3 years of NPD harassment continues, what happens when I file a stalking order against mother?

WOW
The answer is that probably no one wants their mother in jail but what's the alternative? Abusing is never okay. Personally, I wouldn't hesitate to do whatever is necessary to keep her from contacting everyone and anyone and to keep my sanity. Ive had experience with someone who's a narcissist and you will never win at anything. They're always right and nothing you do will change that. They just want to inflict whatever drama they can on you. Get her put away and become invisible to her!! If you don't respond or acknowledge her in any way it will keep her from getting what she wants.

Concentrate on the abuse, and don’t use the expression ‘mental illness’. Once it get classed as a mental illness, it seems even harder to get anything done about it. A spell in jail may give her time to rethink what is in her own best interests when she gets out. It may in fact be in her own best interests. Hope that’s the case, and go ahead as there seems no other way to cope.

Have you called the police ONLY about mom's suicide threats? Or have you filed a criminal complaint for digital harassment with YOUR police department? IIRC, your mom doesn't live in San Fran, but elsewhere - possibly Florida? I doubt this is going to rate enough of a crime to generate interest across country. But by all means, file the order anyway...IF....

IF you decide to take out a restraining order, and IF mom gets arrested, are YOU prepared to go ahead with prosecution? Don't point a weapon at someone if you're not fully prepared to use it, otherwise it's likely to end up being used against you.

Sorry, but given your past history with mom, any order you MAY finally decide to file against mom will not help, because you are so enmeshed in this dynamic with your mother you can't see your way clear. Otherwise, you would have pressed charges years ago. Unless you are sure you will 1) call the police if she violates said order and 2) agree to cooperate with prosecution of the crime of violating said order, whatever that prosecution might entail, don't bother yourself. If you're not willing to follow through to the end, then that restraining order isn't worth the cost of the ink to print it.

For those unfamiliar with ocdTrauma's former posts to us, I suggest reading prior posts before response to this one. This situation is now years in the making.

OCD, it isn't that I don't sympathize with your side of this whole long ongoing trauma, but to suggest you are still a 50% partner in it not by choice but because of "guilt" isn't appropriate.

I don't want to reread all the old posts but I know I will have told you that guilt requires causation out of evil intent.
That isn't the case here.
I am also certain I must have recommended to you Liz Scheier's memoir Never Simple, about her attempts to deal with her mother's mental illness for decades. All to no avail. Her mother died as crazy as ever she was, homeless, in advanced age. You cannot help those who do not wish to be helped. Nor can you act for the mentally ill; the law doesn't allow it.

Really, what you are in the middle of is a sort of self-harming of yourself through bad decision making on your own part.
I would seek help of mental health professional in your area and seek counseling for yourself. I would also suggest that stay away orders would be appropriate now. When your mother disobeys said restraining orders she will be addressed by the POLICE, not by you.
That will be done through an attorney and the court system.

A forum of strangers is unlikely to be of much help to you. We can listen. We can say "Oh, dear, we are so sorry all this is still going on. But we, as you, are helpless in this.

Just a postscript here, because I think you haven't been on the Forum for some time, if you aren't aware that NeedsHelp is no longer on the Forum. That I know of, none of the regulars know why, but she was undergoing medical treatment at the time she disappeared off our page.

As to what will happen? Your question to us? Given your mom's level of mental illness probably quite a lot unless she dies first. And I think you can count on expecting the unexpected. You have dealt with this for a long time now to the best of your ability. My advice is always to move about 1,000 miles away from this sort of thing, because it is without an answer and without a solution. It's end is always as it's beginning and it's daily on-goingness--a crucible.
I am so sorry for your pain.

If you file a Restraining Order/Protective order against your mother keep in mind it's a process and you have to have Iron Clad evidence that she's doing this. So gather all your evidence that you know 100% is from her, meet with an attorney and go over the process. Do NOT file this in Pro Se. Have a harsh blunt conversation with your attorney that your mother is mentally ill and you have the proof that she is stalking you. Once the paper work is filled your mother will be notified by the court of the time and date of the hearing. Be prepared that your mother will likely engage an attorney. To people with NPD this action is a declaration of war. You will need to go absolutely NO Contact with your mother, don't engage her, don't text and don't show any emotions.

There are excellent videos on Youtube on how to Gray Rock a Narc. You might take a look at some of those.

When you meet with your Attorney make sure that they are a Family Law expert in the Jurisdictions where the incidents have happened.

Also you might mention that since you are doing this after 3 years of constant stalking and want a final exit to this you don't mind employing a "total war" or "salt the earth" philosophy to your attorney's approach. They will know what you are needing.

All I can say is OMG....you really are still wrapped up in your mentally ills mother nonsense after all these years, and letting it control your life. That is so beyond sad that someone would intentionally choose to live like that and yet you do.
I don't think there is anything any of us can say at this point to make you make better choices for yourself and your marriage(I'm actually shocked that you're still married to be honest) as this has been going on for far too long, so I will just say that anyone that would continue to put up with all of this ridiculous nonsense from their mother must themselves suffer from mental illness as well.

Very small help suggestion here (relative to the huge problem!), but you should be able to block her IP address from your website, either by a very narrow range of IP addresses, or a broader range if necessary, assuming your business doesn’t need contact with her immediate neighborhood. If your site is built using Wordpress, look for a plugin called “Wordfence.” Basic function is free, but probably worth it for the control even if you upgrade to paid use.

If your site is built on some other platform, ask the hosting service for similar controls.

Your website shouldn’t be a vulnerability in your life and business, but an asset.

"...who wants to put their mother in jail?"

You. You should.

Was none of the past advice given to you of your liking?

Why are you back here posting when *you know* the answer?

You've been circling the drain around this drama trying to keep it alive on this forum.

Why?

Stop wasting our time.

https://www.agingcare.com/questions/2-years-no-solutions-npdbpd-mother-will-starve-herself-to-death-and-die-488339.htm

https://www.agingcare.com/questions/narcissistic-personality-disorder-is-real-nothing-left-to-do-constantly-called-a-murderer-484131.htm

https://www.agingcare.com/questions/request-for-ongoing-support-of-narcissist-mother-who-threatens-calls-emails-nonstop-for-years-483581.htm

https://www.agingcare.com/questions/estranged-mother-threats-and-harassment-any-advice-478495.htm

https://www.agingcare.com/questions/misery-manipulation-and-threats-continue-any-advice-477574.htm

https://www.agingcare.com/questions/mothers-constant-misery-is-destructive-she-wont-live-anywhere-any-advice-476776.htm

This is the answer ,
You can’t force your mother to get help . Cut her off totally and file a restraining order . But you have to follow through . You can not back pedal. This is a case where you walk away and leave it up to God . Cutting ties is hard but possible.

The problem is you want a different answer where Mom gets help , is happy and in a nice house and traveling . That is not going to happen .

My husband had a coworker whose son never got over survivor guilt . He was a passenger in his friend’s car . His friend was driving , and died when the car crashed . The survivor ended up mentally breaking down just after finishing college He became homeless , refused help . His mother lost touch with him , even hired a PI to find him . She ended up having to stop looking and “ leave it up to God “.

Your mother will not change . Leave it up to God .

I'm sorry about your difficult situation. We can't tell you what will happen because we don't know what your mom will do if you seek a restraining order or a cease and desist order, and we don't know what you will do in response to whatever your mom does.

There are a few options in this case.

Welbutrin is good for depression and has an off label use for OCD.

People have used Luvox which is a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor for OCD for a few decades at least, and many have good results.

The best one in my opinion which has helped in hoarding cases is called clomipramine and it is an older tricyclic antidepressant. I am not a medical professional, just someone that has had a lot of experience with OCD and other types of anxiety related disorders including hoarding.

Many times people with your condition don't end up with the right medicine because not everyone is experienced with OCD. Often times they try to put you on an SSRI and hope for the best, the theory being that reducing the anxiety will prevent OCD symptoms from flaring. I have never found this to be the case, hence why you will see so many untreated OCD patients all over and you'll hear professionals describe OCD as very hard to treat. It is challenging, yes, but it is not impossible. You can be helped.

Yes, these suggestions are for you. I've read a lot of your postings and the people's responses. I can tell you that your behavior is absolutely indicative of untreated OCD and anxiety running wild and that you will never fix this with talk therapy. You need serious medication intervention in order to break you out of this loop in your mind. The worst part is that if you were to solve your problem with your mom, you would just find another thing to obsess over compulsively, just as the name suggests. OCD is obsessive compulsive disorder. I understand that there was some sort of Asian piety thrown in there, and perhaps Jewish guilt. These things are irrelevant to the main concern which is to break yourself out of these thought loops. You can't think yourself out of them, nor talk yourself out of them either. I can tell you've had some sort of therapeutic intervention because it seems like someone advised you to have things run through your husband. That is fine if you then don't obsess to or over him, which you are. And that can't be helped until you get some of the proper medication.

This is not your fault, and if you could stop this you would. No reasonable speaking to you or amount of thinking will ever get through to you. You understand this isn't about where your mom lives, and I think intellectually you understand that this is unhealthy but you can't stop. This is because you need medical help for OCD and I really hope you get it.

Don't just go to any dr, you are in San Francisco and you are well off or you would not have a house there. Look around for specialists in OCD and walk in with the names of the medicines I told you. Say you heard from someone who had success with these and you want medical pros to help you. Tell them yes, you want Cognitive Behavior Therapy as well, once you are started on the right medications. It may take some time to get on the right cocktail but you will be much happier when you finally get it right. This has completely taken over your life. It makes no sense to the other people on this board and they think you're doing this for attention. They don't understand that this is a loop in your head that you can never break on your own.

Explain to the doctor that you are obsessing over your mother but it's not about her, she is simply something that is triggering your EXTREME anxiety and you can't stop but you want to stop. I will tell you that you will be able to take care of your mother in an appropriate manner when your own condition is taken care of, and it will all take less time and energy than what you are doing now. I wish you good luck and good health. Again, not a medical professional, just someone who sees your struggle and is telling you what has worked for many people I've known with this same situation.

You have legit issues with your mom's treatment of you and I am sure there is the hope for her love but the main problem is untreated OCD.

New thought ,
At this point do you even know that it’s really your mother all on her own demanding the money from you ? Or are you being catfished?
Is Mom actually alive and still capable of doing all this on her own ? Or does she now have an “ accomplice “ who saw a way to get money ?

She’s been in this hotel for ages. Many people come and go including employees . Maybe someone saw an elderly woman looking for attention , who now “ helps “ her to stalk you .

Does she have a computer or a cell phone? Stop paying for the cell phone to start. She doesn't need a computer. Take this all away. If she is living in a hotel, she can call for emergency help if needed.

How is she eating? Are you sending her money or is it all room service? Threaten to take this away. And then follow through if she won't stop.

And please seek mental health support for yourself. The real answer is to stop supporting her. I'd be surprised if you can take out a restraining order on someone you are financially supporting, and I assume contacting periodically to coordinate this support.

I’ve been wondering how you were doing and I’m very sad to see nothing has changed. Good luck.

As I read the many suggestions I felt as if no one could suggest anything that suited you. Lots of wise people out there though!
I'm not a psychiatrist but have experienced and am experiencing a situation with a Narcissist. After a year of trying to help him it became CRYSTAL CLEAR that nothing a person does or says is correct, helpful, or any use. We cut the person off completely. Didn't send money anymore when given a sob story etc.
Took us a year but we decided on
NO CONTACT no matter how many times they call or try to contact you!!! They t h r i v e, THRIVE, and did I say THRIVE, off any response verbal, positive, or negative!!! Don't feed the beast! LET IT GO lest you like the suffering!
He lost interest when we cut him off. Now he contacts other people.
Contact is crack for them! Just don't contact, do nothing else.

A lot of these comments are not valid.
But literally she wrote again "Do I have to try to destroy you to get you to help me?"

I didn't want her on the street.
I did want a different answer.
But this is horrific. And it isn't the first time.

And to blocking - you've never met my mother.
There are a thousand ways to contact someone and she will find every one of them.

The other best solution is go get some therapy to center yourself. It's hard to see the forest for the trees. If more than one or two people say something you should take it more seriously and listen. You have to cut her off for however long it takes and let someone else handle the communication. Maybe your husband.
Where there's a will...........

OCD, your behavior is akin to a couple other posters, Lisa and bb for short. Lisa could not accept that her brother poa was running the ship his way so we got all this info on his money coming from the sil and how they run a horse farm on the side. Bb, who was more recently here, stated a belief that a California court would criminally charge him if he wasn’t sitting with mom three times a day to feed her his home cooked food, so he was willing to let his wife and kids leave him.

Well, you know, as if.

As if any judge in sf is going to assume you need a restraining order when your ongoing intent is to subsidize her 13000/mo hotel bills let alone her other expenses. You think a judge is gonna Empathize with you pulling down the cudgel of a ro when they hear about you doing this? AS IF just as much as bb trying to convince us that some california superior court could convict him if he didn’t show up three times a day to provide mom with homemade food.

As if you’ll get sfpd to remove her if she does show up. She could pitch a tent in front of your building anytime which is why you’re paying her 13000 to live elsewhere while she stalks you with this threat. Me myself and personally, i let her do her crazy aunt Halacha routine in the tent. I would get it over with, but I’m not you.

As mother and daughter, there is normally no need for a financial agreement like separation or divorce. But here, there is. You are subsidizing her over 160k on the hotel alone to stalk ya

It doesn't matter how often she contacts you, or how. Just ignore her every single time. Permanently. Done, It really couldn't be simpler.

Oh and I would have no problem putting her in jail. Good luck.

If she had to work to pay her own expenses, she wouldn’t have all day to harass you. My dogs, left alone, almost dug a hole through my floor because they had all day to work on it.

You need to stop enabling her to harass you.

You said 'i just want my mother to be a normal person and be happy".
Your mother is a narcissist....that isn't going to change. You must change. I think most everyone here is familiar with being the child of a narcissist. Old age, dementia, etc., make it worse. Threats of suicide, threats in general abound. Do whatever you can to seek counseling for yourself and do not engage with your mother. Unless you want to continue like this. She is playing you and playing with you.

You are complaining that the two options given here are crappy options: jail or shut her out of your life completely (and stop supporting her completely). Well unfortunately there are ONLY crappy options left. She won’t change and you won’t get a different outcome. People are suggesting therapy for you because the only thing you have the power to change is yourself. Accepting that there are no not crappy solutions for your mom is what you really need help with. That is the unfortunate truth.

Why do you keep asking what to do when you aren’t going to do anything?!

“ I still can’t understand why she simply can’t accept a phone call from a counselor and chooses to threaten me instead “. OP’s words .

Because Mom doesn’t want to talk to a counselor . Mom doesn’t want to make changes . She’s a sick narcissist . She does not think she needs to make changes . She sees you as being disobedient . I know this , I had a narcissist for a mother . They do not understand why they can’t have their way most of the time . And the rest of the time they just plain refuse to make changes .
You can’t get someone like this to make changes . Therapy rarely helps a severe narcissist
So your mother’s actions should have consequences , which could either be jail or homelessness.

Which do you want more: (1) to not be stalked and harassed; or (2) to maintain your image and self-image as a person who is "too compassionate" to stop giving money to the person who is stalking and harassing you. If you ever want the first thing more than you want the second thing, you'll be able to do what is within your control to try to stop the stalking and harassment.

Remember your mother has been training you your whole life how to treat her. You are the only one who can break the pattern, not her. She will not change. You are looking for a solution that does not exist. You are continuing to be her puppet and emotional punching bag as long as you are supporting her. You can’t reason with or expect a rational response from someone who is mentally ill. Yes, you can stop supporting her and let social services step in. You enable her abusive behavior by supporting her. You gave her the iPad she uses to stalk and harass you. You are paying for the WiFi access she uses by paying for her hotel. Seek help for yourself and try to figure why you can’t let go of someone who treats you like garbage. You don’t deserve it.

Getting a restraining order is more compassionate than you think even though it may seem harsh. It's compassionate for you and your family. Please take printed copies of your emails sent from your mother to court as proof of the harassment. Don't say to the judge that your mother is a narcissist. You are not qualified to make a diagnosis. For now, just document her behavior and hand over the evidence to the judge. Next time she contacts you, call the police and that's only after you filed a restraining order if you are granted one. You feel guilty if you don't comply to your mother's demands, so you would compensate by providing the tools needed to keep her life going. This is financial coercion and emotional blackmail.

Question for you, why do you keep supporting her? You pay for the wifi, and she uses it to harass you. You are also footing the bill for her hotel services.

If she gets arrested for harassing you, the judge may force her into some type of therapy. Worst case scenario, she ends up in a half house and is forced into treatment.

I hope that you understand that most of us here, trying to give you advice, are children of narcissists as well. We know. My mother was the most wonderful woman ever....to other people. We suffered physical and emotional abuse....after she died during covid...I knew I would need therapy to make sense of my people pleasing ways that I learned in order to survive. Recommending that someone get therapy is not meant to be an insult ...rather, it's meant to be a gift to yourself where someone finally gives you permission to stand up for yourself and to walk away from someone who is broken and wants to break you too. There has been a lot of sincere, heartfelt advice here. I don't think honestly that we can offer much more other than to encourage you to give the gift of therapy to yourself so that you can see this situation with a changed perspective.