that question if doctor paperwork is required. If both answers are confirmed, then the marketing director will offer suggestions on how to get her there even if she starts out resistant.

Cou can also go the guardianship route since Norma is enabling her, and once completed, you will have full control.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
shirenagel Aug 2, 2024
Yes, thank you, if I can get myself down there for one or two month period I may end up applying for full guardianship. At this point even going to doctor appointments has been odd as Norma has seen this as her domain and has my mom convinced that she is especially qualified for this. Mom's memory is not at dementia levels unless she has a UTI. I think AL will be perfect for her. She has not been diagnosed and no doctor has seen fit to. I would like to have her do another full neurological assessment at this point though, and that is probably my first goal when I get some time to spend in her area. She had one several years ago and was not diagnosed.
(0)
Report
I recommend going to your states website and looking for the statutes that govern POAs. I found it to be pretty easy reading for the state of Arizona, other states may or may not be as easy but, I found the information invaluable.

You, as the POA, can NOT reassign it, you can, however, hire a geriatric care manager to act on your behalf, using your moms money of course.

Best of luck sorting this out, it is hard under the best of relationships and near impossible in bad ones. Remember that you matter too and if you have to wash your hands of it, that's okay.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
shirenagel Aug 2, 2024
I've not had the greatest success with the government sites being particulary user friendly, but I'll dig some more.

Tried hiring one geriatric care manager and boy was that a fail. Thanks for the good wishes. I am building more and more callouses to this debacle lol.
(2)
Report
Perhaps in lieu of a book, you could make your way through the wealth of POA information here on this site. Under Care Topics, select P, then scroll down to Power of Attorney. Or just use the search feature.

What I appreciate about the articles is that they often refer the reader to other resources; you may find your book that way.

Best wishes to you for your care as you strive to take care of Mom.
Helpful Answer (0)
Report
shirenagel Aug 2, 2024
Yes, I stare at a screen 10 hours a day already and would just like to read a book for a change. This, I suppose, is one thing that makes a fiduciary attractive. They won't have to relearn it all over.
(0)
Report
You cannot "turn over" a POA. You can resign by letter if your mother is cognitively sound and doesn't suffer from dementia, and should do so at once; this is a very difficult and onerous job, and if the person you are POA for isn't very cooperative it is almost impossible to do. Your mother, then being mentally sound, can appoint another POA or can hire a fiduciary, just as she would if she had no relatives or none willing to serve.

If you feel incapable (and with memory deficits imho you are not fully capable of this job) then you can resign even if mother has dementia, but this is a legal action at that point handled by an attorney as the courts will need to appoint a POA, a court appointed fiduciary, in that case.

Any way you are looking at it, a Licensed Fiduciary is the answer here. See an elder law attorney. They work with Fiduciaries in the court system and can guide you in finding one. My brother's ex partner had one himself when he had no family to serve as POA. This is a VERY difficult job.

I served as Trustee of Trust and POA for a brother who was well organized, very cooperative, and in ALF care. It is a difficult job at very best, and would be impossible with complications. See an attorney for options.

As to good books on being POA? I never found one and have a library of useless books about managing a trust that assume your elder is already dead. I found most of my information online and learning the hard way. It was a STEEP learning curve. And the anxiety of it all was quite horrific really.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
shirenagel Aug 2, 2024
Sounds like there is a market for a good book on this topic, eh? My memory issues are not dementia related. They are just normal, human, not fabulous memory issues. I never was great at repeating conversations and this is a talent that would come in handy in this situation. The stress of driving 350 miles in the middle of the night when mom ends up in the hospital and staying in her stuffy 80 degree house while trying to work from her home at a demanding job is certainly not helpful. I may try using AI from now on to take minutes of my conversations.

Yes, this is indeed a stressful task and the learning curve is ridiculously steep. It is ridiculous that it is made so difficult and we don't have a better system in place. I watch my friends' parents getting scammed and screwed left and right by predators and family. People's true natures really show up when there is a gullible elder to exploit. It's horrible. I am just as concerned about finding a good fiduciary as I am regarding finding a good attorney or caregiver. The odds are not great in my experience. And what it usually comes down to is the old adage "If you want something done right, do it yourself." I will be having the talk with her and she will be making a big decision soon because I will not be the one making all of the sacrifices here.
(1)
Report
This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
Ask a Question
Subscribe to
Our Newsletter