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Annabox Asked November 2020

I don’t think I’m angry - I’m just hurt. Is that wrong?

My father’s LTC facility is locked down still. I’ve been visiting him every day at the window (sometimes twice a day). Usually our visits are about 20 minutes and I’m doing most of the talking (he’s on the 2nd floor so we have to use phones to talk). Dad can speak very well and usually can carry on a conversation with no problem... in fact, if I brought a stranger to the window with me, he’d probably talk to them more than me (this has always been the case - even before dementia). Recently dad seems bothered when I’m at the window (almost like it’s a waste of time). He always says - “wasn’t there supposed to be someone with you? Who else is coming? Where is everyone else? Well, if you’re the only one here, we might as well cut this short so you don’t have to just stand there” During our visit, he says to me “why don’t you just come in?” I tell him I can’t (because of Covid and I do explain about how it’s spreads and blaugh blaugh) but I always reassure him that I’m not sick nor is he. He is definitely annoyed by the restrictions that Covid has put on everyone (THAT we agree on!) and I think when I’m outside talking to him through a window, it reminds him that we can’t see each other. Yesterday I went to the window with my husband and my son, who is 25 (dad has been asking for additional people,and he enjoys talking to “the guys” more than women, so I brought them with me!) He seemed annoyed when we got there and said to us, “well what do you want to say?”ugh it was stressful - mostly for me. We stayed for about 20 minutes, which is when dad said it was time for us to go. He barely talked to me, but when he did, it was like I was 4th wheeling on this visit. The whole thing was just odd (now I know why I go alone).
The very next day (THIS MORNING), dad called me 5 times before 11:00am. He started early so I was either asleep or didn’t hear the phone ring because I missed all 5 calls. Regardless, after the 5th missed call, I realized and then called him back. He angrily answered the phone and when he heard it was me (returning his calls mind you) he said “YOU ALWAYS CALL AT THE WOST D*MN TIMES!” I said I just wanted to call him back, and he said “I DIDN’T CALL YOU!” (Yes he did, and yes, I definitely was thinking “there’s the dementia again”) but more so it just seemed like he wanted to be mad at me. Ugh. I’m so tired of walking on eggshells constantly around him. I’m the closest person to him, but does that mean he gets to pounce on me constantly just because he has dementia, and I can’t explain that he’s acting rude??? My dad has dementia but I swear he knows what he’s saying. If he was a child, even a young toddler, I would explain that saying those things to me (or anyone else) is just not nice. I didn’t call dad again at all today after this morning - and he didn’t call me either (very odd because I usually get 10 calls a day even when I visit him at the window). I also didn’t go to the window today (first day I’ve missed in a long time). Yes I feel terribly guilty, but I also feel like I had to do what was best for me after the way we ended our call this morning. Is that wrong?

JoAnn29 Nov 2020
"If he was a child, even a young toddler"

They are like toddlers. They get self-centered. They no longer have the ability to show empathy. They can't be reasoned with. The shortterm memory is the first to go. So explaining COVID everytime you go is a lost cause.

I think visiting 2 xs a day is too much. My Mom was just up the road and I went once a day for no longer than a half hour. Your Dad probably doesn't even remember the visit. Really, ur visit probably means more to you than him. Its just how Dementia goes. Your relationship is not the same because he is not the same. His brain is dying little by little.

Please, no guilt. You need a break. And if you live in a cold climate its going to be hard to visit as it gets colder. Do not take what Dad says or does to heart. He cannot control the feelings he is having. He is not doing it to you, his Dementia is doing it to him. Let him lead how things go. If ur there 5 min and he says goodbye, then its goodby.

So sorry experiencing this but all of us with parents suffering from Dementia have been hurt by them. Look at him like a toddler, forgive him because he doesn't understand.
Harpcat Nov 2020
JoAnn your answer is spot on! I hope the OP takes it to heart because it is true.
lkdrymom Nov 2020
Honestly. You visit too much. He certainly doesn’t appreciate it. Visit twice a week. Call twice a week. He is nasty to you because he knows he can count on you always being there. Be there less often and see if that improves his behavior.

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lealonnie1 Nov 2020
My mother has moderate dementia & knows darn well when she's treating me badly & being rude. She does it to get a rise out of me, and always has.......nothing's changed except she's gotten meanER and nastIER than ever before. She enjoys being angry with me, and that's fine, it's her prerogative. And it's my prerogative how much of it I'm willing to take! It's not my 'fault' that she's nearly 94, has dementia & is wheelchair bound, with about 10 other ongoing issues, so I shouldn't take the blame for it. She's well cared for in her Memory Care ALF, and I bring her enough goodies and things which should satisfy her, so that's it.

I am not a doormat and neither are you. It's not okay for anyone to treat either one of us with disrespect, so we shouldn't allow it. As long as we don't say ENOUGH, they continue doing it. Even with dementia, when we leave a toxic situation, or say goodbye & hang up the phone, they DO get the message. He doesn't get to continue pouncing on you unless you continue to allow it.

You don't need to feel guilty for not visiting more often. It's like putting your hand on the stove wondering if THIS time you'll get burned? You know you will..........so after a while, you stop putting your hand on the stove b/c you know what the outcome will be.

If you cut down your visits and limit them to 2x a week *or whatever* then maybe your dad will come to appreciate and look forward to the visits instead of taking them for granted. And he may treat you a bit better as well.

If you swipe right on your phone, let his calls go to voicemail so you can return the ones you want to return, and forget about the others. Limit your phone calls to once a day and don't feel guilty about that, either.

We can't fix this for our parents. We want to, and it feels like there should be SOMETHING we can do to make their lives better, or to calm down the confusion and the agitation. But the more we try, the worse it seems to get sometimes, isn't that true? There is only SO much you can do for your father. Let him know when he's hurting your feelings b/c it's not okay, dementia or no dementia. We're human beings and daughters & deserve to be treated with the same respect & kindness we show THEM. Maybe not 100% of the time, b/c everyone has their 'off' moments, but we certainly don't deserve to be verbally assaulted ALL the time.

Wishing you the best of luck setting down some boundaries & rules moving forward with this relationship. It's tough, but you can do it!
CantDance Nov 2020
Agreed! Those with dementia often do "get the message." Given my mom's memory loss and confusion, I would not have expected it, but she responded to consistent boundary enforcement with less hostility and more appreciative behavior. In other words, she "sweetened up." Caregivers don't have to be verbal pincushions or punching bags!
funkygrandma59 Nov 2020
Sounds to me that you need to cut your visits back to perhaps just twice a week, instead of every day. Why continue to put yourself through the pain and trauma that it's causing you? Dad will be just fine with the fewer visits, and you won't have to be leaving upset every day. It's really a win win situation for the both of you. He's not getting upset and neither are you. Perhaps with the fewer visits, he will come to look forward to them and be more kind to you. You have to make sure that you are taking care of yourself too, you know, and that includes your mental health as well. Wishing you the best.
disgustedtoo Nov 2020
"Perhaps with the fewer visits, he will come to look forward to them and be more kind to you."

Maybe. One can hope, but I wouldn't hold my breath! I do agree cutting back the visits, but only to alleviate the pain and hurt OP gets from these visits.

All too often, the dementia patient lashes out at the one person who does the most for them, whether it is caring for them in their own home or the person's home. It may be they just feel more comfortable venting to someone they "know" really well.

Cutting back on the visits and calls will reduce OP's stress somewhat. Answer the calls he makes, but cut back returning calls or placing calls. By the time you return a missed call, they've likely forgotten they called you! Placing calls, might be good to find out if there's a better time of day for him. Some people are more easy going certain times of the day, usually (but not always) in the morning. If he's more uptight in the afternoon or evening, don't call or visit at those times.

Bringing someone else along, even if he ignores OP, sounds like a good idea! May be that he focuses more on them, but it also might be something that dampens his venting (mind your Ps and Qs when others are around, best foot forward, no airing dirty laundry around others!)
squee2000 Nov 2020
My Mom's mental status has noticeably declined during the lockdown. Increased confusion and anger and irrational thoughts. She gets mad at me over any number of things. The concept of a quarantine has become hard for her to process, and she sometimes blames me for her restrictions. Yikes.

I know she is not to blame for her confusion and anger. I'm not hurt, but I'm frustrated and sad. It's been so hard to watch this decline and feel so useless.

I've been visiting her outside her window most evenings. I bring fruit and snacks - she is appreciative, usually, so that's a nice thing. But even this has taken it's toll on me - I can feel the cumulative affect of the stress. I've had to cut back to 3 or 4 visits a week. It's better for me - my mind and body needed a break.

It seems like you need a break, too. Reduce your visits, if only for now. Focus on self care. This will give you extra stores of energy to deal with Dad's dementia. Are your husband and son able to schedule in a visit or two?

Don't feel guilty - you're a good daughter! He's lucky to have you.

chatbratstar Nov 2020
I have MCI, CADASIL early-stage dementia. You need to understand emotional lability and disinhibition. You do not understand that dementia changes personality and behavior.

You are taking his illness personally, and that is a mistake. You may think he can improve, but no. He will likely become apathetic, which for you may be a relief. Then he may be unable to talk anymore, which again, for you, may be a relief. Then there is frustration intolerance. We can't help it. Many brain drugs are risky for worse health.

Brain failure is brain failure. I can't believe the things that come out of my mouth sometimes. I was not like this before. But to be punished for being disabled is not an option. My dementia is genetic, I did not ask for it, I did not cause it, I cannot free myself of it.

The same is true of your dad. When he is too much, leave. Walk away. You can. We can't.

HadItUpToHere Nov 2020
I have to agree with the others on the frequent visiting. I think if you give him “the gift of your absence,” as so many have told me he may back down a bit, and if you return a call much later and he blows up and gets nasty, you say, “Ok, talk to you later,” and hang up. I used to think that (out of guilt) I had to talk to my mom more - now in my case she does not have dementia, and it turned out I was actually bugging or even yes, bothering her. I backed off a bit and it eased up.

Your dad may or may not be aware of what he’s saying to you, but for your own sake do not feel you have to chase after something you may not get — kind words, a nice visit, etc or hope for it “the next time.” It may happen one day, sure, and your dad may turn around here and there, but if you’re like I was for many years, in that you can’t be ok until he’s ok, you must start thinking of yourself first. If he wants to be grumpy cranky yelly, well that may just be the day. Lower your visits and calls-not eliminate them, but lessen them, and you may just see a change. We do not deserve the abuse. They may not mean it (or who knows maybe they do) but nastiness regardless of where it comes from is unsustainable to anyone’s mental health.

Taarna Nov 2020
Unfortunately, your father has lost his social filter so every thought and emotion is laid - the good, the bad, and the ugly - out there for all to experience. Usually outbursts are also a sign of anxiety, fear, and frustration about things he can not understand or control. Please set and reinforce boundaries on his behavior so you stop being the emotional "punching bag." Also consider talking to his doctor about adding a mild anti-anxiety agent to his medications.

NeedHelpWithMom Nov 2020
Anna,

You are entitled to your feelings, so please don’t apologize or question them. They are normal emotions.

You’re hurting. How could you not be effected by any of this? You have valid reasons to be hurt.

Step away for a bit to get a clearer perspective on the situation. You are too close to everything to see clearly.

eeyore12 Nov 2020
No you are not wrong for feeling hurt. I would be concerned if that happens and it doesnt bother you. I noticed you said even b4 dementia he always talked to others more than you. I would say that is a red flag. Needless to say, since he now has dementia, the ability to hash that out with him may be gone. I agree w another poster. If they say something rude or hurtful on the phone to tell them ok well I will talk to you later and hang up. You do not have to allow anyone including those you love (even w mental issues) to treat you as a rug or a whipping post. Whatever you allow will continue. For some of us we don't have our boundary lines spread out far enough. I have had occasions where that my husband would dig in verbally to me when I would go to visit. I calmly, said to him. I can see you are not feeling very good I will come back another day and promptly proceed out the door. Sometimes, he would call out to me to please come back and would straighten his behavior up. Other times, I had to just keep walking. The 50 million dollar question is how to tell when someone is acting bad because of mental issues or just being a rude jerk. There is also the possibility that frequent visits can be more damaging than helpful. In that visits can remind some people of the freedom they have lost. I talked to a lady that is a resident where my husband is. She told me that she never took advantage of the 3 day furlough that residents can have to go home each month. She said it only served to keep her emotions in turmoil. She was able to deal w her living situation much better by keeping a solid routine each day. I would suggest to consider backing off and give Dad some space. Doesn't mean you should visit. Just not as much. And not so long.

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