My mom has dementia, she doesn’t want to admit it. My husband and I are moving closer and our teen son is angry, calling us selfish. Am I?

Firstly, read up in *anosognosia*

"mom has dementia which she won’t admit to".

If you break you leg, you can see & feel it. If you brain is breaking in little ways - the brain doesn't always know.

https://www.agingcare.com/articles/anosognosia-dementia-patients-cant-recognize-impairment-210090.htm

https://www.agingcare.com/articles/anosognosia-top-tips-how-to-handle-varying-levels-of-awareness-430619.htm

Your primary responsibility in life is: (in this order)
Your minor child
Your spouse
Yourself.

What plans have your parents made for their old age? Have you considered moving them closer to you?

If your teenaged son is an angry guy on a good day, consider finding a therapist for him.

Is your brother & sister asking you to help them with your parents? If not, and if your parents don't require a great deal of help right now, I'd rethink the plan to move away when your son has only 2 years of high school left. Once he graduates, then might be a better time to relocate. You love your son, too, not just your parents, so take into consideration what's best for ALL concerned. With your mother refusing to acknowledge her dementia in the first place, she may not even welcome your 'assistance' and turn away your attempts to help. Speak to your siblings before you make any heroic attempts to swoop in and save the day, that's my suggestion. What exactly are they doing for your parents on a daily basis that they need your help with? Find that out before you do anything. Your husband & son should come first in your life, then your parents who already have help from their other children.

And tell your son being adopted is not something he should be wishing for. If he was, he'd have another whole set of complaints to be angry about! Being a teenager is a very tough time of life in the best of situations, ain't that the truth?

Good luck, no matter what you decide to do.

Walk in his shoes, which it appears you have. He would be a new student in a new school, trying to make new friends. He's at the age where he is going through changes and needs normalcy to get through them Sure he may adjust, then again he may not, Have you sat him down and asked why he is so angry?

Before all these electronic annoyances, many families would sit down at the dinner table and talk, no phones, tvs, or any other electronic disturbances. Have you done that?

More info would be helpful: how old is your mom? What is her physical abilities? Does she have a DPoA assigned?

I think you need to have a family discussion with your other siblings to get everyone. If I were in your shoes I'd let my sibs know that we'll be staying put until my son graduates and then after that reconsider whether moving closer will create the help she needs. Your mom's care needs will be there for quite some time and a lot can happen in 2 years. In the meantime you can discuss with your siblings ways you can help from afar.

I feel for your son...he is calling it selfish (and it obviously isn't) but it is a huge change in his life that he may not easily recover from. Maybe sit down with him and discuss the quandary of the situation. He's probably 16-17, right? Old enough to start seeing the hard stuff in life and offer to be a part of the solution.

FYI I had a very angry son with ADD and the one saving piece was that he was able to make and keep decent friends throughout HS. Losing that as a sophomore would have created a whole new poop show. Maybe ask your son how he'd solve the problem? Sometimes when kids have to think through challenging issues themselves they come up with some really good answers. In preparing my son for any naughty behavior by him (at a play date for example) I would ask him what should be the appropriate consequence for someone who did such-and-such. He always came up with something fair and he couldn't complain if we had to apply it to him. Give your son a chance to surprise you in a good way.

Secondly, what are your reasons to want move closer to your Mom?

Because she won't move closer to you?

My son asked me this a few years back (when seemingly on call as 'fixer' for family members).

"How old do you have to be to say no to your Mother?".

Kids, eh? But nailed the issue!

I am no longer the 'Fixer' but reshaped myself as Advocate.
It was a long road, but well worth the journey.

Jkassd, tell us more about the situation if you want.

I don't think moving 8 hours to care for your mother is going to be all that you envision. Not to mention your mother's denial about her dementia. You are not going to teach your son the value of caring for family by making this move.

Are you willing to give up the rest of your life to care for your aging parents and your in-laws until they pass away? The work and sense of obligation only increases and never decreases. There are many on here who have been doing this for decades with no end in sight. Ask yourself how much you are willing to do for mom and the rest of the parents before you have to make other arrangements for their care. Get all these things ironed out and talk with sister, brother, mom, dad and in-laws before jumping in feet first.

Your son is not being unreasonable in being angry about having to move for his final two years of school.

I would stay put, at least until your son graduates.

You can help from afar, somehow. What many caregivers lack is respite care, so plan on spending a week there or a few 4 day weekends to give your siblings some much appreciated time off from the demands of caregiving.

Is your dad helping with your mom's care? Is he capable or are your siblings helping him too? One mistake I made was doing TOO MUCH for my parents. It has a disabling effect, keeping them from doing as much for themselves as possible. It may be too late for this for your parents, but just something I learned a decade too late and have paid dearly for.

You could help arrange for a helper, with your parents paying, for some period of hours a week. Is it time for your parents to move out of their home into assisted living or at least senior housing of some sort that could simplify caring for them. See if their groceries can be delivered. Prescriptions. Cut back on unnecessary doctor appointments - some docs want to see my mom every 3 months and it's so unnecessary so I put an end to it. If it's needed - do it. But often these are just followups and when there's nothing new, then it's a waste of time and money.

Good luck.

You are not selfish and you only have one mother. My family emigrated to the US when my brother was 16 and I was 11. The move was harder on my brother but only because people made fun of his accent. Your son is old enough to understand that your hands are tied in this situation and sometimes serious diagnoses in families require serious action.

Your son is your first priority. I would not jeopardize his happiness. 10th grade is a bad time to relocate.

I have 3 younger children in succession(4 total), all 3 years in school apart. The youngest is turning 7. That’s, 14 years until I can move without disrupting any of them? She’s 70. My brother works too much to take care of her and it’s a lot to ask my sister in law to take this on. They haven’t always gotten along anyway. She’d be moved in with my sister who is having marital trouble, as I am. My sister cared for her father in law for years. I worry about them as well. Sorry if I’m addressing more than one question here. Idk how these exactly work.

also, my mental health is declining despite medications and looking forward to another 14 years with zero support is daunting.

We were transferred to another state when our two youngest were in high school. The older of the two was an incoming junior, and our youngest was an incoming freshman. We were moving closer to our families, and it was a good thing, as unbeknownst to me, my mother would begin to fail about two years later.

I would never, ever do it again.

I implore you to listen to your son. He is your top priority, not your parents. Your sacrifice to care for your parents is not his sacrifice, nor should it be. Tearing him away from his friends and school is not a good idea, and he cannot tell you that more bluntly. As he has troubles already, don't make it worse for him.

You can model caring for family by ensuring your parents are cared for and visiting whenever possible, but you should not return to the role of obedient child while abdicating the role of parent. At the very least, wait until your son is out of school before relocating. By assuming your showing him about caring for family, you're doing exactly the opposite by showing him you don't care about him. (That's how he sees it, and I completely get it.)

We didn't have a choice in our move -- it was my husband's employer who moved us, and my husband didn't have an option for other employment in his field where we were. However, I think he would have sacrificed his 30+ year career in order to not do to our boys what we did. Please don't make the same mistake.

EDIT: Your marriage is a mess, too?? So you're possibly subjecting your children to a life-changing move AND a crumbling family life? What are you thinking??

At 8 hrs away, you really won't to be able to help much. As my mom started down the dementia road, I lived 4 hrs away, and I am retired, did most of the daily phone calls, and going to dr appt, visited for 3_4 days every 6 weeks, and my little sister who has a tween/teen and works full time( fully supportive with mom btw) lived an hour away, and helped as she could mostly on weekends. If we hadn't had super supportive friends and neighbors, it never would have worked as long as it did. It finally got bad enough she couldn't live alone, and I brought her to my house, "for a visit" , then to AL, and now Memory Care.

At 8 hours away, you can't do much more than if you lived across the country.
You can arrange/handle hiring caregivers, get durable POA and set up auto bill pays,LTC claims, insurance claims, housekeeping. The closer family can do Medical POA and deal with medical.

Family needs to get together and discuss how things are going to go, based on finances, can they afford 24/7 caregivers at home, can they afford memory care, can they private pay and then sell home, will they need Medicaid? PoA set up?
If a facility, where? Near your other family, near you? Have you researched facilities for the best fit

Have a plan before you upend your family's life. It's great you want to help and support, but really, maybe parents moving closer to children may be the way to go. Or help from where you are for a couple of years until your son graduates. Then reevaluate.

Even now, with mom in Memory Care less than 15 min away, with hospice support, I've had to go to ER in the middle of the night, and course I visit her multiple days a week to check on her and visit, and to make sure things are being handled correctly. I think it's good for the staff to know you will be coming by. I do like her place and trust them to do a good job, but its my mom, you know ? Think about this if or when you decide on caregiving at home or facility. If at home it's super pricey ($28/hr, when we did it after a fall)and you need to have a plan if someone doesn't show up. 8 hours away isn't going to be able do any of the above. I've heard of people using a geriatric case manager when they live far away from loved ones.

I realize this is a public forum, but be human. Don’t be rude. This is why I’m asking strangers, because I DO worry about hurting my son AND his younger 3 siblings. Have a heart before you tell me “what are you thinking???” This is NOT an easy decision and I DO worry that I’m being selfish. So yea, be kind

Now that you've given a bit more info, I'll expand on my original comment. You say you're having marital issues and declining mental health issues in spite of meds yourself. That should be your main priority right now; getting those issues straightened out & addressed. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. You can't be a carer to your parents if you're in bad shape yourself, right? So get well FIRST, then think about a move. You don't have to stay where you are for 14 years; your younger children can adjust to a move much more easily than a high school boy in his sophomore year can.

I don't think MJ1929 is 'judging' you but telling you how HER situation worked out & why she would never do it again. Try to look at her comment objectively and not emotionally. It's priceless to get an opinion from someone who's 'been there & done that' and giving you the benefit of that experience, from the other side. Take heed. You're telling us that you're having marital difficulties AND wanting to move your children at the same time, which is potentially disastrous on two fronts at once. Try to focus on ONE crisis at a time, is the point. Don't spread yourself so thin that everything falls apart. If mom (you) falls apart and the marriage falls apart, EVERYTHING goes to hell in a handbasket!!!!! That is the point she is trying to get across to you.

Get some medical help/therapy/med adjustments and worry about those issues first and foremost. See if your marriage will make it before you do anything else that will disrupt your immediate family. A divorce is VERY hard on children; I know, I put my own children through one when my daughter was 7 and she still talks about to this day and she's 28, engaged and an RN. Those memories don't die off. It was the right decision, but it still hurts the family, so take all these things into consideration.

Nobody is here to judge you or to be harsh/hard on you. Most of us are in stressful situations with our own folks/families/situations and aren't in positions to throw stones. We all offer support here, for the most part, aside from the occasional troll who comes along & talks nonsense. Take what you like & leave the rest but know that what's been said to you here in these comments is all with the best of intentions. You can't be Superwoman to all the loved ones in your life, you know? Deal with what's most important right now and that's all.

BEST OF LUCK.

It is a lot to have to make these decisions - they are so overwhelming and hard.

I can tell you that I would love if my sister made any offer to spend time with mom and also help. So I am touched that sisters like you exist.

I think you have a lot to think about and if you are making your decision on all factors - including wanting to spend time with your mom before the disease gets further along then I think it is even more important as to why you are thinking of making this move.

Your son is a teenager and will for sure be affected by the move and that has to be considered - but if your heart is to be close to your mom to spend more time with her and help out and come together as a family to make her quality of life the best it can be for where everyone she is right now -then I commend you for thinking about such a hard decision that does affect your whole family and still seeing how wonderful that could be for all. Hard yes - but also some beautiful things in it….for however long it is possible.

I am and always have been close to my mom - before her massive stroke I did spend time with her as she lives close by - I talk to her every day and truth is now after her stroke I plain out wish I had made sure to do all the things we talked about doing. When I say I really did spend time with my mom - we had shopping trips or days by the pool - we text or chatted all week long. We did always make time for each other - but in the blink of an eye life can change and it can be and look very different - so I think if I thought my mom would be “different” from a disease that I too would move closer to her and family in hopes to get through it in the best and greatest way we could.
I have been her full care for almost 3 years now and it’s not by guilt of owing her anything - it really just is that I love her - she was a good mom and I want her life to be as blessed as the life she always tried her best to give me.
I just have a value of what family is - I know it takes a village to help with elder care - raising kids - etc - I also know how exhausting it is but I just have always been the person who follows my heart - I’m a giver and I honestly wouldn’t change that about myself.
Again - you have many (including your spouse) to include when making this choice as yes they all matter but I am just touched that you are coming together as a family to find a better solution. Whatever that may be - best wishes 🌈

I actually LAUGHED when you stated a teenager calling you "selfish". C'mon we were all teens at one time and if there is every an age of selfishness it is the teen years. Far worse than toddlers.
The teen years are all about the instant and it is a wonderful time to introduce the concepts of LONG TERM and LIFE DECISIONS that don't directly benefit yourself.

Sadly, you are being called selfish for trying to do a very unselfish thing.

What you describe is very similar to what my parents did when I was young. My sister, who was about your son’s age, was furious, and never forgave our parents. I was about the age of your youngest, and now, well over 50 years later, am still very glad my parents made the move.

My parents made deals with my angry sister. She got to stay with friends to finish the year at her old school. She got the best room in the new house and a lot of upgrades and considerations in it. It was blatant bribery, and only partly effective.

The absolute reality is children do not get to govern where the parents decide the family will live. You move and in two years your son can move right back where you had been if he so chooses. It will be his choice then. You are not ruining his life. You are mildly inconveniencing a couple years for him. He may not be able to see life beyond high school and his friends there, but in a couple years - even if you don’t move - that is all changing and going away for him.

My only suggestion would be for you and your husband to move if and only if it is a good choice for you two and your marriage. You are the core. All other considerations radiate outward from your union.

You seem to get getting a wide range of answers here, so I’m going to be the outlier.

Honestly, it’s great that you want to be there for your mom. Commendable, really. Also great that you don’t want your sibs to shoulder the burden entirely.

However, Your kid has 1 year left of school. If you move now, he will get over it, but you have to be prepared for a lot of grief. A year and a half, he’ll be going away to college wherever he chooses - move then and your home life will be better.

There are lots of people on here and they are all commenting about how their families do nothing but bicker. They are at war with each other. If it were me, I’d keep the peace until Graduation Day, and then list on that day. You’re going to have your hands full enough with what’s to come caregiving (believe me with that one) that you will want your relationship with your son to move forward in his college years on good terms together.

After all, he’ll be looking after you one day. Hopefully.

Being 16 and going into a new school midterm are both excrutiatingly difficult situations.

Teenagers are not the nicest people on the planet. So deciding to move him away from everyone he has ever known probably feels like the end of the world. And it is for him and everything he knows.

A seven year old is far better equipped to deal with change. They haven't had much opportunity for their peers to stomp them into the ground. You might get more drama but, they adjust better, they are a typically nicer age group.

I would not take on more change until you get your nuclear family more stable. It could very well cause an explosion. He's angry in therapy, you're in therapy and getting ready to go for marital therapy, sounds like a whole lot of problems that you can't move away from. Adding a demented mom/grandma to the mix isn't beneficial in any way. You and your husband have 4 children that are your priority, not aging parents.

16 is old enough to talk to him and find out what he would like to see happen. Does he have a friend he could board with until he graduates? Is there a local YMCA that he could stay at?

Give him some choices about his life and he may just surprise you.

I had a friend that stayed at a YWCA to graduate with her class and there were boundaries and agreements about what her end of the deal was for being allowed to do that. She had to work and buy all her own food and much of her clothing. Want to play adult, well, that's what adults do. She also had to keep her GPA up, any slack and game over.

If you are the only one in your nuclear family that wants to move, then yes, you are being selfish.

Sounds like this is more about leaving your angry, abusive husband.

See a divorce attorney first. Do not leave until you do. You have more rights if you don't abandon the marital home.

He will want to make you miserable if you move, or if you don't move?

J, it sounds like there are a LOT of moving parts in your life right now and you are trying to keep all of them from crashing down on your head. Lots of folks pulling you in different directions.

This sounds like a situation that calls for flexibility and the ability to compromise. Is anyone else in your household good at that, or is it just you twisting yourself into a pretzel?

For right now, it sounds like going to visit your mom for a week might allow you to get the lay of the land. Also, gets you some space to think.

Is that doable?

PS, a marriage in which it feels like you're being punished for trying to do the right thing is very bad for your mental health. Ask me how I know.

THanks for the extra info, you've got a lot on your plate. And I misunderstood about the 8 hour move, so if you're 8 hrs away now, you can still help in some of the ways I mentioned.
But, as they say in air travel, " put your air mask on first, then help anyone else". Getting into therapy, by yourself or with your husband should be a priority. A lot of you teens anger and acting out could be due to the tensions in the household. If you do plan to move, it would at least be easier on him in summer break. Do you guys have jobs lined up in the new city or work from home?

Dealing with dementia in a parent is hard, emotionally. For me it's watching pieces of her dissappear day by day. Some days are good, and some days she doesn't recognize you, or you're fielding a call about your prim and proper mom calling a caregiver an a****** and biting someone. It's taken a toll; when she was living with me a peeing in a trash can or accusing us of not letting her go home to her children as she sundowns, it put incredible tension on myself and husband. We've been married for 38 years, and we were snappishwith each other and sleep deprived. I'm usually not much of a crier, at least not in public.. I think I've cried more tears in the last 2 years than in the previous 20.

My advice, take time to plan. Get some therapy, decide if the marriage is worth working on. No adult should take their anger out on their children, and I hate to say this but document in a journal, if it gets bad. Get with other family members, maybe a long weekend at your parents, and see what they need and can afford. Don't jump into caregiving, they will be leaning on you; with dementia they can't help it. You can't expect a lot of support from them.

You are between the proverbial rock and hard place.

I know of several families who had to move while there child was in the upper levels of high school. The successful families were the ones who arranged to board their high schooler in their home town. I do not know if that is an option for you.

A couple times you mentioned wanting to help your sister, but also that you need support too. I don't think your expectation of getting any support from your Mum, brother or sister is reasonable.

What do you do for work that you can up and move a great distance? Is your husband's job flexible enough to allow him to move?

I agree with the poster who suggested you see a divorce lawyer sooner than later. You need to know what your rights are. If Mum is in a different state what are the divorce laws there? You really need to be protected.

Another thought. You are in distress, do you have any form of a support network where you currently live? What about where Mum lives? Don't think that your siblings will be helping you. Who else is there? Is it the place you grew up?

Yes. Your son is more important than your parents. Stay where you are. He's at a super pivotal age and should not be uprooted. There are plenty of options for caregiving that does not involve a long move or hands on care.

I wouldn't call it selfish, it's not like you're doing this for your own amusement, but I do think it may be misguided. How far have you got with the decision?

I've now read further down the thread.

So. Marriage in difficulties. Four children, age 7, 10, 13, 16. Living 8 hours' travel from mother (father too?) developing dementia, and from siblings with their own challenges.

Um. What support are you expecting from family that would compensate for the immense disruption of moving home right now? What about jobs? What about friendship networks, and established relationships?

I'm sorry you are having such a rotten time of it, and I can certainly understand that a fresh start closer to your family would look tempting, but I don't feel at all sure that you've really thought this through.

For a start, the work involved in providing care for a person with dementia - especially someone who won't address it - places a huge strain even on healthy family relationships and good marriages. If you enter on the project already in trouble? - seriously. Don't.

Of course he is angry as any of us would be if we were told we had to move and we have no control of our own lives. Why are you the one that has to move? An abusive husband? You need to do what you can to protect your children and yourself.

Tragic story here just a couple of days ago reminds me of how horrific these situations can become. Is there a friend that would allow your son to stay there. He is at a very difficult age to move. He has somewhat of a support system in place with his friends and you are threatening to take that away from him.

Leave mom completely out of the equation, that is not a situation you want to move to. What would you do?

J, you wrote "If I do that ( see a divorce lawyer, you mean?) I’m deciding to stay. Either we have to move together or not at all because he will want to make me miserable."

I think you are bundling too many decisions here, without a need to. I used to do that, too. It was a symptom of a very, very deep clinical depression.

I'm going to suggest a framework here.

1. Discuss this whole decision with your therapist. Don't make any irrevocable decisions re: moving in haste.

2. Make an appointment to see a divorce attorney. By yourself. Find out what your rights are. Especially regarding leaving the marital home. Also what you could expect to be awarded in child support and maintenance. Also what legal remedies exist if he tries to make you miserable.

3. Consider scheduling a trip to see your mom to assess the situation. Before you go, read up on agnosnosia, which is a condition in which people r on't realize they are declining cognitively.

4. Find Teepa Snow on YouTube. She has wonderful techniques for dealing with dementia patients.

Good luck! Please let us know how things are going. We care.

Seems like moving is going to accelerate your potential (probable?) divorce. What is the plan for helping? Splitting up 24/7/365 caregiving with your sister, including some unknown bit of help from your brother and sister-in-law? What happens if your sister can no longer handle Mom? Will Mom be moving in with you?