Dementia and violent behavior as well as lying. How to protect oneself from police believing lies?

All the answers that people gave are good ones. My problem is that sis has POA and won't let mom have any psy drugs or evaluations from any neurologist or geriatric psychiatrist. Sis the POA says they are above having depression or any psy problem. Fortunately Mom is in a NH. As for answers for you, I don't have any except if she is violent, she should be in a NH and be taking meds to calm her down.

Pam I never knew that was the reason they put quinine in tonic, lime tastes much better. sorry off topic (I think)

Veronica and CM: Cheers! Gin & Tonic is an excellent anti-inflammatory. The drink was invented by British soldiers trying to mask the bitter taste of quinine that they took to ward off Malaria. Don't forget the Lime.

Dear Pam I am so sorry to learn of your denetia. i would never have guessed. Have a glass of wine on me (or two if it helps your anger)

Country Mouse so there really is a village idiot. Up by the Welsh border is that where they hide. Goodness me we certainly learn something new every day about other posters. Hugs to you both, I know you can't help it. Gin and tonic for you CM?

Freqflyer, no one is slamming anyone. Where are you coming from? What slamming are you talking about? What is "slamming" anyway? I am voicing my opinion, you are judging. If you don't like what I say, you need to skip over it and move on. your advice!

Funny you should mention that, Boni :)

Oh, no - probably all of us have posted at least once something that wasn't our best "advice" - but no one should take it on themselves to be the recording angel and print them out or save them to hold them against us later! Eek!

I have been helped both by the posters who agree with me AND probably even more by the ones with a contrasting viewpoint - I believe you should always try to see it from the other point of view, because that way you always learn something.

Goodness gracious! Pam, "destroyed" surely has it in for you! Country Mouse, s/he's working up a hate for you now, too. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I hope no one is hurt by destroyed's invective. Bless our forum-mates for trying so hard to be kind and tactful on the off-chance that "destroyed" may be a real suffering person.

Does anyone smell dust in the air?

Here comes a BER.

destroyed, and your post is doing what now?.... if not being hostile in itself.

Oh. Dear.

Thank you for your sympathy. I'll take all I can get.

Just wondering: is there any person or organisation you DO approve of? Perhaps we could look to them for an example, that would be useful to know.

Thank you Vstefans. My only intent is and has been to INFORM caregivers of the law and how to protect themselves. My heavens, everyone has exploded in their retaliation of what I have exposed and wanted to HELP caregivers be aware of. Personally, I always want to be informed as to is happening in the world around me. I do not live in my own space, to do so would jeopardize me intellectually and limit my abilities to help others be aware of things, events, laws, etc. that they may not be aware of. Every day should be a day of learning and helping others. There is so much hostility on this forum. There are people who apparently can not remember what they post either. Pamstegman has opened up a can of worms on herself. My guess, onset dementia. There is documented proof from agingcare.com. of her responses that are questionable advise. Yes Pam you suggested wine for an aggressive dementia person. I print out all comments that are disturbing as well as the most helpful. This forum is for us to share and help each other. I do not write without absolute documentation. Well, with all the hostility from the uninformed and don't want to be informed crowd, so be it. We all can have a voice and are entitled to our own opinions. Thank the LORD. Most intelligent people seeking answers, want to learn from others more enlightened. I do. We are all smart in our own way. It is about SHARING our experiences, in a KIND way. We can all learn from each other. Think about it, would you want your child to be "educated" by some one not above average. Unfortunately "average" in America is low on the totem pole in the world. Yes, there is proof in that statement. Where is the kindness? Where is the compassion? I thought that in my lifetime, I would see women finally unite. Men will continue to rule the world because too many women will NOT get off of their own "soap box" , self serving agenda. My gosh, women want to be RIGHT in their own opinion, hell or high water. To be heard and have a voice is one thing, but to demand to be "RIGHT" about whatever (and everything) as to their own personal agenda is, ridiculous. This forum is here to HELP each other. My heavens, stop the hostility.

destroyed, curious how does the police department know someone has a high IQ since the police departments don't give applicants IQ tests? Applicants take a personality profile/skills assessment tests.

I realized there was an article over a decade ago regarding someone in Connecticut claiming he was turned down because he was too smart. Being smart on paper isn't the same as being street smart.

destroyed, there is no reason to start slamming other writers here. This forum is opened to everyone to give their *opinion* and to help out with what they found work well for them. If you don't like what someone says, simple just skip over it and move onto the next posting.

If everyone thought the same way, these forum/blog websites would no longer exist.

To country mouse: Name appropriate. I feel sorry for you. Enough said. Police have no training in Alzheimer's. Police have minimal education. President Obama upheld court rulings (Supreme) that police department can and DO refuse applicants with HIGH IQs. What is yours country mouse.

If you want to set the police against you from the outset, give them attitude.

If you want to make the CEO's of leading organisations refuse you a platform to share your experience, come across as paranoid.

Destroyed, I've read back over all the posts because I couldn't get why you were so convinced that the system is so conspiratorial. I think your experiences have driven you mad. Having no co-operation or help with a relative who is demented, psychotic or both must be maddening. Finding that her accusations are acted on without verification - sorry, that's the law! It's there to protect people who otherwise have been historically disbelieved, such as abused children, rape victims, and the vulnerable elderly - must have been even more so. But it's equally apparent that you wasted time and effort berating the police instead of listening to them. The police do insist that you follow the rules before they can help you. Unfair, perhaps; annoying, certainly; sometimes a frustrating waste of time; but nevertheless true.

So what's the state of play now? Where do you want to go from here?

here's the thing though - you apparently wanted to offer an educational seminar based on your experiences, to teach other caregivers something.

that could be awesome, as long as the message is not just that the system is bad and home caregiving should not be done :-0 but how to protect yourself and
what to watch for and what to document, and why and what kind of problems can arise that you might least expect as a would-be caregiver.

destroyed, whoever told you that it is a bad thing to be angry when you should be? really, "be angry but do not sin" means you may feel anger but then you can still choose to do the right thing.

the only thing wrong in your posts is that actually APS is not a for-profit agency at all - they have overworked staff and don't get extra $$ for bigger caseloads, plus if an elder or anyone is judged legally incompetent, they can be placed under guardianship.

I'm guessing you don't have the video that would show that woman with dementia is the one who has crossed the line, and that has got to be very upsetting. I would not think to sit in judgement of you for a second, though I would out of compassion worry that you aren't allowing yourself to feel what anyone in your situation might feel!

destroyed, nowhere in this post or elsewhere did I suggest giving her wine when she is waving a knife at you. I said call 911.
Gosh golly, get some meds and some counseling. You are in a bad way, really burned out. So Sorry.

To momsgirl12: Anger and fury I do not have. I don't, never did and for you to assume so is wrong. Assumption on many people, is part (if not all) of the problem. When people ASSUME things, that is the where reality and truth gets lost. Try disbelief in a legal system, try empathy for all the true ones suffering from not only the disease, but those caring for them. There is no fury. My heavens, maybe you feel that, but don't try to say what I feel. By trying to validate your beliefs and trying to make them mine makes no sense. I have written to inform caregivers of what can happen to them, by the legal system, when caring for a loved one. Also I might add, for comments such as "give an aggressive somewhat violent person with dementia a glass of wine", and responding how absurd that is, is not coming from a place of anger or fury. I am shocked and in disbelief. Big difference. We are all entitled to our opinions, thank heavens. Education is what is important. Without educating ourselves and seeing other perspectives, we can not continue to grow and get out of a "follow the leader" mentality. How many CEOs of corporations have you personally gone to and asked why they refuse to allow a person (with first hand experiences dealing with the legal system and many of the geriatric associations avenues available) to offer education to caregivers about the consequences (legal) of caring for a loved one in their home? My heart comes from compassion, not anger. Your assumptions are terribly wrong and I feel sorry for you. Truly. Generally one who speaks about anger and my heavens fury (wow a very powerful word), is the one who has labeled themselves and THEIR feelings. We have NO connection what so ever with those words and their meanings. I do not share your feelings. There is nothing wrong with you having those feelings, but do not ASSUME what feelings you have are in any way connected to me or other people. We all different and unique people who process emotions and feelings differently.
People are far to quick to judge others. Look at how many people are in jail or prison in the U.S. More than ANY other country in the world. Many people have died from false accusations. My heavens, step back and read YOUR words and advice. You are expressing your anger, fury and judgment call on me.
We all need to unite and share experiences NOT JUDGE, and NOT give ill advice that is potentially dangerous such as the wine for aggressive dementia people. Take care and I wish you well.

BeFree, I agree with you, there is a fair bit of knight-in-shining-armour type wishful thinking going on. But the money motive: well, I agree it's not the main idea, but people do need to justify their salaries, don't they. The less anxiety about elder abuse there is, then the more "society" will look at these professionals and wonder what they're for.

In my fairly varied experience of social workers - though I speak as someone who's never felt under suspicion, so I don't suppose I've seen the ugliest side - the ones who've been doing the job for long are wise, proportionate, cautious and realistic. They can still start out a case seeming rather gullible, but that's because when they receive a report of abuse they have to approach it on the basis that it's true. After all, if you investigate something assuming that it's all nonsense, how hard are you going to look at it?

Then there are the trainees and the recent graduates - oh boy! They have a lot to learn and, like medical students, very vivid imaginations. Fortunately, they are most unlikely to be making any major decisions.

Surely the money motive can't be significant? Isn't it that people in general, and those in the helping professionals in particular, want to find victims and help them? And these helpers can be naive, oh, so naive. I have the helping mentality myself and I have been an idiot for 25 years (bragging here, maybe more years of idiocy than 25). In the effort to be kind to someone who is pathetic and asking for help, it's tempting to look for fault. If the cop or social worker can't find someone to blame, they can't "close the case." Old age makes people uncomfortable -- we are reminded that we all will grow old, maybe some of us will have dementia, all of us will die and it will probably be expensive, lonely, and painful no matter how nice or un-nice we were before. If someone can be found to blame, how much more comfortable is that? Then the cops and social workers can feel that everything is for the best in this best of all possible worlds, God's in his heaven, and they can go about their business. We all want to be the like the ploughman in the Hieronymous Bosch painting who doesn't see Daedalus falling to his death in the background of the painting because the wax on his wings melted when he flew too near the sun.

Destroyed - You are correct, there exists a witch hunt. My local APS sees for profit caregiving organizations reporting family as job security ( they MUST investigate). I could not agree with you more regarding the oppression of caregivers and family caregivers in particular. Machiavelli school of business to divide and conquer - divide the elder from their family in order to get at the elder's life savings. It's all about the money & God bless them real hard for their wickedness.
The delusional and vulnerable elders don't understand that often they are rejecting and falsely accusing the only individuals that actually have their best interest in mind. Undue influence from parties of questionable character are often the cause. These are the same parties that stand to profit from the crucifixion of the family caregiver.
That said - there is a 50/50 rule used by police departments which states that any individual who is a threat to themselves or others can be hospitalized for 3 days observation to determine competence/threat. If this helps at all....

No one is living in the house with the woman, to answer PamStegman. Police were made aware of bite marks (visible and documented with pictures and affidavits by neighbors) inflicted by the woman with dementia as well as the fact the woman has hepatitis C (major health concern as well as transferrable). I just brought up a subject that I believed everyone in this forum should have a dialogue about and be aware of how the legal system is responding to ALLEDGED "elder abuse" cases. Apparently, there are people who choose to skirt the main focus of the issue brought up. Suggesting counseling for the caregiver, because PamStegman thinks the caregiver is an enabler and a glass of wine to be given to a person with dementia (another one of her posts) by PamStegman just shows somebody not in touch with reality. I pray for the innocent caregivers to never have this type of thinking of a prospective juror in any of the innocent caregiver's cases.

Again, you can not make an elderly person go to the doctor. It is the law. Again, police were involved and told of the dementia. Videos and pictures were taken. Unfortunately, the legal system IS corrupt. False arrests for elder abuse is a "Big Money" maker for the state, city, judges, attorneys and all the various "programs associated with the arrests. Government funding is fueling all of the "witch hunt" tactics. Whether or not you believe it, the "false accusation" cases are growing in number rapidly. Who knows, you may be next.

call the sheriffs office in advance and ask a notation be placed on behalf of your household concerning dementia . i had deputys walk into my bedroom one night cause mom couldnt find me and panicked . with a little different tale i could have been police dog bit or shot right in my own bed . the previously called in notation no doubt diffused the crazy claims mom was making . once when i went to va mom started telling my relief girl that i was bleeding out in a hospital somewhere . crazy stuff goes thru a demented mind and i think youd better take proactive steps to protect yourself ..

I knew a woman, an employee caregiver, who went to jail and was in danger of losing her legal resident status on account of supposed harm done to the person she was caring for. Guilty or innocent? At the time I spoke with her, I had no doubt she must have done something. But older and wiser me would have had second, third and fourth thoughts.

People, many of you are missing a major aspect of protecting yourself while caring for a parent with dementia/Alzheimer's. Elders are protected, by law, in every way, you as a caregiver are not. You can not MAKE an elder to a doctor.
That is their right. They can refuse medical attention. The elder can refuse absolutely anything concerning their health or for that matter how dangerously they choose to live. However, a caregiver can be arrested for not providing them proper supervision in all aspects of their daily living. If they choose to lie, their word trumps yours. Also, as in several cases, the videos were not accepted in court. That is a Judge's call. No it is not legal, but it is happening. People also say to speak with the Alzheimer's association. That was done as well. The Alzheimer's association is well aware of what is happening concerning false allegations but choose to keep this information out of the programs they offer. They do not want to educate caregivers about how to protect themselves, legally. Flat out denied to give lectures to help caregivers by the head of The Alzheimer's Association. Conflict of interest was the reason given. What that means, for them (the association) they would be jeopardizing the vast amount of money funneled through funding and grants as well as kickbacks from elder abuse arrests, INCLUDING FALSE ACCUSATIONS.

Destroyed, I have to say Pam Stegman has a point here. Are you saying that the police refused to believe your report of being attacked? Of course people are allowed to do stupid things until declared incompetent and placed under guardianship - the police know that. But this is the first I've heard that they are legally allowed to actually threaten bodily harm or death to anyone. You are saying the police told you that the laws don't apply to them? But I have to agree with Pam...at the point you're at, why are you still there? This woman is obviously dangerous, should be institutionalized appropriately, and enabling her staying out of an institution is not responsible. By all means, document, call the cops, warn APS, call the Health Department and stay well clear. Accusations of abuse are very dangerous - such a report could be computerized, filed and years later come to light. Meanwhile, nothing is done by the police to verify that accusation is false so how could the victim of a false accusation protect themselves? I've had to clear up such long paper trails at work and believe me it is a mess. .Do not let accusations go unchallenged - get verification on paper that you are innocent and have nothing more to do with the accuser. It is just too risky.