<p class="">Hi Everyone. This forum is a godsend. I lurk and learn so much. My mom is 83, worked so hard her whole life and is still quite independent. She still drives and is mentally sharp. She has some pain from joints but overall does well. My problem is it is soooo hard to be around her! I love her alot but it fills me with knots being in her presence because of her negativity and inability to allow others to express themselves. She has always been this way. I know I cant change her. She takes everything as criticism, gets defensive, etc. She grew up with 8 siblings and never got her emotional needs met. I get it. I grew up the same way but after a lifetime of therapy, I am better but heaven forbid I cry in front of her. She cannot handle it. Looks away, gets physically uncomfortable. I know it's not her fault but it riles me up inside to be shut down anytime I try to express anything be it a concern, feeling etc. I grew up totally emotionally abused and suffered my entire life with bulimia. I need tips to be able to be around someone who is headstrong, passive-aggressive, emotionally void. I feel like nothing ever gets resolved because she gets so defensive and takes it as a personal attack and says Im "fighting with her". She is controlling and I have never heard her say "Im sorry" to anyone because she feels it's a sign of weakness. She constantly tells me what to do and any attempt to stop that behavior is met with hetrgetting mad. She truly is a wonderful person but was/is unavailable emotionally. Help!! Thanks in advance to all of the amazing rockstars on this site!
That much should be clear.
You must change your SELF.
Limit your visits. Find a good supportive group of friends to do the "mothering" and "companionship" you might get from a parent without the limitations your Mom has.
You are good at recognizing your mother's limitations.
You have not, however, ACCEPTED them as a given in your life.
And you have not accepted that this won't change; that only YOU will need to change your own life.
I can just suggest that you stay in therapy. It is clearly helping you. But it hasn't yet come to the magic moment of KNOWING her limitations, KNOWING they are permanent, and KNOWING you must move on.
You are a grownup. Only humans, in all the animal world, stay around parents all their lives. All other animals move on. I think actually the latter works better overall, but this is the way we evolved. You need to come to peace with the REALITY.
I sure do suggest listening to the Podcast Dr Laura's Call of the Day. She is just the best at letting people know that not everything can be fixed. Some things just require you moving through them and beyond them, being polite and understanding that nothing will change.
You don't try to get your emotional needs met by her.
You find friends who accept you for who you are
You stop thinking that she will ever accept responsibility.
I'm truly sorry that you didn't get the mother you needed or deserved.
It finally came down to whether it was her or me, I chose me, 13 years later I have no regrets.
I would cut back on my dealings with her, take time to heal yourself, set your boundaries and stick to them.
Sending support your way!
You can't have it both ways. Which is she? She doesn't sound like a "truly wonderful person". Based on what evidence?
You basically described my Mother, who many years ago had the nerve to say to my face, "We don't have the type of relationship that other mothers and daughters have." Hahahahaha! Ya think?
So I've gotten over the expectation that she just will ever fill that role.
Expectations = premeditated anger
Therefore, stop expecting your Mother to be "motherly". You keep wanting her to be someone she isn't capable/willing to be, and never was. You will need to get "mothering" from elsewhere now (or at my age, 64, I think I'm beyond needing it since now *I'm* the mother).
Therapy is good and so happy it has helped you.
The way I deal with my Mother is to spend as little time with her as possible (she lives next door to me, is single and I'm her PoA). I know my boundaries and am not afraid to point them out to her. When her behavior gets inappropriate I warn her, then if she persists, I just walk out. I ignore her negativity completely and again, will walk away if she persists. Vote with your feet. And I don't feel guilty about it because we don't get to choose our relatives, we can only choose how we interact with them, if at all.
I'm not responsible for my Mother's happiness. I'm not her entertainment committee. Neither are you. That's how I deal with someone like her.
https://lifelessons.co/personal-development/covertpassiveaggressivenarcissist/
Then put the thought out of your mind that mother is a "truly wonderful person".
Truly wonderful people aren't abusive, passive-aggressive or emotionally void. They are present and available for their children all the time so they don't acquire eating disorders or lifelong therapy to cope or to come to terms with how they've been treated.
Why is it "not her fault" that she can't handle your emotions? What is a parent for if not to help and guide their children thru life? Your mother chose not to deal with her issues making her "I can't help it" statements pure nonsense. My mother uttered those words constantly and truth is, she COULD have helped ALL of her dysfunctional behavior by asking for help. That her EGO prevented such a thing became MY problem, and dad's problem too.
Stop looking for mother to BE a mother now and realize it'll never be that warm fuzzy mom-daughter relationship you want it to be. She's incapable of it, and unwilling to change. Keep her at arms length or further, and limit contact with her, like I did with my mother. Toxic people's fumes reach out and draw us in from all sides. The ONLY way to avoid such noxious fumes is to avoid the person emanating them. Doesn't mean you don't "love" her, just that protecting yourself is more important now. You deserve to.
Once I acknowledged my mother's limitations/shortcomings and quit having expectations of her, things got a bit easier for me. I stopped jumping thru hoops to please her or make her happy. I focused on MYSELF instead and that was nice. I suggest you do the same and stop trying to get blood from a stone. It'll never happen.
Good luck.
I wish I could like this post a thousand times. You nailed it perfectly with this explanation. Well done.
She can tell you all she wants about what to do but you just say No. Or just ignore her.
"I feel like nothing ever gets resolved" What are you trying to resolve, the way you were treated as a kid or now? Whichever, you are trying to change someone you can't change. A person who never thinks she is wrong or says she is sorry. That's a Narcissist and they can't be helped because they don't see themselves as needing it. I think PTSD is being used too freely now a days. (Read your first post) What you say and feel does not effect this type of person. They have no empathy. They don't know how to "walk in someone elses shoes". You are banging ur head against a wall. The less you expect from Mom and interact with her the better.
I know people whose parents weren't there for them emotionally and they turned out OK. They are very compassionate people. I bet you are too. Your problem, IMO, is you have tried to label Mom to be able to understand and forgive her. But you look up Narcissist and I bet Mom fits that label. If so, she will never change because...she is not the problem in her mind.
Or better still an employer. If the mother ever worked and had a job, she knows that you can't get about the complaining, negativity, gaslighting, and bullying because you get fired.
Work manners or everyone should abandon her and give her a taste of what total alone is like.
It's very bitter and most people don't care for it.
She’s not acting like a wonderful loving mother . Nothing will get resolved. Have you considered going no contact ?
Your bulimia is very likely caused by your mother's behavior and a lifetime of her conditioning of you. I have struggled with food addiction, bulimia, and anorexia. It's cause was the conditioning and bullying that was my parents and family.
What your mom needs is the same thing mine got. Some tough love. Damn tough.
She is the one who is going to learn how to apologize whe she is wrong and how to have some basic human empathy for her daughter (you) and others. If she doesn't then everyone she treats this way should make it plain to her that no one will do anything for her, or help her, or speak to her. That she can look forward to being completely alone and she can complain and spread her negativity to whatever homecare worker she gets or in whatever nursing home she gets put in.
This is how to handle her. Go as 'Gray Rock' as you can. I didn't speak to my mother for years. When she needs something she will learn to say she's sorry and mean it.
My mother is exactly like yours. You describe her perfectly when describing your own.
We both have senior brats. My mother loves negativity, complaining, staging fake health crises, and ruining special times like holidays, birthdays, planned events, etc... This has always been so. Not just in old age.
As her caregiver I was cooking her three delicious meals a day only to be met with complaining and criticism. Until one day when I brought her the supper and she started with the complaining. I took her plate and threw it in the garbage telling her that she can go hungry or fend for herself.
There were no meals for a few days. She was getting by on bread and peanut butter.
When she was ready to swallow her pride and apologize, the meals returned. I still had to take her plate a few times and put in the garbage when some complaining started, but it was rare.
You start holding her accountable for her behavior. Don't take it from her and you will see positive change.
Even of she improves, DO NOT become her POA. Don't do it. Let someone who is not family have that responsibility.
1) If she tells you to do something, acknoledge that you heard her and do nothing that she says
2) Putdowns: respond whatever then go grey rock on her. Leave if you can
Let's start here.
She TELLS you that she is a wonderful person, or others tell you that she is. She ISN'T a wonderful mother to you. Accept that as a given. Stop lying to yourself.
She TELLS you what to do? Are you an adult? Yes. Does she expect a response to those "orders"?
1. I can't possibly do that.
2. I don't want to do that.
3. I hear that you want me to do X. I'll think about it.
4. No.
Those are all reasonable responses for an ADULT to make to another adult. Practice them.
You won't stop her from continuing to order you about. But you CAN simply not do the things she wants.
If she gets mad, so what?
or change her the only person you can change is yourself .
Can you be honest about how she made & makes you feel? If not, why not see where it takes you. She's not the only one that should be able to share her emotions. Get everything off of your chest before she passes. You might feel like visiting her if you let it out.
It was developed by Sandra Brown, MA, a survivor of traumatic abuse herself. She's spent the last 3+ decades studying and researching this phenomenon and written a book on the subject, called "Women Who Love Psychopaths" (now in its 3rd and most complete edition). She advocates EMDR and somatic therapy, finding the best trauma-informed therapist and working the program as a lifelong process of self-care. It's the only program that has finally gotten me off the cycle of abuse and abusers. I too have suffered with addiction (food, alcohol, etc. to self-medicate), and have now been sober for nearly 8 years.
Please visit the site and see if her program might be helpful to you. Namaste
I got sober for the 2nd time in 2008, thank God. And battled food addictions since I was a child. I'd eat salt if there was nothing else available bc mother would count the cookies 😑
Why you feel the need to share with her is beyond me, you are an adult you do not need to share your life with her, it is not her business, you are now equals, you are not a little girl responsible to report to her.
No one wants to say that they have a parent who is not nice who has made one's life a living hell, but there are parents out there who are toxic and unable to love one of their children or all of them for that matter.
I have one like that, I have not spoken to her for 13 years and never will again.
My brother & I always had to laugh when it came time to buy mothers day cards "To The Most Wonderful Mom In the World" nope didn't fit, how about "Thank You For Always Being There For Me". Nope! Or "I cherish The Time We Spend Together"...another Nope.
So we bought a generic card like "Happy Mothers Day to a Mother"! Now we don't buy any cards.
Give it up, be honest with yourself, pull away from her, for your own good. Let her do her thing without you, She will find someone else to berate, they always do.
That said, you can always limit the time you are around your mother or anyone else ; perhaps make short visits rather than long extended visits that can ultimately lead to increased potential conflict. Try to establish for you what would be a
" quality time" short visit .
It is not clear if you still live with your mother or are independent in your own home; hopefully you are.
Sometimes, one has to accept that biological relationships are not necessarily the ideal. Have your therapist help you set some healthy boundaries for yourself to implement regarding being around your mother.
One can only change oneself, not others. So keep working on yourself and, your emotional, mental health.
BTW, if you break away, she may actually change...for the better. As long as people put up with her evil ways, she'll never change. Not fair to grandchildren either.
May I also suggest just being yourself. Don't worry about her being uncomfortable with you expressing your emotions. You own - and express - your emotions and let her own her emotions.
You leave and don't get close. You avoid their traps.
You manage them from afar, if you manage them at all. You have a very thick raincoat on because major issues occur because they are the innocent victim. There is always an excuse and always their better way. You let them do their own thing. Most are very smart in manipulating the environment around them to get them what they want and need. Some will show one great personality to one set of people and the more horrible, abusive side to others. Unfortunately, you are in the group of "others". You need to be very careful in how you "help".
Since you are an "other", you don't want to be around this type of person. To effectively deal with this type of person, you will have to be one like them. You don't want to be like them. Leave that job to the authorities.
Be wary of the "poor me" stories as a child. I finally realized, after some of the filters were removed due to dementia, that my mother and her sister were huge bullies in school and in their adult life. Their actions might have been okay while they were going to school, however, that would have been grounds for expulsion during my days of growing up. She just chuckles and thinks those people were dumb, stupid, and weak, and deserved what they got. Maybe the story was "enhanced", however, many of these backstories now explain the anger and conflict that I saw when the families would get together.
I lived away for a long time. My brother asked me to come to help him with Mom (he was the favored child and only occasionally saw the ugly side). After 2.5 years, my brother passing during that time, I finally said I could no longer take care of her 24 hours a day. I researched and found a facility that I thought would work for her, and told her "I can no longer care for you." My Mom tried to get my sister to agree that I was the issue, however all it did was affirm that my Mom needed to go into managed care.
I visit her each day. People say she is lucky that I am around. I am glad she is in managed care because if she becomes argumentative and exhibits that bully personality, I can always leave her in capable hands. If she was being cared of at home, even with caregivers, I would have to take the abuse, the nagging and criticism, the drama, the name calling, and the expectation that I was her entertainment and slave.
By the way, she is over 100 years old, outliving all but 1 of her close relatives.
My advice....stay away and preserve your sanity. Manage only when necessary, and from afar. Delegate, delegate, delegate.
2) Always have an exit plan on the phone or in person . Sorry , I have to go now , I have an appointment . Hang up , leave . Limit visits and phone calls . Go no contact when necessary .
3) Do not share every bit of your life with her . Omit things , even white lies are appropriate .
4) Limit your reaction to her . Don’t fight with her . The more you react the more fuel she gets . Leave or change the subject.
https://www.oprahdaily.com/life/relationships-love/a43431961/mother-daughter-relationships/
The tips others have mentioned may sound heartless/cruel, but you really have to put yourself and your sanity/feelings/inner child first. If she is allowed to speak to you cruelly but you're not allowed to disagree, you don't really need to be around her at all. You do not need to subdue yourself for a narcissistic tyrant. I'm all too aware that removing yourself from that is easier said than done when that person is your own mother, but perhaps hearing from so many others with similar parents will bring you some strength and help you to not only accept that you don't need to continue this relationship as it has been, but to also take the necessary actions to preserve yourself.
It's great that you can recognize some of the reasons behind her own behaviors, as it can help you to understand that it really has nothing to do with you as a person/child and everything to do with her. But by the same token, you're not obligated to suffer that behavior in silence while battling with the consequences internally. You've done enough of that for your whole life. Any relationship involves 2 people, and she has to meet you halfway and do the self-reflection to understand her behavior and how it affects you. Unfortunately, it's unlikely that at this age, she is going to have an epiphany and begin the work to understand herself and/or you. Therefore, you have to do the work you can with yourself to make this situation more agreeable to you.
You've asked for tips to be around someone who is so unpleasant that it's caused you emotional trauma. The answer is not to be around them, if you can help it. If you do have to for some reason, limit that time with her in frequency, length, or both. Give yourself permission to take care of your own emotional health by leaving when the hurtful behavior begins (or before if it happens on every occasion!). Don't think you have to be a martyr to your mother. The fact that she is your mom does not mean you owe her your emotional pain. The bond that makes people think they have to suffer whatever their mothers dole out, is the same bond that should make mothers want to do better by their children. I have a mother and I am one. Trauma from growing up negatively affected my parenting of my children in some ways, but I have done and am continuing to do the work to heal myself, to allow my children (both teens) to express their needs, wants, and hurts, to be self-aware, and to acknowledge, apologize for, and repair any mistakes I've made. I know that my mother won't do the work, and thus I limit my exposure to her and have also gotten a lot firmer about speaking my truths. If she doesn't like what I have to say, that is not my problem. Her getting angry is no longer a huge fear, as it was for decades. That's been empowering enough that I actually let some things go with her because I understand that she isn't going to change and because of the dementia, doesn't even remember a lot of her own behavior, and thus the healing sits squarely with me. It hasn't been easy and it is a process and a learned behavior (letting go, caring less or not at all, etc). I'm still working on it, but I realize that the trauma took a long time to set in and will take a long time to get over.
It's not easy embracing new dynamics and patterns for yourself that honor your own personhood and adulthood, but that's what you owe it to yourself to do.
The ultimate goal of the grey rock technique is to cause a toxic person or a narcissist to lose interest in you. While you may not be able to completely cut off narcissistic or abusive people in your life, this might be a way to limit the harm that their behavior inflicts on your life and on your mental health.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/toxic-
relationships/201911/the-price-and-payoff-gray-rock-strategy9
I know this is hard.
It is a matter of learning to separate yourself when you feel triggered ... which is all the time in her presence.
My thoughts / ideas:
* When she 'starts in' which is her MO - see what part of you inside is triggered. It is likely that 'little girl' feeling small and insignicant and unloved. Then mentally give her a hug - or better yet, give yourself a hug.
* Set boundaries - for you. She may / may not be able to understand or change. However, you could say something like "When you say xxx, I feel xxx" or "it is really inappropriate of you to say xxx to me, at least this is how I feel ... and how I feel really matters."
- When you do this, tell her you need to take a break to 'regroup' (use your own word(s)) and then do leave ... for 5 minutes ... 20 minutes. Whatever you feel is needed. The key here is two-fold (1) you are empowering / taking back your personal power and acknowledging that YOUR feelings MATTER and (2) she will see / understand that when she says xxx that you will leave. IF she wants you to stay, she may / may not change.
The point here is to do what supports you to feel whole inside when in her presence. If you need to adjust your visits, do so. Get a caregiver or someone to be with her for an hour. Do not allow yourself to be her punching bag.
* These relationships / behaviors are LIFE LONG patterns. They do not change overnight. However, with your awareness and intention, you will feel better and realize that you deserve to be respected, loved, and that she is unable to do that.
In this situation, learn to feel COMPASSION for her - in her small little wounded world. When you feel compassion for her as she is, you are not (necessarily) hooked into it / triggered by it. You understand that her stance / behavior comes from fear. She has that little girl inside her. You can love her from a distance as you need to. First, love that little girl inside you. You need to learn how to heal yourself.
She will continue to do as she does.
She doesn't can't do any different (overall) perhaps when you change, she will somewhat change -
You (appear to be) over-analyzing all this - although I understand you need to get it out and that is really good (to do here). Still, when you take steps to self-empower and love yourself, you will not continue to sit there and absorb all this negative energy. You leave and smell the roses. Go outside. Go to the woods. Go take a warm bath. Leave her. Find others to be around her more and you less.
And then also ask yourself: Why do you spend 'so' much time with her?
She cannot handle YOU crying in front of her? Really. Get back into therapy my dear.
If you get to this point, get up and leave. You need to learn how to heal your little girl inside. She cannot do that for you. Your mom is wounded. Get her a stuffed animal to bitch too ... or hold.
When you change, she will change (or not). And if she doesn't that isn't the point. The point is for you to change (your re-actions to her behavior and stop being on 'automatic behavior' - from decades long.
Do not have expectations although I have seen miracles in this regard (although not my mother; it was a client - a mean, nasty person. A social worker encouraged me to write up a CONTRACT of acceptable behavior and I presented it to her. It outlined what was acceptable behavior and what was not and the consequences of unacceptable behavior. I had her sign it. It worked. I was amazed.
She didn't want me to leave.
She needed my guidelines/boundaries in order to change.
We love you. Keep us informed.
I sure would have loved a mother who knew how to love herself. Although my mom wasn't mean. She was very needy. We all need to learn (or most of us) to be our own loving parent for some inner peace and contentment. It is a life long process. And well worth it.
Gena / Touch Matters
In my case I don’t like my mother as a person, but I do love her and will not do anything to hurt her. Shes in a NH now. I decided I do not want any further miserable intense conversations with her. It is now limited to chitchat. And I bring my husband with me because he is a master of small talk. He can keep a conversation going by himself for an hour. I never realized that until now. A true talent 😁