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My mother has always been bad with money. Her and my Dad lived apart for over 40 years, but when he got sick, she took him in and took his money. My Dad has since passed and she retired. Her memory is getting sketchy and she's spending massive amounts of money on lotto. She now expects her children to supplement her spending if she runs out of money. She has not admitted to playing lotto. Claims she loses her money. Within a week she took out over $500 but didn't have $10 to purchase cat food. Her fridge is always empty. When questioned, she deflects the question by asking, why are you looking at my bank account. When I tell her to be mindful of what she spends her money on, she gets defensive. When her bank balance gets very low, she goes to the bank asking where her money went. She has accused me in the past of "stealing" her money. When I remind her that I supplement her social security so she has extra spending money, she tells me she'll pay me back (which of course she doesn't because she has no money). I do have an appointment with an Elder Care Lawyer. I made arrangements to have her social security deposited into an account she has no access to and will transfer spending money into her account. My question is, if I spoke with the store owner and requested that he doesn't take the $100 per day she is spending on lotto and he doesn't agree, is there something legally I can do to stop him from taking her money? My mother is 85 years old. Thank you.

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If she is considered competent not much you can do. You can politely ask the clerk but is he always there? You can't keep him from taking Moms money if she is competent. You need to have her evaluated by a neurologist and he has to declare her incompetent to make informed decisions. Are you her POA. Is it immediate? If immediate you can take over her finances if Springing this means you need one or more doctors to say she is incompetent.

If you can change her acct to a different one then u must be on her accts. SS does not recognize POAs. So now you can control how her money is spent. Don't close the old acct down till ur sure the new one is working.
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You cannot stop a store owner from accepting money. It’s not on them to decide who is capable of correctly handling money and who is not. It’s clearly time that your mother is not safe handling money at all, even if that’s a bitter pill. Please don’t try to explain or argue with mom over this, she’s lost the ability to understand and reason. It may also be true that she’s not safe living on her own, or won’t be very soon, at least without lots of in home help. I’m glad you have an appointment with an elder care attorney to help guide you for the big changes ahead.
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I don't believe the store owner has any responsibility to stop your mother from spending money at his store, but you can ask I guess.
My main concern here is the fact that you're helping to supplement your mothers income with your own money. You do know that that's called enabling right?
I mean WTH are you thinking? If she spends all her money on the lotto and has no money left to buy food or pay her bills, well...that's on her not you.
I find it interesting that you feel the need to continue to bail her out. You do know that she'll never change as long as you continue to do that, at least I hope you do.
Let her suffer the consequences of her poor choices. It will only be then that things may turn around. But as long as you're there to pick up the pieces, things will never change.
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Debbio Apr 2023
Coming from the other side of this issue (as a 60 yr. old woman who is oftentimes financially irresponsible, I'm ashamed to share), this is tough but much appreciated feedback. Thank you.
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Your mom needs good testing by a neuro-psych and evaluation as to whether, given what she is currently doing, she is competent to handle her own money. I understand you have already made "arrangements " to block her access to her account and SS??? I cannot imagine how you did that, but that's neither here nor there.

Are you the POA? If not it may be too late for Mom to confer that upon you. You may require guardianship to manage mom's finances if she is judged incompetent. I will tell you that doing this for an uncooperative senior can be a nightmare; it's hard enough when dealing with an organized and willing senior.

I think that you are going to learn a lot with your elder law attorney and hope you will come back HERE and tell us just WHAT you did learn. It would be a huge service to others, because you are not alone in this. I wish you good luck. Either mom is incompetent and needs a financial guardian, or she is not and will lose all her money pretty quickly. Only the laws can help now for her protection. Or not. I am so sorry you are going through this and I wish you the best of luck.
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Debbio Apr 2023
Yes, PLEASE come back after your appointment and share anything you can.
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The only behavior you can control is yours.

Stop providing for her. Let natural consequences occur.
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She has an addiction, the worst thing one can do is enable an addict. Stop supplementing her income, you are part of the problem, shift gears and become part of the solution.

Get it straightened out with attorney, establish boundaries and stick to them, no gambling money, if need be order food for her online, have it delivered.

Best of luck!
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BurntCaregiver Apr 2023
@MeDolly

At her age and she likely has dementia so she isn't going to get recovery from her gambling addiction.
She should be allowed a few lottery tickets a day and a POA has to be in charge of appropriating her funds.
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Please do the lawyer as you said. This is the hardest thing to do but it works believe me. WHAT IF YOU WEREN'T THERE? STOP ENABLING HER.

Prayers
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I read your profile. So you're the oldest daughter and live closest to your mother. You state you take care of her. What else are you doing besides supplementing her money every month? You also state that you work full time. What's going to happen when she needs more help?

Are your siblings also supplementing her SS income, or is it just you?

Why are you enabling her?

(And I don't think it's any shop owner's responsibility to rein in your mother's spending.)
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Even if the store agrees to work with you, there are always other places that sell the lotto tickets or she may find someone hanging around to buy them for her... which opens her up for big time scamming. I agree with others, this is probably not the best way to handle this.
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Sheila, your mother requires memory care in a facility as she can no longer manage her financial affairs. And, please stop giving her money. All of her income will go for her care and will go to Medicaud eligibility when Her Funds Run Out, Not Yours. You keep your job and use your own money to pay only your expenses, saving disposable income for Your Own Care someday. It is very expensive to pay for someone else to care for you someday. Enjoy your life to the fullest until you cannot anymore.
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BurntCaregiver Apr 2023
@Patathome

Not being able to manage entirely independent anymore does not mean a person is ready for memory care.
It often means they're ready for homecare and someone to manage their finances and big decisions.
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Please stop supplementing her income. She is wasting 700 a week on the lottery and you are giving her money. Absolutely ridiculous.

If you give her spending money from her own funds give her 5.00 a day to waste on the lottery. It's not up to you to buy her groceries etc when she is spending her money on crap.

And I am still sick of these selfish old people who do crap like this.
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dkiely33 Apr 2023
She's not a selfish person - she is in cognitive decline.

What is wrong
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Save the cat!!
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Sounds like she is ready for Memory Care and maybe the Medicaid application needs to be submitted to see what funds they will confiscate upon acceptance.

Stop the candy man and discuss what type of information you will submit to the Elder Abuse Council (Office for the Aging) if the scam continues: https://aging.ny.gov/programs/elder-abuse

If she switches stores, have all her money redirected to her SS account and don't give her a debit card..............instead tell her you'll give her $20 per week allowance for being a good girl.
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ZippyZee Apr 2023
Selling a person lottery tickets is not elder abuse or a scam lol. They'd probably get in more trouble for refusing service. It's not their job to know if a person has cognitive decline. What do you expect them to say? "Sorry Ma'am, but you look old and demented, we're not selling you anything"?

Get real
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The store is not going to do that for you. Do you think their employees care?? This is your job to deal with - stop passing it off on other people.
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The store does not have to stop selling her lottery tickets. If she is over the legal gambling age in the state she lives in then she can get as many lottery tickets as she can pay for.
Package stores don't restrict an alcoholic from coming in and buying as much booze as he can pay for.
Convenience stores and gas stations don't refuse to sell cigarettes to a smoker because they have smoking-related illnesses.
Restaurants don't prohibit mobidly obese people from buying their food.
Businesses are in business to make money. It's not the store owner's job to stop some old fool from gambling away their rent money. This is the job of a POA or a conservator.
Your mother very likely has dementia. You did well to start having her SS deposited into an account that she cannot access. Your mother should have nowhere near $100 a day spending money unless she is a millionaire.
Please, whatever you do DO NOT give her a cent of your money to supplement her gambling addiction. That's ridiculous, and if you are giving her money you are her enabler.
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"...is there something legally I can do to stop him from taking her money? My mother is 85 years old."

Sheila - you are asking how to control someone else's behavior. The only person whose behavior you can change is yours.

You would be wise to follow the suggestions given by the posters here.
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There is nothing you can do to stop the store owner carrying on his legitimate business. But that doesn't mean he won't agree that encouraging your mother to moderate her play would be a noble thing on his part. Ask him. How can it hurt?

Mind you. If your mother invents excuses to you and wriggles out of any suggestion that she is spending her money and more on gambling (which is, by the way, a serious addiction), why would she accept advice from the store owner? Don't expect heroic miracles of him.
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Memory Care will provide a lock down environment.
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Trust us, we are here to support you. You seem to need a little 2x4 therapy and we are lovingly willing to give it to you.Get on it about with that lawyer and start redirecting the Social Security like yesterday. And definitely stop giving her any money whatsoever. You gotta take control girl. She can complain all she wants you gotta do the right thing. We will be here to support you all the way.
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My friend’s mom loves the slots at the casino. Her mother was married to a gambler who lost two houses to gambling which is insane!

He didn’t think twice about spending every cent that he had at the black jack table. After he died, she continued to gamble because as Burnt said, some people become addicted to gambling.

My friend is POA for her mom and set up two accounts with her mother’s money.

Her mother only has access to a limited amount of money. My friend will not be an enabler to her mother’s gambling addiction.

She has never given her mom any additional money because she knows that if she did her mother would run to the casino with it. My friend calls slot machines the crack cocaine of gambling.

Her mom complains but fortunately my friend allows her complaints to go in one ear and out of the other one.

I wouldn’t even bother speaking to the store about not selling her the tickets because it isn’t their responsibility to watch over other people’s spending habits.

Store owners are there to run their business. I doubt that they would be interested in being in the position of saying no to a sale and monitoring how people spend their money.

Stop giving your mom additional money. See an attorney if you want to. Only give her a certain amount of money for necessary purchases or buy needed items online for her.
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You can always ask the store, however, even if they complied, your Mom will find another store.

I'm sorry, I'm no help.

However, as someone pointed out. If her memory is bad enough for placement into a MC ward, she would NOT have the freedom to leave the ward to buy lotto tickets. However, she could use the time in MC to purchase goods on-line....which has its own set of issues....
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Talk it over with Mom. What's behind her overspending? Bored? Wants something to do? Lonely? Enjoys going out?

Are there other ways for her to meet these needs?

Has she lost sense of the dollar value? Become impulsive & addicted?

Finding out the reasons for her overspending & gambling may be useful, but as a protective measure right now, restricting harm will be a good start.

So chat to Mom..
Dissues how impulsive behaviour of spending all your money on 'fun stuff' on pay-day means there is nothing left for 'boring stuff' like bills & rent.

Discuss how spending too much has consequences.

Eg Electricity bill not paid?
Lights will go out.

See if she is willing to make new arrangements? To manage her money in a more responsible way.

Is there a POA already in place? If so it may be time to use it. POA takes over managing the bills, the big stuff & Mom gets a SMALL allowance to spend - on whatever.

Then she will still have some freedom but her bills gets paid.

Also, my part of the new arrangement would be to advice MY new rules;
1. You overspend - I do not lend. You go without.
2. If you cannot look after or feed your cat - I will take the cat away. No second chance.
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TouchMatters Apr 2023
I don't believe that logic of 'talking to her' will change anything.
I believe it has to do with her brain chemistry.
Dementia and logic do not work together.
It is, as you ask, a matter of who has the POA and who can legally make financial decisions on behalf of the mother, who cannot take care of her own health and welfare.
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sheila528: Your mother has developed what is sometimes known as a 'stubborn habit' that is quite difficult to break. For some individuals gambling via lotto tickets or brick and mortar casinos, so sure are they that with the next 'quarter slot machine pull' that they will become wealthy that they cannot stop this addiction. A friend lost his house like this. Sad thing was that even though he did hit big at Atlantic City, NJ on a progressive slot machine (one million 9 thousand dollars), he had an addictive personality and spent it all on foolish pleasures. In a gambler's world, limits don't exist.

If you were to ask this shop owner to halt your mother's purchases, that would mean that you are cutting into the man's revenue. Your mother needs help to curtail this stubborn habit. Discontinue enabling her habit.
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TouchMatters Apr 2023
Stubborn habit - never heard of that.
It sounds like dementia to me.
Mother needs a MD diagnosis.

It really has nothing to do with the store owner (from my perspective).

The issue is how this woman gets the money to be spending it on gaming / gambling as she is. If she doesn't have it, she can't spend / waste it.
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No, you can't make a retailer stop selling something to an adult. It's not his problem to deal with arguing with your mom about not purchasing something he sells or to help her stop spending money. And if he doesn't sell, don't think she won't find someone who will.

She is going to have to be put on a very strict budget. All bills paid first including groceries and pet foods...everything she needs each month. I would put some in to emergency fund too. After all the bills are paid, dole out the remainder to spend how she chooses to spend it, I guess. Divide up leftover by days in the month and that's how she gets it so she doesn't burn through on day one.

If there's a chance she's going to need memory care or assisted living, does she have enough income to pay for facility care? If she really doesn't remember spending the money each day, that you give her money every month, etc the elder atty may be able to help you with guardianship so you can just take all the finances over before she breaks the bank.
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Sheila, the long and the short of it is your mother shouldn't be living alone any longer. She shouldn't be managing her own funds.

I see you are in NYC, yes? Call 311 and find out what Agency is assigned to assist with elder affairs in mom's area. It may be Catholic Charities or Jewish Board of Famiky Services. It doesn't matter what religion you are--they have social workers who can help you with this.

Mom needs case management and a needs assessment. Start there.
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It's hard to here good advice from strangers,but a lot of things that were said is true.It would be wise to get her tested for dementia.Then get the documentation to prove that she is unable to handle her finances,and make notes of other behaviors.These are the things you need to get guardianship.She may be able to fool some people ,but it won't be for long.Get your head in the game and get control before you're the one in the hospital for stress,and she'll still be buying tickets at the corner store.
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