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Some posters say appointing more than one person as POA is a mistake, because it creates conflict among siblings that share the POA. In your opinion, why do some parents appoint more than one person and do you think it’s asking for trouble? Is it ever appropriate?

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I think some do it to give a sense of equality of "love" or fairness to their children, and do it so that there's a counterbalance of opinions and some so that no one child has to bear the emotional or admin burden by themselves.

My hubs and his brother (2 out of 3 bros) were made PoA for my MIL. They were the only 2 local to her. It has never been a problem because they discuss everything very diplomatically, honestly, timely and thoroughly AND there's no power struggle over real or perceived money or inheritances (because there is none), no control issues. Their mom was a sweet, loving person (who chose a jerk for a 2nd husband). They had a healthy understanding of the role of PoA from the start.

I have 3 sons. Right now the youngest is only 22 and is not a PoA and we explained to him why and he accepts this. But this may change as he gets older an he also knows this. Our PoA arrangement will be reviewed every few years to adjust for changes in willingness, maturity, location, wisdom, etc. And we make sure to have very thorough conversations with our sons about the role and our expectations. Still, this is no guarantee that things won't go sideways, but all we can do is what we've done.

I think the "trouble" that happens comes from power and money struggles, lack of understanding of the role of PoA, immaturity/insecurities, complicated family history, mistrust, wrong motives, petty jealousy, stress, burden, etc. It's a shame that it happens but people are complicated beings and many people can barely manage their own lives well, no less someone else's.
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NeedHelpWithMom Jul 2021
Thanks. It’s great that your husband and his brother are agreeable. It is sad when complications arise. I guess people don’t think there will be issues when they appoint two for the same POA. How are these situations settled among siblings? Everyone suffers, the parents and the siblings.
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My mom's POA for finance and healthcare were both worded "jointly and severally" (as are mine). Since we were a family that got along this was never a problem and it gave us the reassurance that if one of us wasn't available for whatever reason the other could automatically step in.

And I doubt most people around here have ever even heard of a "springing" POA, I was able to lend a hand to mom with her business dealings decades before she became incapacitated. As far as I know that is something that you would have to specifically request from your lawyer, and if you were that distrustful of the person(s) you are appointing I have to wonder why you are choosing them at all.
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cwille,

Ahhh, okay. So, two are listed in case one person wouldn’t be available. That makes sense.

No, I hadn’t heard the term ‘springing.’

Thanks for info.
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Springing POAs are mentioned frequently on the forum NHWM, in fact many, many posters seem to believe that they are the only kind available. With that type of POA there must be an event that triggers the POA to come into effect, and with the gradual decline of dementia often people find it difficult to "spring" the POA.
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It’s helpful to know all of the terminology, cwille.

My daughters do get along but the youngest one moved several states away. I hope that wouldn’t become an issue.

Families don’t always stay living in the same area anymore. My daughter absolutely loves Denver. I don’t see her coming back to Louisiana. She has a great job there and she likes the change of seasons.
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For my Mom, out of 3 kids, I lived in the same town. One brother 8 hrs away the other, didn't seem interested. Mom had no back up. I was financial and medical.

I have an immediate financial for nephew because he can't handle money. But his Medical is Springing. Only can use when he is not able to make decisions.

I am going to have mine done and will ask the Lawyer what he thinks is best. My daughters both live in the same town. I think they could work together but one is stronger in the finance end the other, RN, is stronger in the medical end.
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NeedHelpWithMom Jul 2021
Thanks. I will have to consult with an attorney too, JoAnn. Your nephew is blessed to have you looking out for him.
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I appointed my niece as POA and brother second on the list. Mom is all set and niece and brother take over if I am unable.
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I think aging parents appoint more than one person as POA because they don't want to seem unfair or like they're showing preference to one adult child over another.
If people only knew. It's no great honor to have someone's POA and have to make their decisions. I wish I never had it for my father because I was the one responsible for cleaning up the mess and I'm still cleaning it and he's been dead for almost three years.
I don't think it's a good idea to have more than one person as POA or conservator. Two or more people can't agree on the weather or will argue over what toppings to order on a pizza.
Imagine what it's like when property has to be liquidated into cash assets and bank accounts spent down because someone needs placement in a care facility. More than one person can't decide. Taking care of all the bill paying and doing things like cancelling credit cards and closing bank accounts for a person would be an absolute nightmare if two or more people had to legally sign off on it getting done. It's hard enough to get cooperation from a bank or credit card company when one person is trying to. More than one, it will never get done.
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NeedHelpWithMom Jul 2021
I agree, I think parents are concerned about being ‘fair’ to all of their children. It can become a complicated mess though. It is a headache for those children who have to deal with all of the responsibility.
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Initially I drafted mine with DD2 as primary and DD1 with my son together, sharing responsibility. I have just changed it to list DD2, son then DD1.

My fear was DD1 trying to take control. She still may, but actually I hope the three of them can work together very closely and collaboratively.

My mom's POA did the same and knew there would be a problem. She based her decision on who was most active and present in her life. That was TS2, at that time. Mom did not want TS2 anywhere near decision making knowing what would happen. So the documents stated TS2, me then TS1. What mom did not realize was how manipulative and vindictive and narcissistic TS1 can be. And never thought how TS1 could influence TS2. What a nightmare that was! And how easily influenced TS2 is by TS1. She always just wanted everyone to get along. And did not want to become a target of TS2. Well, mom that did not work at all, did it.
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gladimhere Jul 2021
Mom did not want TS1 anywhere near decision making. Sometimes, swear this site or my device changes things to what it thinks is correct.

And TS2 did not want to become a target of ts1.

Mom had asked auntie dearest to do it, knowing...... But AD had responsibility for grandma and did not want another.

Now is that all clear as mud?
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I’m POA and MPOA and brother is back up for MPOA, it just made sense to do it this way since my dad lives with me and I should always be present to make medical decisions. As time goes on though I’m so glad it’s this way because my brother is a great guy but he doesn’t get how limited my dad’s quality of life is, and he’d be quick to sign up out of guilt due to past relationships issues for measures my dad doesn’t want (feeding tube, for example, or aggressive treatment for pneumonia) that I, living it every day, would not. I think with multiple siblings it really should be the one closest to the situation. I’m so glad I can make decisions without needing him to agree (although so far I have discussed everything with him and we HAVE been in agreement).
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Yes, I do think it's asking for trouble. My husband's durable POA for his dad lists him as primary and, should he ever become unavailable, one of his brothers is secondary. But that brother cannot go around my husband and just take over. Playing to strengths is one thing, being co-POA for medical and/or financial to spread the love is unnecessarily burdensome.
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My mom appointed the sibling with a healthcare background to be MPOA, and the sibling with an MBA to be the POA. Mom was moved to live with, then near, the MPOA. So the MPOA did end up being the person who had to organize a lot of the things Mom couldn't handle anymore when we realised how her day to day living had collapsed (like having her on the phone call to various entities to change her address or cancel accounts), and then the MPOA handed the paperwork over to the POA, but this suits our capabilities.
I'm the MPOA, and am glad not to have to hassle with her taxes, etc. For signing her into the AL---it would have been easier to have it 'all-in=one'', but since the internet allowed us to easily share and sign documents it wasn't too bad. The POA wannts nothing to do with managing the day to day care.
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NeedHelpWithMom, I think whether it's a good or bad idea to give multiple people your POA depends on your confidence in both persons to always act in your best interest as well as in each person's ability and willingness to work with the other POA agent(s). In my own experience, I've seen a team of multiple POAs (with "or" between their names) work well together for one "principal" (my mom) and a few years later become dysfunctional as POAs for a different principal (my dad).
 
Putting an "and" between POA names is another way to have multiple POAs, which might be okay or even good if you have complete confidence that each POA agent will always work well with the other agent(s), but you don't have complete confidence that each POA agent always has steady judgment, e.g. when facing a crisis or just making hard decisions. Obviously, appointing multiple POA agents with "and" between their names has the potential to create unnecessary headaches for decisions to be made or even for paying bills and managing accounts, so you might want to think about what could go wrong before doing it that way.
 
Based on what you've posted, it looks like you have two daughters with whom you are confidant to act in your best interest if you name either or both of them as your POA(s). I suggest talking to them (maybe a conference call) to discuss this topic. Also, on www.agingcare.com website there's a section on Elder Law with several articles on POA that you and your daughters might find helpful.
 
FYI, when my youngest daughter with Down's Syndrome became an adult, my wife and I decided to have our two older daughters, as well as both of us, named as her co-guardians. As such, any one of us can act on behalf of our youngest daughter regarding any issue, e.g. medical, financial, or whatever. This works well for us and if anything happens to any (but not all) of us, our youngest daughter will seamlessly still have a guardian.
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NeedHelpWithMom Jul 2021
Very sensible. My good friend is one of seven children. Her younger sister has Downs. My friend is her caregiver. Their parents died many years ago. Her other sister was the caregiver for awhile, it didn’t work out for a variety of reasons. Things were complicated in her family for quite awhile, but they have worked it all out.

My friend’s sister with Downs is a miracle. The doctor didn’t expect her to live as long as she has. She is 51 years old now. She was extremely high functioning and a joyful person before developing dementia, She lost most of her verbal skills. She doesn’t walk anymore. She is in a wheelchair. At one time, she stopped eating. She is eating again.

My friend does have help with her care. She looks at my friend as her second mom because she was always the closest to her. Her mom used to volunteer at her daughter’s special needs school. My friend and her mom volunteered during the summertime, they would take the children on wonderful trips, Dollywood and Disney World, etc. My friend has terrific memories of those trips. They chartered a bus and took a fabulous trip every year.
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I'm the Trustee and have both medical and financial POA. My older brother has no power, per se, but I keep him updated on everything and have the power when it's needed because it makes things easier.

We made the difficult decision together to stop my mom's remaining medications last week, but I talked it over with him before giving the order. If he'd have had any concerns, we'd have worked it out together first.

The "one person in charge" system works well for us, because my folks had a few issues with my brother's way of handling money, plus I have the time while he's still working full-time. Most important, though, is that it prevents any conflicts with the medical or financial people we deal with. It's very clear who's in charge and makes the decisions, and that prevents issues with one POA telling them something, and the other telling them something else.

A POA is ONE job that can be held by more than one person, not multiple jobs held by multiple people who all get to put in their two cents' worth. It's just easier to name one person.
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NeedHelpWithMom Jul 2021
That’s fantastic that it has worked out well. I think it depends on the individual family members and particular situations.
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My dad was going to make one of my older brothers POA over finances. but decided not to when he heard he was going to charge everyone in the family rent.
I think if he had POA we would all be thrown out into elderly housing or something. He advised not too long ago that mom and I should sell the house and move to elderly housing. I told him no way, mom wil stay right in her own home. I think he was thinking about his inheritance, but you what there really won't be much of an inheritance. I am spending it all on my mother.
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NeedHelpWithMom Jul 2021
Good for you! That money is for your mom.
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When I was preparing my POA documents, the lawyer said it is best to either have one POA and a back up, or an either or, but not both if you want to assign more than one.

If the POA is written that both have to agree, it can lead to delays in decision making. Or hang things up for a very long time.
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MJ1929 Jul 2021
Exactly this! ^^^

My folks' attorney said that this is not the time to worry about hurt feelings but to choose someone who they felt would best handle the responsibility. I'm not the oldest, but my parents believed I would do the job better than my brother, mostly because I have more time than he does.

My in-laws chose their eldest child, my sister-in-law, who was the absolute worst of their seven kids to pick. She's a dingbat with no concept of how to handle money and thinks holistic medicine and eating weeds and bushes is the way to good health. (She's had cancer and Lyme disease in spite of that lifestyle, but OK. Her cancer spread because she didn't go to a doctor for a year, so I guess the herbs and incense didn't work so well after all.)

Fortunately, my MIL is completely able to handle her own affairs for now. Her youngest son lives with her and keeps an eye on everything for her, but I sure hope she changed her POA and named him instead.

A power of attorney is not akin to giving your kids the farm or a piece of jewelry. It's a job with significant responsibility and should be granted to the person most qualified to handle that responsibility. Sometimes it shouldn't even be a family member.
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Well NHWM,
Maybe my situation was different. My mother gave POA to older brother who contributed nothing as far as helping. He had both medical & unlimited financial DPOA.

This power went to his head & he told me “I have POA…..I have control!” He thought this gave him the right to control how & when others would help my mom.

It turned him into a controlling, greedy & spiteful person when we we once very close. He controlled who she saw & spoke to for the last 4 years of her life.
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NeedHelpWithMom Jul 2021
And this is when situations become a nightmare! It’s really hard to cope in these situations as a caregiver.

No one wants to deal with a control freak. Relationships with siblings can become destroyed in certain situations. Sometimes they work out in the end, but not always. Sometimes, it remains complicated.
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Appointing more than 1 POA for an area (financial or medical) is asking for trouble because they need to agree on every decision. If they disagree, it can cause confusion on how to proceed with one person potentially countermanding another's directions. It would be best to appoint 1 person as primary POA for medical and another for financial. Another option is appoint one person as primary POA for everything and another person as secondary, in case the primary can not function as a POA.
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My parents made me their sole POA - durable for financial and medical - it's durable and was effective when they signed it. They didn't give it to me for several years until they were wanting me to be of assistance to them. I told them I would make no major decisions without discussing with them as long as they were able to give input. I too am unfamiliar with "springing" POAs. Dad has since died but I'm still following the practice of discussing major decisions with mom. I will always try and do what is in mom's best interest - which may not always be what she wishes - but as I previously wrote as long as she is competent we will discuss first.

My husband's mother had middle son as POA - and this was to my knowledge fine with the other two - I know it was with my husband. When it came to major decision - middle son didn't just make the decision - both brothers and wives were included to provide opinions. It worked well for their mother.

Naming my brother and I as co-POAs would never have worked for several reasons - lets just leave it at that. I make a point to keep bro in the loop of changes in our parents/now mom's lifel

If co-POAs are named, I believe the parents need to know if their children can work out differences and work cooperatively. If they know their children don't work well together then they need to choose who they trust to follow their wishes - or the spirit of their wishes. If they put oil and water together hoping to get them to work together, then they are courting disaster.

These are legal documents and these decision need to be made without emotion (or with as little emotion as possible). Parents should know the strength of their children and who would be best suited to which duties. If one of none of the children are capable of the duties of POA then the parents should look elsewhere.

Being POA is not to be used as power over others in the family. In my case the POA was activated when they signed the document - it didn't mean I had power over my parents or that I could make any decision I wanted - my parents, as long as competent, could revoke and reissue POAs. While competent they can make their own decisions which could go against what I decided (one reason I discuss decisions with mom). As POA there is a fiduciary duty to the principal.

I don't know if this helps or not.
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See this by the American Council on Aging

https://www.medicaidplanningassistance.org/power-of-attorney/

It gives an explanation for the varied POA's, includes Springing POA.
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NeedHelpWithMom Jul 2021
Thank you! I do get confused. I will read it. If we only had one child there wouldn’t be a concern, but I have two daughters.
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I have 2 brothers. One in PA. One in NC and I am in SC. All 3 of our names are on the POA. I am so glad. I moved my mom to SC. So if ever anything would happen to me. Heaven forbid...either of my brothers could step in and just take over. Otherwise it would be a mess. My 2 brothers have always supported me. Unless you have siblings that are gonna question your every move....I recommend this. Mom is in MC now soon to be placed in a NH.
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TaylorUK Jul 2021
How nice it is to read about a group of siblings who clearly have Mum's welfare and can reach agreement on the best for her as opposed to having their own view and not working together. Kudos to you and your brothers for selfless care of Mum.
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For my brother in law his sister and her daughter became his POA of medical does this give them the right to change his medicines? He has headache pills prescribed by a doctor and they won't give them to him. They keep giving 1000mgs of tylenol every time he has a headache sometimes as much as 3000mgs a day. I said to the daughter it can kill his liver she says to me everything kills the liver.

How they got POA is he was in the hospital for appendix they decided he needed it so they got the paperwork notarized by a notary without him being there, the notary was not present to see him sign it and the witnesses didn't see him sign the document. Is the document legal?

Its just a fight for his care they don't know how to feed a diabetic they don't know how to feed someone who has heart disease and they won't take any advice from someone who does and has dealt with it for over 30 yrs.

They want to keep him happy and comfortable but this is killing him.

Does a POA give them the right to keep him prisoner in his own home that he can't go out walking by himself? Does a POA give them the right to put up ring doorbell cameras in his home without his knowledge there is one in his kitchen and one in his bedroom and if you are thinking they can see everything in that bedroom you are right.

How can this be stopped without them knowing who turned them in because then they will take it out on him? It just sickens me that they are doing this to get at his finances.
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TaylorUK Jul 2021
Technically (if you were in the UK) this most certainly would not be legal, and I very much doubt it is in the US.
I would seek advice from an elder lawyer, we would be able to ask the Court of Protection to look into the POA and they would interview/question the holders of the POA and set aside if they were not happy - and boy do they have to be happy.

On the matter of the Tylenol for your father's headaches - he is an elderly gentleman and it is unlikely that 3000mg which is less than the full standard dose is going to cause him any relevant harm. However they should be aware that if they are giving these to him on a very regular basis they do have the side effect of causing rebound headache in some people- i.e. people get headaches because they are taking them, and if they stop. They are not suitable medication for long term treatment of headache.

Whether POA gives them the rights to do the other things would in the UK depend on what had been written into the POA. If they have concerns for his safety then under medical POA I would expect them to have the right to do what they consider necessary, be it cameras or walks. I don't know what US POAs are available, but I would suggest you consult an elder lawyer to discuss this and your concerns, the legality and potential actions.
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I think it is essential that more than one person is named on a POA - what if something happens to that person.
However there are options
You can appoint people jointly and severally so either one or both have to be involved in decisions - which can still cause problems both ways.
OR you can have a named reserve person who can take over in the case of the named POA becoming unable to act.
Either way this is something siblings need to discuss and then the person making the POA has to decide. It is the choice of the person appointing someone to act for them that will matter at the end of the day, but personally I do think it is advisable for all siblings to discuss the possibilities before a decision is made.
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its just my sister and me. We are both POAs but we tend to agree on the care my mom needs. I think it works when the siblings are in sync with their parents care. I don’t think either one of us would want the sole responsibility.
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Well I can only speak from my experience. My dad appointed both me and my sister as his POAs. He knew we lived nearest and we are very close so it worked well especially if one was traveling the other could step in?My sister was an R.N. So she was very helpful when it came to his medical decisions and navigating Medicare. We would divide up some of the tasks that dealt with financials and it really helped when it came time to settle his estate.. Even though I did the lion share of daily care and tasks because he lived in my city and she was 300 miles away, it helped to have her do some of the tasks. We are both in our late 60’s to 70 when dad was alive and when he died so it was conceivable that one of us could have died before him.
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Well, let me tell you about my situation with more than one POA. My mother has 2 children. I have a brother (lives in PA) & I am in SC. After my mom's 2nd husband passed away, she decided to change her will & all other documents that had his name on. She had called me & said that nothing would be changed for at least 1 year. Lo & behold - 3 months later she calls me & said that she has put my name, my brother & his wife as POAs & will send me copy of documents. Fine, that was her decision. My brother & I were not close at all but tolerated each other. I would send birthday cards, Christmas gifts & call on occasions. He didn't. Anyway, I noticed our mother repeating things & suggested going to doctor. Even tried to talk about what to do with mom in preparation for funeral one day. He wouldn't discuss it. Anyway, I even asked his wife to let me know how things were going & if I needed to come up & take her to dr. I would make a visit to mom at least twice a year. She refused to visit me & hasn't in 25 years. Well, my brother passed away & my mom took my brother off her will within 3 wks & guess who she added? My sister-in-law!! Crazy. After 2 years I noticed my mom was repeating alot & asking the same question over & over. Decided to go & stay with her for a week. It was horrible. Her condition, both physically & mentally. She would get up, put on same clothes & never wash or even comb her hair. She was merely 90 lbs! It was so heartbreaking. And not once did my SIL call or stop by. She lives 10 minutes away. So my husband & I decided she had to come live with us. I know I had alot to do but many years ago, I promised my mother she would not be put in a nursing home. Luckily her bills were all on auto draft so they were getting paid. Before we brought her to live with us, we went to her bank. That was another shocker. My SIL name was on her checking & savings accounts. I was horrified as she had access to everything. Well that all had to be changed also.
So much to think about & do, but we did it. My mother looks so much better, weighs 115, eating 3 meals a day, gets daily shower & clean clothes every day. We take her out to eat with us & gets daily exercise. Grant it - she doesn't know who I am anymore as she us in Stage 5 of ALZ but I am trying to give her the best life I can while I can. So, I really think everyone's situation is different. More than one POA may work for some while others it can destroy everything. Luckily, I jumped in to take over my mom's life or she would possibly be dead. She has now lived with me for almost 2 years. She is 91 1/2. Best decision ever! Thx for reading my post. Bless you! Good luck
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Malanna Jul 2021
Your Mom does have a wonderful daughter and family!
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I appointed both my children (sons) because they bring different views and perspective and I thought both their approaches should inform the decision about me. I also set it that no decision could be made without mutual agreement. I realize that it risks conflict BUT so does appointing just one. I made provision in my POA for tiebreakers. But I instructed them I much prefer that they come to a mutually agreeable decision.
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NeedHelpWithMom Jul 2021
This is true. They can agree or disagree either way. Thanks for your response.
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Experience has taught me this: no matter who has POA or who all has POA. If siblings do not get along, there are unresolved issues from childhood or one is caretaker and the other is POA, there WILL be issues.

If I knew then, what I know now, I would have declined being POA and mom's care taker. The only other sibling lived out of town and has been irrational over the years and we are both educated professionals.

It has been everything from demands with running day to day operations, calling the police on me and calling APS on me.

All of this, with caring for mom who has dementia has taken a toll on my emotional health. I am sure the long term health will occur too.

Please walk into your decision informed and realistically. No one ever fights over a sick parent but anyone will fight over a "Potential Inheritance"
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SusanHeart Jul 2021
I am so sorry you are having to deal with this stress Barb and feel your pain.
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I guess more than one is suggested in case one of those POA's would pass away before the other one. It also depends on the family dynamic. Both my brother and I are POA's for our mother (was for our dad but he passed in 2020 NOT from the virus). Even though we are 10 years apart in age, we discuss things and decide together how things should be handled. Even though I do most of the stuff due to him being about an hour away, we always discuss. NOW..........if families do not get along, then either the parent should get the one most responsible to be the POA or assign that task to someone they know they can trust. It can cause problems even IF one person is selected.....what if the parent favors one child over the other but maybe the least favorite is the one that is more responsible......who knows, its up to the parents to make the choice. I have seen it happen where the parents change things and it still creates problems cause maybe the one they choose is more greedy. The parent has to know what is best and sometimes that is not always the best. Wishing you luck IF you are in this situation.
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jacobsonbob Jul 2021
My parents made my sister the POA for financial, etc. and I was the POA for medical, as well as the "backup" for my sister. Our strengths tend to be somewhat the opposite of our assignments, but I was available to help with the financial issues, so we essentially worked as a team. My sister worked for a long time in a medical clinic years ago, but my father felt I should have medical POA because, as he told me. that "I would be much less emotional about 'pulling the plug' " if the situation with either of our parents got to that point.
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My brother and I are not the closest, but since we have everything in a trust for my mom, things are certainly easier. I have the POA as I pay the bills and take care of her errands, bring her to the Drs, take her shopping etc. She lives in assisted living and I live closest to her as well. My brother takes care of the finances in relation to the trust. But any major decisions we usually talk about it before we need to make it.
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