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I am the daughter who takes care of mom primarily after my father passed in 2011. She has always had a close relationship with MY daughter, and that is very nice. What is not very nice is that my mother cannot afford her house any longer, because she is constantly giving my almost 30 y/o money for car repairs, pays her insurance monthly and phone, her parking tickets, etc etc. My daughter unfortunately is a narcissist and because I do not agree with her tactics she has "ruled" that I am no longer to interact with her. This gives her free reign to drain my mother's bank accounts... while I do everything I can on my end to help my mom understand WHY she is always $1000 behind a month. Is there any valuable advise that someone can share?

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1RareFind: Yep, granddaughter is going to have to stand on her own 2 feet. If she is using, that is going to be against her obtaining a job. Please God let her be able to obtain employment.
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Yes, something really needs to be done to stop the handouts from grandma to granddaughter. It's time someone tell granddaughter it's time to get a job if she has no income, someone really needs to step up to the plate and intervene. If grandma doesn't realize what's coming as a consequence of enabling this kind of behavior, someone really needs to become her guardian and take over her financial affairs. The granddaughter needs to get her own income and somehow start bringing in her own money and using it for what really counts such as important mandatory expenses. She needs to learn budgeting skills so that she doesn't need grandma's handouts because it's breaking grandma's bank account to the point she's about to be homeless. I don't think she would be homeless for long if someone were to put her into a facility, society is wonderful about keeping seniors off the street from what I've noticed (around here anyway). Our town in particular is all for the seniors from what I was told by a friend. No one messes with a senior around here without the town turning against them. The town will quickly stand up for the senior. I hope your town is also like that. If so, you really need to start spreading the word so that others can also become aware of the problem. If your town is anything like ours, but tell me will quickly jump to help the senior in some way or another, citizens in some areas are just like that
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1RareFind: I agree and had wondered the same thing and had posted a bit about...is the granddaughter spending granny's $$ on drugs? Something is going on when her hand is constantly out (with no end in sight) for granny's money. Granddaughter gets car fixed, groceries-should be the end of hand out for granny's money, but it's not.
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minnesota25, I'm glad I could help. Sadly my link was removed and my post edited. I've seen many other posts on this site with links and they never get it removed but mine did, why does mine get removed and others don't is a mystery to me because I've seen so many likes on this site I can't even count. If you want to know more about narcissists, you may want to try searching YouTube, they have a search box and you can even copy and paste the word from here into the search box if you're not sure how to spell it. What I found is how very similar each story seems to be, and I would highly recommend researching YouTube because different people have had their own unique experiences. I'm considering making a video of my own about my own unique experience since I knew someone who since died a narcissist, He never changed and had his own clever way of manipulating people and breaking down their boundaries. I wrote a journal to him since he died because I could never say what I had to say to his face when he was living. There's no arguing or reasoning with a narcissist from what I've even discovered for myself and I'm pretty defensive when I'm attacked in any way. That didn't stop me from defending myself against personal attacks and I would never say things his way and I think that's why he may have seen me as a threat. Anytime you don't agree with a narcissist, they tend to see you as a threat to their agenda. What I discovered is there greatest fear is being abandoned, and you may have to try that with the narcissist in your life
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I would never dream of being a leech to my grandmother or mother; it's totally inappropriate behavior and it is no way to act
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1RareFind thank you very very much the resources link, that is super.
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I stumbled on a page containing very helpful in dealing with narcissists

queenbeeing
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No, I'm asking where is the granddaughter's money going, not the money she gets from dear old granny. Doesn't she have a source of income, even section 8 for herself? Good grief all mighty!
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stevensmom, I haven't followed the whole thread, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if others have also mentioned taking over her financial matters. There are different ways to do this and guardianship is probably going to be the best bet. Guardianship actually gives you control over all aspects of the person's life, and something definitely needs done before the grandmother becomes homeless, no thanks to the granddaughter who needs to be stopped. The granddaughter is obviously not thinking of her grandma's needs, nor is she thinking about what kind of serious dilemma is down the road.

From the OP's description, I've been suspecting there is probably a mental decline going on with the grandma, obviously she needs some very serious help or this wouldn't be going on. I'm very curious just how long this is been going on and just how much money has been going into the hands of the granddaughter. Just like someone else mentioned here, I'm very curious where the granddaughter spends her money and where it's going. I don't know if it's all going towards bills or if she's just wasting it, but it's funny she's quickly taking down her grandmother financially. Something is definitely going on besides just the granddaughter taking advantage of grandma, the granddaughter may very obviously lack budgeting skills, or maybe she's using it on drugs or alcohol but something is definitely going on that's causing this problem. I once knew a narcissist who wasted all his money on tobacco and lived very large at the expense of his live-in girlfriend until she finally evicted him from her apartment. It sounds to me like the granddaughter definitely needs investigated and she probably needs to be prosecuted. Someone definitely needs to take over the grandmothers financial affairs because she's definitely in financial crisis. Anyone going bankrupt to the point of possible homelessness definitely needs someone to take over their financial affairs and to straighten things out. Anytime you take over someone else's financial affairs, it does involve holding on to any cash, checkbooks and debit cards. I have a friend who was his moms POA and that's exactly what he did. It's hard to take advantage of someone when someone else is handling all of their financial affairs, but it must be the right person. It's hard to take advantage of someone when someone else is handling all of their financial affairs, but it must be the right person handling the affairs. Someone definitely needs to cut off the enabling behavior by taking over grandma's financial affairs, which would mean drying up the financial source to the granddaughter. Perhaps cutting off her financial source would bring her to the point of realizing that she really needs to use her own money on important things and not blow it foolishly, she really needs to go to someone who can teach her budgeting skills. She's not entitled to her grandmas money if grandma's getting federal benefits, she's not entitled to it, her grandma is. Someone really needs to be yelling at the granddaughter right now because I don't think she's understanding the whole situation, and it's going to take the right person to be able to shake some sense into her or best yet, knock some sense into her. I mean, look at the situation. I don't think the granddaughter would like it if someone was spending her broke and she was facing homelessness and perhaps had nowhere to go but under a bridge in a cardboard box. Some towns like ours have very strict ordinances against homelessness, and cops around here will definitely pick up the homeless and put them in a jail cell. I know of someone who is currently homeless and that's what the cops even told him. Around here the homeless cannot even be obvious without the cops being able to spot signs of homelessness and pick them up. The problem described here is hopefully not going on in this town because around here the cops will definitely pick up the homeless. I hope for the sake of the grandmother that someone stops the problem before it's too late because someone needs to step in. Intervention is definitely necessary
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I've stayed with mom off and on since my dad died in the in law apartment, and now we need to rent it to plug the leak. She seriously considered selling the home and investigated but ultimately it may be too much for her for various reasons. The financial leak she is experiencing is likely equal or close to what she cannot afford to give to my daughter. I told mom, after a month of moving and downsizing, that I am doing everything I can to improve her cash flow but if she continues on with the daughter behavior things will change. At that time, I will consider that there is a significant issue that may need to be addressed with POA exercising advice received on this forum. All and all, the entire situation is entirely depressing but I am doing the best can.. Thanks for all the advice again, I have little resources for such advice and truly appreciated. M25
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" for car repairs, pays her insurance monthly and phone, her parking tickets, etc etc."

The granddaughter is a leech. She should be thoroughly ashamed of herself, but the OP explains that, as a narcissist, the granddaughter not only is not ashamed but resents being told that she ought to be to the extent that she has formally informed her mother that she, the victim's/enabler's caregiver daughter, may not contact her, the leech granddaughter.

Which is breathtaking chutzpah. Me, I'd be outside the granddaughter's house with a megaphone and a hairbrush; but then I haven't walked a mile in the OP's shoes.
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There is no way my daughter would ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, treated her late grandmother this way. I have to ask-where is the granddaughter's money going??
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1RareFind, unless you have financial POA, taking someone's debit card and cash is considered stealing. It's sad that the granddaughter is getting money when the grandmother cannot afford to be giving her money, but I think you would need to be very careful in how you handle things. This is a very sad situation and it seems like there are a lot of elderly people being taken advantage of, but we still need to follow the laws.
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minnesota25, thanks for clarification. I really do think you need to buckle down and spank your daughter! This is my opinion because something needs done and things need to change right now, not later. Don't wait until it's too late, especially if your mom still sneaks money to the granddaughter. If she's doing this now, she's already facing homelessness. It sounds like you're already doing the right thing by finding areas to help you increase her cash flow. However, your mom is defeating the purpose of sneaking money to your daughter. This is why we really need to take over all of her financial affairs, and what you need to do is first start with the purse and go for the wallet.

* This can be done while she's sleeping or any other time she's away from her purse and wallet.

When you have the wallet, remove all of her debit cards and put them into your wallet along with all cash. Redeposit all of the cash into her bank account. Sit down with the bank manager and tell the manager exactly what you told us in as few words as possible.

* Things may be much smoother if you happen to know the manager pretty well, the better you know the manager, the better.

1. See if your daughter is joint owner on the account your mom's account.

2. See what's required to close the old account and move all of the money into a new account.


3. Have the person in question blocked from ever accessing the new account.

You will probably get a new debit card, so handy in the old one for the bank to shred for you. Do not give her the card! Don't give her any cash either. Best yet, make it a rule not to even carry cash anymore, just do all of your transactions on the debit card but run it as credit. Limit your mom's access to the account so she can't put herself further in the whole than she already is.

* Have all of your transactions go through you! Have the bank call you if she tries to access the account and especially if she tries to withdraw any money.
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* Do not have a checkbook! Having no checkbook eliminates another avenue of transferring money to the leech. The idea is to dry up the source completely from all angles. It won't take long before your daughter stops coming around to see grandma when she realizes grandma can no longer give her money. If she really loves her grandma, she'll still visit even if she knows she won't get any money. Just from your description though, it sounds to me like she's just using grandma and she doesn't really care or even love her, this is just the nature of a narcissist. Again, I knew a narcissist and they don't love, they devour. You can already bet that the narcissist already has another victim lined up, this is how they operate and you might want to secretly follow her and watch who she starts hanging out with. Next, you'll definitely want to at very least warn other potential victims she hangs out with. Anytime a narcissist starts hanging out with anyone, they already have bad motives to take advantage of those people no matter who they are. I don't know if you fully recognize all the signs, but since you raised her and you can identify her as a narcissist, perhaps you already know something about narcissistic behavior. I must warn you something you probably already know that there is no reasoning with a narcissist and you can't argue with them. They don't listen, nor do they care. They don't care about the needs of others, they just look to get they can from their victims, whether or not the victims need whatever the narcissistic is trying to get from them. What you may have to do is cut off contact or at least limit it between the narcissist and her victim. I personally would try to see if you can move your mom in with you or vice a versa. If this isn't possible, see if one of you can move closer to the other. Even if you end up selling grandma's house and moving her in with you (even temporarily), this will increase her savings. It sounds to me like the narcissist is targeting grandma because she's alone (if I'm correct). This is how the narcissistic usually operates. I know this due to how the one I used to know operated. They have a way of manipulating their victims until they get what they want from the victims. Victims of narcissist will try to set boundaries, but narcissists have clever ways of getting around those boundaries and breaking them down until they get what they want from the victims. They usually target the victims who are alone from my experience. There may be one other person who's also a fellow victim (but you may not know until later when the truth comes out).
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Babalou, thanks for the insight. I'm glad this worked for you and you were able to resolve whatever problems you were having with your mom.
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cak2135, the OP is the daughter of the one being ripped off. The one doing it is the OP's daughter, which would make her the granddaughter of the elder being ripped off. The picture you should be seeing is the granddaughter ripping off grandma. I think they 0P really needs to spank her daughter for ripping off grandma, grandma being the mother of the OP. This should give you a better picture now that you now have a better understanding of who is who.
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The daughter needs to stop ripping her mother off; this is no way to treat an elderly parent
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Minnesota, the BEST thing i ever did for my mom was to get her a full battery of neurogognitive testing, sugested by the geriatric psychiatrist who was managing mom' s anxiety while she was in Independent Living. My mom was " fuzzy", too. It does not need to be Alzheimers to be serious. Mild Cognitive Impairment does a bang up job on robbing an elder of the executive function that would allow them to make good, long term financial decisions.

Find a rehab hospital with a memory clinic, or call the teaching hospital in your area and talk to the neurology department about where to get your mom a full workup. It clarified mom's issues for us all.
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Thanks for all of the thoughtful answers... I have been following along and is a lot to absorb. Right now I am in the process of helping my mother generate some cash flow and "plug the leak" which I truly believe she knows is my daughter, but just would rather help her then not. For clarification my daughter won't talk to or allow me from talk to herself, the daughter- and not from talking to my own mom. Like to see her a try! Further clarification, mom can be a little "fuzzy" at times but nowhere near alheizmers in my opinion..or at least I hope so. She does have medical issues however. Because she is fairly cognizant but makes poor choices with her money...ie giving away what she doesn't shouldn't , it makes much harder to diplomatically handle. Ultimately, I am working very hard to increase her cash flow to keep her in her home, and told her that if I do this for her she better not continue on with "being the cash cow" to my daughter, or things will have to change and I will not be happy. So ... I think she "gets it" but then again, think she will sneak to give her $'s just like she did when my dad was alive. They used to have the same arguments. To those asking, my siblings are to wrapped up in their own lives to help or have significant issues of their own- sadly. Thanks again for all the answers, I will continue to read and consider. God Bless.
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I question whether the police could really do much of anything, I'm just not sure about that one. I actually wonder if this would really cross over into a civil matter that would require someone who handles civil matters? Sometimes things happen and when we most need help where most disappointed to hear cops can't help us because it's a civil matter. This can leave you stuck. If it turns out to be a civil matter, you can always contact your state's civil rights commission.
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Call the Police Dept. They will investigate this and come up with solutions. Have had this happen. That and change banks.
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Hi crickett33,

My foster dad also did a very good job at hiding dementia, which probably contributed to why I couldn't recognize when he was mentally declining, which really complicated matters even further. When you're not trained to spot and recognize dementia, someone who hides it makes it even harder to spot in the earlier stages. I had no idea what was going on for quite a while until it became obvious enough to know something was wrong
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And the daughter is not allowed to rule anything! Good grief! hello!
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I really hope these people who are taking money from their frail elders have sleepLESS nights! Shameful! If granny says "here, take such and such amt of $$, the younger person should say 'NO, I CAN EARN MY WAY AND YOUR EARNING CAPABILITY IF BEHIND YOU." My cousin actually did say this when my late mom wanted to give him money, but he was not an abuser.
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What I was thinking before creditors have a chance to lay hold on or put a lien against her home, have you thought but before that time comes is just to sell or transfer it into a trust or into someone else's name? It would still be her home but just under someone else's name and no creditor would be able to put a lien against something not in her name, but only if you act early on and now would probably be the time to do it if she is not yet in debt and only if she actually owns her home outright. If this is a property tax issue, you could try talking to your mom to see if a property transfer into a trust or another person's name is something she would do so at least she would have some kind of help to keep her home. This kind of action should be done before anyone has a chance to put a lien against it providing she's the owner. I think doing it early on is a very smart move in some cases because I can't put a lien against what's not in your name if you're the debtor
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pS - my Mom was VERY astute at concealing the progression of alzhiemers. The doctor's letter specifically stated my name to care for her financial affairs [based on my PoA and i live/d with Mom in the family home. Instead of admitting she forgot how to use the stove/oven - she either claimed she wasn't hungry, or wanted instant puddings, cottage cheese "non cook" foods. She forgot her favorite recipes - and suddenly hated jello. i made her smoothies with protein powder - anything i could think up. She'd had her gall bladder removed a year prior, so nausea/GERD was a problem, too. Ensure runs about $29 for a case of 16 bottles. She drank about 4-5 a day. Today will take care of itself -- her tomorrows desperately need your caring involvement. (oops - the TCL up^^ there should be TLC - sorry.)
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pS - my Mom was VERY astute at concealing the progression of alzhiemers. The doctor's letter specifically stated my name to care for her financial affairs [based on my PoA and i live/d with Mom in the family home. Instead of admitting she forgot how to use the stove/oven - she either claimed she wasn't hungry, or wanted instant puddings, cottage cheese "non cook" foods. She forgot her favorite recipes - and suddenly hated jello. i made her smoothies with protein powder - anything i could think up. She'd had her gall bladder removed a year prior, so nausea/GERD was a problem, too. Ensure runs about $29 for a case of 16 bottles. She drank about 4-5 a day. Today will take care of itself -- her tomorrows desperately need your caring involvement.
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pS - my Mom was VERY astute at concealing the progression of alzhieimers. Instead of admitting she forgot how to use the stove/oven - she either claimed she wasn't hungry, or wanted instant puddings, cottage cheese "non cook" foods. She forgot her favorite recipes. i made her smoothies with protein powder - anything i could think up. She'd had her gall bladder removed a year prior, so nausea/GERD was a problem, too. Ensure runs about $29 for a case of 16 bottles. She drank about 4-5 a day. Today will take care of itself -- her tomorrows desperately need your caring involvement.
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i agree with the others, in that it's best to get PoA for medical [including HIPPA] and financial matters. Sometimes even doctors evade getting involved with the dastardly diseases of dementia or alzheimers: i found out my Mom suffered with vascular dementia/debilitating -- onset 8 yrs ago -- on her death certificate. i did have to exercise the PoA for financial because my sister [very well off] coerced Mom's car from her [18,000 miles: 5 yrs old] - and that money could have paid for her meds.

Can you set up a sample budge - going by the utility / food / property tax / insurance costs / rx bills for 12 months? Her financial needs are going to escalate. Her "gifts to her adult daughter WILL work against her should she need medicaid SSI or other assistance. The gov't would see it as 'hiding money' in order to qualify. Take the household expenses __off the top__ of her income: even if you need to bump up the annual amortization from Aug to Dec. i just paid $2500 in property tax, house insurance is due in Oct, car insurance in Dec.

It's time to be the tuff one, okay? Your Mom doesn't have the money to squander. Get a letter from Legal Aid or an elder care attorney, Even though i had PoA, i had to have a letter from Mom's palliative care doctor specifically stating that Mom couldn't handle her financial affairs. Your Mom might be simply responding out of habit - and emotional coersion - when giving money to your sister. Just gotta put your foot down and close the wallet. Perhaps set up a separate bank account for paying taxes / food / rx/ utility bills - or payment will fall to you. Utility companies will file a lien against the property if their bills go unpaid. Sometimes TCL must wear a suit of armor. Mine is potholed with rocks, but you're welcome to use it. Sweetie - your "job" is to protect your Mom. We're on your side. i'd try to keep protective services out of it - sometimes they go too far and before you know it, they're trying to talk you into court-appointed conservatorship [declaring your Mom incompetent in the eyes of the law]. Many elder care attorneys or legal aid have initial free consultations [many are available through longstanding arrangement with AARP]. May God bless, protect and guide you.
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quiltinrealtor has a point on this one. However, I must add that not all elders lose their minds or abilities and what I have to share will complement quiltinrealtor's reply:

I used to know another elderly man who is like a grandfather to me, and he was sharp as a tack for his age. I mean you really couldn't tell he was even elderly because he didn't even look it! He was also pretty strong physically and he ran his own horse farm. He took care of his own affairs just like a younger person does. He was a retired veteran who also used to work in a steel mill before he retired. He was pretty sharp about everything, and he was able to stay safe. He was very careful who we answered the door to and he was never taken advantage of by phone scams or even mail scams. He knew his money very well. Not everyone who becomes elderly loses their mind, some of them are very sharp. I knew another one who since died, and he was also very sharp as a tack. Sharp elders are everywhere, we never know who they are until we get to know them, and sometimes it doesn't take long to find out just how sharp they really are. I know there are other elders who decline, but not all of them do, I've known some who didn't and there have been others who stayed sharp right up to the end. I think one of the secrets was most likely their diet and having few to no deficiencies because the body as well as the mind needs building blocks to keep going and stay well. A proper diet is very helpful especially during old-age. If you study some of the other countries in other parts of the world, you'll find that there are some cultures that don't even know anything about cancer or what it is, and some of them don't even get sick. You can just about imagine them living up to about 120 years and they're still healthy right up to the end. We can learn a few things from them and apply it to our own lives. Some people experience mental decline, but they don't have to. In fact, I was surprised to learn that Alzheimer's can now be reversed with a new drug. However, there's also natural alternatives to drugs to not only reversed but prevent Alzheimer's. Knowledge is increasing these days and new discoveries are being found. I don't know how long it'll be before the Alzheimer's drug hits the market, but I hope it's sooner rather than later because people need it now, and look how many have died long before the drug was ever discovered. That's too many. Even one death is too many, we need that drug now and we are long overdue as a society. I speak on behalf of those I've known who developed dementia, I say to those drug companies, "hurry up! Get that drug on the market now!" I'd really like to see a world full of sharper elders who can live longer and take care of themselves right up to the end. I'm sure this would make us all happy and even very grateful to see our elders thriving right up to the end
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