All of you children/care givers can help us face that decision by offering to take us to the store to pick up the few things we might need...or just 'window shop' once in a while. That's what I love to do
I'm 74 now and having problems walking. I love to drive BUT, I'm becoming more and more aware of making that decision. I love being able to just be independent. And getting someone to take me to the store is hard. I think I'm ready to give in.
I'm still struggling with this. My father is coming closer and closer to the inevitable. I know that not being able to drive will break his heart. I guess we all stand in this spot. So sad.
God bless you! Believe me, I totally get it. They're your parents, and you want them to be happy. Getting old is hard enough, with all the constant losses, and now it's independence. He's not mad at you; he's frustrated and angry in general.
Your willingness to hang in there, doing what's best for your parents, even though it's REALLY difficult, tells me how much you love them. They raised a responsible, caring, thoughtful person.
Please let us know how it goes, and stay strong. You're a wonderful example for the other people who will find this while struggling with the same problem.
Thank you TheirDaughter for your response. I didn't realise this thread has been here so many years, but it sure helped me today!! I know this is going to be hard and I'd rather be disowned and mad at, then trying to pick up the pieces if the worst were to happen. I know I've caused a lot of stress, and hate doing so for them d86/m82. It is going to take a type of emotional disconnect on my part to follow through, I'm going to give him another day or two to think of what transpired. It is a pride thing and a great fear and loss, I get that , but my fear is not, unwarranted, like he wants to thinks it is. It's sad, it is hard, but I know it is the best for all concerned.
Disowned, please hang in there. If you've read thru the posts here, you know how I feel. Your dad is being manipulative, so he's actually forcing you into not being completely honest with him. I get that it's a big loss for him, and I can understand his anger (which he's taking out on you). But as I keep trying to drive home (pun not intended!), we are talking about his safety AND the safety of others. He either can't or is unwilling to understand that, so it's obvious that you or another family member needs to step in. Unless he has to take the actual driving test, don't count on him not being able to renew his license. My mom was in her late 80s and obviously unfit to drive, but all she needed to do was pass the written and eye exam (and she did) to renew her license for another SIX years!!
Know you are doing the right thing, whatever it takes, to keep him off the highways. My mom was very upset when I talked to her, but eventually she was fine. You can get thru this.
So thankful, I found this thread! I just went through trying to "have" the conversation that my father is becoming more of a danger while driving. Bottom line, he disowned me right there and then. I have been caregiver for 7 years, since my mom had a stroke. Well I walked away . Feel ashamed yet can no longer ignore this situation. If I'm not there he will not leave mom alone, so he has been limited on driving (for now) Oh, what to do, my mind and heart are saying two different things. I don't want to be sneaky, I want to be up front and honest , and talk it out civil like. Yet, I see that is no longer an option.
Thank YOU Renuby60!!! And great idea! I keep thinking I'm going to stop getting notifications on this topic because I get so frustrated by the idiotic excuses people come up with for continuing to allow their obviously unfit relatives to drive! You made my day. Thank you!!
My father is 94, had a stroke 3 years ago, broke his pelvis 6 months ago, and is now on a walker full time. Both his doctors have told him he should never drive again, but he insists that he's still a wonderful driver. (Yes, his cognition has slipped a lot!) We have kept his car from him since his broken pelvis, and he just made an appointment for himself to get another actual driving test in two weeks. I read on a blog recently of a man whose dad was in a similar spot, and the family created a fake letter supposedly from the DMV, telling his dad that in order to take another driving test, he had to bring a letter from his doctor stating he is still safe to drive. His dad cancelled his DMV appointment, and gave up his keys. This is what I'm going to do today. If my dad still goes to take his driving test, and happens to pass (!), we are still not going to let him drive! We just CANNOT take the chance that he hurts himself, innocent pedestrians or drivers, or jeopardizes his hard-earned estate!
I think if I am approached about giving up my keys, I would want to take a test drive with someone who gives driving tests. If that person recommended it, I'd do it.
My dad, a retired professional tractor-trailer driver with an impressive command of his skills, always said that he would give up the keys when necessary at some point in the future. I gave him major props for that at the time.
The difficulty arose when he began getting lost on the road in the last 2 years of his life, but insisted there was no problem. Though he was able to handle physically maneuvering the car, his increasing short-term memory issues (due to the advent of Alzheimer's type dementia) contributed to this.
Even his neurologist's recommendation to stop driving fell on deaf ears. It was only losing his car in an accident (that he caused) mere months before he passed that finally ended those driving privileges.
He remained passionate about getting another car, even as his clinical memory test results continued to slip. My heart truly broke for my dad. I knew that there was no way he could continue to drive, let alone handle the administrative task of owning another automobile. It was an emotional struggle, and I couldn't blame him one bit for feeling that way. Dementia is cruel.
After what I witnessed and experienced with my dad, I hope that you are able to relinquish the keys when it is time. It is wise for you to at least have those intentions now.
I think it is very interesting...and true. As a senior driver, I'm concerned about knowing when to give up the keys. I tell 'them' I can drive better than I can walk. I treasure my driving privileges...and dread the day when I might have to say, "It's time...here are my keys." But I hope I will recognize when that time comes...and not have to be told.
Part of me thinks I should quit getting notifications for this post because it's so discouraging. Chimonger, you make some really good points. I don't know what to think, but I have to believe that there's something going on. Why isn't this an issue? You never hear ANY politician mention it, and that's probably because there are so many elderly who vote. But, it's a terrible problem, and it's only going to get worse.
As for family members not being able to act like adults and figure out what is best for EVERYONE, who the hell knows. There are so many dysfunctional families that it's amazing anyone manages to get though life without seeing a psychiatrist!! I think with siblings it's usually about competition. I was fortunate to be the oldest, and the only girl. My parents were also smart in setting up a trust, POA, etc. Since I was the oldest, I was in charge. But, my husband and I did most of the work, and my brothers were both grateful, and always helped out when asked.
RCosta, I'm glad what you did worked for you, but what if it hadn't? Your response is pretty typical of the child who doesn't want to anger the parent. Here's the thing: they get over it!! Your parent needs you every bit as much, and probably more. You have a lot more power than you realize, but for some reason adult children have a horrible time dealing with a stubborn, unruly parent. Don't take this wrong, but in dealing with issues that impact others, you need to put on your Big Boy or Big Girl Pants and take charge.
My mother was upset with more than once, but she got over it. I wasn't mean to her, but there were things that were unsafe for her and others. I'll say it once again, and probably a dozen more times after this: you'll feel a lot worse if or when your parent causes a horrible accident because he/she was incompetent to drive and you couldn't deal with it. I honestly don't know why that doesn't sink in for some people.
When i talked to my dad about this, he was livid. i couldn't deal with losing a relationship with my father. so after watching a video I suggested he take a driving class and let them decide if he should keep his keys. it has worked for us.
Denlo78, Those who have accidents, can do a number of things to keep their licenses....Including lying about how they hit the [whatever they hit], making up completely inventive but plausible stories; Or if they have mental capability to take a special course offered to drivers who had an accident, to review the rules of the road--those classes can get an accident removed from their driving record, to make insurance not go up....as long as the accident was non-injury [may differ per State]. Police writing up the report, may opt to write details that let the person off the hook more than another one might. Sometimes money changes hands. What gets me, is that police [can anyone explain this please?]... ....will write up an accident report, stating "non-injury/non-reportable", yet someone did get hurt, and/or, one or more vehicles involved were badly damaged [thousands of dollars damage]. That's kinda like writing up reports for Domestic Violence as "non-injury", or other words of piffle, even when someone _did_ get harmed. ...guessing it's not considered "injury" unless someone has to go to the emergency room for medical aid, or the vehicle is totaled?? If the vehicle is not totaled or someone injured, it's non-reportable?? ...So if an elder does not have a string of accidents reported on them, and no one got "injured"[sent to E.R.], then the elder can get their license back OK??? That seems like a setup to fail in some catastrophic ways. There's all kinds of fudging going on. Just been listening to someone telling a litany of family issues, surrounding care of their failing Mom, who's vanity demands she be listed as "independent living", even though she cannot take her own meds, cannot handle her finances, gets confused, sundowns, etc....she really needs Assisted Living. PCP Doc #1 gave a more severe diagnosis, so did that; Neuro Doc #2, gave a minor cognitive impairment. Another opinion Doc #3, said mild cognitive impairment. The 1st 2 Docs have seen this patient often, see her in the same clinic; her file is over 1000 pages. Their Diagnoses should be fairly similar...but is not, yet both done about the same time. [Yes, the "incompetent" diagnosis was done only about 2 months after 2 of the 3 adult children took total control of Mom's estate] The #3 Doc only saw her once. One family member has been using whichever diagnosis works best, to help transfer Mommy from one facility to another, moving her 4 times in less than 2 years. Mom's lawyer wrote diametrically opposed letters re: Mom's assessment: one letter said Mom's "...fine to sign papers, mild cognitive impairment", then swore his assessment trumped the PCP Doc's evaluation of seriously progressing dementia....then wrote another shortly later, saying Mom's too impaired, cannot make her own decisions, cannot sign papers". One adult child of this woman, has encouraged the "more agreeable diagnosis" from the Neuro Doc #2, in order to get Mom accepted to other facilities farther away, trying to strong-arm the 3rd child into taking full responsibility of Mom. Mom is really worse off than those places could handle, and her maintenance is far too complicated for the 3rd child to manage...let alone being left on-the-hook when the other 2 children clean out Mom's accounts. That's only one instance. There just seems to be A LOT of grey areas and/or discrepancies between Docs, Lawyers, Police, Social Services abilities to diagnose, accept the diagnosis, write honest accurate reports, and get elders connected with appropriate levels of help...IF there is any appropriate help. WHAT is wrong with out systems? WHY don't they mesh together better? HOW is it still so easy for one professional to DX someone as demented, while others do not? Who is correct? If an elder is unable to manage their finances, medications, food, and driving, WHAT do we have, to help with all that, when Docs and Social Services frequently fail to properly evaluate elders for the real levels of care they actually need? Or for when families treat each other badly? It's crazy-making!
I guess that's not their concern. If she passed the test they gave her, then they'll issue a renewed drivers license. I sent an email to my state senator, but he's no spring chicken, and I have a feeling it was a waste of time. Maybe you need to talk to the local police department? Talk to her doctor?
My 83 yr old mother in law is forgetting things She goes to the doctor and acts like nothing is wrong. Last time she drove her vehicle she dropped her cane and when she reached for it she forgot she was driving and hit a mail truck. The drivers license facility renewed her license. But I don't see how, when she forgot she was driving during this.
Chimonger, you really nailed it down. And I have to say that's probably where I've failed in getting after people for not doing more to keep aging parents off the road. The link I added from Huffington Post talks about the very things you are saying: how do people who have no other access to their community get there without a car? As a nation with a growing elderly population, something needs to change. I'll be 64 this year, and I realize I don't have that many more years until I'm going to be in that age group. I love being able to get in my car and go wherever and whenever I want!
I also live in a rural community. We have lots of small towns that have nothing more than a couple of bars and a gas station. In order to see a doctor, pick up a prescription or get groceries, it's a fairly long drive on a busy highway to the nearest town that does have these things. There are so many elderly farmers now that the neighbors are in the same boat.
If they are lucky enough to live in town, there is a pretty good transportation system, and cab fare remains reasonable. In fact, this area is one of the most popular retirement areas in Wisconsin, and believe me, the elderly are everywhere! And, of course, plenty of them are driving in cars that are full of dents.
Family members do try to be accommodating, but a lot of them are also dealing with kids who need rides to various school events. Then there are the ones who are still working and trying to fit everything in. To be honest, we are living too long for the type of lifestyle we now have.
It seemed like my dad's driving went from fine to horrible overnight. He had been a traveling salesman, and he was an excellent driver. My mom was a really good driver, too. Almost to the end, when she was in her 90s and had Alzheimer's, she talked to me about driving. I think she still had a legitimate driver's license too!
I could actually relate to several of the stories you had about relatives. When my dad got a new car he decided to let Mom drive (with him in the car) from home to church a couple of times. Bad idea, and he obviously realized his mistake because soon she was back to wanting to drive all the time. But, I'm sure she kept after him and he felt guilty.
When I talk so gallantly about taking the keys away from my parents, I can tell you that it was not easy. I felt horrible, and I was upset and angry at them and myself. How did we get to this point? I also realized that it was going to be my responsibility to make sure they got to places. But, in a way I was lucky because they did move into a retirement community where transportation was available. What a relief. However, my dad still wanted to come back to the farm and use his workshop. He never told me when he was coming, and after talking to his close, younger friend, I was informed that Dad was still safe and being very careful.
He never hit another car, but he sure managed to put a lot of dings in his! He was passing his written driver's tests and somehow passed the vision test, even though he had macular degeneration in one eye!!
When he got really sick and we had to move my parents to assisted living I told my dad that my brothers and I had a fund for him and Mom so they wouldn't have to worry about getting a cab. Unfortunately, he was so sick by that time, he never tried it.
We do have volunteer drivers in our area, but I don't know how many. However, this ongoing conversation we're having here is prompting me to contact our state representative for additional information. And, I'm thinking that's something all of need to start doing. We're on our way to being in this same situation.
It amazes me how long this particular post has lingered, and suddenly it's starting up again. I'm really grateful that so many people see it and are willing to share their stories. And as I've said, for all my ranting, I do understand how difficult it is to get an elderly relative to stop driving. But, despite everything, please don't just throw up your hands and walk away. If you can't do something, then at least contact local authorities. Don't count on a doctor who isn't willing to listen to you, the person who knows the situation best. It's absolutely amazing how stubborn and even mean some elderly parents can be when they feel threatened. And, really, you can't blame them, but you have to get it together somehow and remember that you are saving them or someone else from physical harm.
Some of the creative solutions some have come up with, to convince elders to stop driving, are great..mostly because they worked..but what if they had not worked? My uncle got tricky to stop G'ma from driving. She was advancing Alz., thought she could still drive. Uncle did let her keep driving, until she started getting lost a tiny bit....it was miracles she didn't have an accident. THEN he called the Dept. of Licensing, to give them a heads-up that he was planning to bring GMom in to take what he told her was "A mandatory driver's test for elderly drivers", and PLEADED with the DoL to make sure she flunked the tests...one written, one hands-on driving...because she was pretty good at show-timing, too. Of course she flunked. It was a relatively small town. People knew each other at least in passing. So the personnel at DoL helped make sure G'ma lost her license. OTHERwise, G'ma would have given him what-for, for as long as she could remember words to spew. The DoL was "the bad guy", instead of Uncle. Unfortunately, we were unable to get any authorities to help take away Uncle's driver's license when it was time to do that..authorities all seemed to look the other way. He only stopped driving when he was too physically ill to get into a car. My sister and I did scramble all his sets of keys [mixed keys from one set to another, and hid ones we thought he'd most likely use]. If we'd known how to disable the cars without damage, we'd have done that. But it was kinda futile...even drunk, he figured out how to put the sets back to rights. We did remove the bolt from his rifle, and took the pistol away...they just "went missing". Mom was easier. She lacked money to renew her license about 25 years before she really needed to stop driving....unable to renew DL, car tabs or insurance...she just never got them back. Her car was disabled needing repairs. When she moved in with us, she kept saber-rattling to get her license back; threatened to just drive off in one of the cars, even if it was only up and down the rural gravel road [we made sure to keep the keys where she couldn't find them]....we allowed/encouraged her to try a 4-wheeler on the rural gravel road [knowing it would be more wobbly than the car]....she got too unnerved when she tried it, and never asked again...she knew her eyesight was too bad to do it. The harsh reality is that too many communities are "food deserts" and likewise too far from ANY shopping, to get needs met, without SOMEONE to drive them miles away to get supplies, Dr. appt.'s, etc. One tiny town we lived in for some time, is an example...elders keep driving, because they MUST....there's NO public transit or Senior Busses; people in the small community don't "play nice together" enough to step out of their comfort zones to giver rides to elders to help them age-in-place. With high rates of crime drugs and alcohol abuse troubles in that area [common in rural areas], it's unsafe in many ways. One old gal "drove by committee", expecting passengers to help tell her to stop at stop signs, lights, do turns, talk her through parking---it took 3 years of others offering to drive her places, before she allowed anyone else to drive her places. Her family did not take her keys. Another old gal's driving has been like "Mr. Toad's Wild Ride"; her adult son claimed that was due to bad linkages in her old car...I knew that was hogwash, and it was proven when she got a new car....still "Mr. Toad's Wild Ride"....yet her kids never took that away; last I knew, she was still driving. How she has avoided accidents so many years driving like that [15 that I know of!], is a bunch of miracles. Rural areas are in dire need of public transit or senior busses, or even a nice neighbor with a regular van filling that need...trouble is, most folks who have considered that, lose interest when they learn how much it costs for insurance, permits, etc., not to mention the expense of maintaining a vehicle that puts so many miles on it. Authorities do NOT make it easy to step in and fill needs like that....when they do permit it, it becomes prohibitively costly for seniors to afford to ride it, to cover costs of that solution. Surely, there are better solutions than relegating elders to being stuck in their rooms with no transportation? They shouldn't all need to be moved to facilities--they don't all need that. They just need some assistance to get their needs met, to stay in their homes, often. Years ago, people had some of that...they'd hire someone to help them some days per week, or even daily. Mom had a job like that for awhile...it gave her some income to survive, and helped 2 elders stay in their home longer. Nowadays, there seems little of actual home support happening....what there is, is Under-evaluated by the services nurses who do that, so the elders lack adequate care/support, OR, they cannot get any help because they aren't dying yet. Or helpers are incompetent, with bad attitudes. Where are the competent, middle-level helpers, so needed for home support services? Churches used to do lots of that...not even churches do those things anymore, much. If you live rural, you are screwed for aging-in-place....will that become the new version of "going to sit on the iceberg, to wait for the polar bear to get ya"?
And, yes, I'm passionate about this! When I was in my 20s I was on my way to visit my parents for Father's Day. I was passing a rural subdivision that was on my right when I saw an elderly man driving towards me. We weren't going fast, thank God, and I distinctly remember looking at him and seeing him looking at me, just before he turned into the side of my car as he was thinking he was turning into the subdivision to visit his son. Fortunately neither of us was badly hurt, but my car was totaled. I remember yelling, "you were looking right at me," as he got out of his car and walked to the nearest house. He didn't see me, obviously! What if we had been going faster? What if I'd been on a bike or walking?
BBethany, I'm shocked at your response. Do you not live close by? You said everything that would have led me to believe you'd stop your father from driving! Including the fact that you work for an ambulance service and have seen what can happen. You know better than a doctor who sees your dad exactly how often? And you know he's going to have an accident sooner or later but HOPE it doesn't involve anyone else. Most people are showing signs of worsening driving skills in their 80s, and not very many people should be driving at all by 90.
I realize you aren't getting any help from his doctor, and obviously the state has decided to give your dad a driver's license. I found this on foxnews: ...the oldest drivers, those 85 and up, still have the highest rate of deadly crashes per mile, even more than teens.
Continuing, "You don't want to go around and say 'This person is 85. We've got to take them off the road. That wouldn't be fair,' said Assemblyman David Gantt of New York, where licenses last for eight years." (Same in Wisconsin.)
"On the other side is the family of a Baltimore college student who died last year after being run over by an 83-year old driver who turned into his bike lane."
I truly hope you can figure something out. I don't want anyone I love to be injured or killed by an elderly driver whose family members didn't have the guts or tenacity to figure out a way to get him/her off the road.
Listen people ! you put two gund up and get ready for a knock down drag out ! i Don't play ! being an ex wrestler , they no! you take them keys !!! you pull that main wire in the motor so it will not crank , flatten them tires ! chisel a hole in that gas tank , put the vehicle down any way you can , SO IT WILL NOT CRANK ! SELL IT ! DAAA ! stand you ground ! don't be a chicken ! save lives .. get it ! tahnk you ! :) ♥
The state laws on driving tests are a joke when it comes to the elderly. I'd love to know how this works. My guess is the elderly still have influence by voting, and let's face it, a lot of them have no means of transportation if they can't drive. Look at how bad it is in Florida, and I don't think there's been any legislation there.
The thoughts and suggestions of fellow bloggers are very helpful. My dad is 91 and exactly one year ago he had a Siegmoidectomy and the surgeon said he had only 1 to 2 weeks to live as he had secondary cancer in his lived and an 8 cm AAA. He has not had an eye test in 12 years despite me making appointments and accompanying him to the waiting area of the Optition, he get violent and refuses to step inside the examining room. His GP has cleared him for driving even though I've said in my opinion he shouldn't be... I work for the Ambulance service and see the other side of the picture. Sooner or later he will have an accident, as he live in a very rural area I hope it's only himself that is injured or worse.
This is a tough situation for anyone whose driving has allowed independence for a long time. My father [no dementia] always loved driving and his car still had the new car smell when his specialist informed him that due to the precarious state of his aortic aneurysm (5cm +) with an operation [at age 90] not possible due to other physical risks) he could no longer drive. He was totally crestfallen and seemed helpless. My heart went out to him. However, within a few days, after realizing that local transport was inexpensive, readily available and that he would always have company on bus trips from others he knew, the sadness over his felt loss was much lessened, and he came to grips with the fact that it is not responsible to be a ticking time bomb behind the steering wheel. His aneurysm ruptured two years later (almost unexpectedly) without the warning of significant pain. In retrospect, I will always be thankful to the specialist who broke the news in a neutral, matter-of-fact but kind way to my father so that under the circumstances he was able to react more with reason and less with emotion. (He was able to find a buyer for his car without difficulty and used some of that money for taxi service in bad weather.)
Good advice; just want to add my experience. Sometimes a person can pass the state driver's test, but still a danger to others, even though the caregiver knows it is not safe for that person to continue driving. My state's (FL) Department of Motor Vehicles tested my husband's driving when I reported that his judgement was so impaired that he made a legal left turn in heavy traffic, and was unable to safely avoid and oncoming vehicle running a red light and hitting our vehicle in the rear, severely damaging it. He passed the test, but continued to drive dangerously.
I'll never forget those months of knowing Dad's driving was coming to a close, evidenced by his getting lost more frequently—and I knew he wasn't going to give up those keys willingly.
Only a serious accident that totaled his car ended a long and distinctive driving career. It's as if the fates intervened made his decision ... but the anguish in the months following, leading up to the end of his life, was truly painful.
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Senior Health Issues That Impact Driving
Your willingness to hang in there, doing what's best for your parents, even though it's REALLY difficult, tells me how much you love them. They raised a responsible, caring, thoughtful person.
Please let us know how it goes, and stay strong. You're a wonderful example for the other people who will find this while struggling with the same problem.
I didn't realise this thread has been here so many years, but it sure helped me today!!
I know this is going to be hard and I'd rather be disowned and mad at, then trying to pick up the pieces if the worst were to happen.
I know I've caused a lot of stress, and hate doing so for them d86/m82.
It is going to take a type of emotional disconnect on my part to follow through, I'm going to give him another day or two to think of what transpired. It is a pride thing and a great fear and loss, I get that , but my fear is not, unwarranted, like he wants to thinks it is.
It's sad, it is hard, but I know it is the best for all concerned.
Thanks again!
Know you are doing the right thing, whatever it takes, to keep him off the highways. My mom was very upset when I talked to her, but eventually she was fine. You can get thru this.
I just went through trying to "have" the conversation that my father is becoming more of a danger while driving. Bottom line, he disowned me right there and then. I have been caregiver for 7 years, since my mom had a stroke. Well I walked away . Feel ashamed yet can no longer ignore this situation. If I'm not there he will not leave mom alone, so he has been limited on driving (for now)
Oh, what to do, my mind and heart are saying two different things. I don't want to be sneaky, I want to be up front and honest , and talk it out civil like. Yet, I see that is no longer an option.
Disowned
We have kept his car from him since his broken pelvis, and he just made an appointment for himself to get another actual driving test in two weeks.
I read on a blog recently of a man whose dad was in a similar spot, and the family created a fake letter supposedly from the DMV, telling his dad that in order to take another driving test, he had to bring a letter from his doctor stating he is still safe to drive. His dad cancelled his DMV appointment, and gave up his keys.
This is what I'm going to do today. If my dad still goes to take his driving test, and happens to pass (!), we are still not going to let him drive! We just CANNOT take the chance that he hurts himself, innocent pedestrians or drivers, or jeopardizes his hard-earned estate!
My dad, a retired professional tractor-trailer driver with an impressive command of his skills, always said that he would give up the keys when necessary at some point in the future. I gave him major props for that at the time.
The difficulty arose when he began getting lost on the road in the last 2 years of his life, but insisted there was no problem. Though he was able to handle physically maneuvering the car, his increasing short-term memory issues (due to the advent of Alzheimer's type dementia) contributed to this.
Even his neurologist's recommendation to stop driving fell on deaf ears. It was only losing his car in an accident (that he caused) mere months before he passed that finally ended those driving privileges.
He remained passionate about getting another car, even as his clinical memory test results continued to slip. My heart truly broke for my dad. I knew that there was no way he could continue to drive, let alone handle the administrative task of owning another automobile. It was an emotional struggle, and I couldn't blame him one bit for feeling that way. Dementia is cruel.
After what I witnessed and experienced with my dad, I hope that you are able to relinquish the keys when it is time. It is wise for you to at least have those intentions now.
As for family members not being able to act like adults and figure out what is best for EVERYONE, who the hell knows. There are so many dysfunctional families that it's amazing anyone manages to get though life without seeing a psychiatrist!! I think with siblings it's usually about competition. I was fortunate to be the oldest, and the only girl. My parents were also smart in setting up a trust, POA, etc. Since I was the oldest, I was in charge. But, my husband and I did most of the work, and my brothers were both grateful, and always helped out when asked.
RCosta, I'm glad what you did worked for you, but what if it hadn't? Your response is pretty typical of the child who doesn't want to anger the parent. Here's the thing: they get over it!! Your parent needs you every bit as much, and probably more. You have a lot more power than you realize, but for some reason adult children have a horrible time dealing with a stubborn, unruly parent. Don't take this wrong, but in dealing with issues that impact others, you need to put on your Big Boy or Big Girl Pants and take charge.
My mother was upset with more than once, but she got over it. I wasn't mean to her, but there were things that were unsafe for her and others. I'll say it once again, and probably a dozen more times after this: you'll feel a lot worse if or when your parent causes a horrible accident because he/she was incompetent to drive and you couldn't deal with it. I honestly don't know why that doesn't sink in for some people.
Or if they have mental capability to take a special course offered to drivers who had an accident, to review the rules of the road--those classes can get an accident removed from their driving record, to make insurance not go up....as long as the accident was non-injury [may differ per State].
Police writing up the report, may opt to write details that let the person off the hook more than another one might.
Sometimes money changes hands.
What gets me, is that police [can anyone explain this please?]...
....will write up an accident report, stating "non-injury/non-reportable", yet someone did get hurt, and/or, one or more vehicles involved were badly damaged [thousands of dollars damage].
That's kinda like writing up reports for Domestic Violence as "non-injury", or other words of piffle, even when someone _did_ get harmed.
...guessing it's not considered "injury" unless someone has to go to the emergency room for medical aid, or the vehicle is totaled?? If the vehicle is not totaled or someone injured, it's non-reportable??
...So if an elder does not have a string of accidents reported on them, and no one got "injured"[sent to E.R.], then the elder can get their license back OK???
That seems like a setup to fail in some catastrophic ways.
There's all kinds of fudging going on.
Just been listening to someone telling a litany of family issues, surrounding care of their failing Mom, who's vanity demands she be listed as "independent living", even though she cannot take her own meds, cannot handle her finances, gets confused, sundowns, etc....she really needs Assisted Living.
PCP Doc #1 gave a more severe diagnosis, so did that;
Neuro Doc #2, gave a minor cognitive impairment.
Another opinion Doc #3, said mild cognitive impairment.
The 1st 2 Docs have seen this patient often, see her in the same clinic; her file is over 1000 pages. Their Diagnoses should be fairly similar...but is not, yet both done about the same time.
[Yes, the "incompetent" diagnosis was done only about 2 months after 2 of the 3 adult children took total control of Mom's estate]
The #3 Doc only saw her once.
One family member has been using whichever diagnosis works best, to help transfer Mommy from one facility to another, moving her 4 times in less than 2 years.
Mom's lawyer wrote diametrically opposed letters re: Mom's assessment: one letter said Mom's "...fine to sign papers, mild cognitive impairment", then swore his assessment trumped the PCP Doc's evaluation of seriously progressing dementia....then wrote another shortly later, saying Mom's too impaired, cannot make her own decisions, cannot sign papers".
One adult child of this woman, has encouraged the "more agreeable diagnosis" from the Neuro Doc #2, in order to get Mom accepted to other facilities farther away, trying to strong-arm the 3rd child into taking full responsibility of Mom.
Mom is really worse off than those places could handle, and her maintenance is far too complicated for the 3rd child to manage...let alone being left on-the-hook when the other 2 children clean out Mom's accounts.
That's only one instance.
There just seems to be A LOT of grey areas and/or discrepancies between Docs, Lawyers, Police, Social Services abilities to diagnose, accept the diagnosis, write honest accurate reports, and get elders connected with appropriate levels of help...IF there is any appropriate help.
WHAT is wrong with out systems? WHY don't they mesh together better? HOW is it still so easy for one professional to DX someone as demented, while others do not? Who is correct?
If an elder is unable to manage their finances, medications, food, and driving, WHAT do we have, to help with all that, when Docs and Social Services frequently fail to properly evaluate elders for the real levels of care they actually need?
Or for when families treat each other badly?
It's crazy-making!
I also live in a rural community. We have lots of small towns that have nothing more than a couple of bars and a gas station. In order to see a doctor, pick up a prescription or get groceries, it's a fairly long drive on a busy highway to the nearest town that does have these things. There are so many elderly farmers now that the neighbors are in the same boat.
If they are lucky enough to live in town, there is a pretty good transportation system, and cab fare remains reasonable. In fact, this area is one of the most popular retirement areas in Wisconsin, and believe me, the elderly are everywhere! And, of course, plenty of them are driving in cars that are full of dents.
Family members do try to be accommodating, but a lot of them are also dealing with kids who need rides to various school events. Then there are the ones who are still working and trying to fit everything in. To be honest, we are living too long for the type of lifestyle we now have.
It seemed like my dad's driving went from fine to horrible overnight. He had been a traveling salesman, and he was an excellent driver. My mom was a really good driver, too. Almost to the end, when she was in her 90s and had Alzheimer's, she talked to me about driving. I think she still had a legitimate driver's license too!
I could actually relate to several of the stories you had about relatives. When my dad got a new car he decided to let Mom drive (with him in the car) from home to church a couple of times. Bad idea, and he obviously realized his mistake because soon she was back to wanting to drive all the time. But, I'm sure she kept after him and he felt guilty.
When I talk so gallantly about taking the keys away from my parents, I can tell you that it was not easy. I felt horrible, and I was upset and angry at them and myself. How did we get to this point? I also realized that it was going to be my responsibility to make sure they got to places. But, in a way I was lucky because they did move into a retirement community where transportation was available. What a relief. However, my dad still wanted to come back to the farm and use his workshop. He never told me when he was coming, and after talking to his close, younger friend, I was informed that Dad was still safe and being very careful.
He never hit another car, but he sure managed to put a lot of dings in his! He was passing his written driver's tests and somehow passed the vision test, even though he had macular degeneration in one eye!!
When he got really sick and we had to move my parents to assisted living I told my dad that my brothers and I had a fund for him and Mom so they wouldn't have to worry about getting a cab. Unfortunately, he was so sick by that time, he never tried it.
We do have volunteer drivers in our area, but I don't know how many. However, this ongoing conversation we're having here is prompting me to contact our state representative for additional information. And, I'm thinking that's something all of need to start doing. We're on our way to being in this same situation.
It amazes me how long this particular post has lingered, and suddenly it's starting up again. I'm really grateful that so many people see it and are willing to share their stories. And as I've said, for all my ranting, I do understand how difficult it is to get an elderly relative to stop driving. But, despite everything, please don't just throw up your hands and walk away. If you can't do something, then at least contact local authorities. Don't count on a doctor who isn't willing to listen to you, the person who knows the situation best. It's absolutely amazing how stubborn and even mean some elderly parents can be when they feel threatened. And, really, you can't blame them, but you have to get it together somehow and remember that you are saving them or someone else from physical harm.
My uncle got tricky to stop G'ma from driving.
She was advancing Alz., thought she could still drive. Uncle did let her keep driving, until she started getting lost a tiny bit....it was miracles she didn't have an accident. THEN he called the Dept. of Licensing, to give them a heads-up that he was planning to bring GMom in to take what he told her was "A mandatory driver's test for elderly drivers", and PLEADED with the DoL to make sure she flunked the tests...one written, one hands-on driving...because she was pretty good at show-timing, too.
Of course she flunked. It was a relatively small town. People knew each other at least in passing. So the personnel at DoL helped make sure G'ma lost her license. OTHERwise, G'ma would have given him what-for, for as long as she could remember words to spew. The DoL was "the bad guy", instead of Uncle.
Unfortunately, we were unable to get any authorities to help take away Uncle's driver's license when it was time to do that..authorities all seemed to look the other way. He only stopped driving when he was too physically ill to get into a car. My sister and I did scramble all his sets of keys [mixed keys from one set to another, and hid ones we thought he'd most likely use]. If we'd known how to disable the cars without damage, we'd have done that. But it was kinda futile...even drunk, he figured out how to put the sets back to rights. We did remove the bolt from his rifle, and took the pistol away...they just "went missing".
Mom was easier.
She lacked money to renew her license about 25 years before she really needed to stop driving....unable to renew DL, car tabs or insurance...she just never got them back. Her car was disabled needing repairs. When she moved in with us, she kept saber-rattling to get her license back; threatened to just drive off in one of the cars, even if it was only up and down the rural gravel road [we made sure to keep the keys where she couldn't find them]....we allowed/encouraged her to try a 4-wheeler on the rural gravel road [knowing it would be more wobbly than the car]....she got too unnerved when she tried it, and never asked again...she knew her eyesight was too bad to do it.
The harsh reality is that too many communities are "food deserts" and likewise too far from ANY shopping, to get needs met, without SOMEONE to drive them miles away to get supplies, Dr. appt.'s, etc.
One tiny town we lived in for some time, is an example...elders keep driving, because they MUST....there's NO public transit or Senior Busses; people in the small community don't "play nice together" enough to step out of their comfort zones to giver rides to elders to help them age-in-place. With high rates of crime drugs and alcohol abuse troubles in that area [common in rural areas], it's unsafe in many ways.
One old gal "drove by committee", expecting passengers to help tell her to stop at stop signs, lights, do turns, talk her through parking---it took 3 years of others offering to drive her places, before she allowed anyone else to drive her places. Her family did not take her keys.
Another old gal's driving has been like "Mr. Toad's Wild Ride"; her adult son claimed that was due to bad linkages in her old car...I knew that was hogwash, and it was proven when she got a new car....still "Mr. Toad's Wild Ride"....yet her kids never took that away; last I knew, she was still driving. How she has avoided accidents so many years driving like that [15 that I know of!], is a bunch of miracles.
Rural areas are in dire need of public transit or senior busses, or even a nice neighbor with a regular van filling that need...trouble is, most folks who have considered that, lose interest when they learn how much it costs for insurance, permits, etc., not to mention the expense of maintaining a vehicle that puts so many miles on it. Authorities do NOT make it easy to step in and fill needs like that....when they do permit it, it becomes prohibitively costly for seniors to afford to ride it, to cover costs of that solution.
Surely, there are better solutions than relegating elders to being stuck in their rooms with no transportation?
They shouldn't all need to be moved to facilities--they don't all need that.
They just need some assistance to get their needs met, to stay in their homes, often.
Years ago, people had some of that...they'd hire someone to help them some days per week, or even daily. Mom had a job like that for awhile...it gave her some income to survive, and helped 2 elders stay in their home longer.
Nowadays, there seems little of actual home support happening....what there is, is Under-evaluated by the services nurses who do that, so the elders lack adequate care/support, OR, they cannot get any help because they aren't dying yet. Or helpers are incompetent, with bad attitudes.
Where are the competent, middle-level helpers, so needed for home support services? Churches used to do lots of that...not even churches do those things anymore, much.
If you live rural, you are screwed for aging-in-place....will that become the new version of "going to sit on the iceberg, to wait for the polar bear to get ya"?
I realize you aren't getting any help from his doctor, and obviously the state has decided to give your dad a driver's license. I found this on foxnews: ...the oldest drivers, those 85 and up, still have the highest rate of deadly crashes per mile, even more than teens.
Continuing, "You don't want to go around and say 'This person is 85. We've got to take them off the road. That wouldn't be fair,' said Assemblyman David Gantt of New York, where licenses last for eight years." (Same in Wisconsin.)
"On the other side is the family of a Baltimore college student who died last year after being run over by an 83-year old driver who turned into his bike lane."
I truly hope you can figure something out. I don't want anyone I love to be injured or killed by an elderly driver whose family members didn't have the guts or tenacity to figure out a way to get him/her off the road.
He has not had an eye test in 12 years despite me making appointments and accompanying him to the waiting area of the Optition, he get violent and refuses to step inside the examining room.
His GP has cleared him for driving even though I've said in my opinion he shouldn't be... I work for the Ambulance service and see the other side of the picture. Sooner or later he will have an accident, as he live in a very rural area I hope it's only himself that is injured or worse.
Only a serious accident that totaled his car ended a long and distinctive driving career. It's as if the fates intervened made his decision ... but the anguish in the months following, leading up to the end of his life, was truly painful.