Mom and MIL both live with us. Tips for coping as it won't be changing?

Please read any of the boundary books by Townsend and Cloud about "boundaries" with your spouse. Together list the problem behaviors of each lady that need to be dealt with. Together use the steps in their books to develop a plan (and maybe each of you need your own plan as well) to deal with each lady's problem behaviors. Since you have a full house, it might be wisest for you and your spouse to commit weekly counselling to help devise and implement your plan(s). While coming up with behavior plans, implement some house rules - like individual's rooms are off limits to others, quiet hours, meal times, and the like. Post the house rules in prominent places as reminders to everybody.

Hi notthemomma - BRAVO!! We are giving you a virtual standing ovation!!! You've got to be feeling great!

You handled the meeting like a true CEO of your company!! And if "the mothers" don't want to be fired, they'd better follow your lead!

...btw, your mother's deflection about your manicure was very funny!

NTM, Well Done!

It was great to read how well it went over. Now, the consistency from you and hubby to prove that what was said, was meant and these are the rules ladies.

Again, WELL DONE BETA! From another BETA and happy to be so.

FIRST... thanks to all who supported and provided answers and laughs in the 2 weeks it took for me to calm down enough to grab this beast by the horns! Last night's conversation went very well given that I did most of the talking. I did not give ultimatum's but DID give firm, non-negotiable rules according to the list I previously shared. Starting and ending with the simple fact "this is our home but this is my house. I want everyone to be happy and that has to include me. We need to reach this agreement while you are still both ambulatory and capable because if we do not, you will be hastening your transfer to a care facility when you become non-ambulatory and dependent if you continue to ignore these boundaries and challenge me. And he supports me 100% in this. He and I are a team and we are in agreement on this." I gave a simple but firm explanation of what I consider privacy and stated it's how it will be from now on. House rules were laid down and they were told these are absolute. They had a chance to speak and ask questions and negotiate minor things. I just tried to keep in mind that my personal health was also at stake and these things were affecting it. Nobody got butthurt or pouty and nobody got angry. I kept it calm, quiet and dignified. And I accepted no deflection (for example, when my mother tried to criticize my manicure because my nails are kept short - yes, that really happened) and tried to focus on the goal. Oh and yes, I did address the Rosephia...called bullshitt bullshit and left it at that.

I suppose the coming weeks will tell if they heard or received anything I had to say. Again, appreciate all the ideas and tips and thoughts! As for the naysayers, I am not Sandra Bullock and this is not the Ya-Ya Sisterhood. Never did like that BS. Additionally, one of the most freeing and valid statements I ever heard and I intend to fully digest and practice is "My grown adult children owe me nothing" - Fact right there. They do not. I will live homeless in a tent on the street before I would do this to any of them.

Appreciate Y'all and look forward to peace on the mountain!

Let us know how it goes.

This is a great idea for a comedy movie, both mothers? I guess the best way to handle it is to look at it from a different perspective. They are both able bodied women, so your not stuck caring for them. They probably both clean and straighten up the house, so your work load is significantly lightened. The two of them should become either friends or enemies, better off if they are friends. How about getting them involved in finding dates, dating social media, or just going out together to a restaurant once a week. Get involved in joining a bowling team, or something that gets them out of the house and involved in their own social lives, that will keep them busy and out of your business. Do they go on the internet, if so they can interact with people their ages on social media, just google a question about how to meet people their ages on the internet. This may lead to social gatherings, meeting places and people and other activities for them. By the way having older women around is far better than having younger women around. Think about the fact that in the near future, you too will be what you call an 'Old Woman' soon, as both of your kids are grown up. But having older people around doesn't make you look old, if anything it makes you look younger. In a way I envy you, I'd give anything to have my mother alive and with me again. To have two wise women to get advice, information, bounce ideas off of, ask questions to, and listen to them, you may learn something. These women have been where you are, where you have been, and where you will go in the future, they have information you can tap into that you can use, or discard, but it's there for you to access any time you need to. Younger people are so sure that older people just popped up out of the ground and have no idea about life today, hate to tell you but older people have been children, pre-teens, teenagers, had families, had sex and if the women you are living with are about the age I think they are, they lived through the WoodStock era, the greatest music to ever be made was what they grew up listening to and if you get them to open up and let you into their pasts, I'll bet you would be surprised about the lives they led, and the things they did. It could make you look boring, and your life will seem like it hasn't even begun yet, compared to what they have experienced. Anyway, if you can't get them interested in getting back into life, you can always try joining a bowling team and get yourself out of the house, so you don't have to worry about who's in the bathroom, and where you are going to park your car. Good Luck, and have a good day

Alright you all - For the nth time here (with a smile) my problem is NOT my marriage - My husband is a wonderful man who actually loves me (unlike my first one who loved every other woman in the world) So let's drop all of that -We spent almost 3 hours Sunday discussing this and what were the important items to address - He is in agreement with me on the largest portions (Nope, I had no idea because my dumb ass was just keeping silent) and also had some smaller items to contribute to the chat I will be having! - Additionally, the agreement was reached between he and I that "there can only be 1 Queen" and it's me, so this must initially come from me and he will back me up when it gets challenged (and you know it will)

Conversation is tonight - Unless one of them manages to escape, it will all be laid out on the table and managed - I have pinpointed a few items that are what I feel (ME, not you) are hard boundaries.

1. It shouldn't have to take him to say it for it to be a thing. We are a team, he and I, so if it comes out of my mouth, he and I have ALREADY discussed it and it IS a thing. There is only 1 queen bee and it is me.
2. We will tell you exactly what WE think you need to know about our life. Butt out and stop with the nosey questions. If you didn't live here, that would be the case. Mind your business. Period. THAT is what WE consider privacy.
3. We are GOING to re purpose the craft/junk/crap room into a seating area that you both can use and the FR/LR is OURS. Leave our stuff alone.
4. You will BOTH make dinner or provide dinner 1x a week every week. No excuses. And when there is food on the table, SERVE it! Do not wait for us to come serve it.
5. There are a few rules about the house that will be absolute and non-negotiable... they all fall under number 5.

Thanks for the support and I'll let you know!!!

Tooo many hens in that house! There is no way I would allow my mom and MIL to move in with us. Your husband likes the idea of a harem and obviously doesn't care that you're unhappy with the arrangement. That is the very reason the "Pro-woman movement" you speak of came to exist. Women wanted the right to say, "NO, this is my home too and I don't want our mothers moving in with us...we will lose our privacy and I will be outranked by two old birds who will try to control my home." If you have a husband who doesn't care that you are upset... that doesn't sound like a happy marriage to me. Not only that, but these women are going to continue to age. Does your husband expect you to go into caregiving mode when they can no longer take care of themselves? Are you prepared to run them to appointments, cook for them, bathe them and wait on them hand and foot? This could get a lot worse.

Your options are: you could finds lots of activities to do outside of your home so that you are rarely there. Or you could have a stern/serious conversation with your husband and give him a "it's them or me" ultimatum. Or you could just put up with it and live every day with resentment and anger.

Alcohol

Hi. Similar (not same) situation. MIL living with us; my Mom 700’ away, totally dependent on us for med mgmt; all driving; daily dinner; etc. We put some serious boundaries in place for “our home”. MIL has serious hearing issues, so unless it was family tv time after dinner, we only allowed her to watch tv in her bedroom (super comfy easy chair) during the day. I spent a lot of time hiding out in my bedroom reading, watching tv or whatever to get some peace. At dinner we basically “tuned out” and let the elders talk together. Hard to do because of “the loops”. The Alzheimer’s and Vascular Dementia have progressed. Both now reside outside our home as care needs escalated beyond our capacity. Maybe you can check into getting either or both Medicaid qualified and ultimately they can move?

biggest advice is set boundaries and try to enforce them if Mom & MIL are cognitively capable. Good luck

Why are they living with you? It sounds like your husband invited his mother and then invited yours, and he may be unwilling to change that plan, esp for his own mother. So it may be a family problem matter rather than a money matter.

If your husband has total disragard for your comfort and mental health in this scenario, maybe you need to re-assess why you are in this relationship.

If the mothers cannot be moved out, maybe you need to.

Wow, this is a tough situation. Have you tried a group meeting but with a non family member leading the group as arbitrator. Discuss with your husband then invite the group. Consider assigning jobs (lol, I had a MIL that was a combination of both of yours and a passive Mom that enjoyed I’ll health) Thankful I didn’t have to live with either of them. I did take care of them in their homes.
I wish you luck, the good news is you are a Women and will find a solution. We are strong and never give up. You deserve happiness.
Phyllis

I went on strike! No more doing ANYTHING, My kids were teenagers, so they didn't my need constant attention like my 'elders' did. I laid
on the couch and watched TV. When they were ready to start squabbing about dinner I told them to make what they wanted, then took my husband out to a nice dinner. I washed my clothes, and left theirs for them to get done. After a couple of times, I laid out the rules we live by. If they were going to live in my house, use my hot water, my electricity, my washer they would have to respect MY HOUSE ,and MY RULES. If they didn't want to, I showed them on map where the nearest Motel 6 was. After that, there was no question who the Queen was!

notthemomma22: Perhaps you should get your own apartment to preserve your sanity and health.

OMG!!! I use earplugs when my husbands loudness grates on my nerves. My overloaded nervous system is often hyper- sensitive to him. Also, sometimes he’s just LOUD. My FIL would take out his hearing aids to not hear his naggy wife. Yes, stress from my husband
sent me into menopause early 40’s twenty years ago.
Amazing and serious what high levels of daily stress will do to our precious health. God bless you.

The Loud voices are likely due to hearing loss. See about hearing tests.
Get earphones for their TV programs
There are day centers the ladies would like for activities and friends. Look them up.
Give each one a project like gardening or recycling.
Charge rent for your parking space.
Go to the gym everyday and forget about them.
Learn how to play Bridge. You might be 4 players on a cold winter's eve
Consider yourself lucky if you have privacy in your bedroom.
Make some goals with your man like a five year plan for home improvement and work on a scrapbook.
Help to keep that good provider man healthy.
Put a name tag on your favorite chair.
Have a wall space for a calendar of appointments and important info.
Do Church work on Saturday.
Remember you will outlive them. And someday you may need what you are giving now.

So, what do you think awaits you in the future? Which old lady will you be? Perhaps you're ready to move or go on a spiritual journey of "Eat, Pray, Love" that will bring you clarity?

I feel so sorry for you. I always say from personal experience that the biggest mistake is allowing them to move in. Once they are in, it is nearly impossible to move them out alive.

I made the mistake of moving in with my mother and later buying a house large enough for the both of us to live together. I had no idea, after living away for many years, that she is bipolar on top of all the other physical and mental challenges of an old person. She was doing okay on medication, but she stopped taking it and is back to her old ways of cursing and insulting me.

If I could do it all over again, I would not have had her guilt me into living with her. If you live with them, you have to set hard rules from the very start. There are no tips or cure to their behavior. These are old people set in their ways who think they can do anything they want because they are your parents, and you will just have to put up with it.

You and your husband need to devise a plan to move them out or sell the house if you have to and downsize to a place for just the both of you. I have no idea how your marriage will survive two mothers living under the same roof. One is enough for me! I will never do this again for anyone else's parents after my mother dies.

YES...ABSOLUTELY you've GOT TO GET THEM BOTH OUT! I'm telling you something I've experienced with my second husband If you don't you will go CRAZY!! I am a caregiver and i have some ideas I was reading your story to my daughter who is 59 and I'm 77 I just returned to Colorado Springs in july and we're living together. I try very hard not to do to her what I went through even tho it's just her and I she still needs her space and I give it to her I love being in my room and have everything in here that I need..Sometimes I do small things without her permission like washing dishes, mop the floor, fill up the car with gas, cook, but I never go into her room when she's not home...I want her to enjoy being single and being alive. I ask permission before moving anything I still work part time as a caregiver and she's also a caregiver she doesn't have any children and she helped me care for my mom when she was young we love taking care of others BUT not at the expense of losing our minds YOU need to take care of you! ALSO men have no idea what you're puttin up with they can always just leave or whatever If you need to talk to vent or anything you can private message me. One thing you can always do is take a drive go get some ice cream and sit in the car in a public place during the day.

When u have this talk, don't give the the idea there is a compromise. Its "this is the way it has to be for you to remain under this roof". I would start by saying "I think u two have forgotten whose house this is". Have your list to revert back to.

It is YOUR home.
You need to TAKE control.
State RULES ("house rules") and keep to them.
You are giving all your power away. Why?

If you do not take control of your home, they will. They are.

You can scream - get out your frustration through therapy and exercise.
Do not scream at them. It adds fuel to the already burning fire.

No one is 'conniving and manipulative WITHOUT your agreement.
You are allowing this behavior. Once you realize it is up to you - in your own home - to create your own house rules and stick to them - they will either abide by them or pay the consequences.

You then need to figure out the consequences.
Tell them to leave?
Find alternative housing for them?
Talk to your spouse to get him on the same page as you (yes) - ? or is he already?

Nothing changes until YOU do.

And then if you do not change, the question is why not?
What are you afraid of?
What are your underlying issues / needs / old patterns of behavior 'running you.'

You need to give them the 'tough love' I am giving you.

The bottom line is that you do not want this situation to continue as it is.
If you need to lock (bathroom) doors - your bathroom, do it.

If they are cognitively unable to 'understand' or abide by your direction/rules
- get them to a medical provider to be tested for cognitive functioning
- see if medication is needed
- get caregivers in there to 'help' them abide by / (enforce your rules).

If you do not give them boundaries, they believe (and are) at free will to do as they please - as they are. You're 'kicking and screaming' here won't do any good beyond getting some anger out expressing the powerlessness you feel - in your own home. You need a united voice with your husband and get into therapy, even short term.

Gena / Touch Matters

I am so sorry for the tough situation you find yourself in!! It really is between several rocks/hard places.
You need counseling. ESPECIALLY if your husband will not stand up and be the leader he needs to be - for both older women. He needs to protect you - not brush off your concerns.
It is not their house. Yes, it has become their home but they need to step down from their command position.
I get the LOUD thing. My parents in my home are the same. Put a earbud in one ear and listen to something fun or gentle or an audiobook on YouTube. Mandate they wear hearing aids. If they hear themselves, sometimes it turns down the volume.
You didn't say if you were still working. Volunteer/work outside the home. Sounds like they can still drive so they don't need attention - find your "quiet time" away from the house.
And give everyone a break. It sounds like everyone is adjusting to the new normal. We watched Golden Girls and thought how awesomely they got along - but that is either not real life or they have learned to adjust. It must be pretty hard on the old gals having nothing of their own - they are fighting for their place here and it is not easy to give way. They don't know where they fit, either.
How are the finances? Are All contributing to the finances? Both moms? Your son? Money really helps a LOT to ease the strain. If they are paying for it, you can relax and say that they "bought" what they are using. If not, it may be time to have that money talk. They can contribute - even if it is just enough for your attitude to ease. And don't think your son is not adding to this - he may not be an older woman- but he is a warm body!! That has to add some stress to the situation.
Lastly, be good to yourself. Find your quiet place in your home. Even if it is a closet. God can meet you there and give you the love and patience you need at this time. Or just a nap.

It's your house; the elder women are housemates but apparently their concept of 'extended family' means they have priority, 'ranking' due to age. No. They must adapt to your way within your home, and your husband must back you up. Perhaps there are some cultural attitudes at work here, but no one gets to ride roughshod over the entire household. A true 'feminist' would understand and support cooperation. Maybe a good start would be Family Meetings, attendance required, on a regular basis. Engage a social worker/mediator if necessary to set the format.

I would put them both in a Board & Care and wipe your hands of this hellish environment. Or move yourself and let them have at each other.

OR - get a cheap trailer and stick them in it together.

I wish I had a better answer. But therapy and being out of the house as much as possible. We moved my mil in and had a very healthy marriage- together 33 years and Ive considered divorce . She pays whatever she feels like and does whatever she wants and she defies any and all doctors orders- my husband thinks im a knit picker and maybe I am at this point. But he’s so blind he doesn’t even see how she manipulates him- and im thoroughly disgusted by it . My sister and brother in laws don’t talk to her for this reason and I always thought they were mean. I get it now

There is a saying " there is no house large enough for two women.". I agree with that saying. Perhaps you will glean some self affirmation by pondering on this saying and, perhaps journaling about it as it reflects on your current ' real life' situation. No matter how large the house is, it is never large enough for two women, much less three !
To restore some sanity and preserve your mental health ( which of course affects ones physical health) some sort of formal intervention with the support of a professional needs to happen. Why not start with speaking with the PCP for each " too loud" aging women and, share the in home situation and request that a geriatric case mgr who is usually a licensed social worker be assigned to help you and the family look at realistic options to continue living under one roof. Aging relatives can become very beligerant, angry, selfish, controlling, demanding and, if their cognitive abilities are such that they can comprehend a conversation and retain the information, then they should be a part of the meetings. Be sure that each of the mothers has a current level of care needs assessment from their PCP , as this may reveal any forms of dementia that may be contributing to behaviors.
Insist that rules and boundaries be set and respected . Having a professional on board with you to assist with this establishment of rules regs and boundaries and maintaining them will help you greatly.
Also get 1:1 emotional, spiritual support for yourself to facilitate your own self care needs.
Since your home is basically operating as a senior aging in place facility for the two mothers, getting in home support help with them started now will be vital to everyone surviving including your marriage and your health. Be sure also that you have POA documents and all other legal paperwork in place for each of them for decision making
purposes for them if and when they are deemed incompetent.
You would most likely benefit greatly from conferring with an Elder Law Attorney for your own information and guidance regarding the situation you are in.

I was glad to read that you 'work full time', that means you have a life away from the chaos and stress of your large home. Don't ever quit that job! Some of the 'meal delivery' services deliver to the home with the ingredients ALREADY in the boxes which only need slight preparation (like chop up green onions, etc.) before putting all together, and, Voila! A meal in an hour, that no one had to shop for ingredients and most of the work already done. Thinking outside the box, having these meals that require slight preparation delivered to your home 3-4 times per week could be a lifesaver. Your mother and MIL could alternate weeks as being the Preparer of the delivered Meal Kits for the family. I am serious about this, these services are expensive but the meals are delicious and healthful! Your mother is existing as a fun volunteer outside the home, then has a meal on the table put before her. I guess I didn't add the part where the MIL and Mother get to pay for the "Fresh Meal" delivery on alternate weeks. As others have mentioned, Grown Son gets a deadline for moving out (end of Sept or Oct?) and living a real adult life. You are enabling his lack of emotional growth, and this can be crippling for him. Also: Please get a Therapist for yourself! This will be someone who can give sage advice and listen to you, and it will be invaluable...

That sounds sooooo hard!!! So many people to navigate. If there were just one change you could make with the living arrangement, what would it be? Maybe start there, then build on it. I don’t have nearly the same level of chaos, but I started the boundary setting with a few things with my mom. That worked and then we built on it. Many of the things that bothered me before, don’t bother me anymore, because I got what I needed on other things. Good luck!

They're living their life the way they want, without being "confined" in a facility. Good for them

I would not be able to tolerate all of that ongoing confusion & noise. Sit them down & tell they need to make some changes -without complaining - or other arrangements will have to be made for them. Stand your ground, because setting limits & reinforcing them are your only way out. You deserve a life. So do they, but not at the expense of your health & sanity. Good luck!