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My hubby after 8 months of being sober and almost dying in the hospital last November, started drinking again about 4 days now.
The doc just informed him that the part of his liver that is not scarred looked to be doing ok, this was before he decided to drink.
He has a huge umbilical hernia and just said he was scared, because it was hard to push in and hurt for a while. He says it’s not hurting now, but I think it is. I said let’s go to the hospital, all he said was no, I’ll get Covid-19.
All he’s ate today is a McGriddle from McDonald’s lol, but says he’s not hungry. He’s just drinking beer, but seems to have a lot of congestion he keeps spitting up.
I’m scared, because I don’t know how to help him. He’s being cordial but just does not look right. He has not taken his medication for going on 4 days now, even when I try to tell him to.

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sounds like he is very depressed and accepting the outcome, whatever that may be for him.
POST AND DNR FORMS SHOULD BE IN PLACE.
LIVING TRUST AND/OR WILL SHOULD BE IN PLACE.
LOVE AND COMPASSION SHOULD BE IN PLACE.
911 cannot help him, if he does not want to be helped. If it is physical, perhaps he doesn't have the physical energy to help himself through that process.
feed him water. and if he feels he needs the taste of beer, well, put a spot in it for him to taste. after reading this, I need to slow down too, and stop the fast food. The fast food is slowing me down too. Nothing in my kitchen is fresh from the garden... :( except my lemon tree. I do use those in my water everyday. If yo see a lemon tree in your neighborhood with actual fruit, stop, knock on door and ask for a couple.. they seem to help me a bit. I met a lot of people by giving the fruit that is covering that tree...
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GinaMom can you give us an update. Many of us are concerned about you.
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GinaMom,
You don't know how to go to your private messages. There is no reason I cannot post here for you, as I know the feeling. I am still learning my way around the page after more than a year.
Gina, is your husband still entirely rational? Is this the reason you are not "taking things into your own hands" and calling 911? Or do you not understand that your husband may be now ACTIVELY dying? Have you asked your Husband "Hon, do you want me to call 911 if I cannot arouse you; if I believe that you are dying".
You say that your husband said "They cannot do anything" if he goes to ER. Indeed, that may be the case. IF that is the case then your Doctor will order hospice. There should be paperwork called a POLST in place so ambulance drivers don't attempt to resuscitate (if legal in your state).
But it is time for all of you, husband, you and doctor, to talk about all of this and make decisions.
It is time to face the fact that your husband may be dying of his cirrhosis. There is nothing that we on forum can do to help you. You must have the help and advice of medical care whatever the decisions are. If you knowingly allow a dying person to simply die you could be accused of neglect. This is what we are trying to prevent for you. I think it unlikely, with his history, and the way he will "present" now (look).....but it is a possibility. And it may leave you questioning yourself as to what you "should have/could have done".
I am so relieved you have an appointment today. However, if anything happens to prevent this "appointment" you must call 911 and have your husband taken to the hospital. (With your description of late I can't imagine how you will get him to an appointment at this time). THERE they will document his refusal for treatment even if such decision does indeed take him more quickly.
We are all on the Forum worried for you both. Our thoughts are with you. We wish you both only the best that can be.
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ginamomgoodman Sep 2020
Yes my husband is lucid, and always tells me not to worry, he says the swelling is because of his drinking and that he only has a bleeding hemorrhoid. Yes, I continually tell him I want to take him to the emergency room, but he does not want me to. He will be talking to his primary tomorrow, they said the doctor is not available today, so his normal appt is tomorrow. He sleeps, and still eats as much as he can, says he gets hungry which is good. I do see sometimes he has to take a breath, but for the most part he is very lucid, knows everything that is happening. He’s not cold, just won’t stop drinking beer, even though he is not drinking as much, he is still drinking it. Lots of congestion, but now he is not spitting up the foam from the beer.
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To go to your private messages, click on your avatar(symbol, picture) and the click "profile". Your private messages are there.

Gina, you keep asking for suggestions.

We keep telling you to call 911.

Why won't you do that?

You husband is dying. He is suffering from insufficient oxygen to his brain. He is not thinking clearly. YOU need to be the one in charge now.

You have 2 choices. One is to call a local hospice organization. They will send someone to examine him. The other is to call 911 and have the EMTs examine him.

I would certainly fear not doing anything and allowing him to die unattended. If he dies with no evidence of medical care, you will be asked why you didn't summon care for him.

You don't talk your husband into letting you call for help. YOU call for help.

There is a hospice organization in Hesperia called Amazing Grace Hospice.

Call the doc in the AM and ask "Is it time to call hospice if my husband won't go to the hospital?"

(((((((Hugs))))))))
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Dear, i will set a bottle of cold beer on the step outside after you drink this tall glass of water with shaved ice, lemon, and a droplet of juice. and maybe a swig of vodka to help keep it down. Mios drinks.. thy have caffein in the them, vitamins, taste good. I might help.. Green Matcha tea with lemon is wonderful. anyway, before he drinks- offer him a glass water.
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GinaMom, please go to your Private Messages.
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ginamomgoodman Sep 2020
I don’t know how
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Gina,

I just read that your husband has an appointment with his primary doctor on Thursday. Call that doctor tomorrow-Wednesday and tell him what is happening and why your husband does not want to go to the hospital and ask that the doctor to see your husband on Wednesday. Don't wait until Thursday to see the doctor. Your husband's condition is too critical to wait.
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Gina,
Take a look at what I wrote on July 22nd about my Dad and how he died. What you describe in your reply to Shane sounds just like my Dad prior to his collapsing at home.

Your husband is right--that this stage of his illness, there is very little that the doctors can do--except to extend his life for a few more days or hours. (Or make him more comfortable by giving him some pain medications.)

Unfortunately if your husband does not want to go to the hospital then you are going to have to wait until he does collapse, like my Dad did, and then you will be able to call 911. They will do everything they can to save your husband, The paramedics and EMTs will have to perform CPR on your husband when they are called.

I wish that I could take away your anguish and worry and fear, but I cannot. All you can do now is let nature take its course and let your husband die as he wishes--at home.

Have you talked with hospice yet? You should talk with your doctor about hospice tomorrow ASAP if your husband is still alive then. I know that I sound gruesome, but your husband is actively dying and could die within the next 24 hours (based on what you wrote).

Lots of HUGS 💖 and Prayers!!! 🙏
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ginamomgoodman Sep 2020
I can ask about hospice; however my husband would probably act like I’m silly for doing so, I WILL call the doctor tomorrow, and talk to him about this situation. My husband does get up and wants to eat, because his stomach hurts him bad, and he says he needs food to calm it down. I’m glad that he still acts like he is hungry. Thank you for your reply, I am really trying to talk him into letting me take him to emergency.
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Please take your husband to the ER or call 911. You’ve witnessed blood in his stool and that is a huge red flag. This should be evaluated immediately. A diseased liver causes blood from clotting properly. He can very well bleed out not only from his bowel but from his stomach as well. I’ve seen it first hand as a young nurse; I will never forget it either.

I’m sorry you are going through this. Your husband is an alcoholic (Per your post prior to this). He has been diagnosed with alcoholic cirrhosis. He should not be drinking at all.

Alcoholism is a disease that effects the entire family. I’ve seen too many of these cases as a nurse. The CG struggles with the patients bad decisions. I feel you are a caring individual who is stuck in an awful situation. You love your husband and want him to get better. But his addiction is in the way.

His liver is dying. Liver tissue does not regenerate. Hubby drinking alcohol is gradually but surely killing off the rest of his liver.

I recommend Al-Anon for you to provide support to an alcoholic who is actively in the process of killing himself. Alcoholism is a disease in itself. The alcoholic has no control over his choices and will continue to make bad decisions due to alcohol addiction. Until your hubby wants to stop drinking there is not much you can do except find support for yourself and your well being.

Best wishes to you. Please take care of yourself too.
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ginamomgoodman Sep 2020
Hi

I wanted to ask another question, you are so wonderful to give me information. My husband will not stop drinking beer because he says he doesn’t want to shock his body. However when he drinks it, he immediately spits up the foam every single time. His bowel movements are never solid and always has a little bit of blood. He says it’s a bleeding hemorrhoid and hurts him all the time, says it stings and burns. His stomach is huge I’m thinking ascites. Idk, he is supposed to get a Kat scan per his GI doctor, but doesn’t think he needs it. And as of yesterday his feet started swelling. I have a numerous amount of times indicated that I want to take him to emergency, but he says there is nothing they can do. I do not understand why he won’t let me take him in. All he says is he doesn’t want to catch covid or die in the hospital. He sleeps a lot during the day and up most of the night. He does have a primary appointment on Thursday, where I’m hoping he tells his doctor everything that is happening. His umbilical hernia is bulging out of his belly button area and ripping through causing it to bleed as well. I am so distraught because I want to help him, but he keeps telling me not to worry and I do. :(
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SMH - This poor man needs medical care. Like right now.
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If his O2 is 71 you need to call 911 and have the EMTs determine what needs to be done.
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Gina....if his hernia is displaced, he could have an obstruction. That could also be causing part of his problems. His 02 stats r very low as well. I would call 911 or if his dr calls u back, get a hospice eval done quickly. Thoughts and prayers are coming to you.....please update us as you have time....
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Gina, I'm so glad he's doing better!
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ginamomgoodman Sep 2020
Hey I have a question, lately, well about 2 months now, my husband has not stopped drinking beer. He was told his liver enzymes were showing good results, even though he still has that partial cirrhosis. Every time he uses the restroom, he poops. The poop just bursts out and I have noticed blood. He says its just from a hemoroid, but yet he has not stopped having these bursting poops for about a month now. I have told him we should talk to the doctor about it, but he just tells me its nothing. Also his umbilical hernia is bigger then ever and it hurts him to push in more then ever, and its leaking where its tearing through his skin. He has a hernia doctor appt on the 16th over the phone, because of covid 19. He is supposed to get a Kat scan of his abominable area, but doesn't think its necessary. He has a primary Dr appt on the 24th.
His oxygen is up and down, but going down again. The last time I took it, it was 71. His pulse 78 that was earlier today.
He is very agitated over everything, and wants to sleep.
He still wants to eat, which is good and he doesn't look jaundice. His stomach looks bigger.
I am preparing for the worst, but hoping for the best.
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I hope all is better today-please update if you can !!
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Gina, did you talk to his doctor last night or today?

You really need some guidance from a medical professional.

Suggesting again that you reach out to get hospice involved.
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ginamomgoodman Jul 2020
Hi,

I apologize for taking so long to get back. So on my husband’s blood test it looks like his liver is showing good levels which is amazing. It’s still very scarred and we know that that will not ever heal. He has slow down actually almost nothing on drinking beer and his blood pressure and oxygen are pretty much normal for the past few days. I think it’s because he wasn’t taking his medication not just the lactulose but also his regular pills and that was probably messing with him.
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Gina, how is your husband today? ((((Hugs)))))
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ginamomgoodman Jul 2020
So far his oxygen according to my oxygen meter that you put on your finger, it has not gone above 82%, someone told me that you are supposed to add 5 points to the result. That would still make his oxygen low.

i just took his BP again and it was 130/81, with an oxygen 79, when he lays down his oxygen is even lower.
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You may have a bad history with your husband -his drinking etc-

you know he needs medical help-and you don’t want to for whatever reason
you should call someone who is willing to help him
Does he have family? Friends?
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Isthisrealyreal Jul 2020
Lulu, your comment is completely unfair. You should take the time to read what this woman has been through before saying that she doesn't want to help.

You can call an ambulance all day and the person requiring medical attention can refuse help, every time, until they are unconscious or out of their heads.

To imply that she is letting him sit there to die is just wrong on so many levels that I can't just ignore your post.

Some people are not so easy to help.
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Gina, call 911. Have the EMT's respond, show them all the readings you've taken with his BP, etc.
I promise, your husband is not the first patient they've responded to that says they won't go to the hospital. They can usually be very persuasive. I have seen them talk the most stubborn person into an ambulance. You won't lose anything by calling them, and then if, heaven forbid, something happens to your husband, at least you know you did everything you could.
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My Dad had CHF, pulmonary hypertension (difficult to push blood though lungs), ascites related to CHF and PH, 4++ edema of legs that extended up into his abdomen (he looked 9 months pregnant), and was receiving 5 liters of oxygen. He had had these problems for several years, but it got much, much worse and 6 months later he had a heart attack and died. He was living at home with his wife/my mother. His condition had gotten worse the previous two months and he could barely walk.

The day he died, Dad's pulse was 88 irregular, respirations were 36 and he had to raise his shoulders to help him breathe better, and BP was 154/92 (according to records Dad & Mom kept at home for doctor's information). He and Mom had just finished eating supper in their bedroom. Mom took the dishes back to the kitchen. She heard a loud thud, ran to the bedroom and found Dad lying on the floor. She called 911. Since they lived in a small town, the police arrived in seconds and started CPR. Mom was horrified watching the policeman and then the EMTs push on her husband's chest. They transferred him to the ER and continue CPR until I arrived 30+ minutes later. Mom did not want to tell the doctor to stop the CPR, so I had to tell the doctor to stop CPR and then Dad "officially" died. For the rest of her life, Mom could not talk about Dad's death without sobbing uncontollably and reliving his receiving CPR and watching his lifeless body being carried through the garage to the ambulance.

Unfortunately, unless you can get your husband to go to the hospital, you might be experiencing a similar scenario when your husband dies at home.

Edit: My Dad knew that he was dying and he did not want to die in the hospital connected to tubes and wires because he knew nothing that the doctors were going to do would help him get better--maybe live alittle longer in pain and misery. He wanted to die at home...and he did.
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ginamomgoodman Jul 2020
You are so right in what you say, he does not want to go back in to the hospital, he says stuff like why don’t I just die and then Gina I need beer I don’t want to die. I hate the fact he thinks he is not worth anything, when he truly is. He has just given up. I will not buy him any beer, so I tell him he wants it he has to get it. That may be wrong, but I just don’t want to contribute to his death. 😢
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You state: "His oxygen seems to go lower when he is laying down".

The reason that his oxygen level is going lower when he is laying down is because his lungs and heart are having to work harder to push the blood through his blood vessels. Also, he is not able to expand his lungs as much as when he is sitting up. Your husband needs to be in a reclining or sitting position with his legs elevated.

How much lasix were you able to get your husband to take? He needs at least 40 mg now!!!

I agree with Barb that the O2 saturation is much more important than what his pulse rate is.
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Gina, the fact that his oxygen is so low tell us that his heart is not doing the work it needs to, which is to get the old blood from his extremities and his brain back to his lungs so that it can get new oxygen. His heart RATE only tells you how fast it is beating, not how well the rest of the system is working.

His very low Oxygen number tells us that things have gone very wrong. Has the doc called you back yet?
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ok
I maybe overstepping this forum but
if those BP and O2 levels are correct-you know how bad that is and you need to get him care-

is anyone there -a neighbour or friend that can help you?
this could be awful and he is still drinking according to you
-you have been told by others that he is likely going to have a stroke or HA
and your not reacting rationally -Are you in denial?
you are watching this man drink and puke frothy spittle and eat meatloaf with a 180+ BP And low oxygen
as if that’s a normal night-it shouldn’t be

You have reached out on this forum and have been told how much damage is potentially happening to his body And what may happen by people with experience in these situations -


i don’t understand why you are acting the way you are but he needs medical help
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haileybug Jul 2020
EXACTLY …. He needs help, NOW. Do something. Call 911

Although he stated he will not go to the hospital, call 911 anyway. You never know. The EMS may convince him and he just may go.

You can not just sit back and do nothing. Don't neglect him. Do your part. I know it is hard but be strong and do the right thing NOW.
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Gin a, I'm glad that you called the doctor. Please do whatever s/he tells you to.

Keep telling us what is going on, too. We care!
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ginamomgoodman Jul 2020
I did receive a call, however docs instructions were to get him to the Er, however that is harder said then done, he will not agree. Even if I call the ambulance he will refuse, or walk out of the hospital like last November. The only reason he stayed was because he was out of it and on life support for 13 days, and praise the Lord he decided to stay longer when he woke up.
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Gina,

Based on what you are telling us, it sounds like your husband might be experiencing a combination of several problems: (A) congestive heart failure—symptoms include spitting up phlegm that looks like foam, shortness of breathe, chronic cough or wheezing, edema, nausea or lack of appetite, a high heart rate, elevated blood pressure, and confusion or impaired thinking. (B) ASCITES--which is fluid inside the abdomen. Symptoms include weight gain, shortness of breath, abdominal swelling, sense of fullness or bloating, sense of heaviness, indigestion, nausea or vomiting and changes to the belly button. (C) O2 Sat of 80% caused by both (A) & (B). 

It is possible that your husband is not thinking properly because he is not getting enough oxygen to his brain—even tho he is lucid. If his O2 Sat continues in the low 80s, he will start to experience organ damage or organ shut down. He will either have a heart attack and require CPR or have a stroke.

Does your husband take any diuretics such as Lasix (furmoside)? If you can get him to take his diuretic, it might help get some of the fluid out of his lungs, heart and abdomen.

Have you contacted your husband’s doctor and told him what you are telling us? Is your husband receiving oxygen?

I know that it is difficult to watch someone get worse and refuse to do something about it. The COVID-19 excuse might be covering your husband’s fear of dying and by not acknowledging that he needs to go to the ER, then your husband can avoid thinking of dying.
Please keep us updated on your husband’s condition. Prayers 🙏
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ginamomgoodman Jul 2020
Wow that’s a lot, yes he has COPD along with everything else, I do have some lascix that I can try to have him take. I don’t think his heart rate is to bad, just his oxygen level. He keeps telling me he will tell doctors or paramedics no. He did finally eat some home made meatloaf I made just a little bit at least something. His oxygen seems to go lower when he is laying down I have noticed
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Gina, how is your husband doing this evening?
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ginamomgoodman Jul 2020
Well so far this morning and afternoon, he seems to be ok, he took his meds last night, 7/20/20

Bp 171/110
Oxygen 82 pulse 73 @ 9:02 pm

Bp 178/95
Oxygen 79 pulse 93 @10:10 pm

7/21/20
Bp 184/97 @8:45am
Oxygen 80 pulse 90

Bp 131/87 oxygen 81 @1:32pm

so I’m glad his bp went down however his oxygen is still at 81, he doesn’t really seem confused. He did finally have a little homemade meatloaf, which made me happy. He still looks bloated but does not look like any edema praise God. Still drinking beer.
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Guess ur going to have to wait until he passes out. Then call the EMTs.
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haileybug Jul 2020
That's right. He can't just stay like he is and not get any help. Better now than later.
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Gina; you asked for advice.

Are you simply going to listen to what he tells you he does or doesn't want? If so, that's just FINE, but then you don't need us to tell you other things to do.

The headache is from the elevated BP; he's most likely going to stroke out and then perhaps you'll be handling someone who is totally bed bound and double incontinent. If that's what you are up for, then don't call for help.

Look we are all going to die one way or the other; I think that dying should be comfortable and not a terrible thing for our loved ones to watch. That's why I suggested that you get in touch with his doctor to get a hospice evaluation started, because your husband doesn't appear to want any more interventions. And I can understand that.

Just call his doc and talk to her/him and see what they say.
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ginamomgoodman Jul 2020
I did call the doctor, however I have to wait for him to call me back 😊
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That BP is scary high-and low Oxygen
call Dr
he could have a stroke

just call

He’s not thinking clearly so you need to
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Call the doctor immediately. He will tell you how to get him to hospital, and whether he should go to ER or not. They are adept now at protecting patients from covid-19. With an O2 Sat of 80% your husband is in danger of dying at home, covid or no. With that high a BP he could stroke. As to appetite, with the beer bloat and hernia complication it is unlikely he is experiencing any hunger. I am so sorry for this dilemma and yes, he is in danger going to hospital, but I feel in more danger by staying home. There honestly is no good answer to this.
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ginamomgoodman Jul 2020
Thank you AlvaDeer,

I can’t get him to go to hospital or doctor, he is lucid but looks bloated, all he wants is beer no food, and I asked him if he was ok, he said with the exception of a pulled muscle on his upper right chest, a broken tooth and a headache he is ok. He said his hernia only hurts when it’s pushed out of his belly button area, it’s sooooo big
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I would have a heart to heart talk with him. I would tell him that I love him and that I wanted to keep him around with me as long as I could.

I would tell him if he loved me and wanted to be with me longer, then he needs to go get the care he needs.
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