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My 86 y/o mom lives in her own home. Very messy (we're working on it) and cluttered (also working on it). She wants to stay there. My sisters and I are supporting her by shopping, meal prep, bathing, handling finances. But we all have our own stuff, too. One sister lives an hour away, one lives a half hour away and has a very demanding job. I'm close and so is another sib.


We need to get her house decluttered and fixed up, but meanwhile we also need a caregiver to come in for x hours a day, to help with daily tasks, help her remember to eat, brush teeth, take meds on time, etc. Mom has beginning dementia, her short term memory is shot.


Are there caregivers willing to be in a cluttered, less than optimal environment? How do we approach this, what should we ask, expect, etc.?

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It’s difficult enough to work with the elderly without it being a messy, cluttered environment. Perhaps have a cleaning service do a thorough cleaning and you and your sisters take a full day to declutter.
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Define messy, that could mean anything from needs a really good cleaning to something from an episode of Hoarders😕
An agency is more likely to have minimum standards of health and safety in order to protect their workers, but if you hire privately you'd be surprised at what some people will tolerate in order to earn their living.
(the acid test is - would you send your daughter to work there?)
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no2daughter Sep 2018
I would say her house is in the not too bad of a hoarder range. Not disgusting or anything but stuff is falling apart and there is an accumulation, surfaces are stacked with stuff, dust under there and stuff like that.

Your question was a good one. I appreciate your thoughts, thank you so much, cwillie.
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I would pursue a caregiver that would be willing to help mom declutter.

It may cost a bit more but it would be well worth the money to have someone that would listen to the stories and give mom some mental activity in getting her home to a less cluttered space.

The only situation that I am sure caregivers would not want is a filthy cockroach infested place.

Life is messy, clean it up! Living life tends to make a mess. This is absolutely okay. Once it is decluttered it will be easier to maintain on a daily basis, make that part of the job description.

When you interview potential candidates you will know if they are willing to work for their paycheck by clarifying that this is going to be an ongoing part of the job. Depending on the state of things it could take some time to get it all together, so be reasonable and realistic about progress. Mostly keep an eye on how well mom is doing, this is the best gauge you have.

I hope you find a good fit and it helps mom feel useful and needed.
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no2daughter Sep 2018
Thanks for your quick and thoughtful response.

A kind and caring person who is trustworthy is our goal for our mom. We love her so much. She's tended to buy in bulk over the years and the house isn't big. There's 'stuff,' some personal, some not. Papers. LOADS of paperwork, old mags, cards, stuff like that. Old vitamins she bought, stuff she forgot she bought. The bathroom is cluttered but clean. The kitchen counters are relatively clear of clutter. Her bedding is clean, you can walk through the house from liv to bedroom to bathroom to kitchen. Kitchen table is loaded with stuff. Problem with all that stuff is that it precludes cleaning surfaces. The carpet is threadbare, kitchen tile is older than the hills and worn down...you get the idea. Not a hell-hole but not optimal for our mom. We have cleaned in the past and she messed it up again. . .

So this has been an ongoing thing for many years and we are not willing to let it continue. Clearing clutter wouldn't necessarily be part of a caregiver's job although that could change. I was wondering if the state of her home would be a deal-breaker, and from the sounds of your response, the answer seems to be maybe not.

Thank you again for your response, Isthisrealyreal.
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I know it's difficult and the situation is not optimal. We girls have researched cleaning services thoroughly, and we have costs and all that. We need to get in there first and continue to go through her personal stuff, that's first. We're donating a lot and selling some stuff on my mom's behalf, she gets the money of course. There's a lot--decades worth. We know we have a long road ahead of us, one way or another. More than a day, unfortunately.

Thanks you for your input, UsedupDIL. Much appreciated.
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I would consider having the caregiver declutter. Most caregivers are expected to do cleaning and stay busy while on the job.

If they balk at helping get things in order, they are probably not team players and you will be dealing with a bunch of "that's not my job!" Crappy attitude.

I think that a caring person understands that things get old and/or neglected, not the end of the world, just some time and effort to get it back on track.

Remember that you are trusting this/these individuals with your moms very life, if they can't be trusted with stuff, they surely cannot be trusted, period.

I hope you find the solution you are looking for.
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cwillie Sep 2018
I used to clean houses and my line in the sand was I wouldn't do clutter, I'd pick it up to clean under it and tidy the piles but IMO it's just too difficult for an outsider to separate the trash from the treasure.
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k12144, thank you for your thoughtful response. Sounds like your situation is similar to my mom's in that you lack the space to support your 'stuff.' My mom's home is kind of small and there's no garage, so everything she has is either in the basement (which is beast we're not even going to attempt to tackle now) or the upstairs. Three bedroom home, two of which are packed with 'stuff'.

We've been tackling that 'stuff' for a year now. Sometimes my mom wants to be involved in that, and sometimes she doesn't. Like a lot of things, we generally play it by ear. Perhaps a caregiver could clear out obvious stuff like old magazines and junk mail, things like that.

Lots to think about. Again, thanks for weighing in, k12144.
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k12144 Sep 2018
Yes, that's precisely it. Cleaning out my mom's place sucks... she knew it would suck... why she didn't have the energy to do it herself over the years! (And I didn't push it, because I'm overwhelmed by clutter, too. And because I hate when people tell me I need to get rid of things, so I wasn't about to do it to someone else.)

Small steps, if you can (I don't have a lot of time, so I don't have that luxury). You/she might feel better if she can choose who some things go to or where they might be donated/sold to (there's some stuff of my mom's that will make me feel better if it doesn't just go to an anonymous thrift-store shelf, for example).
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cwillie, re: I used to clean houses and my line in the sand was I wouldn't do clutter, I'd pick it up to clean under it and tidy the piles but IMO it's just too difficult for an outsider to separate the trash from the treasure.

That's one of our concerns, for sure. And for my sisters and me, our priority is our mom and not her 'stuff.' although its that 'stuff' that has compounded the difficulty of this entire process. Her house is like a dang albatross; like the elephant in the room. Problem is, at this stage of the game, it's up to my sisters and me to try to move that damn thing, get it out of there and meanwhile, we're also tasked with supporting our mom, keeping her safe and attending to her needs while trying to balance our own lives. . .

I know, I know--join the club, right?

Thanks again, cwillie.
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k12144 Sep 2018
I wouldn't want to do clutter as a stranger, either. At best, I wouldn't know where to put it; at worst, I'd be afraid to get rid of stuff. Even with my mom, I wouldn't start the cleaning before she died because even though she wouldn't even ever know, doing it behind her back without her input seemed wrong, even though I knew starting early would make the job easier.

Yes, I know precisely how you feel. Worrying about healthcare workers and such coming in, worry (for me, at least) that they would look around and think I was not doing a good job caring for her by letting her live like that and call in the state, etc. You have my sympathy because, OMG do I understand.
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I would set up three bins.

#1 for obvious trash, ie old mail with no significant information.

#2 for old magazines to be donated to a NH or senior center

#3 for everything that doesn't meet the top 2 criteria.

This will make your job easier, 1 bin to decide what needs to be done with items in it.

Then the same with clothes.

#1 bin for rags, clothes that have no more wear in them. (Donate these as rags, charities sell them to companies that need disposable cloth rags)

#2 for wrong sizes, doesn't like etc. To be donated.

#3 unsure, for you to determine.

You are not hiring a housekeeper, you are hiring an aid for mom, so the no go rules will be different.

This can be done one small area at a time, with you or sister only disposing of garbage and taking donations box, that would give all peace of mind that it is being handled appropriately.

Just my 2 cents from people I know in the field and what they are willing to do.
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no2daughter Sep 2018
Your 2 cents are invaluable, Isthisrealyreal, esp. as this is uncharted territory for my mom and for us, her daughters. The issue of her home compounds the more pressing issue of her cognitive decline and everything that goes along with that.

Thank you again, Isthisrealyreal.
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To k12144
re: your response starting 'Yes, that's precisely it. . .'

Yep. Small steps, so as not to overwhelm my mom (or us). We'd had that plan in place to get a company in to do a fast 'clean up' but that didn't pan out logistically. So we girls will be plodding along with that, involving our mom in choices relative to what to keep, donate, pitch, sell.

With caveats, of course. Those bottles of vitamins from 1976 have got to go...

Thanks again, k12144.
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My sister in law went through this to find aides for her aunt who suffered with hoarding and the answer is yes, you can find someone but it might be harder to do.
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no2daughter Sep 2018
Hopefully, it won't be too arduous a task for us. It's heartening to hear that help can be found, though.
Thank you, Marcia7321.
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I tried getting help for my mother's hoarding/messy apartment. She'd get mad at them when they threw something away - or tried to. The last one sat with her to clean out the fridge - it was a total disaster! Mom doesn't ever want to throw anything away - and all of her surroundings reflect that. I went thru 5 different caregivers/helpers, etc. Now she lives in an Adult Foster Care home and her room is a mess.

She tries to 'sort' and organize and usually gets too tired and is unable to accomplish the task. It's always as if an explosion just occurred and she says 'I'm working with that stuff'...

Of course the answer is to downsize - I liked the list above about which things to remove - that don't fit, etc. But mom always has an excuse about why she should keep clothing - even if it doesn't fit 'now' - it might someday. 'sigh'
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no2daughter Oct 2018
I'm sorry you've had such a difficult time, SueGeo. It's not easy, I know. My mom has become less wedded to her stuff so that's a good thing, but not the main thing. I was wondering if a caregiver would consider taking on a position if the environment was less than optimal. Your experience with multiple caregivers is disheartening, but she needs more help so we're going to move forward with doing what we can to support her, clear the clutter, and get extra help.

Good luck with everything, SueGeo.
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Hi,I am a caregiver of 30’years and I take care of patients in their homes.A good caregiver will take on her care no matter what. I have decluttered homes (at family instructions) and as a part of ur Mothers care keeping her environment clean and safe is one of the many things that a caregiver should want to do as it is very important also..I do know with agencies they have their own policies and procedures.But if u hire an individual privately they should know this has to be done and is a part of her care..The care and her safety ( with clutter) should be expected to be done while they r with ur loved one. One should never pay anyone to just sit when they are caring for ur loved one.Good luck with finding a person that does what needs to be done with a happy face and a huge compassionate heart.
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no2daughter Oct 2018
I wish I could hire you, Starheel4ever. Exactly, exactly what we are looking for, for our dear mom. She deserves no less and we owe that to her.

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond today. You give me hope.
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My guess is no, because nobody wants to work in a less-than-safe environment. But money speaks. At the right price, I am sure you’ll find someone.
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no2daughter Oct 2018
I tend to think you're right about that, Worriedspouse. We're doing what we can on our end to get the decades worth of 'stuff' out of there, so we can get her house cleaned, painted, new carpet and kitchen floor, drapes and all. Not an easy task. But we can't wait until all that is done, she needs more support now so we have to move forward and hope we find the right person for the job.

Thank you for responding, Worriedspouse. Much appreciated.
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I understand your situation. My mom is 90 and lives in a house by herself. She is a true hoarder, all 3 bedrooms floor to ceiling stuff ( can’t get in . 1 bathroom full of boxes and stuff hall has piles of stuff all the way down, kitchen piled full not useable only can cook with microwave, den has a path to her chair with the floor covered with magazines, newspaper and old mail, living room is piled full of stuff, hard to walk around. She won’t let anyone in because she’s scared someone will turn her in . House has not been cleaned in 30 years. I am an only child and live 8 hours away. I have to stay in a hotel when I go up and she gets mad when I show up. If I touch anything in the house she explodes and screams, cries and yells. Once I tried to throw out a Pringle’s can empty and she exploded. I worry if she falls on all this stuff she will need help and nobody would find her. My mom won’t give anyone a key not even me and won’t give anyone power of attorney or sign the HIPPA forms. If my mom ever needed care in the home no one would go in there . It smells and is unsafe. Parts of the floor is falling in and the asphyxiates in the floor has cracked and is exposed. I really don’t know what to do and worry every minute of every day. Oh and on top of everything she is stone deaf even with a hearing aide.
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cetude Oct 2018
one day she will fall with all that clutter and may not be able to get up. She could die that way. Even if she manages to call 911 the ambulance drivers will see the environment and wonder about the family who let it go this far and is a mandatory reporting incident to authorities.
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In many cases part of a caregivers job description reads.."light housekeeping" so you can ask the person you hire to help out with a few things as well.
Do not have them toss things out or begin to "declutter" but she or he can clean an area after you have completed what you are doing. I am not talking about "deep" cleaning but dusting, vacuum, and a light mopping of the floor.
I would say most caregivers have "seen it all" and as long as it is "safe" for them as well as your Mom you should not have a problem finding someone.
I would think it is more common than we would like to think that many seniors are finding it difficult to clean as well as they used to and or toss things out.

I know of one caregiver that turned down a job in a house that is/was almost a hoarder type house but that is not the reason they turned down the job..the reason is the woman that needed the caregiver and her husband both smoke and the woman is on oxygen. The caregiver did not feel that it was a safe place for her to work.
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Get your mom a med ready pill dispenser. You can buy or rent them. I would buy as I probably paid for my mom's four or five times over. It will dispense 28 doses of pills. So if she takes pills twice a day, you can set it for that. The machine can be a tad tricky until you get used to setting it. Always make sure the little lever is toward the middle and the door down when you lock the machine. It beeps when they need to take their meds, and they slide the little door up and there is the dose. My mom had Alzheimers but the machine was easy for her to use. And yes, most CNA's are used to all kinds of living conditions. Of course it's always more fun to take care of someone in a perfect environment but it's not a perfect world. Just let her know you are working on it.
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she must be rich to be able to hire a caregiver. Sitters are about $20 an hour. Hands on care is about $30-$40 an hour. One way or another the "system" will eat up her assets. the cost of care is expensive. If you hire someone ongoing--unless you pay under the table (which there is NO record where the money went if she needs to go on medicaid later) you will become their legal employer which means you have to take out taxes...and if you go that route and they CLAIM to get injured in her home, that person she hires can sue the estate for injuries. That's why I use an agency who is licensed and insured...the alleged injured worker will go on Workman's Compensation.
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You & your sisters are such wonderful daughters. I chuckled because there were 3 of us helping Mom stay “independent” in her home & we had the same distance logistics. An hour away (me), a half hour away (brother), & local (sister). It brought back memories.

Your mom’s place sounded like my mom’s was. The 3-box approach (toss, donate, keep) was very helpful to us. We (well, me, because my sister’s tolerance level for the clutter & filth was much higher than mine) at first focused on the rooms she used all the time — living room, bathroom, kitchen, her bedroom. Meanwhile, we hired an aide who was focused solely on mom’s day-to-day care. Since Mom wouldn’t let her do any light housekeeping at all, I ended up hiring someone else to do the cleaning once a month. Keeping those responsibilities separate was actually easier for everyone.

If you do the 3-box approach, perhaps you & your sisters could each “own” a room to do. Then way it’s easier to pick up from the last time you were there.

And we delegated to the aide the bathing chore, as she had much more experience in that area.

My in-laws’ place, on the other hand, was positively filthy. So bad that my sister-in-law, their own daughter, flat out refused to set foot in the place to help. There was no way we could expect an aide to jeopardize their own health by going in there. Thankfully, it sounds like you will never reach that stage.
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Hoarding can be a symptom of dementia or of mental illness which progresses as the person ages. Has your mother been diagnosed? Adult Protective Services sometimes will have a person removed from the home, if it is considered an unsafe environment which your mother's environment sounds like. Maybe your mother would respond a little better to a stranger, a social worker? No easy solutions, unfortunately.
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No2daughter,
My folks did not want outside people rummaging through all of their things, as it stressed them out big time. The way I handled it was .. small projects, over time. My folks had old medicines, old newspapers and magazines, clothes, etc. I would just try to organize one thing at a time... if there’s a ton of paper (mail, old magazines, etc.,) I would sort, organize, then dispose. I handled it all (maybe your siblings could help), then leave The caregiving to the caregivers. Caregivers can still help do things like wash the clothes you want to keep, wipe down counters, organize/ clean a pantry, dust, etc., as you (or your siblings decide what stays and goes) & the main areas that need to be organized. Give yourself time. The main thing is help your mom get a good caregiver. We struggled with caregivers who wanted to sit and be on their phones and not put forth much effort to care for mom. His mighty blessings to you and your mom. Your mom has a blessing in you!!
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You could try babysteps if your mom is still able to be out of the house a few hours at a time. Perhaps 1 or 2 siblings could take her out to lunch, hairdresser, shopping, drive out to a favorite park or go leaf peeping, etc while others clean one specific area/item: expired meds & foods; magazines, newspapers & junk mail; clothing & linens. Then swap roles the next time. Or maybe a sleepover long weekend with one child while the others tackle entire rooms. It absolutely is best if your mom is on board with the whole cleaning, painting, sprucing up plan. If she totally doesn't want her home & stuff messed with there is not much you can do. Does she really agree to having in home help? That could be part of any resistance to cleaning, repairing, etc. If cleaning & repairing has been mentioned in conjunction with having someone come in to help her & she (secretly? reluctantly?) doesn't want help, then nothing will get done on cleaning or hiring. My guess is your mom loves having the personal time with each of you & has some mixed feelings about being "abandoned" & cared for by a stranger. Hugs to you & best wishes for a positive resolution for all of you!
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When I worked ELder Care, one of my "jobs" was to help my client de clutter and sort through her things. She had an enormous house, and every closet was jam packed. I worked for about 2 years for her, and when she was at last moved to an ALF, everything but family mementoes were gone. I would ALWAYS make a very detailed list of what we had purged, so somebody in the family would not come back later and be angry.

If I was given a filing cabinet and told to shred EVERYTHING inside, I did so.

Her home was so huge the "hoarding" was not really apparent. But it was still an issue.

I no longer care for my mother, who lives in an 800 sf totally hoarded apartment with YB family. It was heartbreaking and depressing to help her "organize", as she would simply churn through things and after 3 days of hard work, maybe a small garbage bag would go out. She's happy with it like this, I'm sickened. It's NOT hygienic and I wouldn't eat anything she makes....but she feels "hugged" by all the stuff. Someday soon she will be bedridden and then we can make the cleanout changes that need to be done.

In a case like hers--I would have a really hard time working for someone who was as bad a hoarder as she is. Claustrophobia would get to me, fast.
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Once you've shortlisted your candidates and done security checks and what have you, do the final interviews in the home. Your perfect candidate is the one who does a bit of a Mary Poppins and looks on keeping reasonable order as part of the job. This person may also have helpful ideas to contribute to sorting out the muddle.

And don't be downhearted. Although many professional caregivers may prefer a pristine environment, some people like "homely" and want to feel really needed.

Best of luck!
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HomeHealthCare workers never cared about the condition of our home and said they take precautions like sitting on pads and using sanitizers.

They all said they don't care what the home looks like as long as they can reach the patient.
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Countrymouse Oct 2018
As long as they can reach the patient! - lol!

Mind you, they may have seen some extreme examples in their time. I do always think of Mr Trebus when people worry about their elders' less-than-ideal homes: it is amazing what conditions can be survivable. Google 'Mr Trebus, Life of Grime.'
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Any caregiver has that prerogative but I doubt that would be an issue. The only thing I ever refused to deal with was a home with bugs. There are people who happily share their home with bugs and allow them to proliferate. That is the only thing I would refuse to do. As far as household organizing, that stuff is kinda fun and can help me to feel more useful during the client's down time.
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I was in a situation like this. I had to clean up, throw out expired food, expired over the counter the counter meds. sanitize the unit. The patient was angry but the place was clean.
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Tell your caregiver that you interview, what you need an expect, she will let you know what she is willing to do, if not, keep interviewing untill you find her! The best to you,💝
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Dear Number 2 Daughter,

So many answers and good esperiences shared with you already.

From my experiences, clutter and grime are not deterrents to a professional caregiver.

You’ll want to protect your family from liability.

The caregiver must must be able to safely do their job. They must be able to exit the home in an emergency without obstacles. They must be able to work without being bitten/stung (pests and pets included) or exposed to chemical or bio hazardous substances. They should have access to a restroom and clean water.

And, before you begin to address the cleaning - remove or secure valuables and personal information from the home.

Best of of luck to you.
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That will depend on the candidate you hire.
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Dad is a hoarder, not to the extent of the TV programs, but none the less he collects stuff. Lots of papers, books, tinned food etc. The worst of it is outside in and around sheds.

Having said that I was able to arrange for home support for him. His lady comes in every two weeks and cleans the kitchen and bathroom, plus sweeps/washes the floors. It is not possible for her to dust, too much clutter.
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