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Charliana Asked July 17, 2024

What do you do when the person you are taking care of flips out and thinks you are trying to kill them?

I didn't know what to do so I got my dad. Then mom thought he was trying to kill her. Then the imaginary people were trying to kill her. This was the first episode like this. I stay Monday and Tuesday nights at my parents house because the rehab for the broken hip didn't want to release her to just my dad, so we have someone there all of the time. She finally sat in the chair for awhile. And when she talked about the imaginary dogs instead of someone killing her I asked if she wanted to go to bed. We went straight to bed in the t-shirt she was wearing before anything else could happen. I can't deal with this

JoAnn29 Nov 10, 2024
Please note, OP updated that parent has passed.

So sorry for your loss.

cover9339 Nov 8, 2024
Interesting this came up.

Incident in an assistive living facility in New London Ohio

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MACinCT Nov 8, 2024
ER for a "social visit" and ask for a 72 hour psych hold. Just about every state has a form of the Baker Act. No refusals allowed for dad

LoopyLoo Nov 8, 2024
Call 911.

AlvaDeer Nov 8, 2024
What do you do?
Basically you get an ambulance and have this person transported back to care, because they are in no condition to be cared for in the home.

This sudden change requires a checking for urinary tract infection right away.
Has this been happening when you are not there?
Is your dad fighting to keep her out of care and with him against all reason?
Is your Dad fighting how severely ill she is?

Right now your father is being enabled by your helping with this.
Clearly, by demanding you be there, the hospital or rehab ALREADY KNEW this is not a safe discharge, and it isn't. Mom doesn't belong now in home care.
You need to tell Dad this isn't sustainable and you are backing away so that he can understand your mother needs now, for whatever period of time (perhaps permanently) to be in care. She should be in a situation where she can be medicated and cared for. She needs more than you and dad. She needs several shifts of several people each, proper diagnosis and etc.

Next outburst is a call to EMS, ambulance transport to hospital, and hospitalization until you can find out what is going on here.
Charliana Nov 8, 2024
The problem was solved with citalopram. She was put on hospice in september and passed last night. Now my husband is in surgery.
Charliana Nov 8, 2024
How bad can your luck be. While we are talking about funeral arrangements my husband calls in severe pain and now we are at the emergency room. I guess I will sleep tomorrow night.

Grandma1954 Nov 7, 2024
There are other signs Hospice can tell you to look for.
And PLEASE if you do not want to be alone when mom dies as Hospice to send a Volunteer. There are specially trained Vigil Volunteers that will stay with her. One of the goals that Hospice has is that no one dies alone. So please use this service, it will give you support and peace.

Charliana Nov 7, 2024
We are now at the end. Mom hasn't woken up since Tuesday. When the hospice took the vitals at 2:00 am last night, they were good. Now the nurse from today said she has a temperature of 102.9 and high blood pressure. They said Tuesday night she only had a few days left. I think the change in vitals makes it faster now.

I won't know what I am doing by tomorrow night because I do night shift and get up every 4 hours to give her medication, then go to work all day. I would have taken the day off, but I thought since the vitals were good last night we had several more days.
AlvaDeer Nov 7, 2024
I am sorry to hear this update. Do the best you can. Speak with hospice about "the signs" including the cooling of extremities and the color changes there as well. I am wishing comfort and peace in this transition.
JoAnn29 Aug 27, 2024
I answered before and just skimmed thru and do not see where you mention your Moms age. DPOA is for financial, does brother hold Moms Medical POA/proxy? He needs the Medical to make those types of decisions. If Mom has a Medical Proxy that will list what she wants and does not want and thats what you go by.

By 85 we knew my Mom had Dementia. At 80 she was diagnosed with bladder cancer and cured. 5 yrs later her Urologist was still doing scans. I stopped them. If she had bladder cancer again, we would not have done the treatment.

If I were you, I would not do the treatment and the doctor is nuts for even considering it. I would not put Mom thru that. Let her final days not have people poking and prodding. I would call in Hospice. They will keep Mom comfortable and pain free. A nurse will check in 1x a week and be on call 24/7. You will get an aide 3x a week to bathe Mom, usally for an hour. You may be able to request more time to give Dad some time to get out of the house.

MargaretMcKen Aug 26, 2024
M has cancer and dementia. Her decline is now not ‘slow and gradual’, ‘things keep getting worse’, and ‘we are going downhill fast”. Perhaps it’s not TOO fast, sometimes it’s the quicker the better for everyone’s sake.

My head CT scans didn’t affect my hair. It might be something else.

Have courage!

Charliana Aug 26, 2024
It seems like we are going downhill to fast. We are at the doctors office for an appointment all of the time for something. We are just finishing up the antibiotics for the light pneumonia. Now today I have to go pick up a wheelchair because my sister in law is having trouble getting her to the bathroom. Shouldn't this be more gradual since the cancer doctor said it was normal for her to have abnormal white cell count because of her history. I thought that dementia would be like it was before, slow and gradual. It is different every week, and things keep getting worse instead of staying stable for awhile.

Also after having the 2nd CT scan her hair started to fall out. She has a bald spot on the back of her head. What is safe to put on her hair to keep it from falling out.

Charliana Aug 5, 2024
My brother is going to be on vacation this week, so now I am the one that has to go with them to the cancer doctor. I did not want to go to this appointment. We do not think she can handle another round of chemo, but if the doctor suggests it, I would have to be the one to say another round of chemo would be too much for her, and I am not the one with DPOA. And my dad already did the last round against my brother's advice. That is why her dementia got so much worse so fast. Even though I know she can't handle the chemo, it doesn't feel right to say no to the treatment, and it doesn't feel right to say yes since it will just make the dementia kill her instead of the cancer.
MargaretMcKen Aug 5, 2024
You need to accept that your mother is very ill and that the end result is that she will die. Your part should be to keep her comfortable and as happy as possible, not to say 'yes' to treatment like chemo which is designed to cure.

You can't cure old age. One thing you can change is your own feelings. "It doesn't feel right to say no to the treatment?". Stack the treatment up against "keeping her comfortable and happy'. Make doing the right thing 'feel' OK to you.
Charliana Jul 22, 2024
They put her on an antidepressant. The first day after going on it, she woke up happy instead of crying. And we have not had a flip out where she thinks everyone is trying to kill her since. She goes in today for a chest Xray and some lab work which I would have thought they should have done the first time she was at the doctor's office.

Unfortunately my aunt who helps on Wednesday night has a swollen disc in her back and is not going to be able to help for awhile. I don't know how long that takes to heal, so I am back to 3 nights a week instead of 2 unless someone can find more help.
Isthisrealyreal Jul 22, 2024
AND it goes just like that when we keep elders that need 24/7 care at home. People get sick, injured, go on vacation or just get done with it all. Best of luck finding solutions that work for everyone.

So very happy that the doctor gave her something that is working.
Grandma1954 Jul 18, 2024
Since you put this under Dementia I am going to assume that mom has dementia.
Has the type of dementia been diagnosed?
Some medications can be harmful for some types of dementia. So if she is on a pain medication I would check that out.
Talk to her doctor about the hallucinations and the agitation. If mom is beginning to get violent when she has a hallucination this needs to be addressed before you or your dad gets hurt.
It possibly is time to talk to dad about Memory Care for mom. Probably not what he wants BUT it will be safer for him, safer for mom and safer for you.
And dad can once again become a husband not a caregiver, you can become a supportive daughter not a caregiver.

by the way noting wrong with going to bed with the tame t-shirt on that you have worn all day. If that is how you can get mom to bed then go with it!

I saw a reply below that you gave and you mentioned CCL I did not find a meaning for that I did find CLL a type of cancer and since you mentioned chemo I am going with that.
Chemo is a game changer and it can effect the brain, cognition and if there is "mets" to the brain that also plays a part.
My honest opinion....and you may not like this.....
If mom does have dementia. A recent break to the hip. And cancer.
I would probably discontinue treatment for the cancer and call in Hospice.
Any treatment for the cancer is going to be rough.
Rehab and getting around with a broken hip, even if it is healed
Diagnosis of dementia (that is probably going to get worse more quickly due to the chemo and the cancer)
Hospice is the choice I would make for myself or for a loved one.

Tough decision, an HONEST talk with her doctors if they are HONEST with you and dad as to what to expect on all aspects of her care and outcome.

OncehatedDIL Jul 18, 2024
I did a quick check and yes, leukemia can metastasize to the brain.

Mamacrow Jul 17, 2024
Sorry, but it looks like it might be time for her to go into AL memory care and Your Dad as well.

JoAnn29 Jul 17, 2024
You say nothing about the ages of you parents. I will assume elderly. Broken hip is very serious.

Did the doctor give her anything for the hallucinations? Or is he waiting to see if a UTI is causing it? I saw nothing about Mom having Dementia just the cancer. Chemo does give people "brain fog". Also, people suffer from Hospital delirium too. I think if was 3 weeks in Rehab, I would have some delirium too. I guess the doctor checked for pneumonia too?

If you have PTO time or vacation you may want to take off a few days. No sleep and no food make for a lousy employee.
waytomisery Jul 17, 2024
Op chose dementia as one of the topics of her question along with broken hip , burn out etc .

But I agree it could be a number of factors causing this . Sounds like that last round of chemo made her very frail , which is not uncommon in causing the beginning of the final decline .

Honestly, it sounds like a total step down due to multiple factors and needs placement .
olddude Jul 17, 2024
Your parents need to be in AL - right now.

KNance72 Jul 17, 2024
Chemo can really effect the Brain also . Maybe time for the ER again Like Geaton said .

OncehatedDIL Jul 17, 2024
Any chance her cancer has advanced to her brain? Brain mets will cause those same issues.
Charliana Jul 17, 2024
It is leukemia so I don't think it advances like that.
Geaton777 Jul 17, 2024
Her hallucinations and paranoia means she needs to go to the ER now. I don't think I'd even wait for the UTI test strips to come back. Tell the EMS you don't know why she is hallucinating (if you tell them you think she has dementia they may not take her as this is not considered a life-threatening emergency).

Once in the ER make sure the staff knows she is an unsafe discharge -- do not take her back home for any reason because she needs more care now than anyone can give her. Make sure your Dad doesn't go get her, either. She may need to go into the psych ward to see if medications will help calm her. That's what they had to do with my cousin, with early onset ALZ... she wouldn't go to Urgent Care or with the EMS so her son had to pick her up bodily and take her, and she fought him the entire way. She did have a UTI which got treated, but they also kept her in the psych wing until she would comply with taking meds for her paranoia and agitation.

Are you her PoA? If so, bring the paperwork. If she doesn't have an assigned PoA then at the hospital ask to talk to a social worker to see if she can be transitioned directly into a facility. Do not believe them if they pressure you to take her home and "promise" to help you find help once there. This is a bold-faced lie they tell to get people discharged.

I'm so sorry you're going through this incredibly distressing situation!

Charliana Jul 17, 2024
She was at the doctor yesterday. They sent stuff home to get a sample to test for a uti, so we should know soon if it is a uti. This morning she woke up crying and talking about people with guns, but at least she didn't think I was trying to kill her. I can't keep doing this. I havnt hardly slept for 2 days, I have a full time job to go to when I leave, and I haven't had time to eat a meal since Monday afternoon.
waytomisery Jul 17, 2024
Just call EMS as a said below to go to the ER. Mom needs to be cared for either in memory care, or SNF depending on her mobility and other issues .

Did you mean CLL ? If so , that could be causing oxygen deprivation to her brain due to anemia .
KNance72 Jul 17, 2024
She may have an Infection and Needs antibiotics . Some One else said " Anesthesia can make Things worse . " You need to consult her Doctor .
Charliana Jul 17, 2024
No anesthesia because of her other health issues. She is really frail because of the CCL. They let the hip heal on its own. She was at rehab for 3 weeks and physical therapy came here to work with her. She is in remission now, but the last round of chemo made her go downhill fast.
waytomisery Jul 17, 2024
The next time she’s like that call EMS to come and bring her to the ER , tell them she’s not herself , maybe UTI or pneumonia .

At the hospital I would speak to a social worker about placement . This is too much to handle at home .

Mom will be likely to have these episodes on and off if she gets UTI’s. And if it turns out it’s not a UTI , then it’s the dementia advancing which also is now too much to handle at home .

Either way , Don’t allow the social worker to talk Dad into bringing her home , you say it’s an “ unsafe discharge “.

Sorry to say but a broken hip often causes a significant decline in someone with dementia, that they do not bounce back from .

The fact that rehab didn’t want to send Mom home without someone there at all times along with Dad is very telling.

Jaeterese Jul 17, 2024
Speak to your doctor about anti anxiety medication?

LoopyLoo Jul 17, 2024
Mom needs medication and it’s probably time to consider placing her.

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