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End of May, My Father (who lives with us for 5 years) was hospitalized for human meta pneumonia virus (very contagious!) After 4 days in the hospital he was transferred to a rehabilitation facility to regain his strength & breathing.


I needed this 2 week break from him. Being his fulltime caregiver for 5+ years has exhausted me to a breaking point.


I found out this week that he's been telling his friends he wants to die!


Rehab wants to discharge my father on Friday morning. I'm not physically or emotionally ready for him to come back to my home yet. He's been in there 19 days on Friday. He has Medicare A, B & D along with Federal BCBS.


We caught him with 2 large empty Bourbon bottles in his room right before I dragged him to his Dr. which eventually led to him being sent to the ER for being so sick. He was buying it while out with his senior friends & hid it from us. We took his money & debit card away since he thought he had the right to do as he pleases. He's on 20 prescriptions. His Drs flipped out when I told them about his new drinking.


Help?? Can the rehab force me to take him home? I lied & said I had the flu when they called tonight. 😞 I'm so worn out & cry from the pain I'm in from this extra stress.

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Have you always owned those insurance policies? If dad changed the ownership on those in the past five years then Medicaid would likely consider them a gift. If that is the case Medicaid will likely have you redeem them for their cash value to be used for Dad's care. I am assuming they are whole life policies.
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Reply to gladimhere
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Thinking of you. I know you are exhausted with stress and worry about this situation.

I hope eerything is better for you soon.
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Reply to ACaringDaughter
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Very challenging situation. Sounds like you have a big case of burnout, not surprisingly. It's a good idea that you put your foot down and said no more. When you've had it, how can you be a good caregiver? It's hard enough when you want to do it.

Good luck. I hope you are both happier after the dust settles.
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Stillgoing, you need to win this battle now. It will be tough but this man CANNOT come home. Right now that is all that matters. Do not let them bring him home. The financial/insurance stuff will be dealt with as it comes.

I went through this with my mom. Hospital was discharging her after a bad fall to my dad with dementia. I was out of state, rushed home , 12 hour drive and began a furious battle with the hospital.

One thing that that helped me was a very tough lady, director of the assisted living I wanted to use. She talked to me on the phone, got me down off the ceiling, told me not to worry about the threat of huge hospital bills and told me to absolutely not accept my mom in the door.

It was the toughest few days of my life but I held tight and things got resolved.

You can do this!

Deep breaths and one thing at a time.
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Reply to Windyridge
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Stillgoing Jun 13, 2019
Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Medicare liason told me to contact SW & business office of facility hes at now to keep him there as self pay until I'm ready for him to come home.
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Stillgoing, about the insurance policies?  Who is the owner of those policies?  Also, as everyone is advising, say NO to the issue of his returning to your home. You are not able to meet his needs and it would be an UNSAFE DISCHARGE.  To those last 2 words, they should pay attention because of legal consequences to them.
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Reply to rovana
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Stillgoing Jun 13, 2019
I own those policies & am beneficiary.
Just received a call from a man working with the Drs & Medicare like a liason. He was very helpful also. Said not to bring dad home. Call the council of aging & get ombudsman involved if needed to have Dad assessed psychiatrically. He saw in dad's records he has mild dementia. Said it could be from drinking or the drinking could be a new thing.
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I am replying to your reply to me.😊 Didn't want it lost in the shuffle.

The SW didn't mention Medicaid! Once you told her Dads income, that should have been the next thing she said. He should be under the cap required. Get her to start the application now so he can be Medicaid Pending.

If the insurance policy has a cash in value, Medicaid may ask it to be cashed in. The money can be used to prepay his funeral.
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Stillgoing Jun 13, 2019
Yes SW mentioned Medicaid & asked for his income.
What if I have 3 small life ins policies on him? Will they take them all aside from his funeral expenses?
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Follow the advice of those in the know here. Tell them now, you won't accept him back in your home, that his mental and physical needs are too great for you in your household and that they must find an appropriate facility for him. I know several years ago when my mother with Alzheimers, had pneumonia, was well underweight and bedsores etc, after living for a year in a small private home care facility in another state, the hospital only kept her for 5 days and wanted me to come and get her to take her home. My sister was POA and on vacation and I flew out to deal with things. I was SHOCKED that they were willing to let her out the door in her condition. I didn't know what to do and couldn't believe that they would even release her in the condition she was in. They then started calling skilled nursing facilities and I went to look at them. When they took her by ambulance to one at night, they took one look at her and told the ambulance to take her back to the hospital. I was outraged....at her treatment. She went back to the hospital that night and then I had to find her another place. Finally found one. Terrible experience. I was there 9 days at the new place and can't tell you how bad I felt -- I wished I had the POA ..I wanted to fly her out of there.
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Reply to GIAGIA
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Countrymouse is so right! I am so glad that you still have time to STOP the plan to send him home "until they set it all up." Don't agree to it! They have the time to set it up -- they have 24 hours.

Don't sign anything for him for financial responsibility for the ALF, unless it's as his POA (are you his POA?). Don't accept their excuses and promises that it's only temporary placement in your home. Stand firm -- he is NOT coming back to your home.

Please keep us updated.
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GIAGIA Jun 13, 2019
What does ALF mean?
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOO- !!!

That is EXACTLY what some of the excellent experienced people who've posted have been warning about - do not fall for the "come home first, just temporary" ploy.

He can't be discharged to your home. No. Keep saying no. No no no.

And who appointed this home health agency? When did they get to stick their fingers in the pie?

Liaise with the rehab discharge SW and ONLY with her, and your Dad is going to the ALF and NOT TO YOUR HOUSE.
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Stillgoing Jun 13, 2019
I know! I feel like they're trying to trick me! No!!! I don't want him home now! He needs a psychiatrist evaluation 1st! Can I request he go back in the hospital for that??
Of course his PCP is on vacation this week. But I did tell his nurse about it all yesterday.
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Update: yesterday,the SW from the rehab said Dad will go to a local ALF when he's discharged tomorrow morning.

But this morning, I get a call from a home health agency telling me they're going to schedule pt & nurses to visit my dad either home or in ALF. She told me to call ALF because that will move things faster. I did. They're sending a nurse to evaluate Dad as to what amount of care he'll need.
She said it'll be at least 1,800/ month obviously more, Or its self pay. OR they can see if he qualifies for Medicaid.

But, he may need to come home 1st until they set it all up. I spoke to my husband & if Dad comes home, we will have basic rules written up for him to follow.
Wash face, comb hair, put on clean clothes etc daily before going to the senior center.
He's able to do these things. He just needs to stop being lazy as he's been his entire life.

I really don't want home health care coming multiple times/ week. BTDT years already. Its disruptive to me & my family.


Im shot! It's all I do to get myself up now with my fibromyalgia & exhaustion.
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Reply to Stillgoing
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So, still going; call back the discharge folks and talk to them about his NEEDS as opposed to his income/assets.

Get what he needs sorted first. Yes, Medicare should cover a short term diagnostic stay in a behavioral health/psychiatric unit, especially if you keep harping on the fact that he is talking about suicide.

For Long Term Care, you will need to apply for Medicaid for him.
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Stillgoing Jun 12, 2019
I'll call right now
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Have you had the final care meeting with the rehab? Either in person or over the phone? At that meeting you need to tell them that he is not able to take care of himself and that he cannot come home because there is no one to take care of him. This is what happened when rehab said it was time for it FIL to be discharged because he was declining rather than progressing and medi-cal was not going to pay any longer. My BIL told them that he couldn’t come home and he either stayed in rehab or went back to the hospital. Rehab sent him back to the hospital saying he had “pneumonia”, we know that was an excuse to send him on his way because he had had fluid on his lungs for 4 months already and had a chest tube! The hospital said there was no pnemonia, just a little UTI. From there the hospital social worker started working on his discharge plan. We made it clear to them that there was no one available to give him the 24 hour care he required and everyone agreed he would need to go to a nursing home. It took about 2 weeks but the social worker found him a nursing home. The downside to that is, if you don’t get involved, you won’t have a say in where he goes. If he’s on Medicaid, then they will send him to the first place with a Medicaid bed available. That is a problem for some people because they want to tour the facilities and approve the final one. But at the end of the day, rehab will not wheel him out to the curb and tell you to take him home. They will either find a reason to send him back to the hospital and let the hospital figure out what to do with him or they will figure it out themselves. Just be very clear that coming home is not an option anymore. Good luck!
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Reply to worriedinCali
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Stillgoing Jun 12, 2019
Thank you for replying. He needs to be evaluated for mental health. I updated below some of the things he's done & doesn't think are a big deal.
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Call the Social Worker and tell her you can no longer care for Dad. Could he be evaluated for LTC. If he has money, use it for his care, if not, start the application for Medicaid. Hopefully, the LTC is attached to the rehab. Easy transition.

The rehab isn't discharging Dad, Medicare is. He probably has hit a plateu and Medicare wants him released.
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Stillgoing Jun 12, 2019
I called his PCP & the social worker left both vms. SW just called me back. She understands why he can't come home. She asked if he has income?
Just his post office pension of 1,8.00/ month & 129.00/ month SS. He has very good insurance with Federal BCBS!
She said if he stays there as private pay its be $340/day. 😳 Told her of his threatening to kill himself & drinking. He needs a mental health facility.
Idk what else to do.
He doesn't have any assets now except a life insurance policy that I'm the beneficiary of since mom died.

His son (my brother) is a violent jerk in Fla & no help to me.
Afree the latest attack on me & my children, I've cut him out of my life permanently.
Doesn't Medicare or BCBS cover mental health inpatient?
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NO, you absolutely do NOT have to take him back! But, you MUST tell the facility that so they can work on other options for him. They give you a weeks notice so that whatever needs to happen can start taking place. His health insurance will not pay for him to continue staying there.
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Reply to mollymoose
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Stillgoing Jun 12, 2019
They called me Tuesday night & wanted me to get him Friday am. I only hot 3 days notice. 😣
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Please keep us updated.

You will regret taking him back home. So don't do it. YOU count, too!
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Reply to CTTN55
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Stillgoing Jun 12, 2019
Im trying not to!! I've replied with updates so far.
Im exhausted I can't get out of bed right now. 😢 I just want to cry!
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You have a full house with your 2 sons, one with medical issues himself. Second son finishing his degree.

Sounds like dad is competent to make his own decisions. How did he come to live with you five years ago? Was it a medical emergency and the only option that he was willing to consider?

It is clear that you have had enough, I don't blame you. If dad is competent you may need to find a way to convince him that the current living arrangement is not working for your family. If you can't convince him it will require a legal route. Have you consulted an elder law attorney?

For now ask dad's doc to order discharge to a psych facility to deal with the suicidal ideation. This will, at least, buy you some time.

Remember we all have the legal right to make our own bad decisions, no matter how bad. But, we do not have to watch another continue to make them.
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Stillgoing Jun 12, 2019
Thank you for replying. I'm new at posting but have been reading this forum trying to gain info for a while.
My Dad was on 3 years of Hospice for BHF, COPD, etc when my Mom became too I'll to take care of herself. She had Sjogrens syndrome which she wound up losing so much weight she was 90 lbs & still losing weight & strength, a leg amputation due to a Factor V blood clot, I quit my job, packed an overnight bag & moved in with them until I could hire help. While I was there, Mom got worse & had to be hospitalized several times. She was intimately ex with eschemic colitis & was sent home on hospice. I had both parents at home on hospice to take care of.
Mom was always very private about financials, so knowing the end was near, she started telling me where "everything" was & what her wishes were. My Dad didn't know any of this. She knew he couldn't handle it.

She passed away within 2 weeks of being home. I had to make her arrangements as they were never made.
Dad kept himself drugged up & literally buried his head in his pillow to avoid any of this. I couldn't leave him in the house alone. I stayed. I thought he'd go right after her. He didnt.
After 6 months of groundhog day I said the only way for me to get back to my family was to either move them here or clean up his house. Sell it & move him in with us. We lived an separate counties about 1 hour away from each other.
I chose to clean up his house which was downsized somewhat already, fix things that were neglected & sell it. 8 months later, I was back home.
That was 5 years ago!
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How old is your Dad? I was very angry with my Dad when one of his teeth fell out at 87. His dentist told me that lots of people his age have no teeth— that he did nothing wrong, but instead, probably did a lot right to keep them that long.

I think your dad’s desire to die might not be metal illness. Wanting to die is not the same as wanting to kill oneself. He has had a lot of diseases. His spouse is gone. I think mentally healthy seniors (honestly) share this feeling. A lot of contributors to this forum feel this way also. Given his age and condition, quality of life and lifestyle, this may not be irrational thought.

Be truthful with your dad like you’re being with us. Tell him the living arrangement is not working for you anymore. Offer to take him to consider some housing choices. Maybe he can settle near some of his friends.

When you lied and said you had the flu, that was a big red flag. You don’t have to do this anymore. You need to be happy. You only have one life and this isn’t working for you.

If he is of sound mind, he has every right to use his money (return access to him) and it is also not illegal for him to drink (hopefully he wasn’t driving drunk). Even if it isn't medically advisable, he is a adult. If he’s competent, let him make his own mistakes like you would with any other adult not living under your roof. If he lives at your house, of course, you can have house rules.
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Reply to ACaringDaughter
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Stillgoing Jun 12, 2019
Thank you for replying. I accidentally replied to yours on another's answer.
Im going crazy!
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You don't state, as far as I can see, that your father has any significant mental impairment? I'm not talking about the alcohol, possible depression, that kind of psychological disease; I mean dementia that would affect his legal status, his right to make decisions for himself.

The reason this is important is that if he is legally competent to do so, the person who will consent to his discharge from the rehab facility is him. The facility will ask him where he is going, and if he says "home" meaning to your house, where he's been living for five years, it will be assumed that that is where he is going.

So everyone is right: you need to get in there fast and intervene.

I don't know whether anyone has suggested to him that he himself might prefer living in a facility? Is it an option that has ever been explored?
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Stillgoing Jun 12, 2019
Thank you for replying. Dad is 82 very unstable, walks wobbly with a cane because he refuses the walker, has no common sense, forgetful, bad hygiene Thinks he can & still be able to drive. Um NO! He hadn't driven in 8 years because he's run over his own mailbox twice! Hit the giant red balls in front of target several times while picking up my mother from work. She had to hide the keys from him for his & everyones safety. He found them 1 day snuck out to their garage put the key in turned on the car & backed up right into the closed garage door!
I don't know how my mother put up with him for 50 years!!!
Amother incident almost burned their house down with them in it!!
We were visiting them for fathers day bbq, as We did many times before.
This time, after we left dad decided to scoop all of the used charcoal into their plastic garbage can. He closed the lid & went inside.
Thank God someone saw black smoke coming from their house!!! The garbage can caught fire as did the garage door it was next to!!! Fire was blazing up to the roof!! Dads co2 machines were in there!
That Angel who saw the smoke, stopped banged on the door. My parents inside didn't hear the doorbell or knocking! Mom finally heard it opened the door & the Angel pulled her out yelling "your house is on FIRE!!!!" 911 got there & was able to save the house. Dad wasn't even rattled or remorseful that he almost killed them both! 😳🤬
My family ran up there asap & took charge of it all & tried to calm mom down.
See? My Dad has no common sense!
He believes whatever a stranger says & can be very easily manipulated.
Its exhausting watching out for him.
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RIGHT NOW, before plans to discharge him go any further, you need to call a Care Conference with the facility’s social services department, the director of nursing, the therapists who have worked with him and even the administration if they are available. There has to be nothing but complete and total honesty during this meeting. Take a deep breath, pull yourself up by the bootstraps and speak frankly with the people at the meeting. You cannot continue to take care of this mentally ill man. Other arrangements must be made. You will not be bringing him home. You have made this decision because your own mental health is at risk. Do not let the staff present convince you that they will not abandon you and send out follow up home care. This only lasts for a few weeks to a month and then you will be back in the same situation. Be strong, be firm and be resolute in your decision that you can no longer care for him.
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Reply to Ahmijoy
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Talk to the discharge planner.
He should not be returned home in his condition.
Someone suicidal cannot be cared for at home. You are not running a psychiatric
facility, and until he is stabilized (after bourbon overdose + 20 meds) and feeling better, his placement should be appropriate for his condition.
Refuse to take him home.

SnoopyLove,
I like how you said that:
"Your home is no longer available".
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Reply to Sendhelp
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Stillgoing Jun 11, 2019
Thank you for your advise! I dont think Dad told them at rehab about wanting to die. 2 of his friends from the senior center stopped by to tell me, & another woman from his SC wrote him a letter begging him to not do it.
I know he hadn't told them about his recent drinking binges. I told his primary Dr & all of his ER Drs.
Should I relay this info to the rehab tomorrow? Or call his primary Dr. about it? Both??
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No, I don't believe the rehab can make you take him back. Advise them that you can no longer take care of him in your home. Stand firm. Do not pick him up.

Hopefully, others with more experience will chime in but definitely you should advise the rehab that another placement for him needs to be found as your home no longer is available.
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Reply to SnoopyLove
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Stillgoing Jun 11, 2019
I'd Iove to say my home us no longer available!! Boy would I!
His primary asked if we should look into a mental health facility, after I told him about his drinking & will to die. But, he wound up being Dx with the pneumonia & admitted for that.
Im tired of his lies! Sneaking around after we're asleep. I'm taking better care of him than I am of myself. My family tells me this daily. I have helped cure Dad of his CHF he's been battling for 7 years!
He still has COPD, numerous back fusions, rods in back & significant hearing loss.
I bought him new hearing aids, he lost one & won't wear the other.
He let his teeth rot, so they ALL had to be pulled & he was fitted with dentures. He refuses to wear them!!
He's a PIA!!
My Mother had more wrong with her healthwise, but still took pride in herself until her body gave out.
Im disappointed in my Dad.
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