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Babs75 Asked February 2021

Moving dad from skilled nursing to memory care. Has anyone dealt with this guardianship issue?

My 94 year old dad has been in skilled nursing since last spring. He went there from assisted living due to some health issues. I am his legal guardian. I have been looking off and on for a memory care that will take him. All parties concerned agree he is ready for a move as he is really bored in skilled nursing. His facility has been awesome helping me with the screening process. We think we have found a good fit for him but I am told by the guardianship attorney that I need court approval to move him. This could take some time and I am afraid we will lose the spot. She said this is more of a formality, giving him a chance to contest but he doesnt even have an attorney anymore. He has severe dementia and he really doesn't even need to see the paperwork because he wouldn't understand. Has anyone else dealt with the guardianship thing and moving someone?

bicycler Feb 2021
Babs 75, thank you for providing the relevant section of Oregon's law, ORS 125.320¹ Limitations on Guardian, which made me appreciate Idaho's more lenient law, i.e. by default Idaho guardians are able to move their wards and otherwise make all decisions in their best interests unless the court order specifically limits decision-making authority. 

However, even with Oregon's more restrictive guardianship authority, I think ORS 125.320 (3) (b) (B) might give you sufficient authority to move your dad immediately, without 15 days notice, especially if his skilled nursing staff will vouch that they helped you screen the memory care facility and that facility's staff will vouch that your dad might lose his spot if his move is delayed. If both facilities will vouch that your dad's immediate welfare will be improved by moving to the new facility, I doubt that the court will object to you providing less than 15 days notice, even up to two days after the move. 

But my advice comes with two caveats: 1) I'm not an attorney and I'm not qualified to give legal advice, and 2) if you have siblings who might have objections (reasonable or not), or if your dad has a spouse who might object, then you'll probably want to be cautious in moving your dad, which doesn't necessarily mean that paragraph (3) (b) (B) can't be used, just that you should be careful in doing so. 

Best wishes, again.
Babs75 Feb 2021
Lol...No problem with my 3 siblings. They've been pretty much hands off for years. My sister admitted to me that none of them wanted to take this on. I've been responsible for his care for 6 years, guardian for 2-1/2. Heck, one of my brothers hasn't gone to see my dad for 1-1/2 years and he lives here in town.
Windyridge Feb 2021
I went through the the same thing with my dad. I had just been awarded guardianship Conservatorship. Then mom died, dad broke a hip and was in rehab three states away.

I called my attorney, told him that I needed to move dad near me, I couldn’t make the 12 hour drive any longer. He started things in motion but I didn’t wait. My wife and I made the drive , picked dad up when he was released from rehab and brought him home to,our state, checked him in in a nice nursing home 5 miles away.

I actually had a court hearing on the phone with the judge during the trip. He was pleased that I was looking out for my dads welfare. I got the legal approval papers in the mail about a week later.

I don’t intent this as legal advice, just my own experience.

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bicycler Feb 2021
Babs75, as Geaton777 said, guardianship laws vary from state to state, but I'm still a little surprised that your attorney says you need the court's approval before you can move your dad. My wife and I have been legal guardians of three people, albeit all in Idaho. That said, our experience is that we didn't need court approval to move our "wards," instead we could, and did, just move them based on what we thought was best for them and then simply told the courts about the moves in our annual guardianship reports -- the courts never had a problem with what we did.

If you haven't done so already, read your guardianship papers again to verify the accuracy of what your attorney has told you. We found that some guardianship attorneys are better than others and there are some that we wouldn't use again. And, as Igloo572 suggested, you might want to call the court for advice, as someone there might recognize the absurdity of needing to give your dad "opportunity to contest," and thus might be willing and able to give you some guidance to simplify this process that is already inherently difficult.

As an aside, regarding the court being slow in "approving" the conservatorship report you filed last November, our experience in Idaho was that the courts never told us when they approved our reports -- instead, we were always left assuming that they would let us know if they found a problem with a report.

Kudos to you for being willing to tackle the responsibilities of being your dad's guardian and conservator. Best wishes for you and your dad on this journey.
Babs75 Feb 2021
(3)
(a) Before a guardian may change the abode of an adult protected person or place an adult protected person in a mental health treatment facility, a nursing home or other residential facility, the guardian must file with the court and serve a statement declaring that the guardian intends to make the change of abode or placement in the manner set forth in paragraph (b) of this subsection.
(b)
(A) The statement must be filed and served in the manner provided for serving a motion under ORS 125.065 (Manner of giving notice) to the persons specified in ORS 125.060 (Who must be given notice) (3) and (8) at least 15 days prior to each change of abode or placement of the protected person.
(B)
When the guardian determines that the change of abode or placement must occur in less than 15 days to protect the immediate health, welfare or safety of the protected person or others, the statement shall declare that the change of abode or placement must occur in less than 15 days to protect the immediate health, welfare or safety of the protected person or others. The statement must be filed and served with as much advance notice as possible, in no event later than two judicial days after the change of abode or placement occurs. The guardian may make the change of abode or placement prior to a hearing on any objection.
(c)
In addition to the requirements of ORS 125.070 (Contents of notice) (1), the notice given to the protected person must clearly indicate the manner in which the protected person may object to the proposed placement.
(d)
The court shall schedule a hearing on any objection to a statement filed under this subsection made in the manner provided by ORS 125.075 (Presentation of objections) for presenting objections to a petition or motion in a protective proceeding. If no objection is made, the guardian may change the abode of the adult protected person or place the adult protected person in a mental health treatment facility, a nursing home or other residential facility without further court order.
Grandma1954 Feb 2021
Was there a Court appointed guardian ad litem assigned? If so you could contact him/her and state that this is a time sensitive situation. The other option did you use a lawyer for the Guardianship? If so you should contact their office
Babs75 Feb 2021
Yes, I am working through my guardianship attorney. They said I have to have court approval before I can move him but there is not time to do that. If I want to pay for both skilled nursing AND memory care, I could accommodate that but we can't afford it.
igloo572 Feb 2021
Call probate court that did the guardianship ruling and ask to speak with the staff atty for the court as to if you as the court appointed guardian need to file a document to get an new Order signed by the judge allowing him be moved. Or do it as an email & include. Copy of the guardianship as an attachment and yiur ID or state drivers license.

Being named guardian is kinda like being named Executor, they both have quite a lot of power to you done by the judge as signed in the Order (guardianship) or Letters Testamentary (for Executor).

Im kinda surprise atty who did guardianship for you initially isn’t just taking care of this for you. Atty costs for guardianship isn’t cheap, he make $ from it. Any reason why this atty isn’t stepping up to do this?

Also is the MC requiring this document from you? If not, and both the medical director of the Nh and of the MC both agree that his move to MC is consistent with the level of care needed, that should be what the decision is based on imho. I’d try to get a state,not from each as to this, just more of a CYA for you to show you did your due diligence.
Babs75 Feb 2021
The attorney has said that they need to file an Intent to Place with the court to show that I want to move him and where I want to move him to. I haven't given her a location yet because I haven't made any deposit but I suspect I will get roped into paying the first month. Dad will be sent paperwork giving him an opportunity to contest which, with severe dementia and no lawyer anymore, he will be unable to do and in the meantime, we might lose the spot we have selected depending on how long the court takes. (i.e. we submitted my conservatorship from last year the first of November in 2020 - they have yet to approve it. Behind schedule, I guess) All parties involved agree this move will be good for him it's the court we have to please. Seems like a backwards process especially for someone so old.
Geaton777 Feb 2021
When my stepFIL with Parkinsons was a ward of the county they first "informed" us, the family, about where they intended to move him but it was over 30 minutes away. It needed to be within a short drive so we could get his wheelchair-bound wife there for visits easily, and we discussed this with them and they accommodated us. I personally can't imagine that your dad with diagnosed dementia would be asked to "approve" of anything, but guardianship laws probably vary from state to state. Just communicate with the guardian to make your preferences known so they don't put him far from you, if this is a concern. If he's not on Medicaid this will be less of a potential problem.

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