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I am the daughter who takes care of mom primarily after my father passed in 2011. She has always had a close relationship with MY daughter, and that is very nice. What is not very nice is that my mother cannot afford her house any longer, because she is constantly giving my almost 30 y/o money for car repairs, pays her insurance monthly and phone, her parking tickets, etc etc. My daughter unfortunately is a narcissist and because I do not agree with her tactics she has "ruled" that I am no longer to interact with her. This gives her free reign to drain my mother's bank accounts... while I do everything I can on my end to help my mom understand WHY she is always $1000 behind a month. Is there any valuable advise that someone can share?

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You could have your mother make you or another family member POA of her accounts and require that any expenditures go through the POA. You could also have the county aging services investigate.
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IF your mom's only problem is mobility problems and she has no cognitive issues, mom can do whatever she likes with her money. However, the fact that you say that your mom seems to have difficulty "understanding" why she's short on funds would seem to indicate that mom is no longer able to handle her own affairs.
Some suggestions:
Call Adult Protective Services to investigate for financial abuse of a vulnerable elder. Ask your mom who she wants to have handle her financial affairs; get her to an Eldercare attorney to assign SOME responsible adult as PoA. Get your a referral for a neuropsych evaluation to see to what extent she is competent to handle her own affairs.

Your daughter has rule that you can't interact with her (your daughter?) or your mom? NO ONE who doesn't have guardianship can tell you that you can't interact with your mom.
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I agree with the above poster that you need to get this stopped. If your mom cannot afford her house any more and cannot afford to private pay for independent or assisted living and has to go into a nursing home on Medicaid, there will be issues with the gifting of money during the 5 year look back period.
Is your mom able to understand that she cannot afford to be giving your daughter money? If not, you have a great case to become her guardian or get financial power of attorney to protect her assets.
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ask yourself. Who pays the bills and from what resources ? Be careful not to mess up a good , inexpensive and loving atmosphere. Maybe you could just check the cost of a live in care taker. Good luck and God bless.
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This type of behavior on the part of your daughter is consider elder abuse. Even if your mother agrees to help financially, your daughter is exploiting her. I would report it to an elder law attorney to see what can be done. Doing nothing is only increasing the problem and eventually someone, like yourself, will have to financially support your mother. Think about it. Your daughter is exploiting your mother.
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If your mother does not understand why she is $1,000 "short" every month, then this should tell you her thinking abilities are on the decline. Financial abuse by family members is all too common, and unless you can gain access to your mother's bank account (via POA, guardianship, etc.) she will fall into debt, lose her house and won't have a place to live. Your daughter is getting these behaviors from others who taught her it was all right to take advantage of those who can least afford it. Talk with your mother, write your daughter a letter and explain how her grandmother is in debt. If all else fails, you can always use legal remedies.
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Your daughter can rule what she likes but you don't have to comply. Intervene in such a way that she has no contact with your mother except through you - after all, you're main carer. How's your daughter even able to get at your mother?
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this is elder abuse, look it up. My sister did the same thing with my mother "borrowing" money. (then went onto my father after I became mom's payee)
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You can call APS but unless your mom is legally incompetent there is nothing you can do. My mom and brother are doing the same thing to my grandma and my uncle and I called APS. The social worker said that being taken advantage of and being incompetent are 2 different things. As long as your mother says that she's fine with paying for your daughter then it's her business and that's that. However, it also means that your daughter can't dictate that you can't communicate with your mom, your mom would have to express that she doesn't want to talk to you. I would recommend assessing your mom's personality because I know that you are trying to be helpful but it could end up causing her more grief than you think. Good luck
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To the people who are advising you to take control and freeze out the daughter, you can't do anything like that, either. Unless she has been ruled legally incompetent, she can do what she wants whether it's a good decision or not. It's no different than parents who enable kids or men who pay for women/vice versa. The social worker can't do anything unless she's incompetent, she's allowed to go bankrupt buying the granddaughter diamonds if she wants. I'm sorry but it's the truth. Being her caregiver doesn't mean that you have control over her decisions. If you are so bothered by it and she's not incompetent, I would look into seeing if you can get a disability trust for excess income and get her approved for Medicaid in home care in order to be free of being effected by the situation.
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Sounds to me as if your Mother is trying to buy your daughters affection. She is using the money to get your daughter's attention and this probably causes your daughter to spend more time with your Mother.
If your Mother is competent, then all you can do is point this out to her. Try having a heart to heart talk with her and explain your fears for her financial future, emphasizing your concern and love for her. Let her know you are there for her and you can lighten her burden. Many Senior people do not like to make financial decisions and would like someone they can trust handle their affairs. Tell her you could work up a budget together, and she can see how much she has come in and how much going out, and how much she has to "throw away".
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Your only hope is to get your mother's POA and keep her from accessing her own money and, the only way you can do that is with your Mother's consent as long as she's competent. I could write a book about this very circumstance! Good luck.
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The OP can't force a repayment since she isn't the one who loaned the money. She also can't make POA decisions unless the mother is incompetent, she can get POA if the mother okays it but it's not enforceable until the mom is incompetent or incapacitated. If APS comes and the mother is aware of what is being spent on the granddaughter then there's nothing they can do. The only way they can do anything is if the granddaughter is taking money that she doesn't know about. However, there's no guarantee that your mom would acknowledge the unauthorized purchases in order to protect her. At this point it seems to be a family and moral issue. You can consult a lawyer but I suspect the same answer unless your mom is exhibiting other examples of incompetence. The state is reactive not proactive because taking away someone's rights is a big deal. Getting POA because you don't agree with spending habits isn't a good enough reason for POA unless the spending is causing her regular bills to be unpaid. I understand that you're trying to look out for her but if it's causing you stress, the best thing may be to try to minimize your involvement with it for your own peace of mind.
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Mm. Even if your daughter, at approaching 30, is an independent adult would you not feel some residual responsibility for her behaviour?

My children are all around that age. I don't pretend that I like everything they do, or every choice they make, of course not. But I can't imagine taking their exploitation of a grandparent lying down, if they were ever to do such a thing.

I'm not suggesting that the OP should prevent the granddaughter seeing the grandmother at all, and I agree that the older lady has a perfect right to see whom she pleases and to do as she pleases with her own money, assuming that she is competent. But the OP describes herself as her mother's main carer for five years. That must count for something. Not least, it implies the OP's gradual assumption of responsibility for her mother's welfare over a significant period of time. To suggest that she can safely sit back and say oh woe is me but what can I do... I don't think it's a good bet. I think she would be implicated in the financial abuse if she allows it to continue unchallenged.

So challenge it. Loudly.
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Time to bring in the cavalry. Can you arrange for a geriatric case manager to assess her situation, including whether she understands that if she gives money away it means she doesn't have it anymore to spend on supporting herself, whether she has sufficient capacity to manage her own money, and discuss what happens WHEN she runs out? Also, a family mediator who specializes in elder and mult-generational issues could help.
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OK, I know a thing or two about narcissists and I know for a fact from your description that the narcissist won't stop. At the time I knew this one particular man, I didn't know he was secretly taking advantage of his girlfriend and draining her bank account. Of course he took financial advantage of others by overcharging for things he sold and he normally didn't give anything away to those who needed it as far as I noticed. Trust me when I say this behavior won't stop because the narcissist is selfishly greedy. When they drain people financially, they don't think of the needs of that person and they're quick to move onto the next victim. They always have a back up somewhere and they may come in as nice and friendly to worm their way into the victim's life, only to take them down in some way or another.
Be very wary if this person's name happens to be on your mom's account, this will give her free reign to drain that bank account. You can stop this from happening by taking over your mom's financial affairs. What you can do is speak to the bank about suspected elder abuse and see if you can find a paper trail somewhere or some kind of digital records where the money went. You can take what's left of your mom's money and put it into a new bank account, but leave the old bank account empty if you can't take the other name off of it. One way to empty the bank account as a last resort if you can't transfer the money to a new account is to go to the ATM and withdraw all of it. You can even do this at the window of the walk up teller. Withdraw as much as you can from the ATM, and whatever the ATM won't give you (if you have to take it out in certain amounts) you can always go into a walk up teller and get the rest.
Next, see a personal banker either at that bank or another bank and open a new account and deposit the money. See if you can put your name on the account as POA. That way, you can monitor the account.
When you open the new account, tell the bank what you told us here, and explain the situation and tell them you suspect elder fraud or abuse. Tell them who it is, named them specifically and block them from accessing the new account.

How to prevent future fraud or abuse:

Hold onto the check books and the debit card. That way, the narcissist won't have any access to the bank account and cannot get the card or the checks away from the elder. You can also opt out of having any checks for the account since many places no longer accept personal checks. We really don't need checks anymore anyway when you have debit. Our bank actually came out with a new type of card with a microchip as an added layer of security. This is where are you must type in your pin number, and without that pin, you can't use the card in some places that require you to insert it into the slot as opposed to swiping it and running it as credit.

As mentioned here, you could also have your mom's competency level evaluated. If she's know if she's incompetent, someone will need to take guardianship of her take over all of her affairs so that no one can ever take advantage of her again.

What you should do now:

Have a family meeting about the problem. This should be done in a nonjudgmental way while confronting the issue. It would be a good idea to get the family in on watching over the elder. One thing you want to do is see if anyone else has also been taken advantage of financially. This is where you can help others who were also taken advantage of to put a stop to the enablement because this is exactly what's going on from your description. As long as she enables bad behavior it will continue until the purse strings are pulled tightly shut.

Now, someone needs to personally addressed the narcissist about paying her own way in this world. If she's going to park illegally, she's going to have to pay her own fines. If she's going to have a vehicle, she needs to stand on her own 2 feet and pay her own insurance and repairs. If she's going to drive around an old piece of junk that's always breaking down, she's going to have to pay for it herself. You mentioned the narcissist is 30 years old. That's plenty old enough to stand on one's own 2 feet and take responsibility. I can see grandma helping the granddaughter once in a while, but the granddaughter should never be a living off of grandma. There's an old saying about kids being spoiled because no one will spank grandma. This line is not meant to be taken literally because you don't want to literally spank her. The line is just meant as an awareness thing. I can understand is grandparents want to spoil the grandkids rotten like they may have spoiled their own kids when they were little. This grandkid is 30 years old, a grown adult who should've long since been independent enough to not even need help from her grandparents. The grandparents are most likely on a fixed income, and we don't know how much money they have in savings. Anyway, even if they have money in savings, this should n
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Anyway, even if they have money in savings, this should not necessarily be a license to spend it on anyone because they don't know when they themselves may need that money until it's too late because it's already gone.
Not everyone who takes advantage of elders is necessarily a narcissist, but narcissists are notorious for draining people financially dry by squeezing out of their victims every cent they can possibly get.

*Special tip

If a narcissist knows how much money someone has, they'll stop at nothing to get every dime. If they know how much money you have, believe me when I say they'll stop at nothing to get it all. This happened with a friend of mine who happens to be this man's girlfriend. He took financial advantage of her and no one knew what was really going on until he was finally evicted from her home because she threw him out. That's when all the hidden truth came out and all was revealed. The narcissist would even put the joint bank account in the negative just for a pack of smokes at the end of the month. He always watched the online banking to see when the checks would route because they got direct deposit. He would stay up all night until the money showed on the online banking page, he told me himself what time the checks route. I'm sure he had sleepless nights when the checks didn't show up on that page at all until the bank opened at 9 AM. Narcissists are often money hungry from what I noticed and experienced.
The narcissist may not listen when you confront her, and there's no easy way to confront I narcissist or to talk any sense into them but to confront the problem. If someone doesn't stop the narcissist from draining this bank account, you're very right about the elder being rendered homeless and having nowhere to live but under a bridge in a cardboard box.

What I have to tell you is really going to hurt but sometimes the truth really hurts.
The narcissist in your life doesn't care about you or her victim. The narcissist only wants what they want, and they don't care who they hurt in the process of getting what they want or getting their way. The narcissist I once knew was also married to another woman. Something inside told me it wouldn't last a year and that something turned out to be right. I don't know what happened but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he was trying to financially drain his wife. It wasn't until much later than I heard he was trying to gain access to her bank account after the split. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he was taking advantage of her. Because he always spent himself broke on smokes, he didn't even have the money for a divorce. When his mom was gone, he lived off his girlfriend. This financially broke the bank as I described earlier, and to worsen matters even more, he was on her bank account. Please consider removing the narcissist off your mom's account in any way possible. You're smart enough to bring this sad situation to a happy ending
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Everyone seems to think that the Mother can dictate to her adult daughter and set up rules to be followed. I can guarantee they have not lived this scenario. The granddaughter is a narcissist and, the grandmother a co-dependent enabler. And for those of you blaming the mother for the daughter’s behavior-you need to rethink that. The mother’s not the one enabling and adult; the grandmother is. The daughter no doubt stays away from her mother. The granddaughter learned a long time ago that her grandmother can’t/won’t say no to her and; that’s her ticket to exploit her. The grandmother may think she’s helping her granddaughter out of love but, it’s actually co-dependency. If the grandmother actually loved the granddaughter she’s let her grow up and learn to manage her own life. I’m speaking from firsthand experience. It’s particularly scaring if the grandmother might need Medicaid in the future. The mother can talk to the daughter and granddaughter until she is blue in the face and, it won’t make one bit of difference.
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There must surely be a happy mean somewhere between dictating - which I agree she shouldn't do whether or not she can - and empty hand-wringing, no? The OP is her mother's main carer. She is not a helpless lackey. And her daughter is not exempt from legislation protecting vulnerable adults - it exists.

If the OP continues to provide an increasing level of care without attempting to resolve this abuse, who's the enabler then?

But BnnK54 can you tell us - how did you deal? That would be seriously useful to hear about.
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Your daughter is not self-supporting. If she is living with you and taking money from your mother, this is really sad. I would pay no attention to what she has "ruled". You need to push her out of the nest to help her learn to fly. She should not be in charge of this situation.
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Many of you are acting like the daughter can just go take control of bank accounts and affairs because she thinks that her daughter is abusive. It's not that easy and furthermore, doing so can also be viewed as abusive by the state if the mother doesn't want it. The law is the law and until she has authority to do it, she can't open bank accounts or keep her mom's money for what she sees fit. The fact is that we don't know the dynamics of the family and how/why the granddaughter is enabled by the grandma. Maybe she considers her a daughter, maybe the op and her daughter have lifetime issues. Who knows? But to advise her to take control or open accounts or force repayment, etc is not good advice and can be illegal. She hasn't mentioned anything other than the money to imply that her mom is making bad decisions but bad decisions is not incompetence or we'd have all been in trouble once or twice. The person who said that the op might be in trouble for allowing it- how? It's not her business unless the granddaughter is threatening or bullying the grandma for the money.
When you say she can't afford her house, do you have evidence of this or do you fear that? I'm guessing that her home should be paid off and she is responsible for the taxes, utilities and maintenance.
Where are the other family members? Is there anyone who can talk to your mom who she would listen to? If not, consulting an attorney or removing yourself are the only options. Maybe your mom enjoys the codependent relationship? Some people do like to baby others. If she wants to die penniless, it's her right.
I personally feel like there is an undisclosed dynamic between the 3 of you which you're not mentioning that is the root of the issue.
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A power of attorney alone would not prevent your mom from making gifts to her granddaughter. A power of attorney does not transfer authority to someone else, it only gives authority to someone else to manage things for the principal. The only way to really prevent mom from undue influence is by establishing an irrevocable trust. A revocable trust may help, but an unscrupulous person can always try to get someone to sign a new trust or try to revoke or amend a revocable trust. With an irrevocable trust your mom will be protected. Properly planned and drafted, an irrevocable trust may help your mom qualify for Veterans Benefits or Medicaid. The rules very from state to state and the tax consequences can be significant so this is not something you want to do without the benefit of an Elder Law Attorney licensed in your state.
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The daughter is 30 years old, and has her mother take care of her car insurance, traffic tickets, and a bunch of other stuff? I have just a few words for the 30 year old daughter - GROW UP AND ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY! This Is something she should have learned to do as a teenager.
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If the grandmother is legally competent, she can continue to bankrupt herself any way she pleases. If she has no sign of dementia of any kind, all you can do is step back and try not to watch. Stop handling mom's bills and tell her why you are letting go. Her choice not yours. Not your circus, not your monkeys.
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sounds like my parents, especially my mom, with my son; do I feel responsible? maybe, only in the sense of having him and me and his dad divorcing and yes, especially now that mom's being proven right and all the resiliency stuff's being said to be wrong, that he really was traumatized by it, ok, I get it, but does that justify her enabling and co-dependency on him which, yes, I do believe she was, ruined her but I did step in and take care of her, tried all the above tricks but as has been said, since she was never deemed incompetent nothing I could do; didn't work so well with dad after she passed though he tried hard but dad put him in a position of moving in with him to take care of him; now he did get a VA benefit to pay him, so that helped somewhat but he kept trying to get him to sign his houses over to him but he wouldn't ever do it and I did get POA over dad's money with POD so I got it when he passed which really upset him but he wound up with a girlfriend by that point who came into a bunch of money which tided him over for a while but
what I'm wondering is how is mom funding her $1000 shortfall every month; does she have money to cover it or is she in debt? that sounds like my husband, who I admit I was wondering about - turned out he'd gotten 7 credit cards he just kept playing with till it all fell apart and we're now under a debt management plan; that was to deal with son #2 on my part (son #1 is mine only) - new husband - who grew up with this so both had hard time learning as teen-agers - youngest has done somewhat better, wanting to do on his own when he truly can't yet - anyway #2's is a bind and pretty sure all credit cards are cut off so he can't look to dad anymore but like was said about knowing how much you have he has somewhat idea of how much got from dad but don't plan to go into that for covering his usual and normal expenses he's gotten behind on even though I know why
wonder if this daughter works?
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Call Adult Protection
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As an RN and attorney who deals with elder law matters daily I suggest family mediation. You, your daughter, and a trained and experienced mediator may be able to reach an agreement, which should be put in writing. If it is drafted by a knowledgeable lawyer-mediator it is enforceable as a contract. Trying to use the law with a "willing victim" doesn't always work so well. They tell authorities everything is fine. Search eldercare mediators in your state for referrals to competent mediators. Otherwise, you need to let your mother know that she will likely lose her home if nothing changes.
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minnesota25: Your mother is an enabler. THIS MUST CEASE NOW! Good grief, your mother is going to lose her house over enabling her granddaughter? That tells me that your mother's mind is going downhill.
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Churchmouse, we weren't able to deal with it in any useful way really. My in-laws went through all their considerable money enabling grandson. We always thought it was my MIL who wouldn't say no to grandson but after her death in 2013 it became clear who the real culprit was-grandpa! He would complain about being short of money and grandson but refused to actually take any steps to stop it and would go behind our backs to keep the handouts going. Those two were the perfect storm.
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This scenario happened with my sisters in-laws. Two Brothers in Law mooching off elderly uncle - $1000 for tires, $3000 for mortage, it was something every month. Guess what - when uncle needed and applied for Medicaid - he had a huge penalty period. And of course Brothers in Law were no where to be seen. No money. So uncle had to live with the loser father of these two BIL. Awful situation.
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