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He shouldn’t be driving. His doctor can recommend that dad stop and pull his license. The doctor can tell him no more driving and you could be there. Then immediately, because you already have someone in place to drive him, you tell dad that Joe Doe from down the street will be available 2 mornings a week or whatever. You or dad will pay $ to Joe. Then instead of long commiseration, you go home. Dad is manipulating you by saying he’d be better off dead. You’re supposed to object and say you want him to live, etc etc but if you don’t, he’ll have to resign himself to a new reality. He shouldn’t be allowed to endanger others.
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It's probably time now if you're asking? I believe it is one of the hardest things to do and if you consider it for yourself you will understand instantly. No just jumping up from your lawn chair and into the car for a quick trip to the grocery! No deciding last minute it's a good time to go see a friend!

With my husband we had many a "discussion" in the driveway and eventually he gave in, I just wore him down. We are alone so it was either me or stay home, no one to call. I would suggest perhaps you could find a driver for him, maybe at the local Senior Center they would advise you. I would also go to the local key cutter, buy a blank key that looks like his, and replace the real keys with this. You can often even buy a blank remote control. Guys seem to like keys in their pocket and if the key doesn't work, so be it, must be the damn car!

I have also heard that you can disable the car right there in the driveway so he can see it and know the repair shop is overwhelmed and will get to it asap! As in never!

Be strong, believe all these stories on here of deaths caused and guilt taken on, don't let it happen to him.....or to you! Best of luck to you, and God bless!
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if he wants to remain home, why not check into home health agencies? if he collects government assistance, i.e. SSI Medicare or Medicaid they maybe able to help pay for his care. A Home Health Aide could drive him around, cook, clean laundry and simple companionship. next time you go to a Dr. appointment, talk to him/her about a home health plan and see if they'll give you some information.



Colleen Pell.
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When my 2 eldest children were teenagers, my oldest son was driving them home from school. An old man pulled out in front of him. My son swerved to avoid t-boning the car and killing the old man's wife. My son hit a tree on the golf course next to the road. My son and daughter only sustained minor injuries, EXCEPT, to this day, my daughter apparently has some PTSD related problems from this. She gets very anxious when she is in a car while someone else is driving. My son's Camaro was totaled. He hurt his knee and daughter had bad seat belt bruise on her chest. If she hadn't had on her seat belt she most likely would have gone through the windshield and hit the tree head on. I wish I could post a photo here of the car after the accident. Surprisingly, my daughter had the presence of mind to get the old man's license plate number. He had pulled over, looked things over briefly, then drove off. Cops did get him. It was horrible. We could have lost 2 of our 3 children all because of a selfish old man.
THIS WAS ALL BECAUSE AN OLD MAN WAS DRIVING WHO HAD NO BUSINESS BEING BEHIND THE WHEEL OF A CAR.
I was so fortunate when my stepdad realized himself when he was getting to the point that he should not be driving. Please, for the sake of everyone else on the road, do not let him drive.
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Mysteryshopper May 2022
I nearly cried when I read this. You are so right - you nearly lost 2 of your 3 children because no one cared enough to take his keys away from this guy who should not have been behind the wheel. PTSD from car accidents is very real. My car was totaled with me in it by a druggie who should have been in jail (he'd been granted probation despite numerous run ins with the law). Nearly every day I can hear the impact and I can hear myself screaming inside the car as I was hit. I was sitting still at a red light BTW. This was years ago. It does not get better.
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No, don't second guess. Trust your instincts. My father-in-law should have stopped driving years before he did (he had Alzheimer's before he died in March 2021). It wasn't until he had an accident where he totaled his Explorer, and had a knee injury bad enough to require he rehab in an assisted living home that my husband (an only child) insisted that his mom hide her truck keys. My father-in-law was VERY angry, and there were many explosive arguments between him and my husband. He never gave up talking about buying a new car. The DMV eventually pulled his license. It took a lot to get his stupid doctor to agree he should not drive or assist us in having his license revoked. I understand why you agonize over the choice, but it is necessary. I went through it myself with my mom a few years ago. It is never easy. Eight years later my mom still talks about wanting to get her license back. It's heartbreaking. Stay strong, you're looking out for your dad, and as hard as it is, you have to take care of him like he did you when you were a child, and couldn't make good decisions.
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Debstarr53 May 2022
My mom, who has dementia lost her license years ago, but she still mentions getting her license and getting a car. We just say how nice that would be and change the subject.
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At the risk of sounding blunt, how is it that people can rationalize letting someone with dementia access to a set of car keys? Mom had a heart attack back in January, showing signs of dementia; after testing the neurologist signed off that she is not allowed to leave the house without adult supervision and no more driving. I took her keys away and that was that. She’s bitched, moaned, cursed me out and threatened me that if I don’t give them back she’s calling the police. I offered to dial the phone for her… after many times reminding her that it’s not safe for her or the other motorists if she gets behind the wheel, much like a drunk driver. It sucks, reasoning with someone with dementia is impossible but you need to be the adult in the changing dynamics. Good luck :)
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We had the same situation when my mom turned 80. There is a mandatory drivers test and she failed. I was happy that it was the doctor and license agency that took her license away but it was me she was angry with. I told her all the advantages, she has taxi service on speed dial and can go anywhere she wants, no car maintenance, insurance or gas to pay, but taking away her car was a terrible experience for her. What happened the next year is her PSW suggested she get a mobility scooter, you need to have an assessment for this, but in our case it worked out great. She can zip around go to the library and the bank and the store on her own. you might talk to the care workers to see if this is an option. Granted, she can still run into things and they go pretty fast, but for the most part safe for everyone, and they get a bit of fun and independence back.
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cpell122112 May 2022
Been there done that. i'm in an electric wheelchair. when each of my parents had cancer and needed a scooter to get around, fortunately, i never got rid of my scooter when i got a new chair, that's what they used. we use to chase each other around the house and play hide and seek. when we'd go to a store, they would use a store scooter. they felt as independent as they always did, right up to the end.

good luck,

Colleen P. Pell
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Well, if you continue to let him drive, either he or someone else WILL die, when he gets into an accident.
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HollyDolly May 2022
Exactly. Or he could be severely injured like my father-in-law was, and wreck another person's vehicle on top of totaling his own.
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Based on everything you have told us, Dad is no longer safe to drive. Do not bring his car back to him. Set up an Uber or Lyft account for him, so that he can go where he wants when he wants.

Handling the emotional part is the problem. Get a social worker involved to deal with his anger, and let his doctor know. Dad may need medication.

Blame the doctor: once it is in his medical record that he was advised not to drive you can send that information to the department of motor vehicles and have his license suspended or switched to a non-driving ID. It is out of your hands once the licensing authorities are involved. The worst Dad can do is refuse to see that doctor again.

This is all about Dad's safety and long-term wellness. It sounds like the beginning of many conflicts that he is unable to understand. God bless you for your compassion and love for your father, and give you the patience you will need.
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Yes. I took away my wife’s keys several years ago when she scared the crap out of me going to the eye doctor. The most difficult thing is to sell her car because she believes she will drive again.
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I remember attending my first elderly caretaker conference years ago and this was a major topic. The main recommendation was to provide the LO with a list of ride providers prior to taking away their car. As we grow older, I think that the one thing we are most anxious about is maintaining some part of our independence. There are sources for free transportation (from local Senior Citizen Center to/from their facility for daily activities, some Medical Advantage plans will pay for free rides to doctors' appointments). Also you might want to also look into getting a driver to pick up your LO to attend a regularly scheduled event/lunch with their friends. Your local Agency on Aging can provide you contacts for transportation options.
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Don't second guess yourself. It is unsafe for him and others if he remains on the road. It is not about what he wants, but about what is safe and what he needs. He is very lucky you are so close and can help with so many daily needs and doesn't actually need a car.
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Has dad been declared mentally incompetent and POA authority legally transferred to you?
If not, you can’t just take his car.

So while I agree with you and the neurologist, try another approach. My mom stopped driving and said she went from being a senior to old.
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You’re smart in that you physically took the car. I had a somewhat similar situation except for the ability to walk to places. I must of taken 4 sets of keys. She would hide them every time I came over. New keys just kept showing up. I disconnected the battery and the helpful neighbor came over and repaired it. When the doctors told her it was dangerous for other people if she drove and I suggested financial liability on her end she continued to be adamant that she only drove on Thursdays to get her hair done (same place for 50 years) and the grocery store. The grocery store was less about food and more about cigarettes. That’s another topic but I would go to her house and discretely put chalk marks behind her tires to see if the car moved. The next step would have physically removed the car but I certainly didn’t want it at my house and I couldn’t find the title to sell it as POA. The bottom line is that it’s less about the car itself and more about independence, choices, and control. It will be devastating but your dad’s car needs to physically be taken away or kept away if that’s still the case. He’s going to be extremely angry and will probably punish you through words or lack there of because that is something he can control. I’ve talked to and read a lot about this topic and having the car taken away is a real game changer. Lastly expect some physical decline as I believe that attitude correlates with health conditions. If you want to be practical and or political suggest that with gas at $4.00 a gallon (in Indiana) that nobody is driving when they can get around via other transport methods! Best of luck to you-
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I would suggest using the doctor's comments for your refusal to give back the car. And ask the doc to send a letter to the DMV. The doc can also order a test to see if your dad is capable of driving. It is like a physical therapy order for rehabilitation. Trying to reason with someone doesn't always work, especially when their mind is not what it used to be. I tried that too. Using the doctor's authority can be beneficial.
My 60 yo sister with brain cancer refused to stop driving even when she wasn't safe. As I had no authority I couldn't stop her but tried for years (DMV would only accept doctor requests at the time). We were "lucky" that the accident that totalled her car resulted in no injuries for anyone. But I refused to help her buy another car until the doctor said she could drive. Doc ordered the test and it came back as negative for driving.
Never easy, I do understand and wish you the best.
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We were having the same battle with my step-father. I finally reminded him that he may feel comfortable taking his life in his hands, however how would he, especially as a minister, feel should he hurt of kill someone else because of his stubbornness. He does still drive to the grocery store a few blocks a away, but we take him to all appointments and any place else that is further than that. That also is very time limited. the doctor can send a letter to the DMV and they will revolt his listens. You won’t need to do or say anything.
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YES! Return the car, with restrictions though. That car is more than transportation, it is his life. Make the transition soft. Don't take it away. Instead, park it in the usual spot. Put an electronic lock device on the ignition. He can sit in his car. You can drive him around in HIS car, or even be a passenger in his car if you think it is safe, e.g., non-traffic times. You can drive him in HIS car to some of his regular routes. He wants to look outside and see HIS friend. He can still change the oil, wash and polish his car, put his stuff in the glove compartment, check the trunk. Just having ownership is something.

I am aware of the incidents in the DC area (where I also live) outlined below. Yet non-senior drivers also do wreak havoc; driving on unsafe and busy roads is plain risky, with substandard signage, potholes, speeders, lots more. I agree with Sohenc about Uber or a volunteer driver assigned by a seniors program (in the DC area we have Senior Connection). My car was vandalized, so I learned how to Uber, but charges mount up. Uber is easy, convenient; you can add $ into his account. Drivers usually appear within 5 mins here. Free senior driving programs are everywhere. Holding a drivers license is dignified but does not mean he has to actually drive. I was caring for my mom, I could not get to my renewal appt; it's awful, Virtual driving youtubes might fulfill the lost thrill of driving; the technology exists for you to video his regular routes -- not a bad idea as a memory support. Or maybe just take photos of his old haunts for an album to browse.
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after my father got “ lost” several states away, we had the police and his doctor notify the DMV to revoke his license. The police politely asked my father to hand me the car keys but dad refused the police. Then the police went behind his back and notified the DMV and finally had his license revoked. It took three months to happen. My fear was that if dad hurt someone or god forbid killed someone, and I being POA, I could be held responsible for not taking away his keys when I KNEW he should not be driving. My father was horribly difficult, and no way would he willingly stop driving ( although my mother said he was driving on wrong side of road one time)
dad passed two weeks before his license was revoked. But if I had to do it over again, I would have stood firmer, and no matter what it took, forbid his driving. I was stupid thinking it was convenient for me to let him keep driving to the pharmacy, etc.
sometimes you have to be the bad guy.
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doesn't sound like a good idea for him to drive, if he doesn't care about himself and at least care about others on the road
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You are doing the right thing, keep the car. Yes, loosing the independence of driving is horrifying to most seniors but it is NOT only his safety, but the safety of others! When a neurologist says it is time to give up driving, that is a huge red flag as many doctors will NOT say such things until it is absolutely very very apparent from a medical standpoint the senior is no long capable of handling driving safely.

Just last week in our community, a 80+ senior lost control of his car while pulling out of the townhouse parking lot area (only going about 5 miles per hour) but he lost control of the vehicle and sadly mowed down a father who was at the corner with his 7 year old son and 3 year old in a stroller; they were waiting for the school bus. The 7 year old was killed on the spot. In another incident on March 12th this year, in Washington DC -- just 20 mins away -- another 80+ senior lost control of his car (mistook the gas peddle for the break). He sped up so fast the car jumped the curb and landed at a outside restaurant on top of several tables filled with people having lunch outside. Two older women were killed instantly and several others critically injured: https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/women-73-76-ided-as-victims-after-suv-crashes-into-outdoor-dining-area-in-dc/2997560/

I cannot imagine what these families are going through; the death of a 7 year old child (father and 3-YO brother injured), the husbands/kids of the two older women killed just while having lunch together on a nice spring day, the others hurt critically OR the drivers themselves and THEIR families for NOT knowing when it is time to stop driving, when it is time to insist that elderly parents stop driving. Or time to have a physician make a report (they can do this) to local authorities.

Yes, it may be time for assistive living or nursing home care especially if dementia (sounds like it from your description) is party of the equation. And dementia or "mild cognitive impairment" if that is the case; may also be impacting his judgment to understand it is time to stop driving as well as it may be time for some type of senior living arrangement.

Just like your mom and dad had to do what was needed, do what was right for you you were growing up and to not be concerned with the fact that you might get mad at them; now the roles are switching. This is one of the hardest things to do, to "parent our parents" and accept they may become angry or downright hostile towards us. But you cannot let your fear of him being angry at you for YOU to NOT do what is required for him and OTHERS to be safe. Tell him, his doctor told you both it was time to stop driving and you both have to follow doctor's orders.

Perhaps volunteers (some areas have volunteer drivers for seniors), and a combo of Uber/Taxis if that exists where you are; can help.

Good luck. This is not an easy journey.
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Doctors Orders, sorry Dad, we must adhere to them.

Of course you are doing the right thing, he is getting behind the wheel of a 2 ton vessel and could easily kill himself or someone else.

Might be time for AL, he will not need a car there.
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Our mother was driving until her later 80s but then had two accidents and was diagnosed with vascular dementia. We were worried she would hurt herself or someone else next time. She would not give up the car so I called the provincial government, told them of our concerns, and they sent her a letter demanding that she get a doctor's letter or her license would be revoked. The doctor refused to sign and my brother took away her car.
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Yes you are doing the right thing. It’s for his safety and for the others he could potentially harm or kill. He’ll be angry but alive.
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Do not give the car back, for fear of a silver alert having to be issued… Heaven forbid he cause an accident that would harm him and or others.

When I place my mom she would have hit me physically if she could have mustard the strength. It’s terrible lie I had to tell her. She was convinced her car would be parked in the AL parking lot. If I had told her differently she would not have moved. She made a terrible scene.. so be it…
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Losing the ability to drive is very hard but needs to be done for the safety of your dad and others. My husband is 82 (20 years my senior) and the decision to not drive was after a minor accident. Yes, it’s been difficult for BOTH of us but necessary for both physical and financial security. It’s difficult. Best of luck to you.
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SAFETY. You love him dearly and wish to maintain his environment in as peaceful a way as possible.

But you are also aware that his abilities are diminishing day by day, and no one has a timetable for when things cross the line and cause larger problems for him or others in his surroundings.

When an elderly person with previous neurological problems “refuses”, WE as loving caregivers HAVE to opt for SAFETY FIRST.

As just one example of his need for more support, you mention that he has “uncontrolled diabetes”, and hasn’t been able to get the hang of managing his insulin. Since insulin management can have a major impact on emotional/cognitive performance, can you consider that he is doing himself NO FAVORS by refusing to play by your rules?

He’s depressed, and no reason why he shouldn’t be. But as heart wrenching as that is for you, you must step away from being “loving daughter” and take on the role of “objective life manager”.

And painful that WILL BE, but with love and concern you can both emerge as loving participants in his continuing life.

TODAY, look up ALs in your area and see if any seem appealing to you. When you have time, do a drive by.

This is a time when you’ll need to put aside your natural empathy, and need to develop a very objective strength.

Many of us have had to do that, and ultimately have done it.
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"I remind him of his health issues and reassure him that whenever he wants to go someplace, me or my husband will take him but he just wants his independence to go out when he wants. He lives in the middle of his town and could walk to many places (with his cane)... church, restaurants, pharmacy are within 1-3 blocks … but he can be unsteady at times and walking long distances can take a lot out of him. We already drive him to all his Dr appointments and bring him to our house for dinner when he’s feeling up to it. I am his POA. After many late fees, I handle his finances. I do his laundry, I fill his med box, he has a cleaning lady 2 times a month and we now have meals on wheels delivering lunch and dinner to him and are working on getting church volunteers to stop by his place to help with medication reminders. "

That's a lot that you do for him now, and you live 30 minutes away. Be careful about promising to take him wherever he wants, whenever he wants. It sounds like he really needs a more supportive living situation (and I do NOT mean moving in with you!).
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I don't know if you've already looked this up:

https://www.yelp.com/search?cflt=taxis&find_loc=Poughkeepsie%2C+NY

The "Best 10 Taxis" in your area, it claims.

If your father is among those people who look on taxis as an extravagance to equal caviar for breakfast and owning a racehorse, remind him that what he saves on fuel, car maintenance, insurance, parking fees etc etc will buy him an awful lot of cab rides - and indefinite independence without the worry and responsibility.

It's actually the getting lost on familiar routes that's the Big Red Flag. Sadly, it is sometimes followed by the driver reversing at speed into a brick wall and having absolutely no idea how that happened, either.
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Hello all. My first post after reading for some time and benefiting from your good advice. I am at the point of helping my father transition from independent living to AL. The transition has not been painless. Dad is nearing 90 and is deaf as a post. His hearing aid stays in a box in the counter. He should not be driving for the hearing factor alone but when the subject is broached his response ranges from "you could be right" to "how am I supposed to get anywhere?." We live in neighboring states and he's seriously considering choosing AL in his state so he can keep his drivers license and not be tested again. I hopefully planted two seeds by suggesting he be tested by the agency near us that provides drivers training and testing for the elderly and special needs populations. I also pointed out that he might consider an umbrella policy for his car insurance because if he makes a mistake and hurts someone he puts himself at risk for losing all he has worked for including money that will provide for his care in a lawsuit. For me it's more about him hurting someone else and himself but I know my audience. That one has him thinking. I'm hoping he will come to a conclusion on his own but it could go either way.
L
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"Doctor's orders, Dad. It's out of my hands.

"So, how was your day today?"

The less you discuss it, the better. Spend your brain cells on constructive things like researching senior transportation options.
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