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VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
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My experience with LTC has been good but we were lucky. My otherwise uninvolved sister bought my moms policy through her work in 1995 I believe. Unum is the carrier. Because she purchased it through her employer we got the group rate which was $160/month. The premium never went up. It included an inflation provision so the amount it paid out increased every month while the premium remained the same. In 2014 my mother needed to move to AL due to dementia. All that was required was a doctors evaluation and she was approved. There was a three month elimination period (awful term) during which I was responsible for the premium. This money was not reimbursed. The policy now pays $108 dollars per day. My mom had a shared room in the focused care/memory unit of a great AL not far from my home. The cost is $3775 per month and includes everything; meals, laundry, cable, basic health care, etc. her social security check more than covers what the policy doesn't pay. And now that she's on claim I no longer have to pay the premium. Her policy caps out at $385,000. She is 89 so this should be sufficient. Unfortunately these policies don't really exist anymore. Now they are much more expensive, the premiums can go up at a moments notice, and they have a 3 -4 year cap. Buyer beware!
I will be covering this topic on the KCSO Money Talks program in the end of July. In general, my adviser recommends that you buy LTC insurance between ages 55 and 60. Because I don't believe I'm a high risk for needing LTC insurance (I have no existing conditions, and longevity runs in my family), I purchased a new policy for life insurance with a LTC rider - if you don't use one, you use the other. This made more sense for me. The down side is that there is no inflation coverage. It will cover a maximum of $250 per day regardless of what year I need the care.
Danamovedon: that was a very interesting article in the Wall Street Jounal that you referenced... "Long term health insurance is it worth it?" I Googled the title and it was the third selection. It covers a lot of viable options without settling for just paying ever rising insurance premiums. Your right about insurance companies being in it for the money, but what is so difficult is getting them to pay. So what if Glenworth pays the premiums you spent to your kids if you don't use it; especially if have live on cat food to pay for it in your declining years.
Patience56, I'm no expert but I think I'd start with a Senior Resource Information line to see if I can get the assistance of a social worker to help you help your brother. They have a good idea of resources available and can sometimes run interference on getting assistance. But if he has dementia to the extent that he can't go to the bathroom, he needs a family member involved to help protect his assets. With home care assistance, you pay more for medical assistance (to dispense medication) than with personal care (bathroom) or companion care. Are there family members who can help out to minimize the cost? You don't indicate how much assistance he employs, but full time can become very expensive and I wonder if he would be better off in assisted living. The way his living situation is set up, he might be vulnerable to losing his home. Perhaps someone who has been in this situation can offer a better perspective.
This has been an interesting discussion to follow. I have to think LTC insurance is about to change significantly, if it hasn't already, due to the baby boomers hitting the 65 year mark and the increasing news about the Alzheimer's tsunami. Also the fallout of Obamacare; i.e.; the concept of not being denied/penalized for existing conditions. Insurance companies are in the business to make money, not to take care of clients. Don't think we can count on Medicaid; maybe not even Medicare. I also don't think there will be enough health care aids/doctors to cover everyone's needs in the next 20 years. I think your best bet is to stay healthy, find a family member you can rely on to take care of you/advocate for you as long as possible, and pray the medical community develops better solutions. I have been warned you need to read the fine print and understand what you are buying with LTC.
Sorry I think I misspoke. My Dad was not at home. In that case I guess he would've had to be evaluated. His Alzheimer's was so advanced it would've been very hard to take care of him at home. In addition, the policy he had only paid for a nursing home, not in home care or assisted living.
My Dad had insurance through Genworth for 4 years and a nurse never evaluated him except maybe initially but I don't think then. Once a year on the anniversary the nursing home had to re-submit paperwork. That was it.
Yes, the patient will be assessed by a nurse hired by the insurance company once and sometimes twice a year. My mom had lengthy assessments that lasted for an hour and a half. This was exhausting and left her in tears. The nurse's job is to see if for any reason she no longer qualifies to receive the insurance she paid for for 30 years. Try to make sure you are in the room. The nurse is being paid by the insurance company and I listened to her try to fudge my mom's abilities to be greater than they were.
Very good, I have a question While in the waiting period with a well documented Dx of Alzheimer and Chronic ataxia, do we have to prove of loss, every year when we submit bills for personal and home care? It request sound ridiculous.
Yes if you already have Alzheimer's you will not be able to purchase any LTC insurance--that is why this article, and standard advice is, buy LTC when you are 45-55. The cost is very low--a Catholic school teacher should be able to buy best - quality LTC covg thru your local Knights of Columbus, at age 50 in average health (no ALZ, no Aids, no recent cancer or smoking ) for a mere $2,000 per year (approximately).
I was told that if the person already has Alzheimer's, they are disqualified from buying insurance. It is very expensive. As a Catholic School teacher , I could not afford it!
Exactly -- My Dad lived in a NH with Alz for 5 years and 7 years at home before that. Fortunately he was able to get a long term policy thru Genworth in 1997 when he was 68 for less than $100 a month. He paid in for 10 years but then all total they paid out $120,000. This preserved a lot of his funds. They were also were easy to work with.
LauraB asks "Malorie: Average time in an ALF/nursing home is 2-3 years. If over 50% never use it, would you make another choice?" If I never use my LTC benefits, all of my premiums are paid out to my beneficiaries. I lose NOTHING. As far as other people who never use it, it matters not if it is 50% or not.....what matters is the contract they sign on the dotted line---my policy will refund to my beneficiaries, which is a very good deal. OTOH, since you mentioned you're self-funding your possible 2-3 year stay in a nursing home, what happens if your self fund is not large enough, and what happens if your stay is 8-12 years?
Well, yes, a certain percentage of policies will not "pay out" because the buyer dies, or the buyer defaults on their payments. Is this a reason to not buy LTC insurance? It's definitely a choice to buy it or not (unlike Obamacare) but it's also an opportunity for each individual to have more choices in their senior years, should the need arise to be having in-home care, Asst Living, or Nursing home care. If you want to try and save up $1,000,000 just to pay 10 years of nursing home care, yes that is your option. But most people of modest means would rather buy LTC insurance for only $2,500/year. Choices are important---and we each have to understand what we are buying in a policy. Don't buy any LTC that you believe is not a good deal for you. I am very happy to have bought mine (about $2500/year for only 20 yrs and I have lifetime unlimited benefits, 5% COLA per year). The fact that a certain percentage never use their benefits, matters not to me.
I forgot add that they have to be in the ALF anywhere from 20-90 days before they even start paying the insurance and that's only if the facility qualifies! If go into the hospital and then typical rehab you'll be paying for the room at the ALF for months before the insurance kicks in again. Bottom line, they put off payments hoping the insured will die before they pay out the full amount.
Gladimhere: Exactly! It takes a pile of paperwork to get them to pay the relatively small amount my mom is getting. There are lots of rules that delay payment, they don't pay if you are hospitalized or in rehab, but you will have to pay to keep the place in the ALF. They send a nurse around every year to give Alzheimer victim a lengthy, tiring, and humiliating test to see if they have recovered from Alzheimer's! My mom can't talk anymore so maybe it will stop. The insurance money will run out this year (2 years of use) and she will be using her SS, pension, and help from my brother and me. This was expensive insurance that she almost lost due to her Demenia. It was pure luck that I found it! This was a MetLife policy. I am self insuring myself.
Laura, I have asked the question as well. Many times. I do not know if there are stats on lapsing of the policies. That would be very revealing for sure and I don't think the insurance industry would want them documented or publicized.
P.s. Laura, if I die b4 using my benefits my premiums paid go to my beneficiaries. Pretty sweet deal! Plus, I can now RELAX and breathe easy knowing my family will not have to change their lives just to afford the care I might need some day.
The answer remains, if you do your homework and buy a policy or contract with a AAA+ Rated organization, and pay your premiums, you will have coverage when you need it. If you fail to pay, then of course you've failed to uphold your end of the Contract and by breach you will forfeit. If the entire country is in historic upheaval then that might be a situation where the AAA+ companies will default on their Contract.
The question remains, what is the percentage of people who pay and never collect due to a variety of reasons (forgot to keep payments up, could no longer afford payments, died before using long term care, etc.)
You can check at your states insurance web site to see which insurance companies have raised rates and by how much. The better companies -- Mass Mutual, NY Life, and Northwestern never raised rates. The best way to really deal with it is to put the money in an immediate annuity so it pays the premium every year as long as it doesn't change. Set the annuity so that what isn't paid out is going to your heirs. Here's the deal with any insurance-- if you don't use it you basically wasted you're money. If you use it, you've made all your premiums back and I whole lot more. One of the nice things the company gives you is a care manager who will help with finding care, and with the paperwork. Think of the health insurance all those years of paying premiums, then a cancer diagnosis. Health insurance looks really cheap when those bills start coming in.
I wonder how many are actually used and how many have dropped it because the growing payments! According to USATODAY-Money article, in the last 3-5 years the LTH insurance payments have grown 30 to 50 percent. Keep in mind these payments are being made by retirees for many years. Some of these posts sound like insurance agents.,, maybe they can tell us,
I have often wondered the percent of policies that are actually used. How many lapse vs how many die before using. Can you really designate beneficiaries on these policies if someone dies first? Or does that vary based on the policy?
Gee whiz, I guess one needs an insurance policy to cover damages if someone forgot to pay their policy.....hm, maybe your bank could cut a check? I don't know, all I can think is to put a big neon reminder sheet in with my receipts for when I do taxes every year. But if I became incapacitated it's dependent on my poa to make SURE the policy is paid. But the good thing is, most LTC policies don't need to be paid once you start using the benefits (check the individual policy to be sure).
And there are problems with identifying another person to notify in case of non-payment. It happened here, poa sis was notified, did not realize mom was in early stages of dementia so ignored the notification. And yes, the policy lapsed. Make sure that person knows how strongly you feel about having this policy remain in force! Perhaps give that person complete control of the policy. Or setup a separate account where it is automatically deducted each year. What other ideas do any of you have?
Yes very important to stay current on paying your LTC premiums. I pay mine around the same time I do my taxes. And it is set up in a folder with all my important paperwork, so my POA can easily take over. Also my LTC carrier has sent out a letter to ask specifically for another person to contact in case the premium is not receive, to protect against lapsed (canceled) policies.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
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At What Age Should You Buy Long-Term Care Insurance?
Thank you,
A. Lewandowski
While in the waiting period with a well documented Dx of Alzheimer and Chronic ataxia, do we have to prove of loss, every year when we submit bills for personal and home care? It request sound ridiculous.
If I never use my LTC benefits, all of my premiums are paid out to my beneficiaries. I lose NOTHING. As far as other people who never use it, it matters not if it is 50% or not.....what matters is the contract they sign on the dotted line---my policy will refund to my beneficiaries, which is a very good deal. OTOH, since you mentioned you're self-funding your possible 2-3 year stay in a nursing home, what happens if your self fund is not large enough, and what happens if your stay is 8-12 years?
Is this a reason to not buy LTC insurance?
It's definitely a choice to buy it or not (unlike Obamacare) but it's also an opportunity for each individual to have more choices in their senior years, should the need arise to be having in-home care, Asst Living, or Nursing home care.
If you want to try and save up $1,000,000 just to pay 10 years of nursing home care, yes that is your option. But most people of modest means would rather buy LTC insurance for only $2,500/year.
Choices are important---and we each have to understand what we are buying in a policy. Don't buy any LTC that you believe is not a good deal for you. I am very happy to have bought mine (about $2500/year for only 20 yrs and I have lifetime unlimited benefits, 5% COLA per year). The fact that a certain percentage never use their benefits, matters not to me.