For those of you who know my story, you know the relationship that I have with my dad. He is now in the hospital for some health issues and is receiving physical therapy. The doctor wants to recommend a nursing facility after discharge due to the issues. I'm in agreement because he needs help fulltime and I can not do it. But I do not think my dad is going to agree with this because he keeps talking about what he can do on his own and he can't. He was verbally/emotionally abusive to me as a child and to my mother as well. The abuse continued into my adulthood. He is also demanding. Even one of the nurses at the hospital told me that he is. When I go visit him, he finds things for me to do! Such as hand him things that are right by him. The doctor is supposed to talk with us this week but I will working and can not take off work. I'm afraid that decisions will be made without me being there. I have also noticed a change in him cognitively that was not present before. My question is, am I responsible for being a full time caregiver upon discharge? I can’t do it.. I have cried for two days thinking about it. I'm not a bad person, but I know it would not be a positive experience.
I don't have any siblings. I do have triggers because of my childhood. Honestly, we do not see eye to eye on anything and never have. To him, I know nothing about anything. We have a strained relationship.
I wouldn't respond at all to his talk about "going home". "Hmmm" is a perfectly good response.
Are either of those possible?
I certainly wouldn't stay for a minute if he starts verbally abusing you. That's unacceptable behavior.
I have stopped bringing up anything about going home, ect. He brought it up and I only voiced my concerns about his safety. When he starting talking ugly to me, I told him I was just going to leave and he said "go ahead" so I did.
You should follow your father’s doctor’s advice and put your father in a nursing facility where he will get the care and attention that he needs and you should visit him whenever you find the time. DO NOT take on the responsibility of being your father’s caregiver as caregiving is a very difficult job both mentally and physically.
If he had unlimited funds to hire round the clock caregiving, he could go home.
If he didn't need so much caregiving, he could go home.
But his NEEDS are driving the bus. Not him and not his wants.
My dad told me that if his caseworker calls me to tell her that he wants to go home and not to skilled nursing care at the NH. I explained again why I disagree with this and I told him that he would have to tell her that. He then said, no.. that I'm in charge and I told him, no, I'm not. He will have to tell her he wants to go home because I do not agree and this will not be put all on me.
Interesting point about who's in charge isn't it?
If Dad is in charge, HE talks to staff (says what HE wants).
If YOU are in charge, YOU talk to staff (stating whatever YOU want eg home not practical).
Dad wants to be in charge, to get want HE WANTS - but make YOU do all the dirty work. He is acting like a crime boss, go smooth that over FB, make it happen...
It's simple: HE wants to go home - so HE must make that happen.
"I don't agree, so I won't be helping with that".
(I've had to use this a few times now).
He has a social worker and she must have talked to him about the nursing home. I'm guessing that is why he told me to tell her he wants to go if she calls me. I have already talked to her so she knows how I feel. I have also talked to the doctor who says he needs skilled nursing care. He may have told the social worker that I will caring for him which is not true. I'm not qualified to do so. He needs hands on 24 hour care.
I don’t know if you have heard the term that some posters refer to as therapeutic fibs to convey a message. It’s easier to fool someone than to convince them that they are wrong.
Most people don’t consider this as outright lying. It’s doing what is necessary either for their own good, as well as being able to protect themselves.
Some people are incapable of believing that they are wrong. It sounds like he doesn’t think twice about lying to others, so beat him at his own game.
Do or say whatever is needed to prevent further stress in your life. I hope these issues are resolved soon. You deserve to live in peace.
The hospital should not send him home with intermittent care and if they do, dad will find himself back in the hospital again.
If he returns home, you will need to remind yourself that his "emergencies" are not YOUR emergencies belong to dad and 911.
Ignore the relatives. Look at a website called OUTOFTHEFOG.COM
Good luck!
You are keeping your Dad safe. That's priceless.
I have known a few people that I like to refer to as having ‘selective memories.’
Isn’t it odd though how they are able to remember everything that they feel was unfair to them? Hmmmm…
I have always been able to see that you and your husband handle this situation well. You don’t play his game.
Wise words! You are right it is never enough or good enough.
I can read it.
From Dad saying "go home" & expecting others to make that happen.. for YOU to make that happen.. to reality.
Dad says "go home".
Doctor looks to you.
You could have said yes I agree with Dad. Let's get him home. When can he leave?
But you didn't.
You accepted Dad *wants* to go home. But you kept practicalities front & centre.
*He wants*
He is free to want what he wants.
His wants are not commands for you to obey.
Feel it?
Yes I did. I'm just so tired... I'm tired.. This does not have to be this hard. But you are right, I shifted to him and I will continue. I have had all I can take. Deep down he knows that I have tried my best to care for him since my mom's passing.. but then again maybe he does not. I know that he has his family thinking that he didn't have help before going into the hospital and this is hurtful because he did.. He had me. But... as I said before, there is nothing else I can do. I'm in my 50's and I do not have the energy anymore to be stressed...
Yes, the doctor came to see him yesterday while I was there. He looked at my dad and asked what are his plans after discharge and he said “ Go home.”. The doctor then looked at me and I said this.. He can not stay at home alone , it is not safe and I will be not be there. Well then he said he would reevaluate him next week to see and he might need to go to NH for awhile for continued therapy. He has lost some fluid buildup but he still can not do anything on his own and the doctor knows that. He still can’t get in out of bed by himself etc. I was very upset when I left yesterday. My heart goes out to anyone having to deal with things of this nature alone. He needs 24 hour care and he knows that. I think he’s in denial and I understand that . But if he refuses the NH or help in the home.. there is nothing else I can do.
They sit all day plotting their “ escape plans”.
Yes, the doctor came to see him yesterday while I was there. He looked at my dad and asked what are his plans after discharge and he said “ Go home.”. The doctor then looked at me and I said this.. He can not stay at home alone , it is not safe and I will be not be there. Well then he said he would reevaluate him next week to see and he might need to go to NH for awhile for continued therapy. He has lost some fluid buildup but he still can not do anything on his own and the doctor knows that. He still can’t get in out of bed by himself etc. I was very upset when I left yesterday. My heart goes out to anyone having to deal with things of this nature alone. He needs 24 hour care and he knows that. I think he’s in denial and I understand that . But if he refuses the NH or help in the home.. there is nothing else I can do.
Actually imo this makes it easier for Beauty to disentangle herself from him, as the hospital has a discharge planner as a paid employee of the hospital. So their job is to find placement for patients about to be discharged. The go-to that is easiest will be to have him written up to be a post-hospitalization rehab discharge to a NH with a rehab sector as Medicare will pay for pretty much a guaranteed 20/21 days. The discharge planner then finds the NH unless family want to get involved. But this family does not want to be involved!
Beauty - your dad being sent to rehab at a NH is what you want to have happen. And you want the discharge planner to take the lead on this 100%. Let them find and do the placement. You stand back and do not give in to either Dads pleading or if the planner wants to give you this monkey to deal with cause “your family”. It’s the planners job and it's a pretty seamless as part of the overall hospitalization process. He has the insurance (Medicare) to totally pay the initial rehab time and has the big fat hospital chart that shows rehab is necessary. After the fist 20/21 Medicare covers @ 50% and his secondary health insurance more than likely covers the other 50%. There is little you need to do to make this happen or to get for him while he’s a rehab patient in a NH. He is very much under MD and therapist orders as per his discharge instructions. If he whines about stuff, it’s bs, so turn a deaf ear.
& when he fails to “progress” in his rehab sufficiently to continue the Medicare rehab billing, the NH will have to - HAVE TO - find a safe and secure way for him to leave. Again the NH has to find a way for him to leave as he’s there in a skilled nursing facility under Medicare and Medicare requires a safe and secure transport to a facility with “like” abilities. Which either means he moves from being a rehab patient to become a long term custodial care resident in this NH or another NH, OR, the NH finds a legit reasoning to call EMS to have him taken to the ED/ER of a hospital and then the NH will not take him back so he once again he becomes an placement issue for the hospital discharge planner.
personally if it were me, I’d make myself scarce while he is in the hospital these next 2 weeks and then also at the rehab. So they can see that the daughter is not coming around daily being super involved. And the times you do go make it clear, it’s just a brief visit and you are not - NOT - taking him into your home or back to his home. Use the mantra I posted about earlier & make it part of every convo you have with staff.
Also should the hospital tell you there are all sorts of IHHS in-home health services that dad can get. Forgetabtit as that is so not happening as all those type of community based programs are very limited to # of hrs AND require a family member to be there doing all the rest of the 24/7 oversight & care all the rest of the time. Don’t let anyone buffalo or guiltify, you on this.
"Use the mantra I posted about earlier & make it part of every convo you have with staff".
Yes!
Like Ping Pong.
Staff throw you Dad's problems - Ping! "You can discuss that with my Father".
Dad expects you to catch too - Pong! "You can discuss that with staff".
Ping Pong Dad's issues back to Dad.
Sometimes someone kind-hearted, big-hearted has been trained to be the *helper* all their life. Be a good girl & do... what a great help you are.. it's not evil. Just being trained up to be useful. But.. the power imbalance of adult : child can sometimes be misused. A parent can assume their child is their servant. This is wrong - can slide into abuse.
So to step back, walk away, say no, can feel like a huge dent to that self-worth of being a helper/kind-hearted. Being *good*.
This can be all-or-nothing thinking.
I must help - or I am not good.
I must fix their problem - or I am not good.
I must do as they say - or I am not good.
Silly right?
What about respect instead?
Eg I respect it is your decision Dad.
To choose LTC, rehab, home with adequate services or home alone with none. You are free to decide - also free to change your mind.
However, you cannot decide for me. Cannot decide about my job, my time or what I will do.
A person can be very big-hearted, be proud of that, be respectful - but not a servant.
((((Hugs)))) and Courage to you !!!!
You can do this 👍🏻.
You are having trouble abruptly walking away. It can be hard because it is in your nature to be kindhearted.
You have already told your dad that you will not be caring for him. That’s done.
Why do you feel like you must meet with the staff?
If you are feeling like you shouldn’t walk away without personally addressing any issues, you can easily write a note saying that you are not going to be involved any longer in your father’s care.
All loose ends will be wrapped up with the least amount of stress. You can be at peace with not having to interact with the staff directly.
Think of it as writing a letter of resignation. Briefly explain your reasons only if you want to. You don’t owe them any explanation if you would rather not state your reasons.
Wishing you all the best as you transition into living peacefully on the other side of this difficult situation.
Many of us here worked well with discharge planners because we had mentally well, non-abusive parents who understood that they needed to go to LTC, and discharge planners who understood without asking that none of the professionals ("the kids") in the meeting was going to be providing care. The question never arose.
FB has only recently returned to work. She has an abusive, entitled father who has already told family members that her job is temporary and that she will be quitting to provide him with care in his home. Her relatives are already piling on with the "you are obligated to do this" speeches, making her feel guilty, doubtful of her own stance and vulnerable.
Our fear is that she will agree to look at homes. And then be persuaded to become POA. And end up being called relentlessly by her abusive father to fix this, that and the other thing. And to take him home.
That's my worry. Which is why I'm thinking that backing off now might be a good idea.
I agree FB is vulnerable , as she stated
she has “ bigger heart “.
I did too and it took a long time to recover and get my life back .
It’s so easy to get lost in FOG .
If so, I’d suggest that you use any visit and any conversation with his MDs and the facility to let them know that you “there is no safe and secure discharge in his home to return to as you will not be there AND you will not be involved in his placement & that in addition - as you are not his POA - that you will not and cannot sign off to any responsibility for his placement”. Should anyone continue to try to push responsibility onto you, tell them “my father abused me in my childhood” and that “due to this it is beyond difficult to discuss this further”. Case closed. Be fixed and firm with this. Walk out of the NH or a meeting if need be.
Your dad will try his best to continue to emesh you in FOG.
He has been wildly successful in doing this in the past, but no longer!
He will deny or deflect from whatever happened in your childhood to you & your mom. As will other family members.
You owe him & them zero.
We are here for you.
Please listen to those who are telling you to stop being involved. You are not obligated to meet with anyone. Your dad and the staff can work this out without your input.
Don’t place this burden upon yourself. You had no control over things as a child but you do now.
Years ago, my mother asked me to look after my oldest brother’s welfare after he had a serious accident.
I checked in on him at the hospital for my mom. Very soon afterwards I realized that I couldn’t be any part of his care due to how he lived his life.
I told my mother that he was her son, not mine and that I was not going to get involved with his care at all.
Mom wasn’t happy about it at first but eventually realized that it was for the best that I walked away from helping him.
I didn’t attend any meetings to sort out his future care.
I was sick and tired of his manipulation and completely walked away. He asked to move into my home which was never going to happen. I didn’t see him again until shortly before he died in a hospice facility. I took my mom to say goodbye to her first born son.
Look after yourself now. The rest will fall into place however it does. You can help him by showing him how to help himself.
A lot of times people will listen to other people far better than family members, and if they don’t they will suffer the consequences of their actions.
If you want the state to take over tell them you are not able to take care of him and are not available in any way in the planning of his care . Let social workers find a facility .
My fear is if you get involved, it will be a huge mess because your father may refuse to go to a facility . Then it will be a headache for you being stuck with him if they decide he’s able to make decisions and discharge him to his home . They are more likely to do that if a family member is in the conversation .
Sometimes it’s best to say you can’t help in any way and walk away , so then the hospital can force your father to go to a facility .
Also no matter what ….do not be his transportation anywhere , he will refuse to get out of the car if you take him to a nursing home .
Three times the hospital tried to get me to be transportation to take my parents to rehab. I refused every-time because I knew my parents would demand I take them home and they would refuse to get out of the car if I took them from the hospital to rehab . I made the hospital arrange ambulette service. And now my husband always does the same with his father as well . These old people lie to these hospital social workers and say “ Oh yeah my daughter can pick me up “. Nope . Don’t do it .
*I must help* vs *how much can I reasonably do*
Not now. I have clearer vision to what I will or will not do.
Past incidents of refusal to go to respite/rehab, stalling, manipulation - performances of passive aggressive feigned inability to get in or out of the car - actual mobility problems, incontinence.
All this now falls under the heading of "No. Need another option".
By meeting with discharge planning and social workers, by meeting with doctors (your responses below), by being involved with your father you are painting yourself into a corner of BEING responsible for your father. You are participating in his discharge plans and his care. That is making yourself responsible. You need not to be meeting with all these folks and to tell them that you are not responsible if you don't want to BE responsible. Otherwise, in many ways you are making yourself responsible and I can only wish you good luck with what is your own choice for your life.