Dad is a Mensa-level genius and has been showing definite signs of dementia for several years to those who know him well. It has been easy to hide it (even from doctors) because of his high intelligence to begin with. While he admits to “not remembering things too well” and getting confused. I know that it’s worse than he believes; including trouble processing things, taking an extremely long time to do the simplest things and getting lost on familiar routes. Being a Vet, he prizes discipline and order. So Mom, who has since also been diagnosed with dementia, needed to go to a very important doctor’s appointment but cancelled it for no apparent reason saying, “I don’t really believe or know why I need to go” then made another unnecessary trip to Wal Mart, Dad’s need for control took over—in an extremely dangerous and big way.
This resulted in him being transported by the police to the Psychiatric ward for an evaluation. The doctor diagnosed dementia while also saying Dad was a danger to himself and others. I convinced him to give a medical power of attorney, which made it possible for me to get him into a VA Medical Center, Memory Care unit prior to his release from the hospital. He went along with this because the Doctor said he need to go to a regulated facility. (I always ended that statement with the word, First.) Once at the VA, I convinced him to grant Guardianship, for which I am awaiting the court date. The VA told me it was necessary to ensure he doesn’t just decide to leave.
Now to the problem: I say that with a slight smirk because this is truly not a story in need of a problem. It seems Dad has been trying to be on his “best behavior”; Complementing the staff and not asking for anything he needs (he tells me instead and let’s me ask on his behalf). He says, “I really messed up this time” and calls asking repeatedly, “you know I wouldn’t have hurt Mom, right? I just had to be convincing so she’d agree to go to the doctor”. He’s also been asking about going home and when do I think that’s gonna happen. He’s even called Mom to give her a head’s up saying, “I’m probably gonna get released tomorrow, are you gonna come pick me up?”. The VA Staff and I have been telling him he is regularly assessed to make sure he is receiving the right care at the right place. They will let him know if anything changes.
How and when should I tell him that he will not be going back home? How do I tell him Mom’s been Dx with dementia, the doctor revoked driving privileges and she can’t ever be left alone so she will be moving into assisted living community close to the VA so she can come visit him? Tough thing is we can’t afford for Dad not to receive VA housing/care AND pay for assisted living, memory care for Mom. Also because he’s deemed dangerous to himself and others, they cannot live together after nearly 60 years of marriage.
In terms of ‘how to tell Dad’, my suggestion would be to tell him that your mother has been reassessed as requiring a higher level care than he would be able to provide, even with visiting carers. She needs that level of care permanently, so she won’t be able to live at home. For the moment, she is going into the place near him, because it make it easy to arrange visits right now. Unfortunately there is no other choice. It will be hard for him to argue against that, even though it will make him very sad. You can weep with him, it’s truly sad.
Your father is bright enough to work out that if she isn’t ‘at home’, he won’t be going ‘home’ either, but you don’t need to get that far in the first conversation. Get the first bit done, and some visits between them happening, and the final step may come along fairly naturally. Perhaps there is a chance that his diagnosis will improve as he settles down - ‘his need for control’ may drop down when there is less scope for it. That may mean that they can live together in a facility (even side by side rooms, if not shared), and their marriage may continue as well as possible.
Very best wishes to everyone involved, Margaret
Thank you for your advice. I love your idea about explaining about her being re-assessed. I hope you’re right that it can be the gateway to helping him understand. Because he sees Mom as HIS responsibility along with his need for control will cause him to try to leave the VA to “take care of her”. I know he’s in the Memory Care unit because of his Dx of Dementia and can’t “just leave”.
What started this sequence of events? A trip to the doc became a trip to walmart? Mom decided she did.not need to go to doc? Did dad assault mom at walmart? Others?
What assets are available for their care? See an elder law attorney to help you through all of this. Dad may change his mind on the guardianship and if he appears competent to a judge that could start a whole new chain of events that will be even more difficult.
The Area Agency on Aging may have resource information to help you as well as the VA.
The VA only accepts Veterans, not spouses.
Thank you for asking
I would not be the one to tell dad any of the bad news. That is up to the docs who are treating him. It will come better from someone in "authority".
My heart goes out to you.
You are right about not intervening. Until the guardianship is finalized, I’ve just been trying to keep things on an even keel. I hadn’t even recognized that, while self advocacy is something I’ve taught my children their whole lives, I haven’t expected it from my own father.
Thank you and God Bless
As to genius, be careful if he's still capable of being manipulative, planning things, etc.
If dad is psychotic and is controlled with medication perhaps one day he'll be safe around your mom again. So sorry.
Why? How was it related to Cancelling his wife’s important doctor visit ? Was her appt for a new condition/concerns or follow up for an already diagnosed ailment.
Knowing what happened will assist those in replying to you issue.
My point is, when people have dementia, they don't remember, so there is often no point in telling them. That's only for you, and they won't remember what you told them, so just live in the moment WITH them.
For your mom and dad, I would talk to the Social Worker, the admin, and whoever will listen. Can one of them visit the other on a daily or very regular basis? Is there some kind of transport that would allow them to be together? Even though they each have to live at their facility, what if mom could have lunch and dinner with dad every day? Or vice versa? That's what I would try to shoot for.
Obvi the best solution would be a facility where they can be together. Don't give up on that, it may be possible, but you'll have to spend a lot of time and effort to make it happen.
of your loved ones.
Also, you should get written letter from the doctor who said your dad is a danger to himself, and should not handle financial, medical, and other daily living processes. You should have had some kind of document long before this that you would be the one to be responsible for your parents and what and kind of responsibility you had. If not, get this as soon as possible. If your Dad is able to realize and be cognizant at times, get to agree to these documents as soon as possible because it's only downhill from now on. I'm glad we took care of this at least 10 years before my husband became mentally incapacitated. Also you should have these documents for your Mom as well. Good luck and God Bless.
We have since added his phone to my family’s Verizon Account. His phone is consider a ‘Kids Account”. We set what numbers he can call, who can call him, which apps he can use (Duo, FaceTime, Zoom, History Channel etc), and when he Can call or receive calls. It’s also cheaper than he and Mom having their own Verizon accounts - just $25 each line + taxes/fees
Statins
The picture concerning statins is complex. In the past there have been concerns that in the short-term statins might cause memory-loss and confusion, which has been widely reported in the media, but more recent studies have generally not found this link.
Many people take statins to reduce their risk of heart attacks and strokes, and there have been many observational studies that have looked to see if this appears to alter the risk of dementia.
A meta-analysis is a study that looks at lots of previous studies and analyses all of the data together to increase the number of people studied and to look at the information in a consistent way. A meta-analysis looking at observational studies investigating statins and the risk of dementia looked at data from 11 studies, involving over 23,000 participants, who had been taking statins for between 3 and nearly 25 years on average. When all of the data was analysed together, the researchers found that those people taking statins had a 29 per cent reduced risk of developing dementia.
Talk to the doctor over his care at VA to find out if mom can be in the same facility as he is so they can still see each other with the same kind of monitoring and observation that he is currently receiving.
Is it possible your father always had a controlling, and perhaps, explosive personality? Maybe he just exploded a little too big this time or someone outside the family witnessed it? I ask that because most of the time people with dementia do not say they went to far because they don't remember all of the details of the episode or even why they had an episode.
If they can at least be in the same facility for visitation purposes, you could always tell dad that mom is the one with issues and has to be in a room by herself.
Overall, this is a little strange. A doctor saying he has dementia and a danger to himself/others while you are being allowed to get documents signed by him. He either knows what is going on or doesn't and the medical documentation could be the very thing that nullifies documents you are getting signed. If there are other family members who would have an interest in an inheritance somewhere down the road, these discrepancies will surface in the future.
My brother in law was taken by very compassionate police to a mental hospital for evaluation after he called them during one of his really strange episodes. He had been living alone after his wife died and depression, etc had gotten to be too much for his very intelligent brain to handle. They got his medication regulated and after two weeks they released him to his son. Not sure what the total diagnosis was or medications, but dementia was foremost. He continued to live a more normal/dementia life for 5 years. If it had not been for those police officers being compassionate and taking him in I do not know what would have happened for all of his family lived states away from him and had no control.
It is so hard when you are in the middle of everything, all at once, but the main thing is to take care of yourself. I find as a caregiver, I write things down (really in my computer) appointments, who I spoke to, my feelings, etc. It helps keep things straight and somewhat releases it from my brain. Other wise it feels like fish swimming around in my brain bumping into each other. This helps to take one step at a time. I am sure the VA will be a very big help to you. My thoughts are with you.
I've been through this. my Dad had dementia and was in the VA ward at Ft Wipple, AZ. I also went to self-help classes there with a wonderful social worker and it was a great help for my Mom and me. The man of the house and marriage wanting to take care of his spouse is pretty common. When I moved to AZ to help take care of my Dad, and help my Mom to realize what was going on, I soon realized that I was going to now become the head of the family. This becomes clear when you have power of attorney, legal authority over their care, medical decisions, etc. At first I could see that my Dad was a bit angry and confused that I was taking over but at some point it was a reasurrance to him that someone else he trusted was taking over to make sure Mom and all the details were being taken care of. I think you just need to reassure your Dad that "you've got this" and he doesn't need to worry. Then you just need to move forward as difficult as that may be. Taking time for yourself and good self-care including a vacation or weekends off goes a long way too. You have a long road ahead of you.
Brilliant people, can soar to beautiful heights and be creative, math, spatial sense, art, the list goes on and can cover many topics, we stand in awe. But fireworks either come down or fizzil away. That’s life that’s how it is.
my MIL & her son were this way. His Dad was a good ol boy and happy to be so. My husband now has cognitive impairment and numerous health issues, his mom did the same before passing.
we’ll work with them and the declining situation because we love them. Our love goes beyond how brilliant they were. This is the way things are NOW.
"I am unfamiliar with Conservator and will research as advised."
Guardianship gives you legal control over your dad and various life issues/decisions.
Conservatorship gives you legal control over his finances, etc.
Here's a better description found online:
"What is the difference between guardianship and conservatorship?
While a guardianship gives one or more people the authority to make health-related decisions for another person, a conservatorship is a legal relationship that gives one or more individuals the authority to make financial decisions on behalf of an incompetent or incapacitated person."
Hopefully the guardianship process will work out and also hopefully he will be able to stay at the VA to help defray costs. I can't say one way or the other if your mom would qualify for the VA as well - some here say yes, some say no.
The only experience I had with the VA was after dad passed and mom was going down the dementia path. Had I known about it before (mom was still "in charge", I only helped by getting appointment with EC atty, which she had been going on about for months), we might have been able to secure funds or even VA placement for dad, instead of the place she ended up getting him into. It might have saved some money for them as well! I believe he did get some Medicaid, but they took his pension and SS. The third party group I started with (no charge for their "help") sent me the forms and I had to gather all the info, including getting his military records. All might have been good and we could have gotten the Aid and Attendance (was about $1100/month at that time), however the person sent me expired forms. It took some calls and wrangling to find out what the actual denial was. When I pointed this out, she DENIED sending me those forms! I was in the middle of getting mom into MC, trying to manage all that, her finances, etc and deal with her condo - way too much on my plate. In the meantime, I got the new forms, but it wasn't a simple transfer of the information - all the $ amounts had changed (inc in SS and pension, Medicare and ins costs changed, rent at facility, other expenses, etc), and I was getting no real help from my brothers, so I let this go. Sadly they later instituted a similar "look back" like Medicaid has, so I suspected it would be declined. I didn't want to put in ALL that effort for nothing!
Anyway, bottom line is if your dad had lengthy service OR was in service during a war, she could qualify, at the least, for this Aid and Attendance, maybe more. While working with the VA (hopefully you get someone assigned who can answer questions and help you through the process!) you could ask about applying for this to help defray the cost of her AL/MC or see if she can move in too.
The little bit I picked up today is that the requirements may vary as to who can live in a VA place. Again, it would be best to talk with a VA rep to find out what help is available for BOTH of your parents. They would be the best source. A VERY good EC atty may also be able to help.
We moved all mom's liquid assets to an irrevocable trust and later added the proceeds from her condo sale. The nice part for that trust is if you look at the 2 year graph, ignoring the dip this March, it is almost flat, as if we haven't touched it! We certainly have, as the pension and SS don't even cover 1/2 the cost of the facility, never mind any other necessities (there is a substantial draw every month, and every so often more for a specific need, but so far I am VERY happy with how it's managed!) If both are beyond capability of signing legal docs, the EC atty would be best consult for how to manage the assets. We had most documents in place for her with dad, but had to revisit them when she developed early dementia. The atty had a private talk with her and was satisfied that she understood enough to sign everything, so we could proceed. For your parents, you may need to seek guardianship for both, but EC atty can help with that too.
Everyone, thank you for your advice and sorry for the confusion. Prior to Dad’s pivotal event, my siblings and I discovered that Dad had called Mom’s PCM/doctor saying she was in a lot of pain, presumably from her rheumatoid arthritis. Without even seeing Mom or ordering any test, her ?doctor? prescribed an opioid 3x a day for 30 days with the admonition to call for refills — no follow up appointment mentioned. She had been taking them for over a week. We talked to Mom & Dad about the danger of opioids and Mom agreed to go see the doctor the next morning for a medication review and checkup.
However, the next morning, Mom’s memory failed her, she got up and went to Walmart. When Dad called her inquiring about going to the appointment with her, she said she didn’t think she needed to see the doctor, she felt fine and had never agreed to go anyway. When she returned home she discovered Dad’s dementia, need to control/take charge and a psychotic break all combined in an irrational and dangerous way.
He had poured gasoline in the house and garage. Somehow this was supposed to convince her how serious he was about her going to the doctor. He didn’t say anything to her or restrict her from leaving, he just kept emptying the gas can onto the kitchen floor. Thankfully, Mom immediately went outside and dialed 911. When the police arrived, he sat calmly in a chair and refused to speak except to say, take me wherever you need to.
He was taken to the hospital where he was diagnosed with dementia with the addition of being a danger to himself or others. I hope this helps those who needed more information. The doctors have said he will not get better, his dementia will continue to get worse.
Margaret, there are many compassionate police officers, most of them. Unfortunately, the bad apples get the press and media attention. Talks about defunding police departments all over the country are nuts. We need them. And there are most often doing their jobs properly and lawfully.
There are many stories of the wonderful things the police do in their communities, on and off duty.
It’s during those cognizant times, when I should be totally enjoying talking with him, that I wonder if it’s best to have Mom and Dad in same facility despite the cost.