Can a non medical home care agency discontinue service related to non payment of office fees with less than 24 hrs notice?
The agency’s caregiver is paid weekly at 1700.00 per week and office fees are 700.00 per week it’s hard to catch up. Can they discontinue service with less than 24 hrs notice? Txs
Are you behind on your payments to them? If so how far behind and have you spoken to them about the arrears? They definitely can stop services for non payment and they may feel that a verbal discussion (if you have had that) is a valid notice. Assuming that you signed some sort of contract with them, you probably want to go back and read it carefully to discern the commitments of both parties. They need client's payments to keep up with their own expenses; even non- profits have to cover their operational costs (salaries, benefits, utilities, office supplies and machines, maintenance, etc.).
Also you mentioned that you did not have a great experience with previous stays in STR facilities and that in the future you would insist on full accessibility. I understand how important it is to be able to see and advocate for a loved one - been there and done that - but just keep in the back of your mind that a good facility wants to care for all of it's guest. In the midst of a pandemic - or any large scale infectious situation even if it only within that facility, they have the need and right to restrict outside visitation to protect all the residents as well as their staff which is why almost all STR and LTC went into lockdown eventually unless a resident's end of life was close as determined by doctors and hospice and then one family member at a time was allowed a "no touch" visit.
It's a difficult time for everyone including staff who can't stay on lockdown because they also have families to care for - and yes, that's the rub because they can through contact with their children could certainly bring a virus into a facility but there is really not much that can be done about as somebody has got to go in and care and cook for folks. There was one STR that was going to admit a new resident for rehab but family would not agree to lockdown status so they had to take him home as hospital had no room and real danger of covid contagion there at that time. They made it for about 3 days before they called and agreed to lockdown policy at the STR. Unfortunately, that facility no longer had an available bed so they had to take another facility a little farther away from the family; the second facility was also on lockdown. This was a couple of months ago so hopefully things will return to normal soon.
Wishing you luck and peace in this journey. Please keep us updated
Of all the answers, no one has addressed the "its hard to catch up" issue. Is it a matter of finding the time to write the check, or finding the money to cover the check? Time is on you, but the money MUST come from your dad's accounts. I sincerely hope you are not paying his bills from your accounts. Do you have durable POA over his finances? If he is low on funds, he/you need to be working towards getting him on Medicaid. If this is the situation, have you spoken to an Elderlaw attorney? First consultation is free. Has any estate planning been done? With his hospitalizations does he have a Medical POA/MOLST/health care proxy? These are such important legal documents to have. Having been through it, and having almost waited too long to do it ourselves, I can't stress to everyone how important these legal documents and planning are. I know these are difficult conversations to have with a parent, but they are extremely invaluable for your parent's future.
Certain agencies try to get around state regulations by invoicing caregiver fees and office fees separately. Be very careful of them. Do they cover their caregivers under their workers comp? Or are you responsible? It can also be used as a marketing ploy. Without being in the business, it is very hard to determine your risks with this type of agency. It is definitely 'buyer beware'. They may have done you a favor. Check with other agencies who do business differently before you go back to this agency.
What state regulations are they trying to get around? If they are a legitimate business (corp, LLC, etc) and they have employees then they will need to cover their worker's comp. I've run a business for 38 years (not in caregiving). The hourly rate I charge is dependent upon ALL the costs of doing business: rent, insurances, office supplies, professional services, state, local & federal taxes, wages & compensations, etc. It is "caveat emptor" (buyer beware) no matter how you hire, but you carry ALL the burden when you hire privately. When you hire privately, you then become the employer and must comply with your state's employment laws for withholding, reporting and taxes. You are checking all the references and referrals and doing the criminal background checks, doing the scheduling, finding subs on the fly when they call in sick. Also, if the agency aids were paid any more, that cost gets passed on to the client -- you.
For everyone that thinks this company should not be getting paid, how do you think that they keep their doors open? How do you think that they provide worker's compensation insurance and pay all the matching taxes and labor burden that goes along with having employees?
Most places hide their cost by making it an hourly fee that is all inclusive, that's why an aid cost upwards of 25.00 hourly.
I would imagine that they break their services and fees down to accommodate those that can use the aids wages as a tax deduction. Makes sense.
What you have to understand is these are for-profit agencies and are in business to make money. The aides get about $18 an hour, the rest goes for insurance, back-ground checks, etc. by the agency. If you or your father signed a contract then you are obligated to pay the bills. It would be the same in any other type of company.
I agree with tThe other comments and read the contract. I does seem harsh that you were only given 24 hr notice. Is there more to the story?
Depends on the contract you signed with them. But what on earth are you paying an office $700 a week for? and why is a non medical agency being paid $1700 a week? These seem excessive fees for non medical care.
There are agencies in the US that only supply aides, usually Certified Nurses Aids (CNA). These aides have no medical background. They cannot distribute meds unless they have had extra training. Their duties may consist of bathing, toileting, some light housekeeping, preparing meals, dressing and maybe laundry. It depends on the clients needs. 1700/2400 weekly is about average. I figured at 16 hours a day at 2400 a week is about $20 an hour and that is low.
Holly, have you read the contract, very, very carefully, to see if there's a provision to this effect? When I was trying to find a good agency for my father, I noticed that some of the less desirable agencies used smaller print in their contracts, perhaps thinking that someone wouldn't take the time to read all the sneaky provisions.
I want you to know that what may be a company's "policy" might not actually be legal to do. I've worked for several care agencies before going totally private pay only. The office bills the client or their insurance company then takes their cut of the money before the employee gets their paycheck. If they're taking $700 out of the $1,700 a week you're paying out, then you shouldn't owe them anything. Whatever agency you are using is trying to pull some underhanded dealings. Check with the Department of Social Services in your state about this one. Speak to your state's Ombudsman if you have one as well. Then drop the agency you're paying "office fees" to. Go on a care website and find a private pay live-in caregiver. You can even hire two. One to stay during the week and one to work on week-ends. There will be no office fees involved and your LO will get far better care. Why pay office fees and administration costs? How does your LO or family benefit in any way from the fees you're paying the "office"? You don't. So, stop the agency shakedown that's costing a fortune. Hire private help.
Many Thanks! Agency was referred by hospital social worker as the “only in home live in agency in area” at the time I didn’t question a knowledgable colleague. I was wrong. They are non medical. However the staff are paid as aids. And more.
For the money being paid out for care, wouldn't it be better to place Dad in an assisted living? Then you no longer deal with agencies. My Moms BF is living in a place near u called Cardinal Village. Its on Hurfville-Cross Keys rd.
He was in acute and sub acute rehabs from Feb 2020 until recently and he lost 100lbs, had two septic incidents that were near fatal and a bowel impact ion which required surgery. COVID has made it impossible to advocate for loved ones and if he goes into another facility I will insist on full accessibility. Thanks for referring Cardinal I’ll look into it.
I hire through Visiting Angels (south FL) and have never heard of "office fees". If you signed a contract with them, I would first scour it to see if it is mentioned in there. If it is, then you are probably on the hook for that charge. If not, then I would push back. If you don't know what office fees are, ask and insist on an itemized invoice to review. If it still seems dubious, take it to an attorney to review. I'm sorry you're having this headache!
We had Visiting Angels for Dad. They were great and he liked most of the aides. What you have to understand is these are for-profit agencies and are in business to make money. The aides get about $18 an hour, the rest goes for insurance, back-ground checks, etc.
As a private agency I guess they can do anything they want. I have never had to hire an agency but never heard of office fees. I would think everything is worked into the hourly fee. Others will pipe in.
Welcome, I live 45 min South of you. My Mom is from Hurffville.
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Also you mentioned that you did not have a great experience with previous stays in STR facilities and that in the future you would insist on full accessibility. I understand how important it is to be able to see and advocate for a loved one - been there and done that - but just keep in the back of your mind that a good facility wants to care for all of it's guest. In the midst of a pandemic - or any large scale infectious situation even if it only within that facility, they have the need and right to restrict outside visitation to protect all the residents as well as their staff which is why almost all STR and LTC went into lockdown eventually unless a resident's end of life was close as determined by doctors and hospice and then one family member at a time was allowed a "no touch" visit.
It's a difficult time for everyone including staff who can't stay on lockdown because they also have families to care for - and yes, that's the rub because they can through contact with their children could certainly bring a virus into a facility but there is really not much that can be done about as somebody has got to go in and care and cook for folks. There was one STR that was going to admit a new resident for rehab but family would not agree to lockdown status so they had to take him home as hospital had no room and real danger of covid contagion there at that time. They made it for about 3 days before they called and agreed to lockdown policy at the STR. Unfortunately, that facility no longer had an available bed so they had to take another facility a little farther away from the family; the second facility was also on lockdown. This was a couple of months ago so hopefully things will return to normal soon.
Wishing you luck and peace in this journey. Please keep us updated
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Having been through it, and having almost waited too long to do it ourselves, I can't stress to everyone how important these legal documents and planning are. I know these are difficult conversations to have with a parent, but they are extremely invaluable for your parent's future.
Most places hide their cost by making it an hourly fee that is all inclusive, that's why an aid cost upwards of 25.00 hourly.
I would imagine that they break their services and fees down to accommodate those that can use the aids wages as a tax deduction. Makes sense.
I agree with tThe other comments and read the contract. I does seem harsh that you were only given 24 hr notice. Is there more to the story?
Check with the Department of Social Services in your state about this one. Speak to your state's Ombudsman if you have one as well.
Then drop the agency you're paying "office fees" to. Go on a care website and find a private pay live-in caregiver. You can even hire two. One to stay during the week and one to work on week-ends. There will be no office fees involved and your LO will get far better care. Why pay office fees and administration costs? How does your LO or family benefit in any way from the fees you're paying the "office"? You don't. So, stop the agency shakedown that's costing a fortune. Hire private help.
Dad in an assisted living? Then you no longer deal with agencies.
My Moms BF is living in a place near u called Cardinal Village. Its on Hurfville-Cross Keys rd.
How overdue is your father's account with them?
I don't know about can they discontinue service with less than 24 hours' notice, but I'm guessing that they *have* ???
When we agree to fees and utilize the services, we have to pay or lose the services.
I am sorry that you are going through this. You do have to pay though.
Welcome, I live 45 min South of you. My Mom is from Hurffville.
caregiver fees and office finder fees it’s horrible!