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Update.

I have to say, since my FIL passing, I've noticed an unwelcome change in my wife. It's almost like she's tied herself to her situation even more. I was figuring she'd have some more freedom, but it's the opposite. One of the first things out of MIL mouth after FIL died, was that she wasn't letting my wife go.
Truth is, I've been feeling very uneasy around her (wife).
Impatient may be the better adjective. She is what I would describe as manic. Her memory is junk too. In conversations with her, I'm constantly hearing the same things mentioned just days apart.
She's also been interrupting me a lot, which is my number one pet peeve, and she known's that.
When someone interrupts me, I will clam up, and not return to what I was saying... unless the interrupter asks. I'm chalking it up to a manifestation of her grief. I'm going to try and speak to her if she let's me get a word in. :)
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NYDaughterInLaw May 2020
LossingHope - that is not what I was hoping to read while catching up on your thread. I read a long time that when a person spends too much time around someone with cognitive decline, their own brain starts turning to mush.

Found an article and cut and pasted some key points:
https://www.webmd.com/alzheimers/news/20110513/alzheimers-caregivers-may-be-at-risk-for-dementia#1
Alzheimer's Caregivers May Be at Risk for Dementia
Stress and Shared Lifestyle May Raise Risk of Mental Decline for Spouses Who Are Also Caregivers
By Brenda Goodman, MA
"FROM THE WEBMD ARCHIVES May 13, 2011 -- Husbands and wives who care for a spouse with Alzheimer's disease or another kind of dementia may face an increased risk of mental decline themselves, a new research review shows.
...Studies have shown, for example, that caregivers of Alzheimer's disease patients had lower scores on tests that measure attention, visual processing speeds, and memory than adults of the same age who were not caregivers.
...And a study published in 2010, which followed more than 1,200 older married couples in rural Utah for 12 years, found that spouses of husbands or wives that developed dementia had a 600% greater risk of developing dementia themselves."

Your wife needs professional help i.e. a neurologist and a psychiatrist.
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LH, your wife seems to be voting to leave the marriage.

I think you need to confirm with her that this is her intent.

These are not the actions of a person who is thinking rationally otherwise.

It really seems to me that either is having some sort of breakdown or she no longer wants to be in this relationship.

I would try to get her some mental health care if she will accept that.
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Isthisrealyreal May 2020
It's only been 11 days since her dad died.

That doesn't need to be brought up right now. wth?
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LH you forcing your wife to make decisions about walking away from her mom is unfair and selfish. She just lost her dad, during a time when her only support was walking away from supporting her. Yes, that is you. I understand why you did it, but the timing was rotten.

Please don't force her to make any decisions about walking away from her mom right now, let the grief subside a bit.

Unless you are done with this marriage you should just support her and love her and gather information about alternative care for mom in the future. You will lose her if you push right now.

Barb, she just lost her dad, you can't really believe that she is walking away from her marriage because she is dealing with her mom and her own grief right now. Give the woman a chance to get her head straight from her father's death. I read what you are saying and I think that you have no empathy for her very recent loss. Why would you feel that right now she needs to be pushed into making decisions about anything? That is what a bully would do and quite frankly, everyone loses in a situation like that. Cut the woman a little slack to process her grief.
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Real, normally, my response would be EXACTLY what yours is. Normally.

This lady has been gone since November 2019.

There is something else going on.

I think I am encouraging honesty and clarity, not bullying. I hope.
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Isthisrealyreal May 2020
To force her to declare her intent right now is bullying. As I said, it's only 11 days since her dad died, her grief is still very raw.

I disagree that there has to be something else going on here. This could just be a woman that doesn't know how to tell her mom no, plane and simple. Stop planting your seeds of nefarious issues. It isn't helpful.
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Friends, thanks for the debate on my behalf. I'm just typing what I'm feeling, so anything that comes back at me is not taken as offensive... I like knowing that people care enough to be honest with their words

Reallyreal,
I am definitely considering this change as a product of grief.
Not only hers, but her moms...and mine. I have felt the guilt of selfishness through out this whole process. Ironically, if I feel guilty, am I truly selfish ?
I've watched what this has done to my buddy, and it sucks.
My job used to be to protect her, and I'm unable to. It's really hard to support and be in disagreement.
Her reaction to stress is to wall up and hide. She's a very tough woman, but on the other hand, not so much. Hiding from feelings is a recipe for a breakdown, and breakdowns change people. I'm
getting a bad vibe from somebody I love, and we never have time to sit down and talk. Communication is the key to any disagreement worth solving.

Barb.. In my deepest darkest thoughts, I am losing her. I chose not to feel this way, unfortunately it is getting harder.
I have spent more time alone in the last 6 months than I ever have. As a matter of fact, in my 53 years, I've rarely been alone at all. I don't like it. I like to be left alone sometimes, but lonely is no fun.
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Isthisrealyreal May 2020
I don't know if you are forcing her, I was just telling you what it is if you do that.

Of course you are all hurting and right now you just need to support her in whatever way she needs. She is obviously having a difficult time with how this is all going down, sometimes we just need to let our spouses do what they feel is right and be waiting for them.

Sorry, but you are a grown man, figure out how to deal with your loneliness. Maybe volunteer or do something that helps you feel like you are not just waiting. You will both be better for it. She needs space and to know that you are there for her right now and that she isn't losing her husband because she doesn't know how to deal with her mom. You can give her the gift of knowing this situation isn't costing her everyone she loves.
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LH quite honestly I'd stick the whole situation in a mental fridge for the next - where are we, eleven days in - say, three weeks. Plod along at home. Let your wife be. Let her mother be. Meanwhile doodle a timetable and collect useful telephone numbers, brochures, etc.

Assume the positive. Assume that there will, in the fullness of time, be the much-needed changes. MIL's house will be sold, and the money used either to downsize her to a suitable property for her later-life needs or to pay for long term care in a *good* facility. But do not force the pace: a) it's cruel and unseemly; b) it won't get you the result you want.

I'm assuming you don't want to lose your wife, btw.
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LossingHope May 2020
You are correct, I do not want to lose her. I've already had to give up more of her than I ever thought I would.
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I don't think that LH should "force" his wife into declaring her intent. I'm sorry if my post came across that way. I'm not always good with the nuances when I type early in the AM.

This dear lady has been absent from her home since November 2019. She accedes to her mother's demands to stay full time and provide 24/7 care since that time, although the parents have sufficient funds for professional in-home care.

Parents' doctor and SW have recommended that she allow hospice and professional to do at least some of the care. I believe that they see that this poor lady is having some sort of breakdown.

OP states that his wife avers that she is attempting to prove to non-involved siblings that she is stronger than they and will succeed in this caregiving venture.

There is significant mental illness in the wife's family.

What I am suggesting to LH is that he have a conversation with his wife, with whom he says he has a strong marriage.

"Honey, you are really damaging your mental and physical health by trying to do 24/7 caregiving. I know that now it's just your mom, so it's certainly easier than when it was TWO folks.

But can I ask, is this permanent? Are you intending to stay with your mom all the time until she passes? What about us? Is there a reason that you dont want to come home to me, even temporarily?"

That's what I had in mind. Not "Choose this or that". I'm sorry if it came off that way.
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Isthisrealyreal May 2020
This conversation doesn't need to happen right now.

Sometimes silence is golden and we need to just love our spouses through whatever they are going through.

I have followed the thread, I asked why she hates her dad. This is a little girl in a woman's body when she is dealing with her mom, i guarantee that this isn't news to anyone involved. But right now she needs time to deal with losing her dad, everything else goes on the back burner.

Yes, barb you did come across that way. Like you need to find out right now what her intentions are for this marriage. No right now she needs to be allowed to grieve the loss of her dad without worrying about losing her husband.
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Is there a balance between any misperceived thought of forcing your wife to choose you or mother (and I don’t believe that ever was the idea) and not letting this go on as it is for so long that there’s a new enmeshed normal between wife and mother that you can’t penetrate? It’s a hard place to be in, to not be seen as insensitive to grief, but also not let things go unchecked for such a time that you’ll never be able to make headway again. I feel for you in this, seems there are no winners
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LossingHope May 2020
That pretty much nails it.
There is definitely a stronger bond between her and mother with a justifiable reason. The three of them shared this experience together. The sad part, and due to the refusal of hospice care, my wife had to watch her father starve to death. What a slow, terrible, and senseless way to die. Sadly, the man had no say in the matter because he had Alzheimer's.
Made me sick, and angry honestly.

My wife has been needlessly exposed to damaging trauma. I just want to do things right by her.
I have no intentions of slamming her with a ultimatum. I am a firm believer in freedom of choice, even though I don't agree with the choices made by either of them to this point. I will make my feelings known when it's appropriate, if ever. Compared to my wife's life at this time, mine is pretty good.
Thanks all for your honest opinions.
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"have followed the thread, I asked why she hates her dad. This is a little girl in a woman's body..."

This is the best reason I read for pointing our OP in the direction of getting some qualified mental health intervention for his wife. And if she won't accept that, then for himself so that he can best figure out how to extricate her from this situation.

Nothing "nefarious" going on.

I think, Real, that we actually agree.
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Isthisrealyreal May 2020
Who said we didn't?

I don't think that we do agree barb. I think that making any move right now is wrong in light of everything that is happening in this woman's life.
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Coming from another man, I would never take this advice here unless I want to pay spousal support for the rest of my life. Bitter divorcees if you ask me.
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LossingHope May 2020
Huh? You have any other advice?
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LH - I'm sorry to hear that you feel like you can't talk to your wife because she keeps interrupting you and keeps repeating things.

Have you ever read the book The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People? One of the 7 habits is: seek first to understand, then to be understood.

It seems like your wife is trying to get her thoughts/feelings out to you and she is competing for airtime. Either that or she doesn't like what you're saying. How about giving that habit an old college try? Listen to her and see things from her point of view. Repeat it back to her so she knows you understand. It is important because she must know you understand her before she can hear and see things from your point of view.

Good luck communicating with your wife.
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When I saw my sister last year she was speaking so fast, running all her thoughts & words together. No room edgewise to get a word in. Went on all day. I was shocked & worried.

I have felt like this when under huge stress. So I waited a day or so & called to check in. Turns out she was up to her eyeballs stressed over a recent move, house, job situation. I thought she had been coping really well! But she was unravelling & husband said was in tears constantly. She soon got a bad cold which physically made her stop, rest & take stock.

I read similar in this forum too. A daughter turned 24/7 got so worn down was hospitalised (pneumonia? anaemia? can't remember).

So knowing LH's wife is not choosing to stop her care role at this time, if exhaustion or illness MAKES her stop???

Can MIL live unsupervised alone? If yes. OK.

If not, I'm thinking it will have to be a Granny Dump to the hospital???

Family or not, LH will not be able to care for his wife if living in as MIL's new 24/7 guy.

Ideas for a plan here?
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"My mother in law is 91 and can communicate normally, but she is a rather simple person. She can’t walk, and needs help with everything. Can’t make meals, bathe, get in and out of bed".

Doesn't sound like she can live alone. But does she need 24/7 care?
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Hmm. If LH's Wife became ill/exhausted/strained back etc, MIL would NOT be OK on her own.

I know now is not the time yet to pepper LH's Wife again with these questions... but maybe LH would like to have an action plan loosely made for himself?

Just to know what hospice can provide if the main carer goes down? Or must you ring around for private pay aides?

This test will come 'please come sit with MIL &...make lunch..' as she has a bad cold or something.

My DH will happily do dropoffs but NO hands-on care.

I need to work on my own boundaries regarding illnesses - drop off soups & pharmacy items? Sure. Be a sitter all day... or move in? No.

Or get the call there's a 'code brown' & I need your help? Before you laugh, I read that on another thread...
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worriedinCali May 2020
So when is the right time? There’s never a good time to have to this kind of conversation is there? I’m sure
most here will disagree but the OP has an avenue of opportunity here....now is the time to ask his wife “how do we move forward from here”.
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CAL, I'm with you on this. Yes, her dad died 12 days ago. But she has been at her parents' home since November 2019. And although the OP thought that there was some movement towards getting more help in (when MIL was left alone with dying dad) that initiative seems to have been abandoned.

So, very disabled mom was ok on her own caring for bed bound, demented dad, but now needs 24/7 care by her daughter?

I still think the OP, very soon, needs to ask (not tell) his wife what the heck is going on.
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LossingHope May 2020
"So, very disabled mom was ok on her own caring for bed bound, demented dad, but now needs 24/7 care by her daughter?"

Crazy huh?
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So...just to test the theory of the only man to post here besides myself... How many of you have been divorced?
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Beatty May 2020
Still chained.. 20yrs this year.
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I was married the first time for 24 years. We are divorced but are good friends (we have Thanksgiving and Passover seders together, along with our kids).

I am coming up on my 18th anniversary with my second husband.

I REALLY tried to make it work the first time. 24 years.
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Isthisrealyreal May 2020
Barb, this is the same husband that you said abused you?

I am confused by this comment in light of things you have previously posted about your 1st husband.

Not sure I think remaining "friends" with your abuser is the healthiest way forward.

I am happily married by the way.
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Lossing -

I urge you to start researching senior living communities for your MIL yourself. It's something you can do with your time that will help you start a conversation with your wife and make plans for your own future wellbeing.

When it became clear to me that my inlaws could no longer be enabled to pretend living independently, I started researching and touring senior living communities. I didn't tell my husband. When I found "the one", that's the brochure I showed my husband. At first, he was appalled, but I kept on like a broken record:
"Your parents' needs are only increasing"
"They've run out of room for grab bars"
"I'm no longer willing to continue like this".

About that last one i.e. "I'm no longer willing to continue like this". The first 30 days following the death of your FIL are the most important for you to be there for your wife and MIL, not 24/7 but an hour or two. And by the time you've researched and toured promising senior living communities, 30 days will have passed and, in my opinion, you will be well within your rights as her husband to start the "I'm no longer willing to continue like this" conversation with your wife about her mother.

I know I take great comfort knowing that my religion sets forth a timeline for bereavement whose purpose is to bring mourners through their grief to a place where they can live with the loss in a healthy way. Your wife lost sight of very many things that are important. Atop that list, in my opinion, are her health and her marriage.
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Okay then. I guess that guys comment is without merit. Thanks for the clarification. His comment came of as judgemental, and I figured he had a personal issue. I hope he can work it out.
We're going on 31 years this October. The bumps in the road made for a better marriage.
I was over today and made them lunch, then did some work around the house for them. Good day.
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worriedinCali May 2020
I’m glad you had a good day today :)
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Any updates?
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LossingHope Jun 2020
Not really, but not bad.
We are seeing more of each other, and the tension has dropped all around. She is getting MIL out, and MIL is enjoying the company. We took her to a chili cookout at a friends place Sunday. She really enjoyed the day, and we all got a little much needed sunshine.
MIL is adapting towards our life schedule, happenings, and goings on. As long as she's healthy enough to get up, and get out, I'm okay with the third wheel.

real deal... from the day of my first post on this forum to this today...I'm way better.
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So very glad that there is less tension all around.

Kudos to you for reaching out for support!
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LH - Less tension is good. I'm happy for you all.
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Hello Ladies,
Just wanting to update you all. Nothing has really change over the time since my last update. Wife is still living with MIL, and I am still slightly disgruntled over it.
Summer is here and my wife is spending more time at our home, but mainly while I'm at work. We have settled FIL estate as far as we can tell. Life insurance, teamsters death benefit, social security are handled. There were a handful of auto withdrawals from their checking account for stupid things my FIL purchased like home appliance coverage, legal service retainers, electrical warranty, etc. I have cancelled all these non essentials. Seems my FIL was a sucker for phone solicitations. It's sad because he had dementia. I don't believe he even knew they were tapping him. We are still keeping an eye on the bank account just to be sure we are able to catch all these. My wifes siblings are still not very involved other than the weekly calls, but this Covid thing gives everyone an excuse to keep their distance.
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Daughterof1930 Jul 2020
Thanks for the update. What are your plans in this going forward? Settling for being slightly disgruntled spouse or shaking the tree and seeing what changes can happen? Not saying you should or shouldn’t do anything, only you know what’s best in your life and wishing that for you
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Good to hear the situation is much improved.

Would you consider MIL moving into your place at all?

Maybe subtly nudge towards manouvering The Queen to give up her own palace & become Dowager Queen in your castle. Where you & your wife are the ruling couple. Together.
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LossingHope Jul 2020
Yes, my wife and I have talked about it, but when I weigh out the advantages and disadvantages, I see more disadvantages. As disgruntled as I am, I'll chose this inconvenience over 24/7 MIL. My wife gave up 100% of her freedom, not me. I like my island too much to give it up.
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LH - I'm glad to hear the affairs for FIL were settled. I'm sure they required a lot of time and effort on your part.

How is your wife getting on? Good that she's spending more time at home. Not so good that it's not with you. Is she still grieving and wanting to just be alone, or just too tired from taking care of her mother that she just wants to be left by herself?

Can you take a day off and surprise her? Plan something special when she comes home? Maybe that will help motivate her to spend even more time at home and with you.
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LossingHope Jul 2020
I can, and do take time off. I live very close to my work so it's not a problem for me to run hope and hang out with them a little. I spend a lot of evenings at the MIL ranch too. Not over night, but we are seeing each other.
Keep in mind that MIL is with my wife even when she is at our home. It's not like I can "surprise" her.
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So, does your wife LIKE this "new normal"? Or is she itching to get back to living at home? FIL passed away about 2 months ago and she still hasn't left her mom overnight? Or arranged any respite care? Or looked into "other arrangements"?

Wife can leave MIL alone for a couple of hours during the day, but not at night?

Something feels so terribly "off" here. I hate to stir the pot; LH, if you are happy with this new arrangement going forward, that's fine. But note that YOU are the one who adjusted to the "new normal".
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LossingHope Jul 2020
You are correct Barb, She never leaves her alone. There is a complication with one sibling I have not explained that is potentially dangerous to MIL, but she's fairly predictable as far as when she shows up at the house. It seems to me, my wife's obsessive personality has taken over and she does think rationally.
To me, the writing is on the wall, but I will continue to live my life and do what I can.
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Aha. I see. Families are ceaselessly complicated, aren't they?

I wonder if your wife can see that her mom would be better off in a facility with LOTS of eyes around?

Best of luck!
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LossingHope Aug 2020
Unfortunately, the experience with "professionals" and "care facilities" has been far from par. Her father spent considerable time in facilities before his death, and the care was crap. Needless to say, they have very little confidence in the establishment. The visiting nurses that are coming in to see my MIL are never on the same page, and they all have their own opinions on treatment, and criticism for the doctor. It's a joke.
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I'm sorry to hear that the care where you are is not good, LH.

It took me a while to figure out, at least with regard to NH care for my mom, that the care was good but the communication, both between and among staff, and with us, the family, was the issue. We addressed this via a care meeting with the unit manager, the SW and the exec director of the facility and got us ALL on the same page.

That being said, I've learned from my experiences here that some states have weak enforcement of standands of care, or no standards at all.

I will tell you that after one particularly bad example of intrastaff communication, we had a care meeting and I said, very quietly "Can you tell me why I SHOULDN'T call the Joint Commision and report this?".

The room got even quieter and communication suddenly improved a 1000 fold.

Best to you and yours, B
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Irony. I had not updated here in quite a while, but felt the need yesterday.
My MIL past away yesterday at about 5:30 pm.
I just stopped to pick up some stuff for my wife, and I could tell that my wife was... different. She said that Mom was restless the night before, and all of yesterday. She had asked my wife to call the doctor, and when she went back to tell her she was coming .. her Mom was, as my wife put it, very still. I checked on her and immediately called 911, they contacted the coroner, and buy 9:30 last night my wife was back home.
Still a lot of loose ends to tie up, but I want to thank you all again for giving me a place to vent and feel understood.
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LosingHope, thank you for the sad update.

May your wife find peace and closure; I know that you are glad to be her anchor and safe harbor.
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LossingHope Aug 2020
I am glad, and so proud of my wife.
Now that this is behind us, I feel like our relationship will grow in ways that we'd never imagined possible. It's so much easier for me to look back than it was to look ahead.
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