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Onhold1 Asked April 2023

Do you believe APS and state surveyors really do their job?

My 96-year-old mother went to the hospital with back pain and my brother, without asking me, took over POA for healthcare. MD apologized. I do live in another state.


My brother and controlling sister-in-law placed her in a nursing home, in an Alzheimer’s dementia unit. My mother does have a touch of dementia, but is not diagnosed with it. A psych doctor saw her at the hospital and gave her incapacity. They did not want her to live on her own anymore. Mom refused to live with me.


My mother and sister-in law-have not liked each other and when my mother found she was placed in a nursing home, she would say nasty things to my sister-in-law. My mother was her own person and lived independently prior.


My overly controlling sister-in-law requested she get something for anxiety like Ativan. She told me only 1mg. I said no Ativan because she could fall. Sure enough she fell and to this day has pain in her leg. After the fall a nurse told me she was placed 0n 3 mg a day. Way too much. They changed it to 1mg again after she fell. I was not able to do anything other than call APS and the state. My brother and SIL had in writting in the chart not to give any info to daughter. The state and APS did nothing after my complaint. Unfounded.


I am just sick with guilt. My brother does nothing because his wife runs everything and lies. He has Parkinson’s and is dependent on her.


I am at a loss of what to do.


The Attorneys do not want to touch it because I am not the POA. My brother is also DPOA.


When I call mom she can hardly talk to me. I can tell when the Ativan wares off and I can talk to her a little easier. To me this is abuse and she will die on Ativan and I'm unable to stop it. She has now been on it for over 4 months. I read it should only be used for short term aggression. She has no aggression and is now addicted to it.


This seems criminal.


I looked at guardianship but I don’t think there is enough time for her. She is deteriorating.


Appreciate any help and who to talk to.

MACinCT Apr 2023
She was placed most likely because the hospital physicians found that she has dementia and is no longer safe. Your inability to visit exacerbates your lack of knowledge that she was getting worse. As others have mentioned, mom now has a POA. Unfortunately if you make too much noise, you can be shut out.
Oftentimes, relocating a senior with dementia or even the hospitalization itself can cause falls and delirium. Sometimes it clears up overtime

If you cannot visit, then plan your phone calls to the time she seems more lucid. As for just your saying that your sister in law is controlling may not change readers minds that we agree with you. Your mom is safe right now but do consider with her age, mentality, and recent hospitalization that she not be around next year. Go visit her while there is still time for you and mom to have a meaningful conversation. And mean it like this may be the last time you may be able to do this. Make nice to those family members who are responsible for her care. It is still not an easy task to be POA.

Fawnby Apr 2023
You need to accept that someone else is authorized to handle mom’s issues. Move on from your anger, which may or may not be justified.

If there was an old POA, it had to be revoked before a new one was put in place.

You love your mom. Be glad she’s being taken care of in a place where her needs are met. She’s 96 with mental decline, and she doesn’t have much time left. Be supportive of her and stop obsessing about that which you cannot control.

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AlvaDeer Apr 2023
I agree with everything JoAnn said below. I also agree with Blueeyedgirl and Ann that we can't really unpack a familial problem this complex with one side of the story.

I wish you the best of luck.

JoAnn29 Apr 2023
You have been posting on and off since Sept 2022. I am sure the POA that your brother has has been discussed. In an earlier post, you say your are alternate. Your brother cannot be POA unless ur mother assigned him. Since you mention being an alternate, then it must have been done legally. A psychiatrist has said she is incompetent to make her own decisions. That probably put brothers POA into effect.

APS cannot help u because brother has DPOA. He is not suppose to give you or anyone else info on Moms health or finances. You being an alternate does not mean he has to tell you anything. He has a right to tell the staff to give you no information. Staff should talk to him and only him.

Since you live far away, I would let my brother do what he needs to do. Even if u don't agree. Mom put him in charge. Because of his Parkinson's, his wife probably helps him. He is probably stressed and that does not help his Parkinsons.

Your Mom could not have been placed in a NH without fitting the criteria. I think what you need to do is allow your brother and his wife to do what needs to be done for Mom. Especially if stepping back means you can see ur Mom.

BarbBrooklyn Apr 2023
3 mg of Ativan a day is still a pretty minimal dose.

What drug would you have your mother on for anxiety and agitation?

Are you well-versed in psychotropic meds?

BlueEyedGirl94 Apr 2023
I agree with Ann - there is a lot to unpack in your post. What caught my eye in particular was this statement:

"my brother without asking me took over POA for healthcare. MD apologized. "

POA isn't something a person can just take over. I'm not sure I understand what you mean. It has to be invoked and it has to be in writing. A person can't just walk in to the hospital and say "I'm the POA, here is what is going to happen" they have to be able to prove they are the POA. If he was able to take over care decisions for your mother, that should mean that she legally made him her POA and it was invoked based on the terms of the document. He wouldn't have to ask you for permission to do that job.

Unless you were the first in line as the POA and he somehow convinced a doctor to bypass you or that you had relinquished your assignment. Or that you were both equally POA, in which case it would depend on how the document was written up. Or are you the ACTUAL POA and the doctor bypassed you entirely? (in which case more than an apology is needed).

Because if there is a legal POA in place you cannot just "take over" for them. Something legally has to happen that the actual POA is no longer able to do the job or they choose to relinquish the position. And even then that doesn't make you the POA unless you are next in line in the documented succession.

If there WAS no actual legal POA document - then I'm assuming the doctor just started making decisions based on who was present?

The dynamics you mention with your brother and SIL are concerning and I'm sure you are worried about your mother. But as Ann mentioned -cognitive decline can happen very quickly at that age. And they can be very lucid one moment and completely different the next. We are experiencing this exact phenomenon with my 97 year old grandmother right now. It is alarming.

Any doctor worth their salt in a medical facility is going to observe behaviors and attempt to treat a patient based on symptoms and diagnoses. I"m not saying it doesn't happen that sometimes patients are treated incorrectly or that patients aren't overmedicated or given the wrong medications on occasion - but more often than not there is a reason for the medication choice.

You mention talking to her on the phone - this is often a very difficult way to discern the realities of how a person is doing. If you only talk to my FIL on the phone - as his sister does - he is a healthy, strong 89 year old man who can still drive, still see, still hear, is mobile and everything is great. We just moved him into a skilled nursing facility yesterday. Because he is nearly immobile, legally blind, can only hear with hearing aids when he wears them, and he can no longer live at home safely even with family taking care of him.

You say she refused to live with you. And that you live in another state. But you don't mention how long it has been since you have seen her in person. Is it possible that her health has declined more than you realize?

AnnReid Apr 2023
There are a whole lot of conversation starters in your statements.

What is a “touch of dementia” in your understanding? Did the psychiatrist describe her cognitive state as such, or is that your description? Psychiatrists do not “give” incapacity. They observe behaviors and diagnose.

Your mother is 96. At her age symptoms of cognitive decline can appear rapidly or more slowly, but are not unexpected.

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