Can my sister come after us for financial assistance for Mom?

Some 30 states (including California) currently have laws making adult children responsible for their parents' care. It won't be your sister coming after you, it will be the NH suing and winning payment for care. I think it would be cheaper to send your sister 10% of your pay, rather than a collection agency taking your house.

Ooooo dear. I'm not sure you won't want a more sympathetic audience than you might get here, but my instinctive reaction is to ask "why does she have to 'come after you'?" Is your concern for your mother based on how often you're allowed to see her, or whether she sends appreciative little thank you notes?

As a matter of fact, I do accept your point of view: that if your sister wants to throw herself on the alter of caring for darling mama then that's her business; that you are not and shouldn't be held responsible for your mother's decisions; that people who are asking for favours would be wise to be a little more gracious about it. The difficulty is that you're talking to people who are bruised and battered from the reality of 24/7 care for elders - it does nothing for our manners or our tempers, and I imagine the same thing goes for your sister. Be as generous as you can.

WHAT??? D*mn you, spellcheck, d*mn you - "altar" I mean, of course.

First sorry to learn your sister is restricting visits with your mother. I don't think legally a child can be forced to pay for the care of their elder parent. Some countries do require it but the USA does not codify payment by children.

Now I do think if your sister is the primary care giver, a meeting should be held to figure out how much money is required each month for mom to live at home. The sister has to be able to leave home and have someone a companion or home health aide stay with mom to make sure she is safe. That isn't "free" so money will be needed. Also what type of retirement plan, ss, medicare (medicare part b or d fees) does mom have. Once someone is disabled many thing medical equipment, canes, walkers, hospital beds, bed rails and on and on is needed some paid by medicare but most not covered. Expect to pay in the neighborhood of $500 to $1000 a month on the things needed which are not covered, and insurance costs.

Yet all of the at home costs pale in comparison to what it costs to care for the person in a NH. Most people are not able to pay for it but the cost is shifted to the public by Medicaid. NH are not crazy about having Medicaid patients as they are not able to charge the individual the higher rates for care. Basically Medicaid patients are given charity care. Not the retirement most have or would have planned for themselves.

I would see if the 3 children could come up with a monthly dollar amount to cover mom's needs. If mom has savings for a rainy day, it is raining and the funds need to make her days comfortable.

Good luck. Taking care of an elder is costly, it just is.

moms1of6 pegstegman is correct in stating it could be the state; however, you should call California's medicare ombudsman for more information. Googling Peg's information, she is correct that California has that law but I also read that rarely do they come after the children. States' budgets are changing rapidly causing new actions needed.

Dementia is such a fooler. I have and am going through that experience and only a brain scan reveals how far along the patient is. I'm not sure what your sister knows about dementia but it gets ugly. Please be thankful that she is doing this for now. Your mom, in her next stages, could turn on her. You never mentioned mom's age.

That being said, owning a home still brings on costs. Beg to differ over home costs being cheaper as older homes do require upgrades. Roofs, electrical, plumbing and elder upgrades are quite pricey. If your mom lives in a newer home, then all should be good. This is not what I have experienced.

Please consider this. Our society is pushing to live longer. Unfortunately, as medicine has provided this, it was never realized that their success has created new issues for the aging that are in the process of being addressed -- the costs, the environment they live in and how can they be cared for. If you have some dollars you can spare, please consider helping. But only you can decide that. Folks living off of minimum wages or even $15.00, with benefits (or without), can hardly afford to take care of themselves let alone their parents. And there is the need for all of you to be putting money away for your own elder care if you are reaching that age.

Keep us posted about what you hear about California, please.

I don't know anything about this but the responses are alarming. If I were forced to pay for my elderly parents care I would soon be indigent myself. Our income is very modest. We make enough to get by on.. thats it. The idea that a state can cause children to loose their home over paying for parents medical care is appalling.
Your story makes me sad. I'm sorry your sister is keeping you from seeing your Mom.

This post really scared me so I did some research. In my state we do have filial responsibility laws but they are very vague and open ended. Basically it says that children of "sufficient means" can be ordered to help support their elderly parents if that parent is deemed unable to support and maintain themselves. It would be up to a court to decide the particulars but from what I am reading the parent does need to be poor. They can sometimes own a home because they do need shelter however.

I don't know what the standards are for the children to be of sufficient means nor could I find out just how much the children would be asked to pay.

If you have the means and decide to help your Mom out I would not just hand money over to your sister, perhaps you could assume some of the grocery shopping or bill paying. If it were me I would also look further into visitation. Has you sister given you any reason WHY your visits are upsetting to your Mom? Have you seen evidence of this yourself?

Is Mom on Medicaid? If she cannot afford to support herself with her own assets and income, that is the option to consider.

Is your unwillingness to contribute to Mom's finances based on your own financial inability, your belief that Mom does not/should not need financial help, your conflicts with your sister, your relationship with your mother, or ??

Things would certainly go more smoothly if you and your siblings could discuss an overall plan for Mother and have some basic agreements in place.

Wow .. if u have money support financially what you seem unwilling to do yourself ..I would choose the writing of a check over the care of someone with dementia anyday ...count ur blessings that she is willing and don't expect a thank you from her she probably dosent get one from you for the sacrifices she making ....

Honestly I would spend some money on an elder attorney and see just what the laws are and just what you are responsible for. I would also let sister know that if she wants money then unlimited visitation comes with that. Sis can't have it both ways. If you and your brother are helping to pay for things then you and your brother should have a say in your mom's care and how money is spent on mom - assuming you want that. Money you give her should be exclusively for your mom's care or respite care so your sister can have a break unless you give your sis a break and watch mom when she needs it.

I have my MIL living with us. My Husband is an only child so we don't have to deal with siblings. She had a stroke 18 mos ago but also has Dementia, Psychosis, high anxiety disorder, and clinical depression. For now we are caring for her and I am her POA. Even with that I am not required to fund her care from my private assets. (but I'm not in CA). We just had my FIL pass away from similar dementia etc in a nursing home so this isn't my first time down this road. I am a big supporter in lets find the best care for a parent and that doesn't always mean at home with family. I know for me once my MIL can't bath herself, toilet herself, starts to roam etc then I will be looking for a nursing home for her where professionally trained staff can give her the care she deserves to have.

I have an elder attorney that keeps me on track legally because with the Omama Care plan that still is in flux things can change monthly - so well worth the money. There are lots of agencies out there that can assist with lots of care items that are covered by Medicare, you just have to have to apply for them on your mothers behalf (if she has been declared incompetent). I actually get a few times a year grant money to help pay for Adult Day Care expenses from one of the local agencies in my area. Just received $1300 to pay for 2 months worth of care. Also because her income is just SS to live on there are lots of assistance programs out there to help pay for groceries, etc. but they have to be applied for and many folks don't want "charity" etc.

Is your sister Legally the POA or legal guardian (court would have to have been involved for guardianship) and if so has the POA been activated with a doctors note? If not then technically your mother is still considered to be responsible for herself and can still sign documents etc. That should be put in place before mom gets any worse.

In the end my feeling is if you are giving money then you should have a say as to what to do with mom, be able to visit anytime you want (even without money), and if sis doesn't like that then she can take full responsibility both financially and physically.

Pam is correct. Your sister may try on her own to force you to pay. But, you should be more concerned if it's Medicaid or the nursing home. More and more states are passing what is called the "filial responsibility law."

Many states have filial responsibility laws that make children responsible for their parents’ medical care, however these laws are rarely enforced.

*Filial Responsibility Laws
More than half of the states have “filial responsibility” laws that make adult children responsible for their parents’ medical care, if their parents can’t pay. These rules do not apply when a patient qualifies for Medicare – in that case, the Medicare system pays.

However, if a patient can’t pay for care received before qualifying for Medicare, filial responsibility laws could require the patient’s child or children to pay. Most filial responsibility laws take an adult child’s ability to pay into account.

These laws are generally designed to minimize the parent’s burden on the state’s welfare system. Most allow any long-term care providers to sue family members for payment, but others make failing to care for a parent a criminal offense.

*Generally Not Enforced
Most states that have filial responsibility laws don’t enforce them, here’s why: Most elders who can’t pay for care receive federal assistance through Medicaid, and federal law specifically prohibits going after adult children. Also, most folks who need help paying for nursing home care qualify for Medicaid and it’s unusual for someone to rack up a large bill before qualifying. So, because there is so little opportunity to apply filial responsibility laws, they very rarely affect families.

*In most states, for a child to be held accountable for a parent’s bill, all of these things would have to be true:
- The parent received care in a state that has a filial responsibility law.
- The parent did not qualify for Medicaid when receiving care.
- The parent does not have the money to pay the bill.
- The child has the money to pay the bill.
- The caregiver chooses to sue the child.

* A Rare Case
Although, in practice, these laws rarely cause children have to pay for their parents’ bills, a 2012 Pennsylvania appeals court ruled that an adult son of a nursing home resident would have to pay his mother’s $93,000 nursing home bill based on the Pennsylvania filial responsibility law.

This is a rare case because
1) the mother made just enough money through a pension not to qualify for Medicaid, and
2) the court allowed a private institution to sue the son, whereas filial responsibility laws are generally designed to empower the state to recover payments to reduce the burden on welfare. While this is an unusual case, some practitioners wonder if rising care costs will cause more cases like this to surface.

With that said, if I had the option to send my father to a nursing home, I would sure love to have the NH go after my siblings to pay for it. I would be overlooked since I supplied the manual labor, and the day-to-day expenses (pampers, wipes, toilet tissues, Depends pampers, etc...) Since my siblings don't help physically or financially, it would be great if the NH went after them and not me (being seen as easy picking.)

I agree with Countrymouse. I'm not sure why sis has to come after you for anything. I can assure you that caring for an elderly parent or loved one 24/7 is not easy, and if all you are being asked to do is help financially now and then, you are coming out on the easy end of the deal. True enough, for me, I am here because I want to be and I am not planning on going anywhere, God willing, but I have lost everything I ever worked for attempting to care for my Mom and while I would do it again, when I received the papers informing me the bank was about to foreclose on me, the only response I got from my sibling was "gee I hate to hear that"....all the while they don't miss a beat at anything, living a high life, rarely bringing anything, including meager supplies. The one time I attempted to address it I was blown out of the water about my "d*mn" cats, how sorry I felt for myself, etc. etc.......so there is, in addition to no financial help for "OUR" mother, there is no appreciation either and it is the latter which hurts. I don't know your particular situation, background, dynamics, etc. but could be your sister is so worn out and exhausted and fed up with the lack of appreciation then seeing you pop in for a visit here and there is even inflammatory. I know I was that way for a long time and while I never told them not to come, as I believe that is wrong as well, I did hate to see them coming for their once a month visit, for all of an hour or two, just having a good old time and then they were gone again...their guilt relieved apparently. Oh, I forget the part about the commentary about how i have let the house go, let myself go, blah blah blah..sorry, as you can tell this is a touchy issue for me....it's best to work together...and makes for some hurt feelings all around when their is no cooperation. And it is best for our loved ones if we work together...if we are able to....

I will have to google this also, I am surprised. First of all Moms1of6, does your Mom have any assets, SS, cd's etc? You should consult an elder attorney because your Moms money should be used first for her care, including paying your sister for caregiving, even if she doesnt need it all for medical care. I have gone through all the dementia stages with my mom and also all of her assets,and now my husband is supporting us other than my moms monthly ss/va which I use to respite and diapers/etc. I think a trip to a lawyer is in order. If your sister is like some of us, she may never place her Mom into a nursing home and will need financial and emotional support for a very long time. Taking good care of a parent at home means they live many long years my Moms doctor said. No way in H*** would my siblings ever help at all, financially or otherwise. Is your sister the DPOA/H?

You should be more gracious and help your sister with at least finances if nothing more. The physical and emotional toll of caring for the elderly is devastating, creating resentments toward siblings who don't / or won't help. In every family the burden is taken up by one compassionate adult child while the rest of the siblings watch and make comments. I'm in a similar situation and my advice to you is to help in any way you can because you have it easy. Put yourself in your sister's shoes and be more compassionate. Follow the Golden Rule. Would you like your children to treat you the way you're treating your mother? They are watching your example. Good luck!

IMO, your question should not have been posted on this site. It is for caregivers -- people like your sister -- whether she is right or wrong. If she is wrong, this crew of caregivers would surely tell her so. You write that when your sister asks for money that you don't send anything. For YOUR mother?! That's like the father who doesn't pay child support but demands visitation rights. He may have legal entitlements, but what about his morality? When the mother who is attending to the child's every needs 24/7 has to ASK for financial assistance, why should she say, "Thank you?" The father should be thanking her. You still don't get it? Well that's a huge part of what care giving is: role reversal. The child becomes the parent. You did not come to this site explaining that your finances were limited and asking what could you do to assist your sister, the caregiver. But this generous care giving membership tried to help anyway. That's what caregivers do. They selflessly go the extra mile. Think about your sister. Now who are you?

Tough situation, and like some of the others stated, it's terribly difficult caring for the relative with Dementia. I am sorry your sister is trying to restrict your access to your mom, I totally disagree, however, if you can afford to contribute to the care of your mom (not for your sister's sake but your mom) then maybe pay for a bill (directly pay it) or if you can speak to your sister maybe ask what she has in mind? Try to forget about a thank you note right now, because I am sure your sister is beyond overwhelmed right about now. I too am a caregiver along with one of my brother's, we both are doing everything we can for my mom. My bro contributes to pay some of her rent at the assisted living, and I cover the cost of phone/cable bills. We both contribute the time for med administration (to save her a little bit more money), and I give her a bath (again to save her a little more money, until we find a place a little more reasonable). It's exhausting work. I have an older brother who seldom contacts my mom but it would be great if he could contribute some money. The relationship with him is strained so I continue procrastinating contacting him. But I imagine he will not contribute at all. My heart goes out to you and your family.

Have to agree with some people here. You should be contributing financially to your mom's care since your sister is doing all the physical care. However, you should also be making sure you have access to your mom. If you are stirring her up, why is that? Are you arguing with her or not being as patient as you should. You should and deserve to be able to visit with your mom but you also need to understand her condition and when you see her it should be pleasant and loving for both of you. If you are concerned with your mom's finances then you need to politely without accusation, sit down with your sister and discuss it. If she sees you are really concerned with your mother and willing to help financially since you can't help physically, she may change her attitude. Sorry but I am an only child and I care for my mother alone with no help except wonderful support from friends. I also see friends struggle to care for elderly parents while their siblings visit only on holidays and proceed to criticize everything that they do and how their parent is being cared for. Then they go back to their lives and you don't see or hear from them until the next holiday. And on top of that they make a huge stink whenever the subject of financial support comes up. Very sad.

One HUGE thing to remember, until you have had a sibling and been in this situation personally, you simply cannot understand the dynamics of how bad it can get. For me, I have always been the one who had to handle everything. It is heartbreaking to know that someone I grew up with and love more than I love my own life could be so uncaring and selfish...you really can't believe it will happen to you, until it does.

Your sister is taking care of your Mother 24/7 and you are not contributing? Shame on you.

I would like to see a response from an attorney. I do not believe that any state can force children to impoverish themselves to care for a parent, but would appreciate verification.

Dr Chris look up "hcr vs pittas". Pennsylvania is at the forefront of collecting from children. What did Mr. Pittas in? He refused to disclose assets and the Judge took a very dim view of that.

Is your sister receiving money from the state of California to take care of your mom? If she is, I should think that would be sufficient. My in-laws lived in California. My sister-in-law received money for taking care of her mother, but her mother was living in my sister-in-law's house. My sister-in-law also cashed her mother's social security checks. If your sister is in a similar situation and doing the same thing, I don't see why you'd need to give her extra cash.

Interesting. Of course, this has the potential to open cans of worms all over the place. Children who have abusive parents who don't want a d**m think to do with them, having to pay for the oldsters upkeep? Where do you draw the line. Others with narcs who have no contact, and plan to keep it that way.
The over-riding concern, someone could have about 400,000 in retirement which, if frugally maintained, could support that person for a while. If the state comes in and demands upkeep, as mentioned earlier that person will also end up on a dole of sorts. (Perhaps the gubmint wants it that way in the end??) So what is gained. Gubmint creates two (or more) dependents whereas before there was only one or two.

What does Mom want? Is the money your sister is asking for, for your mother? Do you ever have alone time with mom, and if so what do you think about her mental status? Who is your mothers legal representative?
The extra money your sister is asking for could be for depends if your mom is incontinent, they are expensive. Do you feel your sister is doing what she needs to do to care for mom, or do you feel she is abusive is some manner? Maybe your sister is overwhelmed with caregiving duties she forgets to send a 'thank you'. If you have doubts, you can call a family meeting & discuss mom's condition and what each sibling can do to help out or you can contact your local Area Agency on Aging for information about caregiving and seniors. You can contact Adult Protective Services for info on what to look for if you feel something not quite right or you suspect abuse of some type. If you have the funds to help out, make sure you keep records in the event you would need them at some point in the future. If you don't have the funds to be able to help out, tell your sister. I find family meetings can be very helpful, it doesn't have to be long, it can be done in a different location and everyone who cares for mom can receive updates on her condition, care and needs.

OMG. I can't believe the way the OP is being blasted here. Perhaps her situation is like mine, where my husband and I were doing everything for my parents (Dad high-level

Sorry, hit button too soon) Dad with Alzheimer's and Mom crazy until my younger bro found out they had a few bucks (we did not know either) Anyway, as soon Hasbro found this out, Mom started accusing us of stealing (impossible, and we are not that kind of people). Last year Mom put Dad in a NH, where he is doing much better. How sad is that? My family is shattered because of my brother's lies and my mother's delusions and gullibility. So it is not always as simple as "they took care of you, so now it's your turn to take care of them". I have run into my bro from time too time at the MY and he notches about always being the one now to help Mom with stuff, but we offer constantly to help and he refuses. Mom refuses any sort of help too.l know that many of you would give anything for some help. I wish I could help you. I wish I could help my own Mom but she and my bro have made sure that won't happen. At least I can visit my Dad.

I just re read the OP because I was confused by the berating nature of a number of the answering posts. The OP left me with many questions but certainly not enough information to hazard judgement. There are so many different types of situations and circumstances out there...

Anyway, I knew nothing about the legalities of fillial responsibility before today. The topic was eye opening and from what I am reading online it's a complicated subject. One thing is clear, in most states with fillial responsibility laws, a persons first responsibility is to their own financial needs and that of their immediate family. The state cannot cause you to lose your own home to support your elderly parents.

Moms1of6, the simple answer to your question is NO. Your sister cannot force you. BUT the government or the nursing home can. It's that filial law that gives them the option.

As for your sister preventing you from seeing your mother, keep all emails that have her telling you this. It will be proof that you are not the one who chose not to visit but your sister, etc....

It has only happened once in Pennsylvania. Other states with filial laws have not so far done so. California has filial laws. Since these are state laws, states cannot impose these sanctions on children living in a different state from their parents. I doubt states will start utilitizing this archaic law, it would create such an uproar throughout this country with it's citizens insisting on repealing this law in the states that have them. No state imposes laws on parents to financially support their impoverished adult children, they are afforded social programs. The elderly have as much right to utilize social programs as the younger people of this country!

I think you posted to exactly the right place. When caring for your parents, you have to set aside your predispositions. Your mother is no longer the person who raised you. Your sister is under stress. It is time to get together as though this was a business, and map out a plan.

Use your mother's money to buy a burial arrangement. Check to be sure she has her social security and/or Medicaid applied for. She should qualify as disabled with MD's verification no matter what age.

Provide Money to support mother's care to your sister from your mother's money. At some point you will need to pay for care, so pay your sister. I just had an agency set up respite coverage for me to take a 3 night 4 day break. They estimated $1600. Four hours = $92. We did a month in assisted living last year and that was about $6-7000!

What I wish my family could do is switch out with me to care for Dad while I vacation for a week or two.... They know him. If you don't have money, consider staying with mom for a long weekend once a month or more. Or have mom stay with you. I am lucky, Dad has enough money to cover respite expense, but it would disappear fast if he had to pay for a facility. Then what???

So, your sister is buying you all time before stuff gets really expensive. And it is very hard work. You are living two lives when just your own was more than enough. With kids, they improve. With elderly and demented, it will just get worse.

Do not be critical of your sister's care, do not talk with mom about stuff she can no longer process. Thank goodness your sister is doing this. You may not have valued your sister before, start now.

Keep reading these posts, most people do not complain of hardship as much as they are experiencing that hardship. Even this site is "candy coated".