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Lisarox Asked October 2019

MIL lives in our rental costing us rental income and out of pocket expenses. What do I do?

My mother in law has lived in our rental along with a female roommate and her 80 year old brother. She lost her home 8 years ago and asked to move into our rental when my husband (then boyfriend) moved out. She has mobility issues due to an excessive amount of surgeries (she doctor shops) My husband is an only child and has a very strained relationship with her. She hoards items and fights non stop with her brother. She just recently crashed her car into the rentals garage. I have finally given her a list of questions after asking the last 2 years verbally where her documents are at, who is in charge of her medical or financial decisions, what is the plan for her if she needs to go the a AL facility and how would it be paid for etc. She has since passed the 3 month deadline I gave her to answer these questions. It doesn't help that she can't stand me but yet I am the one who has to step in to do things, such as organizing her hoard of items. She recently indicated to me her friend who also runs AL facilities will make her medical decisions. I then stated we need it in writing and to talk to her friend to ensure this is indeed the plan. She was very defensive and feels that her "telling" us who is in charge is good enough. I have taken her brother under my wing and started the process of researching VA assisted living facilities for "just in case." Uncle Bob has fallen and had to be hospitalized for 2 days this year. My MIL is pushing for him to going into a AL because she can't care for him if he falls and he shouldn't be driving...yet she has the same issues and in fact she is more infirm than him. What do I do?

Lisarox Nov 2019
Update 11/14/19:
Super proud husband moment. He went over a few days ago to discuss our questions. MIL STILL does not feel we need to know her "business." Well inevitably the holidays came up. I pretty much told husband that I am done with the whole sh*t show. I used to like to cook, play games and hang out. It has been extremely uncomfortable for me and seems to be getting worse. I told hubby that I am not cooking a meal for MIL, Uncle and her entourage again to have them not show up or rush me because they have other events to attend that day (true story!). I refuse to buy her more than 2 gifts because it is never good enough or equal to what she buys us. We personally believe that as adults 52, 45, 74 and 83 years old we should not be expected to site around in a circle opening lots of presents in a rotation feeding the narcissistic attention Beast aka MIL.

Husband told MIL "since you cannot/will not formulate a future plan with us we are not doing the holidays this year...period." We shall see how this unfolds. I told hubby to get ready for a possible medical emergency/crisis because this is what they both do when they want attention. TBH it would probably be a blessing because I can then refer them to a social worker and wash my hands of the responsibility. I swear it's like dealing with 74 and 83 year old surly teenagers. So yes, we cancelled Thanksgiving and Christmas. :(
Isthisrealyreal Nov 2019
Only with them.

Make a new tradition for you and hubs.

We started doing our own thing 20+ years ago because of family drama and we don't ever regret that decision.

I told everyone that asked about gift exchange that they should fill a needy families cupboards if they felt like they really had to buy us something. We would be donating the Christmas funds to the needy in our city. Whew! It was not pretty the 1st few years, but they all eventually figured out that we don't do the holidays.

Have a truly happy Thanksgiving and turn your phones off. 911 works 365.
Isthisrealyreal Nov 2019
Lisarox, have you set the rental up as an LLC? If not you should talk to an attorney about what kind of liability you could be facing. Also, an LLC will allow the loss to be tax deductible and not classified as personal use.

You may have to take her to court to do an eviction. My husband's grandmother was living in one of our homes and brought his deadbeat sister's kids into the home. We were paying almost double the price of the mortgage on utilities and they wouldn't stop or pay. It sucked but we couldn't continue to pay thousands of dollars a month for them.

Best of luck, because these situations just stink.
Lisarox Nov 2019
No it is not a LLC. We are still paying on the house payment.

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NeedHelpWithMom Nov 2019
Lisa,

You tried. You did all that you could. I’d feel the same as you.

Hugs!

Lisarox Nov 2019
Update: Uncle flaked on going to VA called me at 5am to say he did not feel well and have I seen about the fires up North? I said Ok we will reschedule. Popped in later around 9:30 AM (the time we where supposed to leave to the VA) and he was showered and ready to go have breakfast at his local spot >:(

I'm officially "OVER IT!" I will let the cards fall where they may and let my husband deal with all the inevitable fall out.

Signed,
I am SO done

NeedHelpWithMom Oct 2019
Lisa,

Things can become such a mess, can’t they? It truly effects everyone involved. You sound like a very sensible woman to me and have an objective view.

Oh boy, your description sounds like how mom was in my home. They want everything exactly as they want it and it does become petty and ridiculous.

I think you are doing your very best to get life back on a healthy track for everyone. Best wishes to you and your family.

I haven’t been to San Francisco in ages. I like Pacific Grove, Monterey, Big Sur, well that entire coastline is gorgeous.

Last trip to California was San Diego area and LA.

Geeeez, seems like a bazillion years ago. I wasn’t able to travel with mom living here. I adore California. You have the best weather! The ocean is breathtaking. Everything grows there. Flowers everywhere. So beautiful!

NeedHelpWithMom Oct 2019
Lisa,

I respect that your husband doesn’t like conflict. Truly I do. I am married to a very laid black, chill kind of guy. He’s very logical, rational, black and white type of thinker, can sometimes be an anal engineer! Hahaha

I appreciate his brilliant mind and solving technical issues but real life is equally important. Trust me, I know where you’re coming from. Conflicts arise in all marriages.

Please do not allow this to continue. You’re smart. You know that. You know that by allowing them to live in your rental it is costing you and I don’t just mean financially. Of course finances are important but all of life is important.

I wasn’t so smart in the past and against my judgment I allowed my mom to continue to live with me. Started out the same as you. She needed a place and I wanted to help. Truly I did. She lost her home in Katrina. I had no idea it would become so difficult. It didn’t end well. My siblings kept criticizing while doing nothing to help me. Mom pitted us against each other. I ended up telling her to go live with my brother until she is placed somewhere. She’s almost 94. It breaks my heart. I’m 64 on Monday.

Look, don’t feel badly or apologize for how you feel. You are right! This living arrangement is not working out and you know it, your husband knows it too. Make a plan and put it into action. I wish you well. Take care. Many hugs.

San Francisco is lovely but it’s very costly to live there!

This is your husband’s responsibility. Support him. Tell him that you understand that it isn’t pleasant to deal with any of this but it has to be done.
Lisarox Oct 2019
Thank you for your very compassionate response :) I am actually looking forward to spending the day with Uncle B touring the VA facility this Thursday. I think he is absolutely fed up with all the drama as well.

The latest complaints from her are 1. laundry situation...Uncle uses laundry room randomly and her other much younger roommate needs the laundry on her days off. My answer was to create a template for them to fill in designating laundry days. She is now complaining about that. 2. Refrigerator space, we brought over a nice size mini fridge for Uncles room, she now complains it uses more electricity. 3. I told Uncle he should help with 1/3 of utilities since he now lives there full time...he agrees. She complains that her roommate shouldn't pay those bills since roommate doesn't make a lot of money and buys all common household items like paper goods, cleaning supplies etc. I told uncle he needs to help with these items as well. He agrees and is wanting too. (the list of BS goes on and on..lol)

This is the type of petty behavior we deal with and hear about all the time. She is angling to have him in a facility but our concerns are that we will not just be $200 plus dollars in the red a month but now his portion of $625. ugh! IRS is going to be looking at us according to our CPA because this "rental" is in the red and will be classified as personal use now. Goodbye tax write offs.

Its like dealing with a self centered teenager....her entitlement is breathtaking. I grew up in foster care and have always depended and taken care on myself. So these "family dynamics" are VERY foreign to me. I was a single mom with no child support for 8 years in CA no less. No, I have no college degree but I worked multiple jobs to support my children (full time bookkeeper, cleaned houses and did elder care to supplement regular income) I have 3 children 27, 23 and 16. All of them are very self sufficient hard workers. My 27 year old is out of the Navy (Medic/Corpsman) now and working on furthering his medical certifications. My 23 is a senior in college on a full wrestling scholarship and maintains a 4.0 along with applying to law schools. My 16 year old daughter is a great kid who is a go getter...also a 4.0 student and very gifted multi sport athlete and musician. Yes, I am proud :) So this is the background/ethic We/ I come from. My Husband has been working since he was a little boy.

My MIL had a slip and fall in her late forties and has not worked since then. She is on permanent disability and has upwards of 15+ surgeries. She is on heavy pain meds....oxycontin, Norco etc. I suspect she has Munchausens. She doctor shops and now travels 100 miles either direction to get what she wants from doctors. It's getting to the point where I am thinking its her or me >;(
If MIL names her "friend" as medical and financial designee our hands are tied. We would probably have to sell the house to get her out. This house should be renting almost $1000 more a month than it is. We cannot afford to do any upgrades....so when she does finally move out we will have take a loan out to upgrade it. Thanks for listening again y'all. Just venting now....I think I will start a journal to unload in from here on out....lol
JoAnn29 Oct 2019
They all should be paying enough each to make the Mortgage payment. I doubt if the Uncle can afford an AL and if he can, he should have been paying a bigger share.

Without having a POA for both of them, your hands are sort of tied. Anything they do has to be voluntary.
Lisarox Oct 2019
Uncle is retired military. I am taking him next Thur to tour the VA facility near us. He is becoming incontinent and refuses to wear Depends. I think I have uncle on board to consider AL. We will get on the waiting list which is 1-2 years. My MIL is a narcissist and plays the victim card...I refuse to play. My husband and I spoke about this situation again last night. He is thanking me profusely for dealing with his mother. On one hand I feel like a ogre...but on the other she has been taking advantage for way to long. I could go on and on about the crap she pulls....sigh. Fingers crossed she has some answers for us by the 1st week of November...which is the deadline I have now given her. Thanks again, Guys :)
BarbBrooklyn Oct 2019
Step out. Let your husband deal with this. Stop organizing her hoard.

Let the chips fall where they may. Next time she is hospitalized, tell SW that she lives alone and is unsafe.

NeedHelpWithMom Oct 2019
You gave her a time frame and it’s up so now you have to make some decisions. Why is her son not dealing with this? Or is he? You say that you have stepped in. Can you step out with her and address it with her husband and ask him to resolve this situation? It’s his mom.
Lisarox Oct 2019
I totally agree with this however, my husband has a hard time with conflict. He knows how difficult she can be. I am trying to look at our retirement savings. I'm 46 and my husband is 51. We are self employed and the rental was supposed to be our rental income property :( (We live in the SF Bay Area by the way...super expensive ) I just spoke with the VA in Yountville and have a appointment to tour the facility next Thurs with her brother/room mate. She has another roommate who is a much younger friend that helps her out a lot. This roommate works during the day though. After I posted this I spoke with her again. This time I was more firm and pointed out she has been more of our responsibility since she moved into our rental whether she thinks so or not. Honestly the ONLY time my husband and I disagree is about his mom. I guess I am venting more than anything else lol Thank you for your responses. I told my husband she is his responsibility and I will handle his uncle. (who can be also very difficult) I told my MIL if her brother moves out we are not allowing her to sublet his room and we are not taking on another roommate situation. It's a huge pain to collect from 3 individuals an amount that doesn't even cover the house payment. Thanks guys for listening

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