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KT2930 Asked April 2023

Dementia dad's wife getting scammed twice in 1 week. Any advice?

My dad has dementia and lives with his wife of 13 years. We found out (not by dad or wife) that wife had given $75,000 to a scammer out of their investment account. She's blaming my dad saying he did it, but the investment firm said he never logged in and she did it (she is a narcissus and doesn't take responsibility for her actions. Only one of her many children have a relationship with her. We can't tell if she's a liar or has dementia). Then we found out, during the same week, she was taken by another scammer. To make a long story short, she blamed the 2nd scam on the investment counselor which he quickly corrected her on. They also received a large IRS refund last year. Neither one of them know if/when it was ever received. Also, several regular withdraws are coming out of their investment account and checking account. Neither one know what it is for. The banker asked my sis if dad had dementia (he kept asking the exact same question 4 times in a row). He gets mad if we ask any questions of the banker when trying to clarify. His wife has POA/MPOA and neither one of them will let us take over for him. He always says they have it handled. After coming back from the bank where we checked on their accounts, his wife was AGAIN talking to spammers! They live in a very nice independent living place and we are afraid she is going to give everything to the spammers. I know it's difficult to prove incompetence and she puts on a good dog and pony show. It's wearing my sister & I out and it's all we think/talk about. EXTREMELY stressing!! Trying to decide to keep at them for POA/MPOA (they both get mad) or just let it go and let them throw all their money away and end up in a Medicare nursing home.

MJ1929 Apr 2023
I'd file for conservatorship/guardianship for your dad only. If you manage to get it, clean out half their accounts for him, and leave her daughter to deal with her mom.

Obviously, consult with an attorney on this first, but there's no reason why your dad should go down with his wife's ship when she's clearly not competent either.

Anabanana Apr 2023
Our friend who was scammed soon started receiving online and phone contact from scammers offering quick ways to recoup his losses. All he had to do was send them money too, and they promised to help him FOR REAL unlike those mean scammers. We’re convinced this is just another step in the same scam but he has fallen for it again, certain these are good people who are going to help him replace the money he lost to bad people. They’ve also had several grandparent scam calls as well. Contact info of the vulnerable and gullible is sold and traded online. Can you sneak a look at their phone to block calls? It’s all so infuriating.

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Fawnby Apr 2023
Do you have a key to their house or can you get one? Having access might help you learn some things you need to know.

Also, they might be agreeable to naming you a trusted contact on their accounts. That doesn’t allow you access but allows their banks to contact you if they suspect fraud or anything amiss. Then you have a quiet conversation with the financial institutions about what’s going on and they’ll flag the accounts to contact you when dad and mom write a suspicious check.

In the case of a friend, the bank even called the police to come to the bank and explain to the elder that she was about to be scammed.
Missymiss Apr 2023
Yes. The bank manager gave me a lot of background info when I was there after mom was scammed. Mom herself suggested I be added to her account. And I had to override her objections to changing her phone number. It stopped the immediate harassment that was happening. What a nightmare.
MACinCT Apr 2023
This happened to my mom. If the scammers ore calling, then change the number ASAP to an unlisted number. This is only a temporary gap. No POA? Next file for conservatorship via elder law. It will cost them. You can deduct legal fees to their account. This can take about a month to do.

Scampers are getting more savvy. Someone in my HOA lost over a million.

Mountaingyrl Apr 2023
If they won't or can't realize that they are incapable of dealing with their finances, there is nothing you can do. Before I had POA for my mother, she continually gave money to scammers or dubious charities. She even "gifted" her brother $45K, which has never been repaid.

In our situation there was nothing we could do to try and recover the money. It has significantly impacted her future now that she is in a NH as she is running out of money. She will need to go on Medicaid which will mean moving into a double room. It will also limit her ability to buy the things she wants to make her life more comfortable. It is a terrible situation but nothing I can do about it as the damage has already been done.

If they won't allow you to manage their finances, there is nothing you can do. I think you should be honest with them about what will happen when they run out of funds. If they can't move in with you or you aren't prepared to financially support them, let them know now. It might not change their actions but at least it might help alleviate any guilt you could have once they are out of money.
KT2930 Apr 2023
Unfortunately, that's what I thought. Sad to see all his hard work and sacrifices go down the drain like this.
JoAnn29 Apr 2023
This has to be reported to the police and put on record. You may also want to tell Dad and his wife that u will not be bailing them out. If they loose all their investments, they are on their own.

And its Medicaid not Medicare. You must keep a record of these withdrawls. And report the fraud otherwise its considered a gift to Medicaid and there are penalties.
KT2930 Apr 2023
She went to police station and received a "claim" ticket. They wrote down basic info but she didn't receive a copy of police report. Police are supposed to follow up with her at a later date but I would be surprised if that happened. Not sure that fraud via phone to someone out of state is within their jurisdiction.
KT2930 Apr 2023
Oh, forgot to mention, scammer wanted $750 but she accidentally added 2 more zeros to make it $75K.

Fawnby Apr 2023
One of my LOs was scammed through social security. Benefits that were supposed to go directly into their bank account were somehow diverted by thieves who redirected it to another bank account in a faraway state. They used an address in yet another state. Somehow they'd managed to change my LO's social security info on the website. The thieves stole thousands of dollars over four or five months of this, which LO didn't detect until that much time had passed.

The moral of this story is that you should check their social security accounts and find out if this is happening to them. If it is, it needs to be reported in many places. The local police department told my LO that they cannot do anything, it happens a lot. That wasn't much help!

LO did get money back from SS. But they don't give any info about how the case is going or who did the crime. It took about two years to get this resolved. The bank to which the money had been redirected could not give any info. Stonewalling at every turn, and most people would probably have given up.
KT2930 Apr 2023
Thank you for the info, I did not think of that! We will check the bank, if we can. They won't let us see ANY of the transactions.
AlvaDeer Apr 2023
I would call APS at once. This is a bad situation.
Who is POA for the wife? Is there one?

This may be a case where immediate guardianship is needed. APS can help you get referred where you need to be.

If there is no solid diagnosis of incompetency here (and as RealyReal has said several times on forum, that is different that just dementia) you may not be ABLE to do anything, but it sure is time to find out. So sorry this is going on for you.
KT2930 Apr 2023
POA for wife is her daughter who will not talk to us. Wife said we are not allowed to have her phone number. Her daughter has relationship issues with people.
97yroldmom Apr 2023
This is a very difficult situation.
Go to a certified elder attorney well versed in Medicaid. You will need it in their future at the rate she is going through their assets.
Get your ducks in a row on what you will need to do going forward should you decide to gain guardianship for your dad. Even if his wife does not have cognitive decline, she is a poor steward for their future. Be very careful who you discuss this with until you know what you want to do and have gathered the evidence the attorney feels you need to be successful. I’m glad your sister is helping you.
It would be easier to walk away but most of us can’t do that or at least not until we are bloodied and bruised.
You may need more proof than what you have now.
Should one of them have a health event, you want to be ready to take action. that’s usually the best time to make significant progress. The law is on their side as it stands today. They have the right to throw their money away. You have to show they aren’t able to manage on their own and even then it will be hard is my understanding.
Sometimes an emergency guardianship can be granted.
So sorry you have this to deal with.
KT2930 Apr 2023
Thank you. They BOTH had health events last year; dad in SNL (his wife decided he didn't need a certain medicine & it put him in the hospital and then SNL) and wife had COVID (they are both near 90 yrs old). He STILL refused to give us MPOA/POA. He wants HER to take care of everything and she wants complete control. Wife told my sister she was the most horrible person ever because we got him home health care and took care of getting his housing ready for him with modifications. She makes fun of us for wanting best possible care for him and having weekly meetings with his SN team so he could go home. She said she felt like she was losing control.

I spoke to a very good elder law attorney. He said it would be at least $20K to gain guardianship. That's a sticky situation with her living there and a LOT of money that I'm not sure any of us are willing to fork out since we are all retired.
ZippyZee Apr 2023
Would they even qualify for Mediciad if they’re gifting so much money?
KT2930 Apr 2023
Good question. I'm assuming that since they filed a police report (for the $75K) that it would be considered theft instead of "gifting"?? And going forward for any more scam issues, if they file a police report, again theft instead of "gifting"? Still trying to decide whether to KEEP stressing out about changing POA or just move on and let them suffer the consequences.

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